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BMW European Delivery

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, I found Newark to Munich flying Northwest/KLM (via Amsterdam) for $923 for mid July on Expedia.

    On Orbitz I found JFK to Munich (via Amsterdam) on KLM for $877 and JFK to Munich (via Madrid) on Iberia for $972.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 1violinist1violinist Posts: 338
    http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel012903.htm

    I just came across this news release from the State of Oregon Department of Justice regarding Delon BMW, who sold ED cars after they are delivered from Europe as new (to customers other than those who drove the cars in Europe).

    Has anyone heard of this? Are there any ED scams that one should be aware of?

    Tony
  • I am really enjoying my 325iT European Delivery from last fall. Thinking of doing it again maybe later this year. To Shipo and any others, what do you like or dislike about the 530 vs. a 325?

    Also, would you avoid BMW model year changes and wait until next year??
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    You guys have filled me with much info. Thanks. Now for the questions. Is it correct, that the options are paid at wholesale invoice? Also, where can I get info as to the various drop off points, and just to get the ball rolling. I am thinking of the 325cic for the 2004 . Will the dealers usually try to get more because it is a just out model? Has BMW released what the changes will be for 2004? I had been going back and forth between the Audi a4 conv., and it rides quite nicely, but the BMW had a better road feel for me. Also better leg room. I gather that the dealers have all the ed numbers Thanks in advance
  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    This scheme involves selling cars delivered under the ED program to unsuspecting buyers buying the car off the lots here in the states. It also sounds like the dealer did disclose that the car was an ED program car, but not that it was "used". Without knowing how the car was truly represented to the buyer, it is difficult to gauge the degree of deception.

    In any event, this type of fraud would have no bearing on someone ordering a ED car and taking delivery in the states. The ED program is very structured so if you're getting a car through normal channels, I can't see how there would be any way not to be assured you're getting a brand new car in Europe and that the car you drove in Europe was the same one that showed up here.

    - Mark
  • 1violinist1violinist Posts: 338
    The following quotation is from this site: http://www.milleredp.com/~jem/edfaq/
    I appreciate comments from Californians as well as residents of other states.

    Thanks!
    Tony

    "There may be, depending on where you live and how long your trip is. Some states may charge a lower sales tax or registration fee on the car or may treat it as a used car for registration purposes.

    In the case of California, if the vehicle is in use outside of California for more than 90 days before you register it in California, you will not be charged use tax on the vehicle. Note, however, that time in transit with Harms is not considered "in use", and complying with the letter of the law on this matter means either (a) taking a three-month trip or (b) flying over to get the car from BMW, leaving it with friends, relatives, or otherwise storing it in Europe for the remainder of the 90 days, then flying back later to hand it over to E. H. Harms. The tax savings may, or may not, justify not having the vehicle available for the additional period of time."
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    I looked at the same issue and found out that at least for MD and VA, DMV will charge sales tax unless a proof of sales tax payment in other jurisdiction. If the car had been used for more than 5 years (MD), then it is waived, VA I think was a bit shorter.

    Airfare: as shipo said, there are still bargains to be had, even during the summer high season. I usually vary my departure/return date back and forth a few days to see if it will make difference. Usually it does, but still most major German cities that have direct flight from the US have good deals. I live in Berlin and sometimes the connecting flight costs just as much to Frankfurt from DC. When there was a direct flight from Washington Dulles to Berlin, I paid $330 for a round trip in July of 2001.

    Garmish: it is definitely worth driving down from Munich. Only about an hour and no speed limit. But most of all, BEAUTIFUL place for driving and just relaxing.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    Quote from kevinjs:
    "Is it correct, that the options are paid at wholesale invoice? Also, where can I get info as to the various drop off points, and just to get the ball rolling. I am thinking of the 325cic for the 2004 . Will the dealers usually try to get more because it is a just out model? Has BMW released what the changes will be for 2004? "

    A dealer probably would not give the option at wholesale invoice but when you start bargaining for prices, do the following: Add up the invoice cost for ED plus invoice cost of options plus D&H. Then add $1200 to $1500 over the invoice. You may want to try Rizzo Method (check the FAQ on Bimmerfest.com or E46fanatics.com)

    BMWUSA.COM has a list of the drop off points.

    I don't know what a dealer will do considering that the facelift is new.

    Bimmerfest.com has a list of what is new and also the news section on bmwusa.com under the news section list what is new with the 3er Ci & CiC. Or I can email you a press release
  • loubctloubct Posts: 39
    kevinjs: I second the above comments from seivrig. Bimmerfest.com or bmwinfo.com both have details on 2004 facelift changes. Also, the $1200-$1500 over ED invoice (for car and options ) is doable. I did it. Have a 2004 330 CIC on order.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    As you might know, I turned in my perfectly good 1999 328i with only 40K miles on it last year. I did in fact consider staying in the E46 body style (either by keeping my 328i, or by moving up to a 330i), however, my growing children were complaining about their "Foot Room" in the back of my 328i, and I knew that the 330i would be no better. Given that I have always liked the look of the E39 5-Series, especially since the 2001 facelift, I decided to "Test fit" my kids in the back of a 5er. Even though the official specifications show it as having only 0.1" more leg room than the E46, my kids fit a lot better. The other issue I had with the 5-Series was performance, back in 1998 when I ordered my 328i, I drove a 528i, and found its performance to be just a little lacking. Now however, with the 3.0 liter engine in the 530i, I found that the car was transformed from a marginal performer to a car that could easily dust my 328i (which could in turn, easily dust a 325i). I was sold.

    The only remaining issue was which body style, I was tempted to keep the 328i for a year or two longer and upgrade to the E60 5-Series (which was then thought to have a debut date in late 2002 or very early 2003), however, I REALLY did not like the look of the Spy Photos available at the time. In fact, I am still not too fond of the (now softened) look, and much prefer the classic lines of the E39. So I decided to order my 530i to coincide with a trip to Europe that my wife and I were planning.

    As for specific likes when compared to the E46. Other than the performance, looks and extra back seat room already mentioned, I have compiled a list of items and how they compare, in my subjective opinion:

    I like the steering in the 530i better, that said, I did not have the SP on the 328i
    I like the 5-Series Premium Audio a lot better than the 3-Series Harman Kardon system
    My wife LOVES the dual climate control that does not exist in the 3-Series
    The 5-Series has a FAR more comprehensive "Trip Computer"
    The seats in the 530i are far better than the comparable 3-Series SP seats

    Then there are the little things, like when driving the E46, and you cross the temperature threshold south of 38 degrees, the car "Dings" you to let you know of that fact, and then (unless you catch it in time), it changes your dash display to show you the OAT. Grrrr. On the 5-Series, there is MUCH more display area, which is split between the Speedo area and the top of the Audio Panel display, so, when you cross that magic threshold, you are "Dinged" once, and no displays change. I know that this is a stupid little issue, but I cannot tell you how much aggravation that it caused me, and how GLAD I am that my 530i does not do that.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Just so that there is no misunderstanding, when I stated that I saved money on the sales tax because I obtained my car via the ED program, I am not saying that I did not pay sales tax.

    Given that my negotiated price of $42,380 was $5,215 less than the MSRP of $47,395, I saved $312.90 (savings of $5,215 multiplied by 6% New Jersey sales tax).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    I noticed that the alarm for the vehicle is dealer accessory. Does that mean that it is an additional payment to get an alarm system , or is it in the prep. What about an alarm for the time spent with the auto in Europe?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    The 3-Series has a built-in "Anti-Theft" system, and is "Alarm Ready". You can buy the alarm system fairly inexpensively from http://www.circlebmw.com ($225.00) or http://www.pacificbmw.com ($232.05) and according to owners who have done the work, the installation can be done in an hour for those who work on cars a lot, and under two hours for those who do not.

    The 5-Series comes equipped with the alarm right from the factory.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    Thanks for the info. Is the anti theft system to kill the engine? I guess the old lights & horn blasting comes with the alarm system. Will they install one at the factory for a price, and is it the prudent thing to do if I am going to drive for a couple weeks over there? By the way, do you know of any dealers in the South Florida area(Ft.Lauderdale,Palm Beach) which are friendly to ED Thanks in advance. Kevin
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Per the BMW 3-Series manual:

    "Your BMW is equipped with a passive anti-theft system. This electronic immobilization system is designed to reduce the susceptibility of the vehicle to theft by making it impossible to start the engine using any means other than the special keys furnished with the vehicle. Your BMW center can cancel the electronic system authorization for individual keys (in the event of loss, for instance). A deactivated key can no longer be used to start the engine."

    As far as I know, there is no way to get the alarm system installed in your 3-Series from the factory, that said, it never hurts to ask. The question is; do you REALLY NEED IT? After all, unless you are driving into central and southern Italy or Greece, you are probably going to be in areas that have far less crime and car theft than where you live right now. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

    Sorry, given that I am one of those folks that actually LIKES Snow, Ice and Cold Weather, Florida is a place that, on the rare occasion that I am actually there, I suffer greatly in the heat. As such, I am not a good resource regarding the dealerships down there. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ipatty13ipatty13 Posts: 47
    I purchased and self-installed an alarm on my 2003 330i in January, while in Germany. It took about one hour--ONCE I got ahold of the proper tools ;-) . The delivery center said it was impossible to have it installed by the factory before delivery. I do NOT recommend having a dealer install it (either in Germany or US), because it's a relatively easy DIY job.

    One thing to keep in mind is that your alarm will not function until a dealer fficially "activates" it, which only can happen post-installation.

    I went to great pains to determine the cost for activation in Germany. After speaking with a technician at the dealership near the ED Center, I learned they would charge approx. 30 Euro for activation. He said just to show up during business hours; no aptmnt needed. But, I ran out of time and never got back to the dealership to activate the alarm (I'm having this done as soon as the car arrives in the States).

    I agree with Shipo that there is no need for the alarm, unless you're traveling to a high theft area, such as italy. Even then, do you think a determined car thief will be dissuaded by an alarm?

    Even so, at 192.50 Euro (incl tax), the alarm generally is cheaper to buy in Germany (not much now, though, due to the exchange rate). So, I'd say buy it in Europe while you're there and get it activated in the US.
  • 330iii330iii Posts: 71
    In the latest issue of Motor Trend(C6 Corvette on cover) they are saying the Performance package will be $3900 does anyone have invoice figures?
  • invoice on the performance package (ZHP) is supposed to be $3550.
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    I am from NY,so I was always a snow guy too! Going up to Vermont & Hunter to ski!! Now, I stay warm and play golf!! Thanks for the info. I happened to call a dealer today ,and they said that they only work off the ED msrp. I will have to scout around. I'll keeep you informed. Kevin
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Just prior to the point where I formally started shopping (all 5 minutes of it) for my 530i, I was back at the dealership where I bought my 1999 328i so that they could tell me what I already knew, I needed brakes. While my car was being looked at, I went upstairs to kick a few tires. The salesman that I had worked with on the 328i had been promoted, and was no longer working the sales floor. I was assigned to Mr. Slick, and while I was shaking his hand, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. Uh Oh!

    I told him that I was considering a 530i through the ED Program. He asked me what options I was looking for, and he promptly configured a car (with my help) on the BMWUSA.com web site, printed it out, and handed me the sheet saying, "There is the price." Ummm, I was very sure that I had told him that I wanted to get the car via the ED Program, and just to make sure, I told him again. His response was, "Well, that will save you a couple of bucks, but it's not really worth it. You're much better off buying a car here, that's what I would do if I were you."

    I was totally blown away; this guy was so arrogant that he felt he could tell what I should do and how to do it. Needless to say, I split.

    A week or two later, he called me and asked me if I had decided what I wanted to do. I told him that I was going to order an ED 530i, and I hinted that I was looking to pay less than ED MSRP. Mr. Slick seemed to get all bent out of shape, and told me that his dealership did not bargain on any cars, much less ED cars, which were already discounted.

    I have to tell you, this man was a fool, because all he had to do was look at the file he had in his hand (where he got my phone number from) to find out that I had gotten a "Deal" on my 328i, from his dealership, and in the first few "Hot" months of production no less.

    A week later, I called another dealership just down the road (literally) from the first one, and within 5 minutes, had a $1,500 over ED Invoice deal. Funny thing, on the day that I signed the final paperwork, which was one month prior to ED Pickup, I saw Mr. Slick walking around the showroom floor of my new dealership. What's up with that?

    Two months later, I found out. Mr. Slick had been canned and was now selling used cars at my new dealership. ;-)

    That was a long way of suggesting that you call around a little, and even ask to speak to the Sales Manager of the dealership that already rejected your offer. I'm betting that if I had dealt with any other sales person at dealership #1, I would have gotten a better price.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    I appreciate your response and your knowledge or the ED program. One (of many)question I have is the price of the options. Some say that the price for the options is the same as if it were purchased here. Others say it is at wholesale, some say MY option prices. For instance, the price of the premium package for the 325cic is listed as $800. on the MSRP page;but $730 on the confidention wholesale price. Is everything based on the wholesale page or MSRP? I am figuring on the Base ED of $36,900, pluse the wholesale options. Am I correct in my thinking?
         Thanks again, Kevin
  • loubctloubct Posts: 39
    kevinjs. Use the confidential wholesale price for everything (car and options). In your example use the $730 for PP.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I calculated my deal in the following manner, and it matched the number my salesman came up with, to the penny. ;-)

    325Cic MSRP w/Premium Package
    $36,700 -- USA POE
    $01,700 -- Premium Package
    $00,695 -- Destination & Handling
    ========
    $39,095 -- Total MSRP

    325Cic ED MSRP w/Premium Package
    $34,130 -- Munich Pickup
    $01,700 -- Premium Package
    $00,695 -- Destination & Handling
    ========
    $36,525 -- Total ED MSRP

    325Cic ED Invoice w/Premium Package + $1,500 Dealer Profit
    $31,060 -- Munich Pickup
    $01,545 -- Premium Package
    $00,695 -- Destination & Handling
    $01,500 -- Dealer Profit
    ========
    $34,800 -- Total ED Invoice + $1,500 Dealer Profit

    This last one (adjusting the dealer profit to suit your situation) is the one that you want to use for your offer, and the MAX you should have to pay (with the exception that some metro area require a MACO charge on ED cars as well) for the car. TTL and dealership paperwork charges (to process the TTL) are of course extra.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    Anyone have any positive results with a dealer in South Florida(Ft.Laud. or Palm Beach).Looking to hack out a deal for the 2004 325cic.
    _loubct; thanks for the info. Kevin
  • loubctloubct Posts: 39
    Shipo. Your prices are for 2003. 2004 325CIC Base is 31,570 ED invoice. PP cost is accurate. $1500 dealer profit is doable.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Oops, sorry. Here is the layout for a 2004, per EuroBuyers:

    325Cic ED Invoice w/Premium Package + $1,500 Dealer Profit
    $31,570 -- Munich Pickup
    $01,545 -- Premium Package
    $00,695 -- Destination & Handling
    $01,500 -- Dealer Profit
    ========
    $35,310 -- Total ED Invoice + $1,500 Dealer Profit

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kevinjskevinjs Posts: 19
    Can someone please inform me what the Rizzo method is?
  • 1violinist1violinist Posts: 338
    kevinjs,

    The Rizzo method is basically a clever way for you to get the best deal on the car you want to buy. It follows a number of simple steps:

    1) Collecting the info about the car, including dealer's invoice, options invoice price, etc.;
    2) Writing down the specs of the car you want, including the invoice price of all options, destination charge, taxes and fees, and adding a reasonable dealer's profit ($1,500);
    3) Contacting several dealers with your offer by fax or phone;
    4) Sorting out dealers' responses to pick up the best offer.
    5) Confirming the total price with the dealer before you go down get your new car!

    For more details, please check this site:

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html

    Good luck!
    Tony
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Back in 1998 when I was shopping for my next new car, Mr. Rizzo (I'm thinking that his first name is Frank) of "Rizzo Method" fame was a regular on the VW Passat discussion here in the TownHall, and like him, I was also in the market for a 1999 Passat GLX 5-Speed. Given that I was currently driving a 1995 VR6 Passat GLX 5-Speed, I thought that the new GLX would be perfect, however, in VW's infinite wisdom; they decided to eliminate the 5-Speed option for the GLX for that model year only (it was available in 1998 and again in 2000). What's up with that?

    Long story short, I found that the 328i had all of the features that I wanted, was in plentiful supply (VERY few Passat GLXs were imported for 1999, regardless of transmission) AND its monthly lease cost was something like $8.00 more per month! When I posted that, Mr. Rizzo and at least a half a dozen other Passat GLX 5-Speed hopefuls jumped ship and got the 3-Series instead. It was at that point that our discussions of how to shop for the BMW gelled into the "Rizzo Method".

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 1violinist1violinist Posts: 338
    Considering your experience, BMW European Delivery should be called "The Shipo Method". :-)

    Thanks for your valuable insights.
    Tony
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