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Ford Escape Hybrid

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Comments

  • It's not inefficient. The brake controller tells the PCM that the amount of braking torque being requested and this cancels the creep torque, and you were none the wiser. Aren't those guys tricky.
  • cdoldcdold Posts: 34
    "I would have to purchase a sat module to get the SAT button to work ... fm modulator."

     

    The Owners guide mentions "Sirius Satellite Radio." All of the references on the web are to Sirius. That makes me think that a Sirius installation would be integrated, and that XM is tacked on like it would be in any car.

    Do you have any SAT control with the original head unit? Do Satellite text messages apear on the head unit display? Does the SAT button do anything, or do you have to tune to some FM frequency?

     

    I agree that the FM modulator is poo. I had one for my Honda, and then bought a CD-changer adapter from LogJamElectronics.com. I don't ahve control of my MP3 player, but I do have excellent sound. If you just want "SAT", I think you should have Sirius to integrate into a Ford. If you want XM, I would suggest a Logjam adapter.
  • stevewastevewa Posts: 203
    Visteon (maker of radios for Ford) offers a direct-connect module for Sirius on _selected_ head units. The ones that work with the module are the ones featuring a "SAT" button. They offer integrated control and use of the display readout. Some dealers don't know about the Visteon module and will just refer the hapless owner to an aftermarket shop that slaps in a universal FM-modulator based solution. It's less costly, but you lose audio quality as well as integration with the factory head unit.
  • I must say I was a little disappointed in the overall turnout last Saturday at the LA Area Hybrid Challenge. Of course, those that know me understand that disappointment only stokes my fires and I immediately redouble the effort. Those that were there learned and enjoyed. We are going back on March 26th and this time push Prius a bit more. At first, I was sure I had won the prize (if there was one) for highest mileage on the two courses with my 47 MPG in the Park and 38 around Burbank. Paul's 2004 Prius demolished that with his 73.8 and 74.5. As far as I know this was the first head-to-head between a 4WD FEH and a Prius under exact conditions on a closed course. Good comparison. Today I received an email from Lawrence Long of Colonial Honda in Glendale asking if we had any HCH challengers. He expressed an interest in the event. I am impressed by their customer relations. I have passed on my desire to Ford that they might also officially take part next time. If anyone from Edmunds.Com might want to stop by we would be happy to be good hosts. I understand that many of you are at other places in the continent but that does not mean you cannot help seed a local grassroots effort to start your own challenge. This type of challenge in no way pits Prius Owners against Insight Owners against Hybrid Escape Owners against Honda Civic Hybrid Owners. I found it actually brings us closer together. I give of my real name and information and I assure you no bad guys showed up in that park in Los Angeles; only new friends with like interests. Mike
  • I agree that Ford (and others) mostly tout the great things about their products and leave out the negatives. Does your soap really make you feel like you are in a rain forest? Will your new stove-oven really cook your meals automatically?

     

    Worse, the reviews we read are mostly written by people who see the car, or more rarely drive the car, for a short time and do not get a real feel for the positives and negatives of the product. Some reviewers even get payolla from the manufacturer so they have a vested interest to sell us.

     

    The best reviews are from forums like this where us regular people can discuss things without being owned or closely-held. Unfortunately, many of us like to live on the edge and buy before the free product forums can be established.

     

    The way I look at it is to ask myself the following:

     

    Maybe the car does not live up to the ads but is it better than what I had and was it worth the extra I paid for it, taking into account the feeling of superiority of being a pioneer.

     

    I love my car. Maybe my wife, over time, was not as advertised during our dates but I have grown to love her positives and worry less about the negatives.

     

    If someone buys and is not satisfied I say sell it and take the loss as a lesson to be learned. If someone buys and it is really a lemon (which I do not feel the H-Escape is) go after the dealer or the manufacturer.

     

    Ford does not have to try to over-sell this car. It fits a need if only the needy are given the true facts.

     

    Mike
  • Original Message:

     

    "Hi Toycash:

      

    ___Look up the 2004 Toyota Sequoia 2WD or 4WD over at the EPA’s fuel economy site: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm. Both receive a big ** 0 ** on their emissions scores. There isn’t a Ford or GM that scores this bad!

      

    ___It looks like the just listed 2005’s finally cleaned up there act. Have you seen any 2005 Sequoia’s around your locale recently or are they all the older ones?

      

    ___Good Luck

     

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes"

     

    I think you need the luck! I happened to see this post, I double checked and found that you're incorrect, not only that but they don't rate all Ford or GM's (no Hummer to found)!

     

    You're correct about the 2004 Sequoia shame on Toyota, but go back and double check and you will see that both the 2004 Ford Expedition 4WD(an abomination IMO) and the 2004 Ford F-150 4WD get ratings of a 0/1 for EPA Pollution and the Expedition produces 12.8 tons of greenhouse gas and the F-150 is even worse at 13.8 tons!

     

    Oh also the 2005 Expedition did not improve nearly as much as the Sequoia and the F-150 it depends on the model.

     

    D
  • As I stated in another forum:

     

    "I am a big advocate of hybrid technology and Honda and Toyota are the leaders. Forget Ford, they only made one to make them look more environment friendly, which it did not do. Every gas guzzler they make negates the Escape hybrid many times over."

     

    Ford loyalists may not want to hear it or even care, but this is reality. The Escape Hybrid is nothing but public relations BS!

     

    And then there is Nissan who is a bit behind everyone else. I don't think they thought it was the way to go, they were so wrong! Of course they begged Toyota to use their technology. I hope Toyota charges them big time for it.

     

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- _id=9103

     

    D
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428
    Actually Ford was selling gas-guzzlers for a long time. But since 2000 after seeing the higher gas prices biting their customers, they are moving into Hybrids. Now they are getting more active by launching Mercury Mariner Hybrid 1 year ahead of schedule. Their best selling Explorer, Expedition, Excursion are losing steam.

     

    So they are banking on hybrids. Better late than never and we should appreciate Ford for this.
  • gregagrega Posts: 31
    Is this a total [non-permissible content removed] fan or what! If Toyota or Honda does hybrid, it's GREAT! But if Ford does it, after just getting their financial act together, its only for PR... Gag me and go get a life!!!

     

    Its called playing the market smart and letting others (Honda & Toyota) take the financial risk. Look at how POORLY the Honda Insight sells, with over 300-day supply. With those results, I wouldn't be in any hurry to jump into the Hybrid market, hence Hissan's position.

     

    Plus, these things lose money big time. The small $3K - $5K mark-up does NOT cover the cost, so its smart to jump-in ONLY if the market develops, which it has. This technology will take another 3-5 years before it is economical and makes money for the car companies, especially with other alternatives like Diesel, displacement-on-demand and Hydrogen costing hundreds of $$ Millions to develop.

     

    Ford puts a grass roof on its retooled plant in Detroit to save heating/cooling costs and has patents for recycling spent pain fumes in its body shops to beat EPA regs... just PR, I don't think so!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    Look at how POORLY the Honda Insight sells

     

    I don't think it is just the Insight. My dealer has an HAH on the lot he can't sell with a big markup. And when I asked about the HCH he told me they only do special orders because of the high price & limited appeal. Toyota only has one hybrid they are using for PR to the max. They have displayed and promised the RX400h for over a year now. Maybe it will make it to the dealers a year after the original promised date was broken.

    If any company is using the hybrid to soothe the guilty conscience it is Toyota with two of the worst polluters on the planet in their lineup.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    larsb,

     your email was a great idea! the reply is great too! it's ok to make mistakes, but admit them, fix them, and move on.

    here is a link to carb re pzev vehicles:

     

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2004sulevpzevlist.htm

     

    the 'AT' in at-pzev means 'alternative technology'.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Cbr600rr:

     

          Not only did you pull a post from 11/04, you must have missed the fact that the EPA has redone their emissions lists within the last 3 weeks? Or possibly you didn’t know?

     

    “Look up the 2004 Toyota Sequoia 2WD or 4WD over at the EPA’s fuel economy site: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm. Both receive a big ** 0 ** on their emissions scores. There isn’t a Ford or GM that scores this bad!

     

          That is exactly what was shown in the EPA lists last year. Again, you failed to notice.

     

          As for the H2, it isn’t a passenger sized vehicle (GVWR) and fell outside of the EPA’s tested/published range IIRC.

     

          In regards to the Ford Escape Hybrid, it is serving its purpose quite well for Ford today and as with any new technology, it is surpassed in the next generation of hybrid vehicles Ford will be offering in the not-to-distant future ;-)

     

          As for your recall statement below, my Honda Insight and the Prius I and II have had more recalls then the Ford Escape HEV. I don’t know if the HCH has had any. How good is Honda’s and Toyota’s HEV’s vs. Ford’s again? They are all pretty darn good hybrid automobiles so please dispense with your assumptions at our earliest convenience.

     

          Good Luck

     

          Wayne R. Gerdes
  • Quote from grega - "Is this a total [non-permissible content removed] fan or what! If Toyota or Honda does hybrid, it's GREAT! But if Ford does it, after just getting their financial act together, its only for PR... Gag me and go get a life!!!"

      

    Its called playing the market smart and letting others (Honda & Toyota) take the financial risk. Look at how POORLY the Honda Insight sells, with over 300-day supply. With those results, I wouldn't be in any hurry to jump into the Hybrid market, hence Hissan's position."

     

    Sorry, I should have also mentioned that Ford does realize they can capitalize on the hybrid market so that's another motivator. It's obvious by your "[non-permissible content removed]" comment that you're one of those crazed foreign hating types. Reading your bio helped me comfirm this. I won't waste anymore keystrokes on you.

     

    As for the Insight, it was the first mass produced hybrid so what do expect, it's old news. Honda probably keeps it around to prove it was first! Catch a clue!!!!! The Civic and Accord hybrid's are much more important now. I don't follow Toyota as closely, but the Prius was a good start and of course you fail to mention the Highlander hybrid which should be out by mid 2005. Toyota takes more time getting the vehicle to market, but better than putting out a vehicle that will be plagued with recalls, which we all know Ford is great at doing!

     

    D
  • Quote from Wayne R. Gerdes

     

    "Not only did you pull a post from 11/04, you must have missed the fact that the EPA has redone their emissions lists within the last 3 weeks? Or possibly you didn’t know?"

     

    I pulled the data last night, so it must be the updated version. Oh, I see now, I was comparing that new model Sequoia (2005) which has improved its ratings. Can't say as much for the 2004 Expedition.

     

    The data I am seeing now shows the 2004 Expedition as 0/1 EPA, same as the 2004 Sequoia.

    Also this data was from fueleconomy.gov, it appears the data is a bit different than the data listed directly on the EPA's site (like you said it was updated). Still easy enough to locate a Ford rated "0", the 2004/2005 Excursion, but they don't have a rating for greenhouse gas (probably because on a 1 to 10 scale it would be -10!).

     

    On the EPA's site the 2005 Sequoia is rated as one of best under "largest SUV's" though the Land Cruiser is not improved, they must be ready to dump that model.

     

    D
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Cbr600rr:

     

          I am actually having a tough time figuring out what you are saying but the old emissions ratings had the 04 Sequoia at 0 of 10 whereas the 04 Expedition had a 2/3 of 10 rating IIRC. This is by memory so forgive me if I am a off by 1 or so points on the Expedition. In other words, 3 months ago the 04 Sequoia was rated as a belching mess vs. the 04 Expedition’s just poor rating. You can make what you want of the 2 scores today being equivalent. 05 was a turning point as has already been posted more then once in the Edmunds forums previously in regards to the Sequoia.

     

          As for CO2 based GHG emissions, take the fuel economy of whatever your target vehicle is of xx mpg, record its reciprocal, and multiply that number by 19. This will give you an ~ GHG emissions in #’s/mile at the exhaust pipe. If you want to go further, take the total gallons consumed of the target automobile over a given distance * 19 and add ~ 9 #’s * total gallons consumed of the target automobile over this same given distance to account for the extraction, refining, and transport of the gasoline to the station just before it’s pumped into your car. This is the ~ total #’s of CO2 the target automobile in question has emitted over that given distance. How this relates to your - 10 score for an Excursion given there are no EPA estimates that I know of for one is beyond me?

     

          Good Luck

     

          Wayne R. Gerdes
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428
    "Toyota only has one hybrid they are using for PR to the max"

     

    During 2000 & 2001, the critics said that there are only 2 hybrid models available

    Toyota-Prius

    Honda-Insight

     

    Now in 2005, they are saying that Toyota and Ford are selling only 1 model each, when there are 7 models totally

    Toyota-Prius

    Ford-Escape

    Honda-Accord

    Honda-Civic

    Honda-Insight

    Chevy-Silverado

    GMC-Sierra.

     

    At the end of this year, there will be 3 more

    Lexus-RX400h

    Toyota-Highlander

    Mercury-Mariner.

     

    So next year, they will say that Nissan has only 1 model. This sort of criticism will not last long. At some point, hybrids will be offered in all models.
  • tempusvntempusvn Posts: 119
    Toyota only has one hybrid, in the US market.

     

    They are selling other models as hybrids in Japan and have been for some time.

     

    http://www.sae.org/automag/toptech/12-2002/

     

    Estima:

     

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20030730b

     

    Of course the Estima is known in the US as the Sienna

     

    http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-sienna-minivan-hybrid.html

     

    The Alphard:

     

    http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/August-2003/August-2003-- 1/August-06-03-p1.htm

     

    The Crown (Mild) using THS-M, may be going to China:

     

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/faw_toyota_to_p.html

     

    They also have a Transport Bus in Hybrid, the Coaster.

     

    Also, Toyota owns Daihatsu and they have the HiJet Commercial Minivan in Hybrid trim.

     

    http://www.daihatsu.com/motorshow/tokyo04/hi_ca_h/index.html

     

    http://www.daihatsu.com/motorshow/tokyo02/hijetcargo_h/index.html

     

    Then theres the Atria

     

    http://www.daihatsu.com/motorshow/tokyo01/at_hybrid/index.html

     

    http://www.daihatsu.com/motorshow/indonesia01/atrai/photo.html
  • Quote from Wayne R. Gerdes

     

    "How this relates to your - 10 score for an Excursion given there are no EPA estimates that I know of for one is beyond me?"

     

    It was not meant to be a scientific answer.

     

    I just making the point that the Excursion was the nastiest, most polluting SUV ever created! I say was because it's no longer being made after 2005. You can find plenty of estimates of mpg online if you look. You can dance around the issue all you want. Any person who cares about the environment knows Ford is one of the worst offenders. They may be getting better, but the damage is already done and they need to much more before my opinion changes.

     

    Check out these articles relating to the Excursion and others:

     

    http://www.suv.org/environ.html

     

    "During a drive around a city, the mighty Excursion was only getting 3.7 miles per gallon. It is estimated the Excursion will produce 134 tons of carbon dioxide during its lifetime"

     

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 38112

     

    "Fuel Economy 1 1

    Test V10s averaged 9.6 mpg with 4WD, 10.8 with 2WD, among the lowest figures we've recorded. Gas engines use regular-grade fuel."

     

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/keller9.html

     

    "The SUV's currently under the EPA 20.7 MPG fleet rules are non-commercial vehicles. Those wily capitalists knew the EPA rules about vehicles over 8,500 pounds gross being considered "heavy-duty". The result is the Ford Excursion, weighing in at 8,600 pounds gross. Coincidence? It gets 12 or 13-MPG city, depending on engine, and crushes Japanese economy cars with the greatest of ease. If not for the EPA rules, Ford would have undoubtedly taken some of that expensive and heavy steel out of the Excursion."

     

    And last for a laugh:

     

    http://www.debris.com/journal/943

     

    "Model $/mile $/cupholder

     

    2004 Toyota Prius 3.9¢ $10,405

    2004 Ford Excursion 17.9¢ $6,301"

     

    My work is done here. I am going over to the "real" green side now.

     

    D
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Cbr600rr:

     

    It was not meant to be a scientific answer.

     

          Believe me, it wasn’t even close.

     

    I just making the point that the Excursion was the nastiest, most polluting SUV ever created!

     

          You are mixing up GHG’s and Smog based Emissions like CO, HC’s, PM, and NOx. The Sequoia was far dirtier then the Excursion in the second area. In fact, there were only (4) 04 automobiles (3 were Toyota’s) that scored a 0 and the Excursion wasn’t one of them.

     

          If you want to see what the Sequoia, Expi, and Excursion are like in the real world, start here.

     

          http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/fuel_efficient_car- s_category.html

     

    My work is done here. I am going over to the "real" green side now.

     

          You don’t really want to compare how green you are to most here, do you? If so, I cannot wait for that challenge ;-)

     

          Wayne R. Gerdes
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    only about 20,000 excursions were sold last year.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    bought a new battery for my old stang today. parked next to an escape hybrid. the owner happened to walk up to it as i was leaving, so i bent his ear a bit.

    here is what he had to say(paraphrasing).

    his wife drives it, replacing an escort. she wanted something bigger, but that got about the same mileage(needed more room for grown up kids).

    you have to get used to the way it works. traditional engine rpm/transmission scenario does not apply. basically, from our brief conversation. it seems that when more power is needed, the engine goes to max efficiency, then the cvt adjusts to that, instead of engine changing rpm until a downshift is required.

    he said he just had 3k service done. went on a long trip(800 miles). he calculating by hand, matched the computer at 28 mpg. he emphasized going about 65 mph, and driving through the hills in new york. sounds like a round trip to buffalo from here (central ct).

    he also said he didn't buy it expecting to recoup the price premium from gas savings.
  • Good talk - the best discussion of the Ford HE that I've seen on the net. I've been driving one since Dec. 9 in CA in and around SF. Post #973 is on target. I get a combined mileage in the high 20's. 29 in a town with a lot of hills. About 26 on the hwy but I'm always driving 70-80 MPH. Does anyone expect to get the EPA est. from any car? Regarding performace: Equal to a V6? Sort of. Great acceleration off the line; it's easy to squeal the tires leaving a stop sign. But on the hwy it's close to a V6 but not quite - imagine a 5.5 cylinder? My bottom line: Ford's promise is close enough to "real life" for me. I've got a peppy little SUV with great mileage. And there are things to love; like cruising down a hill and recapturing energy for the drive ahead or going to the corner grocery store with a fuel consumption of 0.0 gals. And finally the Escape platform itself: hybrid or gas it's a well designed, nimble, roomy, fun SUV.
  • Yes, that would be ideal.

    make that idle creep optional man!!
  • See, I'm having a hard time believing this really happens. NO ONE uses 0.0 gallons to the corner store and back - the engine on the FEH idles for the first 5-10 minutes no matter what you do. I could roll down a steep hill for 5 minutes without ever touching the gas pedal and I'd still use gas.

     

    And maybe it's just my FEH, but I'm getting barely more than HALF the city mpg you are, with only one big hill I have to climb back up to my house.

     

    It just doesn't make sense.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,784
    That is exactly what I get in my ICE 2003 Honda CR-V EX.

     

    Of course, I only get 22 in town...
  • My 4 x 4 Escape arrived in Dec. on Long Island. My dealer put a Reese Class III trailer hitch on for me. It was a tight fit and sometimes the muffler bumps into it. I put a piece of heater hose on the offending part of the hitch and it eliminated the noise.

     

    I have a 20' outboard ski boat I take to the beach 5 minutes from me. I'm sure the Escape would overheat on a really long tow. Just to test it I brought the boat down to the ramp and it pulled just fine.

     

    I decide to see what it could really do and I pulled it on to the soft, sandy beach. The tires sank about five inches into the sand and the Escape had no trouble pulling the boat and trailer through 500' of beach by electric only! I had to step on it to get the engine to come on. I was rolling at about 5 mph. I know in reverse only the electric motors operate. So I tried backing up on the sand and I was only able to move about 5 feet before the the gas pedal was flat to the floor and the motors cut out.

     

    Don't drive into anything you can't drive out of. I had the same problem in deep snow. I imagine backing out of a steep ravine would be impossible. Besides that the Escape is one of the best handling 4 x 4s I've driven, especially in the snow!

     

    I'm getting 24mph in suburban driving. I had to learn a light touch on the gas to get it to 30 mph before the gas kicks in. There has got to be other chips available to do delay the engine from coming on. My car has 2600 on it and it sometimes goes out to 35 mph before kicking in even in the cold weather.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    The first 2006 models will be built starting May 7th and the first deliveries (dpending on state and location) will begin the middle of June. Options and price will change.

     

    If a person is still waiting on a 2005 it might be wise to check with the dealer. The pipeline fill ended several weeks ago. To get an order in for a 2006 will require a new order. I don't know yet the first date dealers can take 2006 orders but bigger dealers with good allotments for 2006 (based on 2005 sales) can find a way to get people to the top of the list.

     

    Most of those that are trying to resell their 2005s are selling not because it was a lemon (they mostly say it is a great car) but because they drive short distances over a short time period. The H-Escape requires 3-6 minutes and 5-10 miles before it can achieve good MPG. This is because of the onboard computer requiring the engine and exhaust to get up to the right temperature before allowing for the best possible air/fuel ratio tuning. I hope in the future the right people buy the right car.
  • I agree most heartedly because I did originally write these words quoted by ExplorerX4.

     

    After 5,000 miles this is still the best SUV I have ever owned and I try to live within its capabilities. For the past several thousand miles I get 31-34 MPG for a tank driving 45-55 MPH and taking advantage of terrain. Until Ford makes some changes in the future models an owner driving mainly short distances and short time periods will not get great mileage but the trade-off is that they will produce much less pollution.

     

    Consumers must be educated to understand that the cars they buy and drive must be judged and rated by Utility value, Mileage value, Pollution value, Safety value, and Cost of Satisfaction value. All must be taken into account as a whole. Some people will place higher value on one or more of these variables.

     

    Thanks ExplorerX4 for rebroadcasting my words so I could respond and amplify.

     

    Mike
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    i should have given credit where it is due! i didn't consider it plagerism, since i put quotes around it. :) i thought it was some good info, which can be hard to come by.
  • there are 7 models totally

    Chevy-Silverado

    GMC-Sierra.

     

    .

    Where'd these last 2 models come from? I've never even heard of them!

     

    troy
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