Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

BMW European Delivery

145791031

Comments

  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    This discussion has been edited to include all future BMW owners (3-series, 5-series, etc.) seeking purchase through European delivery.

    If you have any questions, please address them to me in email. (karen@edmunds.com)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Per a recommendation from Pat the Sedans host, I am reposting the following three posts which were originally placed on the 5-Series board regarding BMW's European Delivery program.

    Best Regards
    Shipo

    P.S.
    Please bear in mind that these posts were written in response to questions from other TH members, so they might seem a little out of context.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    As some of y'all might remember Riez and I have had several go-arounds about the cost effectiveness of using BMWs ED program for obtaining a new BMW. I of course am very much a supporter of the ED route, Riez is very much the skeptic. Who is right? Both of us, depending upon an individuals point of view regarding factors that are both tangible and otherwise.

    As an example, flying from the East Coast to Munich is a matter of only 8 hours over and 9 hours back (Lufthansa nonstop JFK-MUC $629, Note: Northwest/KLM have a flight that connects through AMS for $468, however, it takes a lot longer). If on the other hand, you are flying from Omaha, NE, the flight duration is more like 14 hours over and 16 hours back (OMA-MSP-AMS-MUC $598), so the economics of time change somewhat.

    That said, for the "Quick and Dirty" ED trip from the East Coast, according to my accounting, the entire thing can be done for about $1,500 (see below for the accounting) cash out of pocket and a single day off work. Using my deal as an example, I saved $5,300 off MSRP plus another $408 in sales tax for a total savings of about $5,700 on the delivered vehicle. Not too bad for missing a day of work.

    Consider the following itinerary:

    17-Apr-2003 5:00 PM – Depart from office via Limo bound for JFK Airport ($65)
    17-Apr-2003 8:15 PM – Lufthansa #411 Departs JFK ($629)
    18-Apr-2003 10:05 AM – Lufthansa #411 Arrives MUC
    18-Apr-2003 12:00 PM – Through Customs and have a bite to eat
    18-Apr-2003 12:30 PM – Buy a 3 day Munich U-Bahn (Subway) Pass ($12)
    18-Apr-2003 12:35 PM – Board the S8 train bound for Marienplatz station
    18-Apr-2003 1:00 PM – Board the U6 train bound for Freimann (if memory serves)
    18-Apr-2003 1:15 PM – Walk from Freimann station to the ED Center (1 Kilometer)
    18-Apr-2003 1:30 PM – Arrive at the BMW ED Center, and check in
    18-Apr-2003 2:15 PM – Advisor gives you a complete briefing on your car
    18-Apr-2003 2:45 PM – Driving your new BMW all of 6 miles to E.H. Harms
    18-Apr-2003 4:00 PM – Drop off process complete, walk back to the U-Bahn
    18-Apr-2003 4:40 PM – Check into the Hotel Uhland for 2 nights ($150)

    Between check-in and check-out on Sunday 20-Apr-2003, you are on your own to see the sights, shop, drink beer or just sleep. Regardless of what you do, and any money you spend, the costs cannot be added to the cost of the trip as these are discretionary expenditures, and for food, you have to eat anyway, so that does not count either.

    20-Apr-2003 12:00 PM – Check out of the Hotel Uhland
    20-Apr-2003 12:15 PM – Take a train from just outside the hotel to MUC Airport
    20-Apr-2003 1:00 PM – Check in for Lufthansa #410
    20-Apr-2003 3:30 PM – Lufthansa #410 Departs MUC
    20-Apr-2003 6:25 PM – Lufthansa #410 Arrives JFK
    20-Apr-2003 7:10 PM – Through Customs, find Limo and ride home ($65)

    Beyond the above travel expenses, the only extra expense you will incur is an extra month of financing, which in my case is $558, so according to my above numbers and the extra payment, the total cost of the trip comes out to $1,479, yielding a net savings of $4,200 on a car configured like mine. Even if you are inclined to add your lost pay (or vacation time) for the single (Friday) day off of work, it is still unlikely that you will erase the entire savings.

    If on the other hand you are already planning a trip to Europe, as I was, and if you were going to have to rent a car anyway (as I would have done), not only can you eliminate the travel expenses from the equation, but you can add back the cost of the car rental as well, which is about $300 per week for a VW Jetta class of car. Given that I spent a week over there, my total savings is more like $6,000 compared to what it would have been if I had paid MSRP here in the States AND taken the trip to Paris anyway.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Regarding negotiations with the dealer:

    I got on the BMWUSA web site, obtained the name and phone number of the four closest dealers (all within 15 miles), that took 10 minutes, tops. I then called the first dealer, got a salesman on the phone and said, "Will you sell me a 530i via the BMW European Delivery Program for $1,500 over ED Invoice?"

    His response was, "Hmmm, we don't usually do that kind of deal. Can I call you back in 10 minutes?"

    "Yes, my phone number is..."

    Eight minutes later, he called me back and asked me, "If I agree to this deal, are you ready to buy right now?"

    "If you agree, I will be there in less than an hour to sign the paperwork and pay you a deposit."

    The entire transaction was over in less than two hours from the time when I first looked up the list of the dealerships.

    Trip Planning:

    In my case, this is less of an issue as we were going to Europe anyway; however, using Expedia.com, it took me about 20 minutes to make the plane reservations R/T to Munich and the hotel reservations in Paris. As we were going in April, I didn't figure on having too much of a problem finding hotel rooms while we were touring, and I didn't.

    Passports:

    I do not count this as a valid expense. Passports are good for 10 years, and can be renewed by mail. A new Passport costs $85 (regardless of whether it is a new issue or a renewal) to process. In addition, you need two "Passport Photographs" of yourself, so when I include my time to have the pictures taken, the time to print out the application (http://travel.state.gov/DS-0011.pdf), fill it out, lick the envelope, stamp it and mail it, we are still talking less than $200, which works out to $20 per year. Given that I used my Passport twice last year, the cost that can be allocated for my ED trip is $10.

    Miscellaneous Expenses:

    IMHO, expenses for meals and such are not valid as one must eat anyway, that and you are fed two meals (dinner and breakfast over, and lunch and a snack on the way back) each way. In Europe many hotels include a breakfast or offer one for a very nominal charge (the Hotel Uhland is no exception). Basically that means that you need to provide for your own dinner Friday and Saturday nights and you Lunch on Saturday, everything else is covered. Once again, you will need to eat anyway, will it cost you more to eat in Munich than here in the States? Probably not by much, if at all.

    Exchanging Currency:

    We now live in the era of the ATM, I haven't "Exchanged Currency" since 1991. These days, you simply walk up to the nearest ATM, stick in your card, and out pops local currency, debited directly to your account, and with no "Exchange Fees" associated, you get the EXACT prevailing exchange rate.

    Waiting around in airports:

    Hmmm, nobody can "Bill" all of the time, we all need some "Down time". I use airport and airplane time as the time to catch up on reading the latest Tom Clancy or Nelson Demille. Maybe I'm just wierd, however I actually look foreward to this time just so that I can relax. Needless to say, in my mind, this is "No Charge".

    Final Thoughts:

    Riez, you must understand, you and I sing from the same page of the BMW Hymnal on most things BMW. I know that I can count on you being my "Loyal Opposition" regarding the ED thing, as you can count upon me being the same for you. In the end, we are both right, it just depends upon what one's priorities are. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    According to my salesman: Not only do ED cars not come out of the dealership allocations, and not only do they count toward bonuses and commisions, they also count in the calculations for what the dealership gets allocated in future years.

    It is certainly in a dealerships' best interest to sell as many ED cars as possible, even at a minimal profit.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    ED can be a good deal, but you're skewing the numbers.

    1. $5300 MSRP savings sounds awfully high. Assuming you make the same deal over invoice, you'd have to be getting a 7-series or something to make this work out. The savings is more like $2500 on a 3-series. Obviously, the more expensive the car, the bigger the potential savings.

    2. You're not going to save sales tax unless you do some shenanigan with your DMV. You're going to get charged sales tax by your local dealer exactly as if you bought the car at the dealer.

    3. You're forgetting the 2-3 months of carrying lease/car payments on a car you don't have. (30-days prior to delivery and 6-8 weeks getting the car home).

    - Mark
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Fair enough, I wrote the above according to my memory, so, I just checked the numbers, and here is what I came up with.

    Vehicle Price:
    MSRP: $47,395.00
    My Price: $42,180.00 (ED Inv + $1,500)
    Savings: $5,215.00 (I was high by $85)

    Sales Tax: (I Leased my car in NJ, so 6% is the tax)
    @MSRP: $1,137.48
    @My Price $824.58
    Savings: $312.90

    What I forgot to mention (and why the numbers that I backed into from above came out the way they did) is that last year when I got my car, there was a thing known as a "Luxury Tax" as well, which was 3% above $38,000.

    2002 Luxury Tax:
    @MSRP: $281.85
    @My Price: $125.40
    Savings: $156.45

    Final Tally:
    Vehicle: $5,215.00
    Sales Tax: $312.90
    Lux Tax: $156.45
    Total savings: $5,684.35 (For 2003, that savings would be $5,527.90)

    In the end my number (once again, written from memory) was off by $15.65, not too bad for a year. ;-) That said, the same car bought this year for the same price would both cost a little less, and receive less savings, and for the same reason, the Luxury Tax went away as of 1-Jan-2003.

    Regarding my negotiated deal; some dealerships will deal on cars in stock, some on cars on order, some on ED cars, and some on any or all of the above. Due to the reasons posted in #316, I was able to get a $1,500 over ED Invoice deal, I never asked about a car purchased from their allocation.

    Regarding Sales Tax; I have lived in (and bought cars in) seven different states, and with the exception of New Hampshire (where I now live), which has no sales tax at all; the tax is calculated upon the negotiated price of the car, NOT on MSRP. So, the better the deal you get, the less tax you pay.

    Regarding transit time; I picked my car up here in the States three weeks to the day after I dropped it off in Munich. Granted, that was in NJ, in CA we are talking an entirely different story.

    Regarding lost payments; I did in fact include the extra up front payment required for the ED Program, which in my case was $558. I did not include the "Lost Time" while the car was in transit, which was three weeks, which works out to another $398.

    I hope this clears up any confusion. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    you continue to compare $1500 over ED invoice to U.S. delivery MSRP. People who are willing to negotiate $1500 over ED invoice can just as easily negotiate $1500 over US delivery invoice. This reduces all your numbers about about half.

    Second, my understanding is that ED cars must be paid for in full 30-days prior to delivery in Europe. And most folks report the car taking 6-8 weeks. This is certainly more than a single extra payment made while you have no car to show for it.

    Just to anticpate your next post, you're going to say that ED cars don't come out of dealer's allocation so you can drive a better deal. While this may be true in some tight markets, I don't think it is true in most markets. Certainly, $1500 over invoice is very doable on a non-M 3-series or 5-series right now and you can do even better on some models of 5-series. Finally, you can always bargain more aggressively for a car on the lot. So deal-wise, I'd call it a wash.

    We can split the numbers several ways but apples-to-apples, there are very few ED buyers who realize a total net savings of $5500 as you purport. On the average, it is more like $2000-$2500 from which you need to subtract any incremental travel costs.

    - Mark
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Just to anticpate your next post, you're going to say that ED cars don't come out of dealer's allocation so you can drive a better deal. While this may be true in some tight markets, I don't think it is true in most markets."

    Sorry, this is absolutely true in every US market. In my shopping experience, I found it easier to get the dealer to bend on the ED price then they were on the price of a car that came out of their allocation. In fact, the three dealerships that I have visited over the last several years had very little unsold inventory either inbound or on their lots, so why should they bargain? Another thing to consider is that while an ED car does not come out of the allocation, it DOES count toward future allocations, thus another incentive for a dealership to sell ED cars.

    FWIW, I have stated that the savings on a vehicle like mine is about $5,500 (when compared with MSRP), on the Vehicle. I have also stated that IF you were not already planning a trip to Europe, and did a quickie three day trip, you would have to deduct a minimum of $1,500 for any savings on the car (including one extra finance payment), and depending upon where you live, as many as two more payments while the car is on the water.

    Of course, the flip side of this is when an individual is already going to be there. In my case, my wife and I were going to be in Paris, and we were going to rent a car and tour around Europe a little. In this type of scenario, we actually found it to be cheaper to fly into Munich instead of Paris, where we picked up my car, and had a blast driving through Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Luxembourg and then back into Germany. Not only were the airline tickets a bit cheaper, but we had no rental car expenses at all. Based upon the way I am inclined to do my accounting, I got to add the cost of the car that I did not rent on top of the savings on the vehicle. So, I saved about $5,700 on the "Out The Door" price of the car, less 7 weeks of payments (1 month pre-payment, and 3 weeks in transit -- $558 + $398), plus the rental car savings ($300), giving me a total savings of $5,044. Not too bad.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Member Posts: 19
    I am trying to find the site of the ed prices. i found on one site, the ed msrp, but not the invoice prices, which is where the real savings come in. please inform
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Please look at the PDF's over on http://www.eurobuyers.com

    You will find the invoice prices down on page two of each of the price sheets.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I have no issue with your computing a number based on MSRP. But it is meaningless as a guage of ED costs savings - you can't assume someone would drive a hard bargain on ED but walk in and pay full list for US delivery. People report here and elsewhere of doing $1500 over invoice on US delivery every week.

    IOW, your $5K figure is bogus as a tool to be used by someone who wants to truly know how much they'll "save" by doing ED. There are lots of variables, but I think $2K is more representative of the true savings. I'll let things ride at that and stop belaboring this.

    - Mark
  • smb6smb6 Member Posts: 1
    Help!

    I went to eurobuyers.com and now have confidential wholesale price for a 2004 model BMW 330Cic [effective April 1, 2003].

    This board [helpfully!] has given me the approach to get a dealer to agree to [for example] $1500 over ED invoice.

    Is that price based on: "Base Price Euro Delivery Munich Pick Up" on the www.eurobuyers.com site?

    Also should I expect to ALSO pay in addition to the [my example] $1500 over ED invoice the DESTINATION & HANDLING fee that on the eurobuyers.com site shows an additional $635 cost?

    Are there any other "typical" fees I should expect a dealer to try to additionally throw at me when I am negociating the ED price?

    I really want to buy a 2004 330Cic ASAP for ED.

    This board's help has been amazing.

    Thanking ALL in advance.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The way you calculate a "$1,500" over deal is as follows:

    Start with the "Base Price Euro Delivery Munich Pick Up", add the invoice cost of each option (the same price as a domestic purchase), add the "Destination & Handling" (which is $695 by the way), and then add dealer profit (I think that $1,500 is fair).

    The only other "Extra Charges" that are sometimes valid are the "Regional Advertising" (or MACO) costs. Some markets charge MACO regardless of whether the car is ED or not, in other markets, ED cars are exempt.

    Let us know how you do.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • loubctloubct Member Posts: 39
    smb6: I ordered an ED purchased 2004 330 CIC al couple of months ago. Take the ED Invoice (Confidential Wholesale Price) for the car and all options. Add in the destination & handling fee. The only other fees that you should be charged are the "dealer profit" & and processing fee (~$40). I did not pay an MACO fee. Also options for the car are priced at ED Invoice. You can email me if you have any questions. I am going to Munich in May.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    When buying a BMW in Houston, getting $500 off of US MSRP is about as much as you will get. So consider the following 03 BMW 325i strippy (D&H is the same in all situations.

    US MSRP 27800
    US invoice 25460
    ED MSRP 25855
    ED invoice 23530

    If ou pay MSRP, your ED savings is $1,945. this may not be worth the cost of ED. Even when dealing up from invoice (US invoice-ED invoice), your savings drops to $1,930. The reference becomes, how close can you get to ED invoice considering that most BMW buyers (non-enthusiasts) pay close to US MSRP when they pick up a car from the dealer. If you order you vehicle, you still have to wait. There are alot of hidden costs that can be involved in ED. But if the original intention is a vacation, like Shipo and others, then the vacation cost is separate from the vehicle purchase. The vehicle purchase just tops off a marvelous vacation.

    Also, the more expensive the vehicle, the greater the savings. I would also note, those that buy more expensive vehicles (7 series or Volvo S80) probably spend more on their vacation but might also be traveling on frequent flyer miles. So the cost of ED really varies from person to person. What may be a savings for Shipo might be a major expense for you.

    What is preferred? Go to a BMW center, see the car that you want. With the options you want and get it for a fair price. Drive off the lot that day.

    The intention of ED, you can check the BMW, Volvo, Saab, M-B and Porsche site, is to time your car pickup with your vacation and avoid the rental (about $400 a week for a midsize car). I, personally, would not consider the two pickup. I like driving in Europe and with your car is a bonus. With M-B and Porsche, it can cost your more doing ED. I think with Porsche the cost of doing ED is $2000 additional.
  • dusterbusterdusterbuster Member Posts: 23
    not to add fuel to the fire, but i ended up ordering a 330i for June European Delivery. the savings for me were about $3340 after taxes, etc. my wife and i were going to go to europe in the fall, so we just pushed up our trip to the summer (high season, unfortunately). the savings more than pays for the trip. :)
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    Having lived in Europe for a few years I think ED would be a great opportunity for me to go back and revive the good ol' days.. in a brand new bimmer! :-)

    I have a couple of questions for the ED experts here:

    1) When buying thru ED program can you order a European trim that's not offered at the US dealers?

    2) Does shipping time vary depending on which ED center in Europe you leave your car at (Paris vs. Munich for example)?

    3) When your car arrives in the US, does it get delivered to your house or do you have to pick it up from the dealer?

    Thanks!
    Tony
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Question 1: Usually no, however, BMW has occasionally allowed Euro-Only options such as cloth interiors and sun shades to be ordered on North American cars, regardless of whether they were ordered through the ED program.

    Question 2: Shipping time does in fact vary, that said, the difference between Paris and Munich is probably irrelevant. That said, drop it off in Rome, and it will most likely be several weeks different, not to mention an extra thousand miles on the Odometer. If I am not mistaken, when you drop your car off at most of the southern European locations, they drive your car some or all of the way back to Bremerhaven. From Munich and Paris, your car is trucked to the port.

    Question 3: When your car makes it to the U.S. port, it goes through the VPC just like any other new BMW, and on to the dealership where you ordered it. You then get the opportunity to have your car "Delivered" to you a second time (first time in Munich, the second time at your dealership).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    My cut at answers:

    1. Generally no. I have heard a few rumors of a dealer going to bat for a special "behind the scenes" order through BMWNA for a special color or trim, but it is very uncommon and there is no routine process for getting non US options on US spec cars.

    2. At a couple dropoff sites (like Italy I believe - check BMW's web site), your car is driven back to a port, so that would definitely add time. Beyond this, I'm not aware of any pattern in shipping times. Since the car-carrier ships don't run that often, you're looking at quite a bit of +/- variability that will likely dominate over any port's advantage in shipping time.

    3. That's up to the dealer, but I'm sure most would do it. Once the car arrives at your local dealer, it is just like any other US delivery.

    Hope this helps,

    - Mark
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    Thanks a lot for the info!

    Another silly question: when you receive your new car in Munich, does the odometer read 'zero' miles? I know it sounds crazy, but I just like to turn the key and see 000000 ... :-)

    Tony
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Sorry, between the production line and the European delivery center, there are trucks, parking lots, vehicle prep centers, and probably a few other things that the car needs to be moved for. If I remember correctly, mine read something like 000001.2

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    Thanks Mr. ED! :-)

    I came across this site. I think it's pretty good. What do you think?

    http://www.runlevel6.com/bmw/EDsavings.html

    Tony
  • cabaistecabaiste Member Posts: 31
    I'm picking up an ED 330xi 6 speed at the end of this month. I'm in the "Shipo camp" when it comes to the savings. They're HUGE ! I'm saving $5500+ off MSRP with an ED from a dealer who agreed to $500 over ED Invoice. Even if we all agree that I should be able to get a healthy discount from a dealer (I'd imagine I could negotiate $2000 off a local dealer in Northern NJ), I still save a lot more than the cost of a trip.
    I'm taking a long weekend ski break in Garmisch rather than heading up to Vermont. With airfares under $300 RT from the East Coast to MUC right now, theres never been a better time to do an ED (its a pity the Dollar has fallen against the Euro though, guess I cant have it all!)
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    I will add to Shipo and markjenn

    Q1. Your dealer might no go to bat for you, but depending on the accessories. They could be purchased at a BMW center. You generally get cheaper prices by using a center that is not owned by BMW AG.

    Q2. The closer that you drop off to Bremerhaven or Antwerp, the better your chances of getting your car quicker. RoRo generally goes from Bremerhaven to Zeebrugge to Southampton then to N.A.

    Mine got to the U.S. fast but got help in at Port Neat, NJ. Then my car got trucked to S.C. for processing. My car should have only took four weeks max.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    I want to know if this happens often. I went thru BMW Finance when I financed my car. I did the loan about one month before pickup, but I did not make my first payment until I got home from England. Is this the norm? It seems that most cases that I have read about, the individuals had made a payment before going to MUC.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    My wife and I stayed in the Grand Hotel in Garmisch last April. We really loved it, have a wonderful time.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • cabaistecabaiste Member Posts: 31
    I'm picking up an ED 330xi 6 speed at the end of this month. I'm in the "Shipo camp" when it comes to the savings. They're HUGE ! I'm saving $5500+ off MSRP with an ED from a dealer who agreed to $500 over ED Invoice. Even if we all agree that I should be able to get a healthy discount from a dealer (I'd imagine I could negotiate $2000 off a local dealer in Northern NJ), I still save a lot more than the cost of a trip.
    I'm taking a long weekend ski break in Garmisch rather than heading up to Vermont. With airfares under $300 RT from the East Coast to MUC right now, theres never been a better time to do an ED (its a pity the Dollar has fallen against the Euro though, guess I cant have it all!)
  • 330iii330iii Member Posts: 71
    How did you folks get such cheap airfare? Orbitz and Expedia are quoting 1900 round trip for travel in the summer!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, I found Newark to Munich flying Northwest/KLM (via Amsterdam) for $923 for mid July on Expedia.

    On Orbitz I found JFK to Munich (via Amsterdam) on KLM for $877 and JFK to Munich (via Madrid) on Iberia for $972.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel012903.htm

    I just came across this news release from the State of Oregon Department of Justice regarding Delon BMW, who sold ED cars after they are delivered from Europe as new (to customers other than those who drove the cars in Europe).

    Has anyone heard of this? Are there any ED scams that one should be aware of?

    Tony
  • ultrarunnerultrarunner Member Posts: 64
    I am really enjoying my 325iT European Delivery from last fall. Thinking of doing it again maybe later this year. To Shipo and any others, what do you like or dislike about the 530 vs. a 325?

    Also, would you avoid BMW model year changes and wait until next year??
  • kevinjskevinjs Member Posts: 19
    You guys have filled me with much info. Thanks. Now for the questions. Is it correct, that the options are paid at wholesale invoice? Also, where can I get info as to the various drop off points, and just to get the ball rolling. I am thinking of the 325cic for the 2004 . Will the dealers usually try to get more because it is a just out model? Has BMW released what the changes will be for 2004? I had been going back and forth between the Audi a4 conv., and it rides quite nicely, but the BMW had a better road feel for me. Also better leg room. I gather that the dealers have all the ed numbers Thanks in advance
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    This scheme involves selling cars delivered under the ED program to unsuspecting buyers buying the car off the lots here in the states. It also sounds like the dealer did disclose that the car was an ED program car, but not that it was "used". Without knowing how the car was truly represented to the buyer, it is difficult to gauge the degree of deception.

    In any event, this type of fraud would have no bearing on someone ordering a ED car and taking delivery in the states. The ED program is very structured so if you're getting a car through normal channels, I can't see how there would be any way not to be assured you're getting a brand new car in Europe and that the car you drove in Europe was the same one that showed up here.

    - Mark
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    The following quotation is from this site: http://www.milleredp.com/~jem/edfaq/
    I appreciate comments from Californians as well as residents of other states.

    Thanks!
    Tony

    "There may be, depending on where you live and how long your trip is. Some states may charge a lower sales tax or registration fee on the car or may treat it as a used car for registration purposes.

    In the case of California, if the vehicle is in use outside of California for more than 90 days before you register it in California, you will not be charged use tax on the vehicle. Note, however, that time in transit with Harms is not considered "in use", and complying with the letter of the law on this matter means either (a) taking a three-month trip or (b) flying over to get the car from BMW, leaving it with friends, relatives, or otherwise storing it in Europe for the remainder of the 90 days, then flying back later to hand it over to E. H. Harms. The tax savings may, or may not, justify not having the vehicle available for the additional period of time."
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    I looked at the same issue and found out that at least for MD and VA, DMV will charge sales tax unless a proof of sales tax payment in other jurisdiction. If the car had been used for more than 5 years (MD), then it is waived, VA I think was a bit shorter.

    Airfare: as shipo said, there are still bargains to be had, even during the summer high season. I usually vary my departure/return date back and forth a few days to see if it will make difference. Usually it does, but still most major German cities that have direct flight from the US have good deals. I live in Berlin and sometimes the connecting flight costs just as much to Frankfurt from DC. When there was a direct flight from Washington Dulles to Berlin, I paid $330 for a round trip in July of 2001.

    Garmish: it is definitely worth driving down from Munich. Only about an hour and no speed limit. But most of all, BEAUTIFUL place for driving and just relaxing.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    Quote from kevinjs:
    "Is it correct, that the options are paid at wholesale invoice? Also, where can I get info as to the various drop off points, and just to get the ball rolling. I am thinking of the 325cic for the 2004 . Will the dealers usually try to get more because it is a just out model? Has BMW released what the changes will be for 2004? "

    A dealer probably would not give the option at wholesale invoice but when you start bargaining for prices, do the following: Add up the invoice cost for ED plus invoice cost of options plus D&H. Then add $1200 to $1500 over the invoice. You may want to try Rizzo Method (check the FAQ on Bimmerfest.com or E46fanatics.com)

    BMWUSA.COM has a list of the drop off points.

    I don't know what a dealer will do considering that the facelift is new.

    Bimmerfest.com has a list of what is new and also the news section on bmwusa.com under the news section list what is new with the 3er Ci & CiC. Or I can email you a press release
  • loubctloubct Member Posts: 39
    kevinjs: I second the above comments from seivrig. Bimmerfest.com or bmwinfo.com both have details on 2004 facelift changes. Also, the $1200-$1500 over ED invoice (for car and options ) is doable. I did it. Have a 2004 330 CIC on order.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    As you might know, I turned in my perfectly good 1999 328i with only 40K miles on it last year. I did in fact consider staying in the E46 body style (either by keeping my 328i, or by moving up to a 330i), however, my growing children were complaining about their "Foot Room" in the back of my 328i, and I knew that the 330i would be no better. Given that I have always liked the look of the E39 5-Series, especially since the 2001 facelift, I decided to "Test fit" my kids in the back of a 5er. Even though the official specifications show it as having only 0.1" more leg room than the E46, my kids fit a lot better. The other issue I had with the 5-Series was performance, back in 1998 when I ordered my 328i, I drove a 528i, and found its performance to be just a little lacking. Now however, with the 3.0 liter engine in the 530i, I found that the car was transformed from a marginal performer to a car that could easily dust my 328i (which could in turn, easily dust a 325i). I was sold.

    The only remaining issue was which body style, I was tempted to keep the 328i for a year or two longer and upgrade to the E60 5-Series (which was then thought to have a debut date in late 2002 or very early 2003), however, I REALLY did not like the look of the Spy Photos available at the time. In fact, I am still not too fond of the (now softened) look, and much prefer the classic lines of the E39. So I decided to order my 530i to coincide with a trip to Europe that my wife and I were planning.

    As for specific likes when compared to the E46. Other than the performance, looks and extra back seat room already mentioned, I have compiled a list of items and how they compare, in my subjective opinion:

    I like the steering in the 530i better, that said, I did not have the SP on the 328i
    I like the 5-Series Premium Audio a lot better than the 3-Series Harman Kardon system
    My wife LOVES the dual climate control that does not exist in the 3-Series
    The 5-Series has a FAR more comprehensive "Trip Computer"
    The seats in the 530i are far better than the comparable 3-Series SP seats

    Then there are the little things, like when driving the E46, and you cross the temperature threshold south of 38 degrees, the car "Dings" you to let you know of that fact, and then (unless you catch it in time), it changes your dash display to show you the OAT. Grrrr. On the 5-Series, there is MUCH more display area, which is split between the Speedo area and the top of the Audio Panel display, so, when you cross that magic threshold, you are "Dinged" once, and no displays change. I know that this is a stupid little issue, but I cannot tell you how much aggravation that it caused me, and how GLAD I am that my 530i does not do that.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Just so that there is no misunderstanding, when I stated that I saved money on the sales tax because I obtained my car via the ED program, I am not saying that I did not pay sales tax.

    Given that my negotiated price of $42,380 was $5,215 less than the MSRP of $47,395, I saved $312.90 (savings of $5,215 multiplied by 6% New Jersey sales tax).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Member Posts: 19
    I noticed that the alarm for the vehicle is dealer accessory. Does that mean that it is an additional payment to get an alarm system , or is it in the prep. What about an alarm for the time spent with the auto in Europe?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The 3-Series has a built-in "Anti-Theft" system, and is "Alarm Ready". You can buy the alarm system fairly inexpensively from http://www.circlebmw.com ($225.00) or http://www.pacificbmw.com ($232.05) and according to owners who have done the work, the installation can be done in an hour for those who work on cars a lot, and under two hours for those who do not.

    The 5-Series comes equipped with the alarm right from the factory.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Member Posts: 19
    Thanks for the info. Is the anti theft system to kill the engine? I guess the old lights & horn blasting comes with the alarm system. Will they install one at the factory for a price, and is it the prudent thing to do if I am going to drive for a couple weeks over there? By the way, do you know of any dealers in the South Florida area(Ft.Lauderdale,Palm Beach) which are friendly to ED Thanks in advance. Kevin
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Per the BMW 3-Series manual:

    "Your BMW is equipped with a passive anti-theft system. This electronic immobilization system is designed to reduce the susceptibility of the vehicle to theft by making it impossible to start the engine using any means other than the special keys furnished with the vehicle. Your BMW center can cancel the electronic system authorization for individual keys (in the event of loss, for instance). A deactivated key can no longer be used to start the engine."

    As far as I know, there is no way to get the alarm system installed in your 3-Series from the factory, that said, it never hurts to ask. The question is; do you REALLY NEED IT? After all, unless you are driving into central and southern Italy or Greece, you are probably going to be in areas that have far less crime and car theft than where you live right now. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

    Sorry, given that I am one of those folks that actually LIKES Snow, Ice and Cold Weather, Florida is a place that, on the rare occasion that I am actually there, I suffer greatly in the heat. As such, I am not a good resource regarding the dealerships down there. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ipatty13ipatty13 Member Posts: 47
    I purchased and self-installed an alarm on my 2003 330i in January, while in Germany. It took about one hour--ONCE I got ahold of the proper tools ;-) . The delivery center said it was impossible to have it installed by the factory before delivery. I do NOT recommend having a dealer install it (either in Germany or US), because it's a relatively easy DIY job.

    One thing to keep in mind is that your alarm will not function until a dealer fficially "activates" it, which only can happen post-installation.

    I went to great pains to determine the cost for activation in Germany. After speaking with a technician at the dealership near the ED Center, I learned they would charge approx. 30 Euro for activation. He said just to show up during business hours; no aptmnt needed. But, I ran out of time and never got back to the dealership to activate the alarm (I'm having this done as soon as the car arrives in the States).

    I agree with Shipo that there is no need for the alarm, unless you're traveling to a high theft area, such as italy. Even then, do you think a determined car thief will be dissuaded by an alarm?

    Even so, at 192.50 Euro (incl tax), the alarm generally is cheaper to buy in Germany (not much now, though, due to the exchange rate). So, I'd say buy it in Europe while you're there and get it activated in the US.
  • 330iii330iii Member Posts: 71
    In the latest issue of Motor Trend(C6 Corvette on cover) they are saying the Performance package will be $3900 does anyone have invoice figures?
  • dusterbusterdusterbuster Member Posts: 23
    invoice on the performance package (ZHP) is supposed to be $3550.
  • kevinjskevinjs Member Posts: 19
    I am from NY,so I was always a snow guy too! Going up to Vermont & Hunter to ski!! Now, I stay warm and play golf!! Thanks for the info. I happened to call a dealer today ,and they said that they only work off the ED msrp. I will have to scout around. I'll keeep you informed. Kevin
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Just prior to the point where I formally started shopping (all 5 minutes of it) for my 530i, I was back at the dealership where I bought my 1999 328i so that they could tell me what I already knew, I needed brakes. While my car was being looked at, I went upstairs to kick a few tires. The salesman that I had worked with on the 328i had been promoted, and was no longer working the sales floor. I was assigned to Mr. Slick, and while I was shaking his hand, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. Uh Oh!

    I told him that I was considering a 530i through the ED Program. He asked me what options I was looking for, and he promptly configured a car (with my help) on the BMWUSA.com web site, printed it out, and handed me the sheet saying, "There is the price." Ummm, I was very sure that I had told him that I wanted to get the car via the ED Program, and just to make sure, I told him again. His response was, "Well, that will save you a couple of bucks, but it's not really worth it. You're much better off buying a car here, that's what I would do if I were you."

    I was totally blown away; this guy was so arrogant that he felt he could tell what I should do and how to do it. Needless to say, I split.

    A week or two later, he called me and asked me if I had decided what I wanted to do. I told him that I was going to order an ED 530i, and I hinted that I was looking to pay less than ED MSRP. Mr. Slick seemed to get all bent out of shape, and told me that his dealership did not bargain on any cars, much less ED cars, which were already discounted.

    I have to tell you, this man was a fool, because all he had to do was look at the file he had in his hand (where he got my phone number from) to find out that I had gotten a "Deal" on my 328i, from his dealership, and in the first few "Hot" months of production no less.

    A week later, I called another dealership just down the road (literally) from the first one, and within 5 minutes, had a $1,500 over ED Invoice deal. Funny thing, on the day that I signed the final paperwork, which was one month prior to ED Pickup, I saw Mr. Slick walking around the showroom floor of my new dealership. What's up with that?

    Two months later, I found out. Mr. Slick had been canned and was now selling used cars at my new dealership. ;-)

    That was a long way of suggesting that you call around a little, and even ask to speak to the Sales Manager of the dealership that already rejected your offer. I'm betting that if I had dealt with any other sales person at dealership #1, I would have gotten a better price.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
Sign In or Register to comment.