2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

kyfdx · May 2005

A completely stripped 325i with no options is $30K and has an invoice price of $27,520... If you bought at invoice minus the $2500 incentive, you are at $25K..

A realistic price, considering MACO, etc.. is probably $26K, though you may get a few hundred under that.. I doubt any BMW dealer is going to sell a new car for a loss... Some may think that a stripped model is a hard sell, but there are many buyers looking to get into a BMW at the lowest possible price and those cars aren't as hard to sell as one might think.

regards,
kyfdx

amt7565 · May 2005

Kyfdx-
Is there not a WHOLESALE price as well which is lower than the INVOICE price? Don't the dealers purchase the vehicles at wholesale price and not invoice price?

AMT-

kyfdx · May 2005

Umm.... No..

mathew1 · May 2005

Hi Everyone,

I am shopping for a 2005 325xi with automatic only and no other options in Boston area. Is a price of $30400 reasonable or can I do better. I am looking to close quicky and your help is appreciated in helping me understand if this is a good deal. I am aware that there is $1500 factory special for the dealers and that 2006 model change is occuring as well.

Thx.

Mathew

kyfdx · May 2005

That is about $1500 over cost... You may be able to get another $500-$1000 off that at maximum.. Your price is decent... I'd be really happy with another $500 lower..

veeka · May 2005

The DEMO 05 330xi has MSRP of 42, 120. The deal for the DEMO CAR with 2,500 miles on it was 34,500. The dealer started negotiations with 35, 900.
Keep in mind this is a Demo car, the history of it is questionable. It has never been registered, the dealer claims "his manager drives it to+from work." But I am very skeptical of what the Demo car means, since there is not much information on it.

I was getting a deal on a NEW (not a demo) car 330 xi with all the same options for 35, 900, so I don't believe I am getting a good deal on this Demo..????
thanks

kyfdx · May 2005

Yeah.. for a $1400 difference, I'd take the new one.. The demo has probably been put in service already, as well... eating up some of the warranty time..

That said, 2500 is a pretty low mileage for a demo... Their price is fair, but I'd want the new one...

alebrady · May 2005

I am totally new to the world of bmw (and in fact, leasing in general and this forum) but was hoping i get some help/insights.

I am looking at leasing a 2005 325ci. MSRP is about 39,xxx (sport, premium packages, manual, graphite metallic, leather).

I was trading in a $3000 accord and 'drive off' costs were $1000. 12k miles for 36 months.

Monthly payments were negotiated 'down' to 390/month.

How would you rate this deal?

thanks a lot - and if more info is needed let me know because i would like to get help in evaluating this deal.

Thanks!

PS what would be an average and excellent monthly payment (with the same options and downpayment, etc as above) on the 330ci?

srwade · May 2005

Just wondering if this is a decent price. I think that it is but may be a little on the high end.

1997 318i Convertible, 78,000 original miles, Mint condition - not one ding, scratch or rock chip. Garage stored all of its life and only driven in summer. Price I'm paying is $12,500.

Thoughts?

newbiemw · May 2005

Hi ..this is my first time on here..and I am a newbie to BMW. I just bought a 1995 325IS with almost 78,000 miles for $7500. I think I did REALLY well on the price. It is in immaculate condition in and out. Red with tan interior, automatic. no traction control. So is this a good deal?

Also, this car has timing chain right? Does it need to be changed? Someone said water pump would need to be changed around 80,000 is this true? Thanks!!

labuyer · May 2005

That does sound like the very high (deep?) end.

Is that a dealer price or a private party? I'm not personally convinced it should matter, but dealer prices are higher. If it is a private party, I don't suspect anything higher than $11k would be justifiable, based on Edmunds' pricing report.

How do you know it was only driven in summer? If that is true, it was driven 9,750 miles each summer.

labuyer · May 2005

I'll let someone more knowledgeable about current leasing chip in on that front, but a couple of basic things about leasing (or buying, for that matter) --

1. Know the price you're paying for the car. That is absent from your post. I had to add a lot more options than sport/premium/metallic/leather to get to $39k MSRP. Then trying to back the numbers out from there, given a $4000 cap-cost reduction, I figure your price on the car is $37,000-ish. Sounds high to me, maybe MSRP less the $2500 incentive.

2. The MSRP is a sham price, especially with the mfr to dealer incentives on 2005 3-series. Start your negotiations from invoice price less any incentives.

3. Trading in is almost always a raw deal. Remember the dealer is going to wholesale your Accord at an auction and make a profit, and the dealer who buys it at the auction is going to resell it again at a profit. Figure the car is worth at least $1,000 - $2,000 more than what you're being offered. People say they don't want "the hassle" of selling a car themselves, so they trade it in, but personally I'd prefer not to toss a couple grand in the trash. If you spend 10 hours showing it to buyers until it's sold, that's $100-$200 per hour for "the hassle."

oliverx · May 2005

I just bought a 325i with only the automatic option recently. It was very difficult to find the ones without expansive options in the NY area. Plus there are very few 2005 325i left. The $2500 incentive is scheduled to end today. So act now. I think the realistic price is around $26K if you can find one.

swl2579 · May 2005

I just came across this message board. The new 2006 3 series is definitely eye candy to me, but a 2005 would be more realistic and affordable, I'm concluding. I am wondering what a typical lease payment might be for the 2006 vs the 2005? I'm interested in very few options, but need automatic. I have until July before I have to turn in my current leased GM vehicle. I'm wondering if there will be any really good deals on the current 2005 325i bmw's in July?? What would be a realistic $ figure to start negotiations at? Also, is it already too late to put in an order for the 2005 model since the 2006 is already released?
Any suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

squirtdad · May 2005

Any info on if the incentives will continue? The 2005 inventory is going down rapidly from what I can see.....and as I waffle on buy or wait... i've seen at least one "close to perfect cart" disappear.

thanks

alebrady · May 2005

labuyer,

thanks - in addition to the packages/options listed above, the car also has (heated front seats, adaptive headlights, enhanced sound system - which results in an msrp of 39,295. I guess i am confused because i am trying to use the edmunds lease calculator to estimate payments and when i put in all the data it results in a payment + tax of over $620. This sounds too high? Even though my 390/month did not include tax if you factor that in the lease calculation is almost 200 higher than the offer.

maybe im not doing something right???

kyfdx · May 2005

So, does your trade-in cover your drive-off costs, or are you paying $1000 at lease signing in addition to your trade?

Does the $390/mo. include tax?

Also, no incentives on the coupes other than favorable money factors and residuals..

regards,
kyfdx

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

i was paying 1000 at drive-off in addition to my trade-in. they had quoted me, originally, 1800 drive-off in addition to my trade-in but the final deal was my trade-in+1000 drive-off.

390/mo was without taxes - about 422/mo total.

what do you think?

kyfdx · May 2005

Using the base rates, I impute an $1800 discount from MSRP.. Not a bad deal.. I'd be happier with another $500-$800 less.... That would drop the payment by $15-$24/month...

regards,
kyfdx

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

thanks! i was thinking that it was an 'ok' deal - not great but not bad either and it looks like that is what you are saying as well.

do you have any idea what payments for the same deal and options but on a 330ci would be?

also, what MF and residual did you use to back into 1800 off msrp? are the MF and residuals fixed for both 330ci and 325ci? what about the '05 sedans? what would they be for those models?

thanks again for your help!

kyfdx · May 2005

Residual was 59%, money factor .0010...

Hard to say on the 330ci.. You'd have to figure a hypothetical MSRP, first..

Sedan lease numbers aren't as good, even taking into account the big dealer cash incentives..

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

how about an '05 330ci with msrp of $42,570?

I am a little bit confused about how to evaluate the attractiveness of a lease. the MSRP is fixed, the cap cost seems negotiable (this would reflect whatever 'discount' you are able to get off msrp, correct?), the MF appears to be not fixed (??? - what determines the level of the MF? is there a range by model?? - i assumed it was 'fixed' by BMW similar to how an interest rate is somewhat 'fixed'), and the residual which appears to be fixed.

I am confused because if the MF can vary on a lease by lease or deal by deal basis how can you ever figure out what reduction off MSRP you are getting - and thus figure out if Lease Deal A is better than Lease Deal B?

Do my naive questions make any sense?:(

kyfdx · May 2005

For the 330ci.. with about a $2K discount from MSRP, figure about $25/mo. more than the 325ci..

MSRP is fixed..
Selling price is negotiable
Residual is a % of MSRP, and that is fixed by the bank.
Base money factor (aka "buy rate") is fixed by the bank. However, they permit the dealer to mark up the money factor by up to .0004 (resulting in the "sell rate").

Captive finance companies will sometimes use artificially low money factors and/or artificially high residuals to make cars more financially attractive, without having to lower the price.. That is why you see so much variance in the numbers.

The conventional wisdom is that you negotiate the selling price first... then figure the lease numbers.. When you have a trade-in, that tends to complicate things, as it does with any purchase..

regards,
kyfdx

weno2 · May 2005

Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of incentives for May?

dl7265 · May 2005

April went thru 05/02 they should know something tomorrow.

DL

mathew1 · May 2005

Hi kyfdx,

Thanks for your feedback. I did close a deal near Boston area for a 2005 xi with automatic for around $30,400. The dealer gave the heated seats options with the same price. I called around and apparently due to BMW releasing the xi version only next year, the cars are pretty much sold out.

--Mathew

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

thanks a lot that helps clear things up for me!!

When you used a MF of .001 on the 325ci calc you gave me before i assume this was without the .0004 markup that would be possible?

is there anywhere to get base MF rates by model (without the markup)??

thanks again!

amt7565 · May 2005

I am hoping for additional incentives as well.
I went last weekend to get a 2005-330i. It had an MSRP of $42,200.00. (I also test drove the 2006 325i. )

Dealer asked me what it will take me to buy the 2005 330i right there right now. I said $33K- LOL. He was visibly upset. I walked off.

kyfdx · May 2005

Yes.. .0010 is the base rate for the 325Ci...

.0008 for the 330Ci..

I assumed the base rate to impute your selling price... so, if they were marking up the rate, then the selling price would have to be lower to come up with the same payment.. either way, the effective result is an $1800 dollar discount from MSRP..

regards,
kyfdx

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

excellent -- one last question. where are you able to get the base rates from? can i assume that these are the base rates that any BMW dealer would be dealing from (or should be dealing from) for the specific models?

Actually, i guess these are really the last questions:) do you know the base rates on the '05 325/330 sedans and the '06 models?

you've been a big help and i really appreciate it!!

kyfdx · May 2005

The base rates are set by BMWFS.. The dealer can add up to .0004 to increase his profit..

'05 sedans have base money factor of .00225

'06 sedans have base money factor of .00265

All of those numbers expired yesterday, though.. We usually don't find out the new numbers until later in the week.. (though the dealers get them today).

alebrady · May 2005

what is the volatility like on the base rates month-to-month...just in a ballpark sense?

kyfdx · May 2005

Usually, very low volatility, unless they are using the rates to incentivize sales..

alebrady · May 2005

great, thanks kyfdx!

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

well, i did find out that the may coupe MF are unchanged (at least thats what 2 dealers told me).

I was hoping you could clear up some ambiguity i have around "drive-off" costs (since i hear dealers talk about them in different ways). i was thinking of drive-off costs as essentially a fixed cost of leasing the car (flexible in that a portion of it is related directly to your negotiated monthly payment and the tax on this) including 1st month+tax+fees, etc.

But some dealers seem to consider the drive-off as fixed and say they cant do anything to alter them (other than the monthly payment aspect of it) while others dealers seem to be more flexible on what the drive-off will be (is this because these dealers are including whatever they knockoff the drive-off costs to the capital costs that you are paying over the course of the lease)?

Should i be considering the drive-off costs as a further downpayment (in addition to my trade-in) when running numbers through a lease calculator or should i exclude the drive-off costs and view them as a fixed cost that i will have to pay regardless of my deal?

hopefully, my confused question makes sense!:)

kyfdx · May 2005

Drive-off cost... or due at signing.. should include:

1st payment
Security deposit
License/title fees required by state..

Cap cost (aka amount financed) should include:

Selling price
Acquisition fee

That is it.. no "downpayment" (aka cap cost reduction), no advertising or destination fees, no dealer prep or document fees..

If you have a trade-in, have them put an actual cash value on it (ACV), and cut you a check for it, minus any amount owed on the trade.. Then write a check for the drive-off costs..

regards,
kyfdx

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

I have been looking for an '05 330ci as opposed to the 325ci we have been talking about. its been difficult to find in the configuration i want but one dealer had a 330ci with performance package. with other options the msrp came to $47,170

his offer was my trade ($3000) + 1700 drive-off/ 36 mos/ 12k mi:

499/mo without tax

like the other deal, this one doesnt seem bad but not great either - agree?

I was thinking that if it was close to 450/mo without tax that would be a good deal - agree?

amt7565 · May 2005

Just checked Edmunds for the incentives. Incentives for 330i ($4200) and the 325i($2500) have been extended till 5/31.

AMT-

kyfdx · May 2005

Wow... 47K for a 330Ci? You'll have the most expensive one on the planet.. That deal doesn't sound so good.. I'd rather have the $39K 325Ci you were looking at... That is a decent deal.. can probably get a little more knocked off with a solid offer.. that is the way I would go...

regards,
kyfdx

alebrady · May 2005

kyfdx,

thanks - im thinking im going to do the 325ci as well - unless i am able to find a 330ci with a starting msrp around 42,000.

hscinoh · May 2005

i am in the cincinnati area, ohio. i visited two local bmw dealers (the only two in the area), both were adamant that they only sell 06 325i at msrp. please advise.

kyfdx · May 2005

Cincinnati is a tough market for BMWs... If you pressed the issue, Sweeney is more likely to discount..

How about Voss in Centerville? South side of Dayton... off exit 44 on I-75... They may be more likely to deal, and that is only about 30 miles away...

regards,
kyfdx

hscinoh · May 2005

kyfdx, thanks so much for the info. Do you think the situation will get better if i wait a while, when the new model is no longer a novelty?

Another question, if i get a car from a far away dealer, do i have to take it back to the same dealer for service, or i can bring it to a local one? (a local dealer is only about 2 miles from where i live.) regards, hs

kyfdx · May 2005

Yes.... I think once they have stock for sale at the dealers, the prices will come down...

I bought my car used in Chicago, and I take it to The BMW Store for service... no problem getting loaners or anything else... It is on my way to work...

regards,
kyfdx

skimo · May 2005

Kyfdx,

I just noticed a "lease dea" on the BMWUSA website for the 06 325i. Wandering what are the new MF and Residuals for MAY for the 325i. I already negotiated a price and put a deposit on the car... but if the MF has changed, I will go back to the dealer !! I was using 0.00265 for my deal.

Thanks
Skimo

woodyww · May 2005

Anyone know availability, & incentives on '05 3-series Touring (wagons)? New England area. TIA!

weno2 · May 2005

Today, I went to a dealership to see if they had any 325i or 330i Bimmers in stock. The dealer had zero 325i and only two 330i, but convinced me to test drive an 06 325i (had a premium package and heated seats). Comment was why buy an 05 330i when you can get an 06 325i, for about the same price.

I had to get used to the look, but once I drove the 06, I was hooked! I plan on buying a car this month, but I wonder if it's worth getting an 05 325ix (still some in the Chicagoland area), an 05 330i (saw one w/a sticker of $38K but the incentive should drop the price to around $35K), or get an 06 325i (I want to say the sticker was around $36K - but dealer may accept around $35K).

I'm one of those who keeps their cars for ten years, and the last two cars I bought (86 Acura Integra LS and 92 Acura Vigor GS), was during the first model year.

Would appreciate any feedback.

derfo · May 2005

I ordered a 325i for my wife, due here last of June, with premium and auto for $34077.00. Which is $1500.00 over invoice. Could have bought it about $200.00 cheaper, but 50 miles away. My dealer is very close, with a very good Rep!!

amt7565 · May 2005

I test drove the 06 325i as well as the 2005 330i.
If I were you, I would get the 2005 330i. Better response and power! Ofcourse, the dealer would only encourage you to get the new models because of the higher profit margins. But it all comes down to how you like each car. For me the 330i was much better.

Remember, for the 2005, you should get between $6K and $7.5K off MSRP depending on the cost of the car.

Now regarding you driving the car for 10 years, that is something I am not sure on the German cars. The Japanese cars are very reliable(like the ones you have owned), but the BWM is know to have reliability issues. So you might want to research on the "BMW owners, Problems and Solutions" section in these forums.

Good luck!
AMT-

alebrady · May 2005

i am going thru the process of deciding which 3 series to lease. aside from the deal i am able to work out i am wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the relative merits of the '05 325ci, 330ci, and 330ci w/performance package.

I have been able to test drive the 325ci but the only 330 i have been able to test drive is the '06 330i. How would the '05 330ci with and without performance package compare to the 325ci and the '06 330i (since those would be my 'benchmarks'). I am mostly concerned with the tradeoff between comfort of ride and performance that may exist with the 330ci (with and without performance package since i understand the performance package has a more aggressively tuned suspension).

also, any thoughts on whether the performance package is worth the money it takes to get the upgrade (realizing this is fundamentally a personal choice). Also, is the 330ci without performance substantially more performance than the 325ci?

thanks in advance!

2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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