BMW European Delivery

manybmws · January 2008

blueguydotcom has the pricing recipe once you know the "ED invoice".

Also, the term to search Bimmerfest forums or other posts for the pricing you need is not necessarily "ED invoice" but "confidential wholesale price". Modify this search text with "E92" e.g. and "2008" to find specific BMW model pricing. Usually the search for this info is made a little harder because these price lists are typically PDFs whose text does not get indexed by the popular search engines. The forum posts may that refer to these PDFs may in fact say ED invoice.

To be honest most dealers will not negotiate off of ED pricing but a few will. Again search Bimmerfest and other BMW forums for "ED friendly" dealer contact info in your area..

qbrozen · January 2008

ED car does not come out of the dealer's allocation

Although I've read this isn't ALWAYS the case. For instance, on the new 1-series they are, at least initially, coming out of the dealer's allocation, so they most likely will not deal much from ED MSRP.

blueguydotcom · January 2008

6 series, M cars and the 1 (until it fails) will come out of allocations.

dhanley · January 2008

Ah, i stand corrected. So i might have to wait for a deal on a 1-series....

blueguydotcom · January 2008

Give it 12 months and they'll give you one for a song.

circlew · January 2008

Blue, why do you think it will fail?

Regards,
OW

randy0 · January 2008

> 6 series, M cars and the 1 (until it fails) will come out of allocations.

I believe this to be true on the 1 series. In addition, besides dealer allocations, one dealer was telling me that the 1 will be higher than the 3 because you can negotiate a discount the 3, but they are not going to be offering any discounts off MSRP on the 1 (obviously initially, if the car fails in the marketplace, they will do whatever it takes to get rid of them.)

Randy

blueguydotcom · January 2008

The market is too small. The 1 series is extremely overpriced for what most americans will see it as - a baby 3 series. Hardcore drivers on the flipside will see it as too heavy and e9x-like to really be the second coming of the 2002. It's caught in the middle and rather than attempting to feed one side or the other, BMW tried to straddle the line.

So enthusiasts won't get a light, hardcore coupe and the majority of Bimmer buyers won't get a small, decently priced RWD coupe. The typical bimmer buyer will gripe it's too rough and small and the enthusiasts will grumble it's too heavy, soft-handling and bland to be a fun weekend ripper.

FWIW, I saw it in person and really dug it. But I'd prefer a 4 door version and something a good 400-600 lbs lighter.

cdnpinhead · January 2008

Damn straight!

The enthusiast market has been shoved aside to make way for the poseurs for years (decades?), and here we are with the 1. I used to crave a BMW, but with the RFTs, no dipstick (and a level sensor that doesn't work, BTW), elimination of gauges (oil temp) & added weight all over the place, I'm thinking that a purpose-built appliance might make more sense. If I can't get a BMW the way I'd like it (3 with a diesel, dipstick, real tires (& a spare) & gauges), I may as well buy an Acura.

I'm confident many (many) lemmings will continue to end up driving BMWs, at least until the exchange rate (or a shift in the latest thing to have) puts the house of cards where it was always headed.

Time will tell, as always.

qbrozen · January 2008

I'm not sure why you feel the need to insult people.

I still want the 1-series. Is it too heavy? Well, depends on your perspective. What are we comparing it to? Past BMWs? Personally, I don't think that's terribly fair. I mean, if you want an old bimmer, then buy one. They are available. With a bit of care and plenty of maintenance, it should last a while. Our E30 has been good so far.

What it should be compared to is other new cars.

An Acura? Ummm... ok... I wouldn't think a bimmer fan would be willing to give up RWD. I thought that was 1 of the top factors for buying one.(??) If you want FWD, there are many many cars to choose from. I suggest volvo, personally.

But, in reality, let's compare it to comparable vehicles. How novel! So? Shoot. I'm all eyes. I would like to know what else I should consider along with the 1. (i may consider the 3, too, I'll see. but smaller is more appealing to me)

cdnpinhead · January 2008

Well, this is one of those "if the shoe fits" kind of things.

Based on posting history over the years, I highly doubt that you are one of the poseurs to whom I referred. What I'm bitching about is the fact (or the concept, or the notion, whatever) that the people who love the badge now drive the train, NOT the people who love cars that handle well.

The fact remains that BMWs continue to handle well and do many of the things that people who love to go around corners fast care about. Great. However, I'm faced with buying something or other in the next year, and I'm not sure that the BMW deserves the #1 place I've put it in over the past 2-3 years. The damn RFTs alone are enough of a problem (okay, I'll buy a set of real tires & dispose of them), but then there's the oil level thing (what does a dipstick cost, really?).

Now, I'm a confirmed low-power kinda guy, so the 335 isn't what I'm looking for, but for those who are, what's with the oil temperature thing?

It just seems to me that everywhere we look, the car is being aimed at people who care more about things that I don't.

I certainly didn't intend to insult you, though I'm perfectly happy to insult the badge-seeking yuppies who think that their (fill in the blank) will be much larger so long as they're driving a "bimmer."

kyfdx · January 2008

Yuppies don't call them bimmer...

They say, beemer..

That's how you tell them apart....

tidester · January 2008

FYI, Bimmer refers to the car and beamer refers to the motorcycle.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

kyfdx · January 2008

Exactly... the badge hounds don't usually know that...

qbrozen · January 2008

But do you think badge-seeking yuppies will chose a 1-series? I would think the most popular ride for that group is a 525/528.

Someone else said the 1-series alienates the hardcore crowd due to weight. I'm still wondering what new vehicle should be considered as an alternative. So far, nobody has answered that question. I'm really not being facetious. If I can find a lighter RWD new car that is comparable in all other areas, I'd love to read up on it and put it up for consideration for my next ride.

circlew · January 2008

Yeah, the tires and dipstick thing bother me until I hit the corners. Somehow, I "fugheddaboutit" on the other side.

Regards,
OW

cdnpinhead · January 2008

Yeah, I hear you.

I may well be driving a rough-riding, tramlining, noisy, dipstick-less vehicle in six months and probably enjoying the hell out of it.

But it coulda been better!

And it coulda had a diesel!

I doubt that I'll have to hold my nose as hard as blueguy did after his most recent visit to Munich, but. . .

blueguydotcom · January 2008

Nah, 3 series by far is the badge-seeker's car of choice. 1 series isn't gonna get much of any group as it's such a compromise car - too heavy/isolated to be fun but too small to be considered by folks who don't care about performance.

News cars to consider over the 1... maybe the Mustang GT, Hyundai Genesis V8? Both are over 10k cheaper MSRP to MSRP which makes them a good deal more approachable by people too. RX-8 also. MX-5. Solstice/Sky. WRX. Mazdaspeed3. R32. 3 series coupe.

The ED angle on the 1 may pay off eventually. A 135 for 31-32k doesn't seem outrageous and a 128 for 26-27k seems like a decent deal.

qbrozen · January 2008

News cars to consider over the 1... maybe the Mustang GT, Hyundai Genesis V8? Both are over 10k cheaper MSRP to MSRP which makes them a good deal more approachable by people too. RX-8 also. MX-5. Solstice/Sky. WRX. Mazdaspeed3. R32. 3 series coupe.

Huh.

Well, the mustang is not a light car by any means. We'll see what happens with the Genesis, but I don't believe the coupe will come with a v8. who knows. and pricing certainly hasn't been announced on that. I'm not necessarily saying the mustang is a bad car. I find it very attractive, at least. But its not like it is magically cheaper for no reason. It is extremely unrefined compared to pretty much everything else on your list.

RX8 sucks gas like its going out of style and the lack of torque doesn't turn me on. I never got to drive one, however, because it is not built for anyone over 6'2".

MX5, solstice, sky = 2 seaters. no can do.

mazdaspeed3, R32, WRX = no RWD.

3-series = hUh?? You complain the 1-series is too heavy, yet...???

So I guess by your list, you aren't exactly looking at the 1-series for what it truly is ... a 2+2 RWD coupe that is at least lighter and cheaper than the 3. That is the car I'm seeing. Out of your list, the RX8 probably comes closest, but unfortunately for me it requires a couple of important compromises. If I wanted to get that kind of mileage, I'd go get a Hemi Charger or wait around for the Challenger.

Like you said, ED might work. You still have to pay for the trip, though. So its probably best, unless you want to travel ANYWAY, to buy from a dealer here in the states ... at least for now. But maybe next year ...

blueguydotcom · January 2008

I simply named decently performing cars near or below the price of the 1. To me, the lack of rear doors removes the 1 series pretty much on the spot. It's a car I would not want expressly because it's a coupe.

Here's an ED question for you...

How do you feel about people returning stateside and putting their ED plates back on the car? There's a guy at my business park with an ED 335i and he's running around with the euro plates on the front and back of his car. This was never something I considered doing with my 3 series...

qbrozen · January 2008

how is that legal? I assume he has 2 sets of plates on? I can't imagine that would look very good.

blueguydotcom · January 2008

Nope one set. My guess is he's waiting on his CA plates to arrive or he figures he'll roll the dice until he gets pulled over for it.

I've seen a few people around san diego run the ED plate on the front and run the ED plate on the back with the CA plate over it. Seems like a cry for attention.

cdnpinhead · January 2008

". . .a cry for attention."

Ya think?

Interesting, all the same. I put my Austrian Grossglockner sticker on one of my file cabinets at work, so I guess I'm guilty of something very similar -- I may look like a corporate drone (or a commuting lemming) 99.993% of the time, but a few hours a year I'm doing something way out of the ordinary. Only people who know what they're looking at care, which eliminates the vast majority.

Eliminating the vast majority is a core competency in my world.

kyfdx · January 2008

I have a Matchbox Porsche Boxster on my desk at work..

What does that mean? I'm too poor to buy the real thing..

circlew · January 2008

Keep working and someday....

Regards,
OW

hgeyer · January 2008

If your looking for alternative RWD sedans, I'd say try the Lexus IS 350 4dr. Personally, I'm waiting for the 335d this fall. I can't believe that it took so long for BMW to get off their aXXes and offer it over here.

On another note (I'm catching up), I put my ED plate on the front. Illinois has a two plate requirement, but so far no ticket for 6 years.

manybmws · January 2008

Try a G35/37. My favorite when comparing Japanese driver oriented cars to a BMW... Priced about the same as 1 series.

qbrozen · January 2008

It really wasn't a question of just finding comparisons. Basically, the complaint I've seen is that the 1-series is too heavy. So what I always ask in response is to name a comparable new car that weighs less. In any case, this is off topic, sorry.

philorock · January 2008

hello

i'm in the planning stages of a ED purchase in april or may. if i drop the car off in madrid, will it be trucked back to germany or driven? what are your experiences?

also, if i decide to go to the east instead, has anyone done an eastern european loop (munich,saltzburg, vienna,budapest, krokow, prague) and back? is the car safe in these cities (are there ample parking lots)?

thanks

manybmws · January 2008

ED insurance does not cover Eastern European countries.

raptorctr · January 2008

I did these countries back in 2006 on my ED. We really enjoyed it, hopefully the freeways will be built by now. Highly recommend, if you have time...do Slovenia. Best country we visited! Car is safe, you'll be safe. Just park your car in a secured lot!

Insurance covers eastern europe....

manybmws · January 2008

"Former Eastern bloc countries are excluded from insurance coverage on leased vehicles"

BMW makes this statement.

So if the car is purchased not leased you should be ok.

jlbl · January 2008

also, if i decide to go to the east instead, has anyone done an eastern european loop (munich,saltzburg, vienna,budapest, krokow, prague) and back? is the car safe in these cities (are there ample parking lots)?

Munich is in Germany and Salzburg and Vienna in Austria. All these are very nice and wealthy cities that belonged to the former "Western Block". You will feel safe there.

Budapest, Krakow and Prague belonged however to the Eastern Block. Splendid cities too (in particular Prague is impressive to my tastes). They deserve the visit as much as Munich, Vienna and Salzburg. I have safely driven a couple of times to Prague and Budapest and back (to Spain). Of course, there are parking lots and nice hotels in Prague and Budapest. Though I never visited Krakow, I would not be afraid of car touring there if I had the opportunity.

Regards,
Jose

dino001 · January 2008

Where exactly? I tried to find it and can't.

manybmws · January 2008

http://www.bmwofmanhattan.com/dsp_euro.cfm

Bottom of the page as a footnote.

Also, I found this on the BMW Financial Services site:

http://fs.bmwusa.com/BMWFSPulp/VEHLEA_EuropeanDelivery.htm

See bottom of the page note on Insurance.

If you don't have a dealer your working with already I am sure you could contact BMW Financial Services to verify.

Just an FYI - I have a BMW Visa Card from BMW Financial Services and the rewards accrued can be applied towards a lease or loan. Comes to about 1% of purchases made.

Let us know dino001 what you find out.

qbrozen · January 2008

Just an FYI - I have a BMW Visa Card from BMW Financial Services and the rewards accrued can be applied towards a lease or loan. Comes to about 1% of purchases made.

1%? I would be interested in such a card ... but not at 1%. FYI, you can get an AMEX BlueCash card and ... well, the rewards are a bit tricky depending on how much you spend... but I will definitely be getting back significantly more than 1%, which I could then use towards a BMW.

manybmws · January 2008

I am sure other cards can give you cash you could use, but then I would spend it before I bought a new car :surprise: I do enough traveling to use this an alternate card. They all have their pros and cons.

philorock · February 2008

does anyone know how the cars are transported back if you decide to leave it in another city? i would consider leaving it somewhere else if i felt certain that someone wasn't driving my car back to munich.

thanks,

phil

blueguydotcom · February 2008

BMW wiki on ED:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php?title=BMW_European_Delivery#Getting_You- r_BMW_Back_to_the_United_States

vinnyny · March 2008

It depends on where you leave it. Some places it goes directly on a ship and others it gets trucked back to Germany.

shipo · March 2008

I'm posting this as a response to a question made in a different discussion (where I'll post a link to this thread).

My wife wants to A) have a family vacation to Europe this summer, and

wants to do another European Delivery during said vacation, this time for a car for her. The question was raised that due to the current Euro/Dollar valuations, the incentive to buy a car via the ED program had all but evaporated. The following is a worksheet that I prepared for the car that currently at the top of her list:

Item ----------------------------------------- U.S. MSRP ------- ED Invoice
2008 BMW 328xi Sport Wagon ------ $36,100 ------------ $30,890
Destination --------------------------------------- $775 ----------------- $775
6-Speed Manual Transmission --------------- $0 -------------------- $0
Arctic Metallic Paint -------------------------- $475 ----------------- $430
Gray Leather Seats ------------------------------- $0 -------------------- $0
Premium Package -------------------------- $3,250 -------------- $2,960
Sport Package ------------------------------- $1,200 -------------- $1,090
Heated Seats ----------------------------------- $500 ----------------- $455
Park Distance Control ----------------------- $350 ----------------- $320
Xenon Headlights ------------------------------ $800 ----------------- $730
iPod Adaptor ------------------------------------ $400 ----------------- $365
HD Radio ----------------------------------------- $350 ----------------- $315
Logic 7 Premium Audio ------------------ $1,200 --------------- $1,090
Dealer Profit -------------------------------- Included --------------- $1,000
==============================================
Total: ------------------------------------------ $45,400 ------------- $40,420

Additionally, if you've been a BMW-CCA member for at least one year (and I have been), you take an additional $500 off of all 3-Series cars and $1,000 off of all 5-Series cars. Worst case here you can negotiate a deal that is nearly $5,000 below the U.S. MSRP. To be sure, many folks negotiate deals on domestically sourced cars, however, dealers who understand the ED process are typically open to even lower "above invoice" deals on ED cars. Why? Well, a couple of reasons actually.

1) ED cars are straight profit due to the fact that the dealership doesn't need to "finance" the car while it is on the dealership lot.

2) ED cars do NOT come out of their allocation of cars. Said another way, every ED car they sell is just one more sale above their yearly allocation of vehicles.

3) ED sales DO count toward the formula that determines allocations for future years.

Now, as for the actual costs associated with the delivery of an ED car, there are two schools of thought.

1) The "Blitz" trip. Schedule Friday off of work and fly to Munich on the Thursday evening flight (if you're on the left coast you'll need to take Thursday off as well and fly out Wednesday evening). Currently flights out of Boston are $1,122, $1,042 for New York, $1,242 from Washington DC, and $1,319 from Los Angeles. For East Coasters, you'll need Friday and Saturday night in a hotel, and for West Coasters, you'll need to add Thursday night as well, and Hotel rooms in Munich are plentiful in the $100 to $150 range. Transportation via the U-Bahn (subway) will cost between $5 and $10 for the whole trip. Full cost for the trip (less your U.S. airport transport costs) should range from $1,300 (from east coast) to a bit under $2,000 (from west coast). Total savings: $3,000 to $3,500 for the above car.

2) The "vacation" trip. Assuming that you're already going to go to Europe anyway, airfare to Munich is roughly on par with other destinations so that is usually a push as far as cost is concerned. Further assuming that you're going to rent a car, you'll find that for a car of any decent size that is capable of carrying more than one person and their luggage, the cost is at the very least $650 per week, and as such, car rental fees can be considered "additional savings". Total savings for the two week vacation that we're planning for next summer: $6,400 for the above car.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom · March 2008

A winter or spring vacation will net more savings in Europe, for sure. I stayed at the Marriott Munich (hotwire) for $50 a night. I can't find a hotel in the USA that nice for less than $150 a night. Not even close actually.

shipo · March 2008

Good point, we did our first ED trip in April and it was both wonderful and inexpensive. We had a blast.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx · March 2008

ED is a great idea, but if your comparison is based on paying MSRP for the domestically delivered unit, then it is flawed on it's face... I'd say most people can negotiate 5% off MSRP without breaking a sweat... And.. if your dealer won't do that, he probaby isn't going to cut you a $1000-over-invoice deal on an ED, either..

I can buy the brand-new M3 that just came out this month for MSRP...

(well.. if I had the money.. :surprise: )

regards,
kyfdx

ruking1 · March 2008

Yes that is true, there are a host of other things to consider, but for example on the M3, the local dealer would not come off MSRP, I found out in research, the yearly insurance premiums were way higher (2.5x) than the Z06 I eventually got. While this was model specific, the M3 engines that year were prone to grenading, and many (out of a very small M3 over all population) actually did. So I dodged at least 3 bullets- ah two bullets and one blast and shrapnel. :shades:

Having said that I was thinking seriously of doing it with/for a BMW 335 D twin turbo diesel 6 speed manual.

jb_shin · March 2008

Plus, M (I think I heard 6 and 1 as well) models DO come out of dealer allocation and there is no ED discount for M. So you will in fact pay more for the privilege if getting an M model via ED, much like what Porsche does.

kyfdx · March 2008

My post really wasn't about the "M" car..

My point was... I can negotiate a discount on a 328 wagon.... I wouldn't have to pay MSRP, like in the example...

ruking1 · March 2008

Well all of us DID understand what you said. The response to my post was a demo that your line of thinking WAS understood.

So using the response, "IF" it is true, then getting an M over there would offer NO (dollard)advantage!? Some folks would buy an M anyway and oh by the way have something to drive around Europe) But an 3 series wagon- probably? BUT you need to negotiate the wagon here first, then compare prices with ED, THEN and RE negotiate the ED delivery? GEE tired already.

shipo · March 2008

I believe that I stated that one could in many cases negotiate down from from MSRP on a domestically produced car, that said, in my experience dealers are willing to make less profit on an ED car than they are for one of the cars out of their allocation. I've confirmed this fact at four different dealerships now (two in New Jersey and two here in New Hampshire).

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom · March 2008

You can knock 2-3k off the msrp usually. But, here's the rub, can you drive your band new car in europe?

I saved over 5k on my last ED and then promptly spent a great portion of that saving zooming all over Europe. In my own car. It's fun to stay in Nice, France at a hotel right on the Riviera. It's even more fun when you just drove there in your brand new car - after spending hours ripping through the Alps and along the Mediterranean at 100+.

Worth every penny.

BMW European Delivery

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