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Comments
This will be my fourth BMW, starting with a 1999 323i, then a 2003 325iT, and currently a 2004 X3 (through ED). I bought the last 2 through the same CA at my local dealer. I’d gotten good, no-hassle deals before, and expected the same this time, especially as a repeat customer. My target, based on what I’d read online, was Edmunds invoice plus adv. and MACO, plus $500; plus a lease at the buy rate and $625 acq. fee. I would have gone up $500 over that to maintain the relationship with the CA and dealer, and avoid having to shop around. But the offer wasn’t close, at $1000 over invoice, $825 acq. fee and buy rate plus .0003. Maybe I was more aggressive this time on the price I was asking for (basically was getting half-way between invoice and MSRP before), and it was the first lease for me (so we weren’t negotiating lease terms before), and the last one was an ED. Also, the CA went from being the internet guy to a salesman on the floor, so I don’t know if that affected the deal he could offer.
I wanted to get the deal arranged within a week, as the March lease rates on the 328i sedan were good (.00125) and I wanted to lock that in. I sent out 8 email inquiries to 6 Bay Area dealers and 2 others, asking for the above terms. I would have sent out more, but surprisingly, many dealer websites give you no way to correspond just by email (no way to send comments, and they only want to contact you by phone. To me, that’s not “internet sales!”). In some cases, I got around this by looking at their sales team info to find the internet guy, then emailed him directly.
I got responses from only 4 dealers. One said he could do the $500 over invoice but not the lease terms. One offered $250 over invoice, but gave no lease terms, and didn’t respond to my followup email asking for these. One responded but never gave a price.
I ended up ordering the car from Peter Pan BMW in San Mateo. The CA accepted the terms I offered from the start. I met with him on Friday and there were no surprises, his figures matched mine. He had already done a vehicle inquiry in the system and gave me a printout for a car already in production (status 150-production started), configured as I wanted it. The CA was very professional, and the whole thing took only 15-20 minutes. The CA suggested I put a little bit ($100) down, which I did, to lower the payment below $500, to reduce the amount of the security deposits (I planned on doing the 7 additional).
So here’s what I ended up with:
328i sedan, Titanium Silver, grey/walnut, Steptronic, premium, nav, satellite, folding rear seats.
MSRP: $41,345
Invoice (including adv. and $400 MACO): $38,645.
Sales price: $39,145 ($2,200 under MSRP)
Lease terms: 30-month, 15k/yr, $100 down, $625 acq. fee, MF .00076 (.00125 - .00049), 66% residual.
Tax rate 7.75%, license $318, tire fee $8.75, doc fee $45.
Monthly payment: $499.56
Drive off: $4982.55 (1st pmt., $4000 sec. deps., $100 down, license and fees, and $11.24 tax (on the $100 and the $45).
Car should arrive in late May. I had originally wanted to do an ED in September to coincide with the Frankfurt auto show, but couldn’t due to a work conflict. Instead, I’ll plan on going in 2009. This is why I did the 30-month lease; so the lease would expire in Nov. 2009, around the time I’d get my next car from a Sept. 2009 ED.
Greetings Real!
No need to bow down to me and my trusty TI-83. It's a great little tool that gets the job done. Years ago, I used to teach leasing classes using the TI 83. I would call Texas Instruments and borrow 30 calculators. When they arrived, I would down load my program into the calculators for students to use. The class was a big success and I received very good evaluations. Several students purchased a TI-83. TI should have given me a sales commission!
Unfortunately my schedule wouldn't allow me to continue doing the classes as it requires tons of preparation. Hopefully, I'll be able to resume in a few years. Those w/o programmable calcs are best served by an electronic spreadsheet like Excel. In fact, I've been meaning to create an Excel lease program but just haven't gotten around to it.
I have also written a seven page paper that discusses capitalization and computing sales tax. If you like, send me a private email indicating your email address and I will send it via an attachment. The math is fairly easy to follow which brings me to the following...
Mathematically speaking, you can capitalize anything. I'm from Ohio and have often capitalized security deposits. In fact, my TI 83 is programmed to do it. There is a pause in the calculation where the payment w/o security is shown and it prompts me to indicate the security deposit. Some are rounded up to the next $25 or $50 and so I need to know this criteria beforehand. I have two options at this point; either (1) enter the security deposit if I want it capitalized or (2) enter zero if I don't want it capitalized. It's that simple.
In Ohio, security deposits are not taxable; acquisition fees are taxable and so, as you've indicated, it's important to separate taxable items from non-taxable items.
I can't imagine why a fund provider or state would forbid capitalizing security deposits. It just doesn't make any sense. There certainly isn't anything in the Consumer Leasing Act's Regulation M that would forbid capitalizing the security deposit.
Just to give you an idea, here is a typical scenario for an '07 Acura TSX w/o Nav...
MSRP 28,760.00
Selling Price 26,700.00
Amounts Financed
1st Month’s Payment 361.71
Security Deposit 375.00
Acquisition Fee 595.00
Sales Tax @6.00% x 35 x 329.77 = 692.52
Capitalized Costs
Gross Capitalized Cost 28,724.23
Capitalized Cost Reduction 0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost 28,724.23
Residual
Residual Factor 0.62
Residual Value (Residual Factor × MSRP) 17,831.20
Cost of Money/Term
Money Factor 0.00127
Term (months) 36
Lease Payment
Monthly Lease Payment including Sales Tax 361.71
Monthly Lease Payment excluding Sales Tax 340.99
Charges Payable at Lease Origination
License, Title, Registration Fees 50.00
Total Amount Due at Lease Signing 50.00
GAP Coverage Included
Annual Mileage Allowance: 10,000
Disposition Fee: None
Excess Mileage @ $0.15 per mile
Reg. M Disclosure: NA
The $329.77 payment above is an intermediate calculation and is computed only for the purpose of computing state sales tax. Because acquisition fees are taxable in Ohio, this payment includes the acquisition meaning that the acquisition fee was capitalized. However, the security deposit is not taxable and is excluded from this payment. In good 'ole Ohio, the total payments are taxed and are due at lease inception. Observe that the Ohio sales tax is computed as follows...
0.06 x 35 x 329.77 = 692.52
Note that 35, not 36, appears as a factor. The reason is that the 1st payment of 329.77 was capitalized in the lease and so the remaining 35 payments of 329.77 already include repayment of the first payment (i.e., the first payment is being amortized in the lease).
The calculations can be tricky and it's very easy to make mistakes if you're not careful. I have yet to find a dealer that can correctly make these payment and tax computations much less correctly complete lease agreements. Usually, I have to step them through the process. Some are very cooperative; others resist. I simply won't do business with the latter.
I hope this helps.
John
Medina, Ohio
PS: I'll be glad to intercede on your behalf if you would prefer that I speak with your dealer about rolling in the security deposit. Maybe they just don't know how to do the calculation!
Flattery will get you everywhere! I'm just glad that I can help. Check out my post #7560. There, you will find a scenario that can serve as a "checklist". In fact, it can serve as a model for a one page lease proposal. If you would like some assistance in structuring such a proposal and all associated calculations, please send me a private email and I'll be delighted to help you. The beauty of a one page proposal is that it saves time and money. Simply FAX or email it to the dealer and see what shakes!
A good place to start your research, as you know, is right here at edmunds. Check the MSRP, Invoice Pricing, holdbacks, incentives, etc. Your goal should be to arrive at a very competitve and realistic selling price. Selling price is where the story begins. Afterall, every leased car is a sold car. Look for special lease programs at the finance captive websites. Cut and paste the advertisements and study them very carefully. They're often jam packed with useful information. You can determine residuals, residual factors, money factors, etc. NEVER EVER MAKE A DECISION BASED ON PAYMENT ALONE! It can be a deadly mistake!
It's still a good idea to call two or three dealers to confirm the information. Always ask for a decision maker and not an order taker! I always ask them if they know what the hell they're doing... my weak attempt at humor! Now, sometimes dealers will inflate money factors to include reserves. A dealer is compensated by the fund provider for writing a lease at a higher money factor. The compensation, of course, ultimately comes from you. It used to be that dealers collected this compensation over the term of the lease or at lease end. And so the money owed the dealer was held in "reserve". Nowadays, the compensation is paid almost immediately. I always ask for the money factor with 0% reserves. If the dealer insists on say, a 1% reserve level, I simply deduct it from the sell price but I don't tell them. Sneaky huh? Reserves work in much the same way that points do on a mortgage loan. A 1% reserve means the dealer is compensated 1% of the adjusted cap cost (excluding acquisition or bank fees). A fund provider just isn't going to allow a dealer to earn a reserve on their own acquisition fee. So, if the adjusted cap is $25,000 excluding the acquistion fee, a 1% reserve means the dealer earns $250 for writing the lease at the higher money factor.
DO NOT BUY GAP INSURANCE FROM A DEALER... EVER! Check with your insurance carrier. As a rule of thumb, GAP coverage should cost no more that 0.1% of the MSRP annually. So, for an MSRP of $40,000, that means GAP should cost no more than $40 annually. A GAP rider would cover you in the event that your car is totaled. It covers the difference between what the insurance company pays and what you actually owe.
Another important consideration is that after you lease, create a lease amortization schedule just like you would for a mortgage loan. This tracks your outstanding lease balance in case you want to terminate your lease early. You would be shocked at the number of fund providers who seem to have difficulty computing lease balances or payoffs!!! My brother's neighbor leased a jag and he terminated early. The fund provider gave him an inflated lease balance that reflected $700 more than what he actually owed! I'm not talking about excess wear/tear charges either and there were no late charges as this guy always paid early. Too many people place too much faith in the payoff figures given them by their fund providers and that can be a HUGE HUGE MISTAKE!
In any lease transaction, you must do the math correctly. Not knowing how to do the math is the kiss of death in this business! It's like placing a sweet little innocent guppy in a tank with a great white shark. The dealer could swallow you whole and you won't even know it! ALWAYS BE IN CONTROL OF THE DEAL. If you lease often, it would behoove you to educate yourself on leasing. You should be able to do the calculations in your sleep! The payoff (no pun intended) is that you'll be well positioned to negotiate confidently and you won't be afraid to tell a dealer that they're wrong when they're wrong. I have no problem doing it! The problem with me is that I'm like 20 bulls in a china shop; I have ZERO diplomacy.
Should you have questions or concerns, please let me know.
John
Medina, Ohio
No--but being critical of people for not answering you in two hours doesn't usualy engender replies.
(the price seems too high)
I like your initials wbb... sounds like a radio station!
Okay, much better! You've given me everything I need to navigate successfully! So, let's try to address your concerns. Here is what I have...
'07 BMW 335i sedan
MSRP 47,795.00
Sell Price 45,755.00
Amount Financed
Acquisition Fee 725.00
Gross Cap 46,480.00
Cap Reduction 0.00
Adjusted Cap 46,480.00
Residual (12K miles @63%) 30,110.85
Money Factor 0.00131 (you indicated 0.000131... I think this is inaccurate)
Term 36 months
NC Tax Rate 3.00%
Payment w/o tax 555.03
Tax @3.00% 16.65
Payment with Tax 571.68
Total NC Tax 746.37
Amounts DUE at lease inception...
Security Deposit 4800.00
Doc Fee 99.50
1st Payment 571.68
Tax 146.99
TOTAL DUE 5,618.17
Note that the 146.99 tax was calculated as follows...
0.03 x (4800 + 99.50) = 146.99
Observe that your security deposit is taxed in NC. However, at lease end, you are entitled to receive a refund of the tax on any returned security deposit...
http://www.dornc.com/practitioner/sales/bulletins/section35.pdf
Other than this caveat, all calculations appear to be spot on.
Good luck!
John
Medina, Ohio
This is extraordinarily helpful. The idea of walking out the door paying absolutely nothing is very nice. You must have the patience of a Saint if you are willing to walk car salesmen through this.
I got my 335i sedan msrp of about 45k. My monthly was $589.00 which includes tax. 12k miles a year. With due at signing of $987.00. That includes 1st month, license and registration. No security deposit etc.
Your point regarding a down payment (dp) is well taken. Buying or leasing shouldn't matter. If you have lots of equity in your old car, try to sell it! Don't trade it if you can avoid it. When interest rates are low coupled with the fact that a car is a depreciating asset, it quickly becomes a no brainer that a dp is not very prudent. Remember, a car doesn't need to be driven off the lot to be considered "used"... the instant it's titled, it becomes "used"!
Additionally, if you total your car, it's not likely you'll see a return of your down payment.
I will never make a dp whether I buy or lease... it doesn't matter.
After toiling in all the BMW forums, i finally decided that Leasing is the way to go for me personally.
so i have to start educating myself about leasing now.
You WOW'ed me again!!! The idea of a 1 page lease is perfect and your advise of not looking at the monthly payment is a new concept I just learned from you. This is the deal; I have a local BMW dealer that is a client of mine (my company does all their bankcard processing and I am their Relationship Manager), my contact at the dealership referred me to one of the sales manager to "take good care of me" so I believe I can get a little better treatment than in the past when I just walked into the local BMW dealership. Now on another note I was able to be referred to a Lexus dealership by a VIP person at Toyota. I met the sales person and test drove a RX400 which I liked a lot. The MSRP for this car is 48K and he said my "VIP" price would be around 42K, however he also told me that Lexus really does not have really good lease programs as BMW does so that would bring my payment up. I went to carsdirect.com and priced the car it comes up to pretty much the same as my "VIP" pricing. I like the Lexus but I want to keep my monthly payments below $500. Please enlighten me if the Lexus might be a better choice even if my payments will be higher but it will be a better payoff at the end of the lease.
Thank you sooooooooo much for now,
Izabela
It is difficult to say whether or not the Lexus would be a better choice as I don't have residuals or lease financing rates as well as acquisition fees, etc to make that judgement.
If you can get these data, I'll be in a much better position to crunch the numbers and provide details. If you revisit my post #7560, you'll have a good idea of what I need.
Buying from those with whom you have an established business relationship can be tricky and so I try to avoid those situations.
Good luck and let me know what you find.
Best,
John
Yup, all the numbers square. Enjoy your new car!
Thanks very much for taking the time to review my lease details! And thanks for the info on the tax refund.. I really appreciate your help..
I am helping a friend lease a 07 328 coupe with the premium package in metalic silver. I have learned about multiple security deposits and will do that. I live in Los Angeles. I am looking for a 2 year lease.
ANy thoughts or suggestions.
Here is the package that I wanted on the 2007 335i coupe:
Sparkling Graphite Exterior with Red Dakota Leather interior
Premium Package
Sport Package
Steptronic w/ paddle shifters
DVD/Navigation
And the lease terms were 36 months, $0 down, 15K miles/year.
I was given a monthly payment of $593 inclusive of sales tax with a walk away tag of around $1500.
Has anyone used this company before? Is this deal legit or am I wasting my time?
Thank you for your reply. I will be happy to get the info from the dealership. I was not able to send you a private e-mail to get the 1 page proposal - I think this service is not working at this time. Please enlighten me again on how to solve this technical challenge.
Thank you,
Izabela
Unless you wish to capitalize the first monthly payment or capitalize the sales tax, there really is no technical challenge. In other words, the real challenge surfaces when one enters into a sign and drive lease where no money is due at lease signing. The calculations aren't particularly difficult; however, they can be tricky. So tricky, in fact, that many lease software developers and dealerships often make calculation errors. My paper addresses this issue.
Most people, however, usually make the first payment, pay doc fees, and, if appropriate, pay sales tax and a security deposit when the lease is originated. In this case, the above is a non-issue and structuring the lease and performing all required calculations is very easy to do.
Because this seems to be the most popular option, let's consider the following hypothetical example...
1st. Collect all relevant data.
MSRP = 45,000.00
S = Sell price = 42,000.00
A = Acquisition Fee = 600.00
M = Money Factor = 0.0010
N = Term = 36 months
R = Residual = 27,000 (i.e., 60% x 45,000) 60% is arbitrary
P = Monthly Lease Payment excluding tax
P* = Monthly Lease Payment including tax
t = Sales tax Rate = 6.0%
Down Payment/Trade?: NO
GAP Coverage Provided?: YES
Annual Mileage: 15K
Disposition Fee?: NO
Excess Mileage Charge: 0.15 per mile
Sales Tax: Computed on the payment streams
Capitalized Amounts: Acquisition Fee Only
2nd. Perform all relevant calculations.
Basic Money Factor Formula:
P = M(S+A+R)+(S+A-R)/N
P = 0.0010(42000+600+27000)+(42000+600-27000)/36
P = 502.93
Tax Formula:
P* = P(1+t)
P* = 502.93(1.06)
P* = 533.11
3rd. Create a one page lease proposal.
BMW xxxi Base MSRP 44,500.00
Destination Charge 500.00
MSRP 45,000.00
Sell Price 42,000.00
Acquisition Fee 600.00
Gross Capitalized Cost 42,600.00
Capitalized Cost Reduction 0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost 42,600.00
Residual 27,000.00
Money Factor 0.0010
Term (months) 36
Monthly Lease Payment excluding tax 502.93
Monthly Lease Payment including tax 533.11
Charges Payable at Lease Origination
1st Payment 533.11
Security Deposit 550.00
Document Fee 50.00
Document Fee Tax 3.00
License, Title, Registration Fee 60.00
Total Due at Lease Signing 1,196.11
GAP Coverage: YES
Annual Mileage: 15K
Disposition Fee: NONE
Excess Mileage Charge: 0.15 per mile
_________________________________________________________
Some Comments...
(1) I believe all BMW lease contracts provide GAP coverage. However, in the event that I'm wrong (which happens occasionally), you should check with your insurance carrier. A GAP Rider should cost no more than 0.1% x MSRP as a rule of thumb or; in this example, 0.1% x 45000 = $45 annually.
(2) Creating a professional looking lease proposal is very important. It's purpose is to save time, money, and eliminate aggravation. It should also send the message that you know lots about leasing so please, Mr. Dealer, don’t play any games because I don't have the time and neither do you.
(3) Once your proposal is complete, simply FAX or email it to the dealer. It’s best to limit the proposal to just one page so the dealer doesn’t have to flip through bunches of paper and refer to items on page 1 when reviewing stuff on page 4.
(4) Call the dealer soon after you’ve FAXED or emailed your proposal and be sure to review it with them. Should they ask silly questions such as how you arrived at the selling price, politely tell them that it is irrelevant (this is where I need to improve). The least said the better. What is relevant is whether or not they can do the deal. BE IN CONTROL AND BE FIRM WITH THE DEALER. THE ONLY RESPONSE YOU WANT TO HEAR IS EITHER:
(A) YES, WE CAN DO THE DEAL
OR
(B) NO, WE CAN’T DO THE DEAL.
If they can do the deal per the proposal, make sure that they are in complete agreement with every last bit of detail described. You want to make it virtually impossible for them to claim that they made a mistake once you’ve arrived at the dealership. If they say that they made an error once you’ve arrived, they’re going to look awfully silly. Remind them that the purpose of this exercise is to prevent mistakes, save time, and eliminate aggravation for all concerned. Unless they can remedy their mistake quickly, tell them that you’ll be taking your business elsewhere and thank them for wasting their time as well as yours. They’ll try to get away with as much as possible if you let them. Remember that you’re the expert and in control of the deal.
If you still want my paper, here is my email: diffeq@zoominternet.net
Hope that this has been helpful.
John
Thanks.
Your going to get a world of different opinions on this question, but here's mine. BMW's make excellent lease candidates because of their very high residual rates and, depending on the model, very low money factors. These combine to make your monthly payments very low. For me, I'd much rather lease than buy because I'm not very disciplined about being satisfied with a car for more than 3 years. New technology comes out (e.g. real time traffic, bluetooth) and I start to get itchy for a new car. Leasing allows me to keep my payments low and get a brand new car every 2-3 years.
Hope this is helpful.
Leased cars are a major profit center for BMW as the leasing program opens the line to more buyers, hooks buyers into the BMW product and upon lease return BMW receives great cars that will be CPO'd and resold for even more profit.It's a win, win for both sides.
Leasing, along with scheduled service also puts buyers into a position of easily moving up or switching cars. People start a lease and don't really get the same depreciation BMW buyers often face. Plus they spend very little as the lease cost is really the only cost (beyond gas, insurance and tires).
Also, should you tire of a lease, it's quite easy to put your car on swapalease.com and get a new person to take over your payments.
Lots of flexibility, low payments, little risk, set costs (tires, gas, insurance, no maintenance fees) and easy outs make leasing BMWs attractive.
Thanks for the reply. You really sold me on leasing is the way to go.
Sorry for the miscommunication, the technical challenge in question was not on the lease itself it was on not being able to e-mail directly to get the proposal. But I guess you have given me enough information to go out there and get some bids for my purchase. John, I am sure that like all of us you are extremely busy and to take time helping us to understand this tricky lease industry is so great of you.
Many Many Thanks,
Izabela
Good luck and good day.
John
does anyone know what are the Money Factor and Residuals for April 2007 on BWM 328xi - 36 month lease?
Thank you!
Do you really want to own a BMW past it's warranty period? A friend of mine who works in a local BMW service department tells me - the costs are astronomical and unfortunately BMWs break more often that they should.
I've often said (in other forums) that BMW is in the car rental business. Many Japanese luxury car makers are in the car sales business.
36mo/12K lease
335i Coupe
SportPackage
Steptronic Trans
Paddle Shifters
MSRP $44525
INVOICE $41520
Negotiated $43525 ($2005 over invoice or $1000 under MSRP)
$0 Down
$5600 Max MSD (7SD + 1SD required for first time buyer)
MF 0.0017(Base) + 0.0004 (max dealer markup 0.0004 - no negotiation here) -0.00049 (7 MSD) = 0.00161
Residual 60%
Monthly = $650.71 (incl Sales Tax)
I have put down a deposit and got a production number, I know deals are dependent on geographic region and sales tax
Just wanted some opinions, even though I have dropped a deposit I can still bail and get the deposit back since it's refundable right?
Did you get the quote from Internet sales? How many dealerships have you contacted? If you read the posts from about a month back, you will see another person from Bay Area having the same problem - dealers won't budge. He received some good advice from, as I remember, blueguydotcom. In the end, he got a fair deal from a dealer in Sacramento area. You may find information from those posts. If all fails, come down to So. Cal. The cost to you would only be a one-way air fare and a tank of gas. Let me know if you need a name.
I put down the deposit which I made sure was refundable and started doubting I even got a decent deal.
I basically sent emails out with my offer and base/MSRP, in the Bay Area very few responded. Those that did said nothing off MSRP.
I got one offer from the Bay Area which is the one in my original post,as well as one in AZ.
I think I just too eager, I'm going to cancel and see what dealers in Sac or SoCal can offer me.
http://www.bmwps.com/MiscPage
http://crevierbmw.com/contact_form.htm
Well, that's one way of looking at at--another is to say that they like to get a lot of lease return cars to sell. CPO'd BMW's sell for amazingly high prices, higher than the lease residuals, so i don't think keeping the leases cheap hurts them.
has anyone re-leased their bmw for another 2 or 3 year term???? what was your experience?
I have yet to contact BMW to ask any questions about the process....not even sure if it is an available option.
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I am getting ready to put out some offers on a pretty basic 328i Sedan w/Steptronics, Power Seats, and Sport Package. Here is the proposal I am going to be putting out but I want to make sure my #'s are correct and if this sounds like a fair deal.
BMW 328i (w/options) MSRP $36,270
Invoice (w/options) $34,930
Destination Charge $775
MSRP $37,045
Sell Price $35,680 (invoice + $750)
Acquisition Fee $625 (trying to tell me it’s $825)
Gross Capitalized Cost $36,305
Capitalized Cost Reduction $0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost $36,305
Residual (63%) $23,338.35
Money Factor 0.00180 (brought down from .00195 with security deposit...I'm sure the dealer is marking this up)
Term (months) 36
Georgia Tax 7%
Monthly Lease Payment excluding tax $467.54
Monthly Lease Payment including tax $500.27
Charges Payable at Lease Origination
1st Payment $500.27
Security Deposit $550.00
Document Fee $499.00 (this seems OUTRAGEOUS!?!?!?)
Document Fee Tax $34.93
License, Title, Registration Fee $39.00
Lemon Law Fee $3.00
Total Due at Lease Signing $1626.20
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!
I see you've been reading my posts as you've modeled your proposal after mine and that's good to see. I'll take that as a complement.
Here are my comments...
(1) All the calcs are correct.
(2) The $499 doc fee is way out in space. Doc fees should cost no more than $150.
(3) The acquisition fee, as far as I know, is $625 but apparently some dealers are trying to inflate them to $825.
(3) The sell price seems more than fair.
I'd say that you have a fair deal if the dealer drops the doc fee by $300 or so. Either that, or drop the selling price by $300.
I would lower the sell price by $500 and leave the doc fee alone... $250 over invoice plus holdback isn't bad for them. You know darn well that the doc fee is grossly inflated.
Good luck,
John
You are correct...I have been studying this forum and especially your posts. Last question since I've got you on the line. Should I press the issue on the MF? From everything I've read, it looks like it was at .00125 last month but the dealer said it went up. After a security deposit, .0018 seems ok. I have some extra cash so I figure I could always apply it to some MSD's to lower it...
BTW...you need to write a book or something ;-) this is great stuff!
Kind Regards,
Michael
A few comments for you:
1) For 328i sedan's I am routinely seeing $500 over invoice on this board. There's definitely room to squeeze him on this.
2) It looks like maybe the Lic/Reg and Doc numbers are flipped. For me in CA, the Lic/Reg is $341 and Doc/Tire Fee is $54.
3) I'm not sure what the rate has changed to for April, but in March the base MF for this car was .00125 which is dramatically different than the MF you have listed above.
4) You should capitalize the fees. In other words, don't pay them up front, make the dealer build them into the monthly payment.
All in all, for this configuration, you should be shooting for a monthly payment of around $450 and a total drive off of about $900 (1st month and security deposit).