Welcome, Toyota Tundra

volfy · June 1999

From an engineering point of view, I consider brake proportioning valves to be essential and ABS a secondary safety device. The marketeers hyped ABS as much as airbags and duped the public into a false sense of security. The weakest link in any emergency situation is the lump of biological mess behind the wheel. Proper driver education is a much more effective "option" to select when buying a vehicle than any of the "safety" devices. My $0.02 cents on a soap box.

rwellbaum2 · June 1999

Just bought a Tundra 4WD access cab. paid 27100 At Eugene Oregon lithia Toyota. Anyone get a better deal? If so where?

hindsite · June 1999

Congrats Travis on your new truck.

quadrunner500 · June 1999

I saw the same Toyota ad that you did, hyping a stronger frame.

The problem is, like so many others, you seem to be relying on all your information from ONE source. Better wait until the facts are out.

As for 4 piston brakes, they've been around for at least 15 years that I'm aware of. Nothing revolutionary there, except in matching them with old fashioned rear drums may be a first.

What features? No tow/haul, no Autotrack, no 100,000 mile maintenance, no limited slip, no automatic headlamps, no rear disc brakes, but you do get a one size fits all truck that gets worse gas mileage and steel from Japanese mills. Who loves 'ya baby?

spoog · June 1999

why dont chevy, ford and dodge offer 4 piston caliper brakes? They dont. Its an industry first.

ront2 · June 1999

Lets face it, nobody buys a four wheel drive full size pickup if there worried about gas mileage. If you can afford the price of any new 4x4 these days , you shouldn't be worried about the price of a gallon of gas.....shezzzzz........!
Fords, Chevs and Dodge pickups have never been known for there great gas mileage, if the Tundra can get 18 theres nothing wrong with that.
As far as reliability goes, I have driven US autos /trucks for 18 years and Japan built autos/trucks for the past 12 years. Since I have made the switch I have been just about able to retire my tool box. Sorry, but it is the truth.

citroen7 · June 1999

GM frames have hydroformed front rails, roll-formed mid-rails, 10,500 lb rated rear rails, tubular crossmembers(resist twisting).The new larger cab is 60% stronger(tested to 23HZ). The all new disc brakes have the largest disc on any full size pickup, even larger, by 40%, than the nearest competitors. The new headlights have 380 feet range low and 600 feet high beam range. The new driver message center has 18 vital vehicle functions, plus a transmission temperature gauge, engine hour meter(hours logged not just miles run), battery rundown protection(interior and cargo lights automatic), extra-wide radiator and aluminum-bodied high capacity pump, autotrac automatic 4WD,new electrical center, reduces the number of splices by 94% to just six, plugging in auxiliary electronics i.e. snow plow and trailer lighting is easy. Five suspension choices. Prewired 7-pin trailer connectors. Imported part percentage is listed on window stickers. Mine says 90% U.S. made. Ford gave 5000 dollar bonus checks last year. What did the happy non-union toy workers get.

spoog · June 1999

What is all that crap you listed?

If the Silverados brakes are so good, why does the Tundra outbrake it by 20 feet? lol.
Your headlight range is a joke. I had a 1990
22re Toyota that had that range, and then some.
And my lights were STRAIGHT, not pointing at the sky like so many chevys. My Tacoma seems to be about the same, with a little bit less high beam intesnity.

Driver message center? What the heck is that.
I dont think Chevy should be adding any more electrical doo-dads since it is WELL documented
they dont know how to produce a reliable electrical system.

more crap:

"), batteryrundown protection(interior and cargo lights
automatic), extra-wide radiator "

Was this new radiator put in cause the old one always overheated?

"and aluminum-bodied
high capacity pump, autotrac automatic 4WD"\

AA4wd. Sounds like another gimmick.
I'll take a solid lever on the floor thank you.
I dont think its wise for Chevy to be making electrical auto 4wd when they cant get an electrical system right.

,
"new
electrical center, reduces the number of splices by
94% to just six, "

The reason this got revamped was because the other system was a mess. lol. Out of all the trucks I see/have seen in the woods, Chevies were by far the most stranded, mainly due to electrical problems.

volfy · June 1999

"Primative rear shoe braking system," huh? And what might you call the GM pushrod engines?

Evaluate the whole vehicle as a package. One can pick apart and bash ANY pickup out there if one hates it enough. There is nothing wrong with using old technology if the cost savings is plowed right back into making it a better vehicle elsewhere and as a whole value package. Toyota has one design philosophy, GM has another. I happened to think both succeeded but cater to slightly different clientele. You, obviously, are not what Toyota had in mind. Buy GM, and be happy.

BTW, would you like to expound on the engineeering implications of "tested to 23Hz"?

quadrunner500 · June 1999

Sounds like you have a problem with technology. The funny thing is, you think you are getting more of it in the Tundra. Oh well.

Only reason Tundra outbrakes the Silverado is because it weighs less.

Ront, I pay attention to fuel economy ratings because it comes out of my wallet. Besides, the Tundra 4x4 doesn't get 18 anyway, if you believe EPA. Most people don't care right now, true enough. But I was around in '73 and '78 when prices shot up. Where is OPEC when you need them?

citroen7 · June 1999

23Hz is the frequency that the highy rigid architecture is tested to. Others will squeak and rattle and loosen up much sooner. Again this new GM truck is a much better engineer vehicle than the toy. GM does have 97 years experience. Toys are toys. Since their very beginnings and I go back to the 18RC engine, Hilux model, early 70s until the T100 owning 7), they have built them to last just about the same time the frame and bodies either rust or fall apart(70-100K). We have some huge dismantler yards here and I tell you they have dozens of toys crashed and with bad motors, (many burnt ones from poor electrical systems) and they only go back 7 model years and their crushed. All the GM improvements are to make the thing easy to work on and prevent repairs, i.e. message center that reports low oil, gas, oiltemp and oil pressure, etc, GM engineering spent many years on the R&D, the market being so competitive now. I just wish prospective toy buyers would be objective and drive all the trucks without the salesman, talk to owners of all the new trucks, and you will reach the same opinon I did. Buy a GMC and be happy.

volfy · June 1999

Hmm... my understanding of "tested to 23Hz" is that the cab frame structure by itself has a first natural resonance peak at 23Hz. While this IS impressive, I'm more impressed when it applies to a monocoque chassis where the increase bending & torsional rigidity translate into less suspension geometry distortion under load and thus better handling. The Audi A8 aluminum chassis is a prime example of this. As it applies to a pickup cab, the major benefits are limited to a quieter cab with less squeaks and rattles as you descirbed. Whether it contributes to a safer cab depends on the impact absorption design. The S-10/Sonoma is a good example of a design rigid in the wrong places, resulting in undesirable cab deformation upon impact.

While I'm sure the Sierra/Silverado will fair better than the S-10/Sonoma, I see no evidence yet they necessarily perform better than the Tundra. We'll have to wait for independent safety institute test results to see. Personally, I have my concerns about the more-doors-the-better trend in pickups and minivans and the impact (pun intended) all these huge door openings have on chassis stiffness.

In looking at the previous posts, I have not come across a single Tundra buyer that haven't test driven products from other manufacturers and gave them serious consideration. If there are narrow-mindedness in this forum, I sure don't see 'em on the side of the "Toy" drivers.

volfy · June 1999

To be fair, Toyota does enjoy a reputation of having excellent mechanicals that far outlast the body to which they are attached. That's the nice way of saying: if you live up north, your Toyota will probably rust out way before the engine&tranny quit. :-)

Whether this is preferrable over a body that last through 3 major engine overhauls at 80,000 miles intervals is a personal call.

With the increased use of double galvanized body panels, though, Toyota bodies are now more apt to hang in there with the mechanicals.

citroen7 · June 1999

Its been funny that when I bought each of my toyota trucks through the 70s, 80s and to my last 95 T100 the salesman would say this one has rust prevention the others lacked, and each and every one began to go in the same places along the seams on the box, hinges and bolts on the fenders (always washed my trucks religiously). All my trucks ran when I sold them, some with over 200k(the diesels, their best engines)but the rust and just plain dangerous corrosion was a good reason to peddle them. Now I'm sure galvanized ones will hold up (porsche since 78) longer. At 25k they should be monocoque like the NSX. Of course when I bought my toyota trucks they were the only game in town well worth the 3k, 5k, 7k, etc. until the t100 was 12k after the 3500 rebate (needed to sell them then). Since they have been making them here I think the price is to high (and no 25% import tax now) and profits have increased. Greed has set in perhaps. Now without getting into any more pissing contests I'll end this with the hope that everyone out there gets a great deal or holds out for one. Don't be afraid to walk away from the sales manager. Remember their laughing at you the minute you drive away in the new truck. Approximately 13% mark up plus hold back and advertising so you can multiply the sticker by .83 and get the real invoice. Don't let anyone tell you different.

tboyden · June 1999

Hi everyone, well I must say it's a pretty good debate that will continually be on-going. I have been driving a GEO Tracker 4 DR 4 x 4 for the last 3 years, in that time I have also driven all the big 3's trucks (compact & full-size) for work. This is because we've been trying out vechicles to use for the company fleet. Basically the big 3 bite. Chevies, transmission and engine problems, Fords, the same, Dodges, under-powered and just plain junk. So I went to the local Toyota dealership on 6-26-99 and took a look at the Tundra, wondering what Toyota would come up with. BTW I owned an '87 Toyota PU before the GEO.
You know what? I bought the Tundra. To be exact, a fully loaded Tundra SR5 access-cab 4x4, V8, towing package, etc.. It was kinda a no brainer considering the dealer paid off my trade ($5000), gave me $6000 dollars for it, paid the sales tax for the Tundra and kept the lease (48 months, 20k) at $400 a month. Same monthtly payments as the GEO to buy. And to top it off no over mileage fees or any other fees as-long-as I trade it in or re-finance to buy at the end of the lease. Do you think you'd get that deal at the big 3's lots, I DON'T THINK SO! and after bringing it to work to line it up next to the big 3's big trucks, it's virtually the same size. It only looks smaller because it's not as boxy as the big 3. As-far-as gas mileage 175 highway miles, just under half a tank used. Pretty good for a V8. And reliability, time will only tell, but if it's as good as Toyotas before it, my recommendation to my boss is to start ordering Tundras.

hall2 · June 1999

I wanted a truck so I test-drive a Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado(loaded), Dodge Ram 1500, Tundra Access Cab, and a small Nissan Frontier V6 SE. I thought the Dodge handle as good as the Tundra but the Dodge is a large truck. The Nissan Frontier extended cab is only for the toolbox, so I bought a Tundra SR5 Access Cab 4x4 V8. I'm picking it up today. I like the ride.

volfy · June 1999

My definition:

Personal bias = shops around, likes a particular vehicle better than others.

Narrow-minded = precludes other makes and model regardless of merit.

I have been tried and convicted of the first charge and hereby enter a plea of innocent to the second.

Okay by me if you don't think much of my understanding of matters technical. This wouldn't be the first time. ;-) I'm always open to learn something new.

hindsite · June 1999

Good luck in your new truck.

Well, as I said earlier in another post I am look to buy a new full size pickup. I have the '94' 4x4 F150 and she has been fairly reliable. May consider the Tundra, but taking a open minded wait and see attitude.

quadrunner500 · June 1999

Ride for twenty miles in the back seat of Tundra, with time out for good behavior.

quadrunner500 · June 1999

Twenty minutes in back of Tundra = Cruel and Unusual punishment.

quadrunner500 · June 1999

Main thing is to enjoy your truck. Hope it's a good one.

spoog · June 1999

20 minutes in back of any extended cab pickup=

PUNISHMENT.

Since when was riding in an "extra cab" comparable to a front seat of a lexus?

They all are horribly cramped and punishing.
They are made for kids and pets.
geesh, get a clue.

volfy · June 1999

Actually, cruel and unusual punishment would be sitting in the "jump seat" of any compact ext. cab pickup. I'd already served my time in a colleague's S-10 extended cab on a lunch run. Said coworker was 6'2" and I was wedged in there so good I didn't need a seat. :-)

citroen7 · June 1999

There's plenty of room in the new GMC sierra. Also 4-wheel ABS disc brakes with dynamic brake proportioning (predictable linear response). In other words, it's designed to behave the same whether the truck is loaded or empty. A four wheel antilock brake system helps preserve steering control. Dynamic brake proportioning makes better use of the rear brakes by electronically modulating pressure for maximum effectiveness. Add eight hundred pounds of weight and see if the toy brakes 20 feet quicker. Or see if its still one second faster 0-60 weight being equal. Still who would want to own any truck 48 months. My bet is you'll trade sooner and loose big time in a penalty. I have been trading every one and a half years with the last three GMCs and its only cost me average $3500. Considering I've been driving them 60k plus miles each and I deduct mileage in taxes getting back my depreciation loss. Try trading the tundra a year from now. No, the only way would be to sell it privately and I have found only the dealers get near the average loan price used. Good luck toy owners.

1492 · June 1999

doea anyone own a tundra yet? which model? how much? Is it comfortable on 200-400 mile drives. Given your experience with the vehicle would you buy it today?

barlitz · July 1999

I can't believe that every one is still pissing and moaning about who's truck is better,I don't know who posted it but I looked for foriegn vehicles on the UNION job site I am on in Boston and out of all the cars and trucks I saw there were absolutely 0 foriegn, they may be big where you live but there not to big up here I happened to see one discounted 4000 in the paper and this is new england where the weather and elements are brutal you'd think everyone would want a big tough truck just maybe not the fundra

Toyota17 · July 1999

That might be how it is in Boston, but here in New York they are selling like hot cakes. I am a sales manager at a Toyota dealership in southern New York and we have been sold out with a waiting list scence June 1st!!!

spoog · July 1999

lol. Who cares what the majority of the people buy. Why is it that so many people equate
quality with quantity or units sold?
That is typical pop-culture-junkie mentality.

volfy · July 1999

Don't know about y'all but I don't base my purchase decisions on what makes Union labor happy, I buy what makes ME happy. If BUY AMERICAN is the only thing that can get folks to buy American trucks, then they can't compete in the long run anyways.

I certainly don't feel the need to knock other vehicles to make my choice seem wiser. All you Toyota bashers are starting to smell like sour grape to me. If I can't convince you your GM trucks are good enough to stand proud without smearing the new Toyota, maybe I should start picking on your rides, huh? :-)

citroen7 · July 1999

well I guess no one is reading or comprehension is failing. GM trucks are leading in resale value(fact NADA). In the south and west where trucks are king, toys are considered girls trucks and many girls do buy them there. Like a convertible BMW, a going away gift to your college bound daughter. I was looking at the tundra brochure and was amazed at how little information is actually there(are they hiding something or not much to tell). Mostly silly photos to appeal to the young. Photos of their trucks at construction sites. Come on! No contractor would ever consider one of these overprices car trucks for actual work. Their sales are hurting and are becoming another T100 debacle. Would a toyota sales manager admit poor sales (not in your life). There are three big toyota dealers in my area and all of them have a dozen loaded tundras (mostly white ones and only a couple 4x2 however(less profit?)Salesmen use the scam of rarity at all dealers. They can trade dealer to dealer and get you in one as soon as the next dealer can drive one there. There all liars, remember that going in to buy any vehicle in any dealership. Finally braking again, the time one hits the brake at 60mph (88feet per sec) where one tenth of a sec can make up or loose the 20 feet in an empty or loaded truck, so its all relative to reflexes anyway. The better ABS and 4 wheel disc system on the GM will allow you to steer while braking an avoid the accident.

tarver · July 1999

Just couldn't leave without a comment or two:

"Finally braking again, the time one
hits the brake at 60mph (88feet per sec) where one
tenth of a sec can make up or loose the 20 feet in
an empty or loaded truck, so its all relative to reflexes anyway"

What? So... relative to equal reflexes... the toyta still stops quicker. Seems simple enough to me.

Enjoy what you have, or trade it.

leew · July 1999

I test drove both a F-150 XLT and a somewhat comparably equipped Tundra tonight. Its a tough pick. The Ford dealers sounded alot more likely to deal on the price. "Around invoice" about 26K for a truck marked at 30K, and that had a few more "options/doo-hickies" than the Toyota did. The Toyota MSRP'ed at $28,616 with a mark up to 30. Though it sounded like the dealer was willing to drop the mark up. I'm leaning toward the Toyota but I really don't want to pay MSRP, especially when they might come down in price in a few months and I'll end up kicking myself in the [non-permissible content removed]. I own a 92 Toyota pickup now and have been very satisfied with its reliability. I fear the Ford my be a gamble in that regard.

Thanks for hearing me out folks. Time to call it a day. I'm trucked out.

Toyota17 · July 1999

You said earlier in a response: "Would a toyota sales manager admitpoor sales (not in your life)". So are trying to say I am lying! Maybe thats how it is in the "South-West", but as I said before they are a very hot truck up hear in the New York State area. I am not lying.

volfy · July 1999

leew, I know exactly what you mean. I've been looking at the F150 XL or Work Series as well. Man, Ford gives you a lot of truck for the money. No wonder they sell more trucks than Chevy/GMC combined. I own a '96 Tacoma (my first Toyota) and I'd like to stay with Toyota quality and get the Tundra in a few years. I keep all my vehicles for 5 years+. I usually pay cash for mine so a couple of thousand dollars is a big deal to me. If I do buy big three, it'll probably be F-150 and I'll probably just do a 2-year lease instead because of my lingering doubts about quality. Anyways, I'll wait and see what happens with the Tundra. My Tacoma is paid in full and hasn't given me a lick of trouble, so I can wait as long as I want.

quadrunner500 · July 1999

The only reason the Tundra stops quicker is because it's lighter. And then its advantage is on the dry. In the wet, or slippery conditions, it's lack of rear ABS might reverse the outcome.

quadrunner500 · July 1999

And actually, it only stopped quicker in one test, the one paid for by Toyota marketing. Better wait for the side by side comparos before getting hasty.

hindsite · July 1999

Barlitz,
Maybe there are no foreign cars or truck up there in Boston at your construction site. But here in NYC in the heart of Manhattan I have been to the hi-rise building construction sites that are union and have seen American and foreign cars & trucks. Likewise, also con- struction jobs in New Jersey, Connecticut, and Pennslyvania. Ditto the same for highway and bridge construction. Think you need to get the facts right.

hindsite · July 1999

Ford does give a lot of truck I have a 94 F150 4x4 5.0 SFI and have had the transmission rebuilt twice, bad AC compressor, AC leaks, brake problems, and electrical problems. It runs fine as long as you keep it parked a lot.

leew · July 1999

Your case sounds pretty common with Ford trucks. It's really sad, the F-150 trucks are wonderfully thought out vehicles in terms of human engineering and form. Its just too bad their reliability is so poor.

"runs fine as long as you keep it parked a lot."

That's a good one

It looks like I am going to take that full sized plunge and sign my life away and get a Tundra. The compact truck to full sized truck adjustment period ought'a be interesting.

present4u · July 1999

I have been looking for a vehicle to replace my aging 1990 Nissan 4x4 that I bought new in 1991 for $8500. That Nissan never left me stranded during the time I've owned it, and only cost me oil, gas, and a battery cable in nine years.

I now make a lot more money than I did when I thought $8500 was a lot to spend, so I started thinking about allowing my next purchase to approach the 30k mark. The only problem was, I couldn't decide if I wanted a car or a truck. I still enjoyed the fun of 4WD, but needed a bit more room that my simple Nissan offered. A friend's suggestion that I consider a crew-cab truck pointed me to GMC, Ford, and Dodge -- until I saw a TV commercial for a Tundra followed by a next day real-life sighting here in LA on the 405 freeway.

My brother -- a true mountain man -- curses Ford Motor Company to this day over his tragic relationship with a late-eighties F-350 4x4 Crew Cab 460 diesel that once stranded him in a 14' high Utah snowdrift because the ignition lock decided to break. Another time, I had to drive 100 miles to rescue him when a small CA emissions part failed and the F-350's computer put the truck into 'limp' mode until the dealer could fix it. He traded the cursed F-350 for $4500 on a new LandCruiser, and swore he'd disown me as a brother if I chose a Ford as my next vehicle -- all the while steering me toward the Tundra. I considered a Chevy, but another family friend had similar agonies that my brother did with his Ford, so GMC/Chevy was out. I did like the Dodge, but the salesman acted like an [non-permissible content removed] in front of me after I caught him in some outright lies -- so I left, never to return to another Dodge dealer.

Next was the Toyota dealership:

I found a black Tundra SR5 V8 4x4 loaded with almost all options and test drove it. It's as quiet as my girlfriend's high-end Lexus sedan! The power comes on *much* stronger than the 1.6l 4-banger I'm used to from my Nissan, but still bows down to the 1968 Chevelle SS 396 I own. Nice V8 growl when you get your foot in it, but it seems to suffer from some low-end lag. The power is there, but no crisp throttle control is evident under 1000 rpm. My Chevelle sure as Hell has *that*. Oh, well...

I would have bought that particular Tundra right then, but it unfortunately came with the hideous blue/gray cloth interior and blue dash plastic color scheme I loathe. I'm waiting for the Limited Access Cab with Oak leather trim to become available, although I did tell the dealer I test drove with that I'd accept the first Sunfire Red, Thunder Gray, or Black 4x4 V8 SR5 loaded with the Convenience package and ABS brakes as long as he'll do aftermarket leather for cost. He agreed, and I'll be trading my Nissan immediately at that time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I can't wait for the Tundra I want. I look at it as a cross between a LandCruiser and a Lexus with a truck bed thrown in. Call me a wanna-be city cowboy yuppie if you want, and I won't take it as an insult. That describes me perfectly. I'm not ashamed.

I've seen a lot of zealotry here on this board in regards to manufacturer and model, but I can understand it. People have preferences, and that's great -- My preference happens to be the Tundra.

Happy 4th of July, readers! Make sure your kids know what it means.

Toyota17 · July 1999

Believe me you are making the right decision!!!

volfy · July 1999

Happy 4th of July, indeed! Let's ALL remember what it means: freedom to pursue whichever pickup truck that makes you happy.

hindsite · July 1999

Happy 4th of July everyone

tbright · July 1999

My 82 Toyota took me 407,000 miles, driven hard & put away wet. I got 23.5 mpg with real gas and 21.5 with the phony MTBE stuff. I just changed oil every 2,000 and treated it to new shocks once a year. My only complaint was that it was cramped and NOISY. I had friends waiting for it --- our mechanic got the nod and gave us $1,500 without hesitation.

My 6-month-old T-100 now has 19,000. Riding shotgun, the wife is so far a away she can't whack me, and you can play ping-pong in the 8-foot bed, so the size is great. Fast or slow, the ride is a controlled float, and standard Michelins let me Boy Racer it through traffic. The automatic Four is kind of gutless, but I can't complain about 21-25 mpg. I have only one complaint: it's NOISY. Anybody gone from a 1979-95 series Toyota pickup to a T-100 to the Tundra? Is it any quieter?

citroen7 · July 1999

Don't give up on the GM. Be objective and Absolutely drive one of the new 99s before you spend hard earned cash on a gimpy, gutless, wonder you'll have problems selling later(small market for them). Your right about the low end, there isn't any. The new GMs have great leather interiors, tons more available GM and aftermarket accessories and all new vortec V8s starting with the 4.8 thats a lot more engine than the 4.7 toy. With 255 hp, but more importantly torque peaks at 4000 rpm (90% of peak from around 1200 rpm to nearly 500rpm-essential for a truck to provide outstanding towing and hauling), the toy peaks at almost 5k a dog when trailoring or even going up an average hill. The 5.3L V8 (270hp) pulls even better(a lot closer to your 396). These engines give long, flat torque curves and higher horsepower that won't run out of breath when you need it most. Plus better controlling ABS 4wheel disc brakes with brake proportioning, Autotrac,(the first automatic 4-wheel-drive system ever available on a full size truck), driver message center (displays 18 vital functions), trans temp gauge, choice of five suspension packages,and a lot more room to spare.

citroen7 · July 1999

thats 90% of peak from 1200 to 5000 rpm

spoog · July 1999

Hey, we already know the Tundra outbrakes
the Chevy , so whats the big deal about Chevy's brakes?

Sounds like you need to stop reading the Sales
brochure. And dont make me pull out the
Chevy Recall list.

citroen7 · July 1999

You must get over the 4 small piston toy brake theory. There are bikes with 8 even smaller piston brakes and the wheels don't lock up faster than the any large two piston system. Braking distance is a function of weight and the tire traction. The toys brakes are not controlled and you will not be able to steer out of the situation as with the new GM truck and Vette.

willbt · July 1999

Citroen7,
I own a 95 Chevy Z71 and am fed up with all the problems I've had with it and the incredibly poor support from the Chevy service folks. If all you want to do is praise Chevy, please go to the Chevy truck topic pages and try to sell Chevy trucks there. This is a Toyota Tundra forum. I'm trying to learn more about the Toyota Tundra here. If I want to hear about Chevy trucks I'll go elsewhere.

bregan · July 1999

Ok--its been a while since I have purchased a new vehicle (always bought used) and I'm a little rusty in tactics for the showroom. I've read all I can about Tundras,Rams,Dakotas,GMC's, etc and want a Tundra---now I keep reading dealers are getting msrp plus a grand and all kinds of ridiculous amounts...for those who have bought a Tundra--what was your experience? Were you able to negotiate from invoice? What if you ordered one, any more flexibility? Help this Tundra buyer not get too taken. Thanks

BRegan2070@aol.com

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