2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

alex123 · November 2004

The car is overpriced or I'm getting a bad deal?
This is 2k over invoice, edmunds suggests it should be sold @ sticker.

rroyce10 · November 2004

....... $2,000 over *invoice* is a "fair" price, but I have a feeling that they would probably kick another $500 off to move the unit .. if you like the color and options, then take it ..............

Terry.

designman · November 2004

$17k may sound like a lot of savings, but that's only 23% less than the price of a brand new vehicle.

What are you comparing this to, a 7-series that you may be able to get 15% off MSRP, or the vehicle in discussionan M5 which isnt discounted and has better resale value? Big difference. Furthermore, the E60 M5 is less street-friendly than the E39 version for my taste. The price/performance difference hits my sweetspot for a performance sedan. And yes, $17K is indeed a lot of savings. As an owner of an S2000 bargain baby are you really going to try to convince me otherwise?

I have been coached by a few well qualified friends and associates that a car that "sits" for extended periods of time is MORE likely to have some mechanical issues than one that is driven regularly.

That theory could hold water for a vehicle that sits unused and unattended for 15, 20 years. An 01 vehicle doesnt even close to being suspect on those grounds. I welcome any opinion or evidence that suggests otherwise. 01 cars arent old enough to develop internal corrosion, pocks, galling, rigor mortis due to the effects of time and unattended lack of use. The M5 that interested me would be subjected to immediate fluid replacement and diagnostic anyway, then go through my own break-in regimen. Flat spots on tires? They would SCREAM vibration on the test drive and would have to be replaced before I would consider buying.

To each his own but I see little downside to buying a low-mileage cherry. It means Ill have more redlining to myself. I would like to know what happens to routinely-redlined high-revving engines when their mileage starts adding uptheir odometers belie the distance traveled by the reciprocating engine parts and the stresses put on them. I would never buy a car that I thought was driven hard. Remember, high-revving F1 engines are as disposable as daily contact lenses. An owner who mimics this type of driving is taking life off his engine in a similar if less-extreme manner. Ill do this myself, thank you, without having the other persons driving factor into this.

Proper break-in? Sure, I follow convention and am adverse to abusive break-in. But Id welcome any data or even isolated empirical evidence that shows ill effects of UNDER-break-in, why it should deter anyone from buying a garage queen at a good price. It is my contention that under-break-in merely means it has yet to be broken in.

I appreciate and buy new cars for the same obvious reasons that anyone else does. That said, Ive had three used cars that never gave me problems. As you are candid about criticizing others on their purchases I will now amicably suggest that it could behoove you to re-think your car-buying strategy, because anyone who needs a full four seats and who craves roadster performance is going to be left hanging by every new luxury sedan out there. Therein lies the current value of an E39 M5. The total package cant be beatplenty of low-end torque for a road cruiser, plenty of revs for the sport driver, plenty of corners, and a real stick with heavy duty clutcha combination that wont be obsolete for some time yet. The bargain you find is merely icing on the cake. Youd give that up because of used-car syndrome and baubles like a nav upgrade? Think about it when you are driving your next new sedan and are having fond memories of your S2000 which is a fantastic car IMO. You may also want to think about why there are tons of luscious Porsches on the road, most of which are used and command premium prices. Again, to each his own but I find it unfortunate that a lust for sport and magnificent cars could be shackled by such paranoia.

kyfdx · November 2004

Uh.. alex23.. Is there not one option you can't live without? That has to be the highest priced 530i on the planet..

Anyway, what is your tax rate? I'll check the numbers for you.

rroyce10 · November 2004

....... I think he missed the basket weaving option ...................

Terry.

kyfdx · November 2004

I ran some numbers..

Using your figures, I come up with a payment of $677/mo + tax.. So, your dealer's numbers appear to be right on the money..

1) Your price is right about $2000 over invoice.. I agree with Terry.. seems fair, but you might be able to beat another $500 out of them.. $500 will save you about $15/mo.

2) Can you get by with only 10K miles/yr.? The cheapest miles you can buy is the jump from 10K to 12K.... That would only add about $16/mo to your payment... Maybe you could try negotiating the extra mileage, rather than the lower price.. It will cost them $585 to give you the higher mileage for the same price.

3) Even though that MSRP is hideously expensive, the lease deals are pretty good.. and, from all appearances, your dealer is giving you the base rates on MF and acquisition fee. The residual for the 10K lease is 63% and the MF is .0015

4) If you can live with a 530i with less options, you can save substantially.. Get the same deal on one with an MSRP of $55K, and your payment drops about $45/mo.

All in all, a pretty good deal, and your dealer is not "playing" with the numbers.

regards,
kyfdx

alex123 · November 2004

Believe it or not this isn't all the options,
all options will take it to 64K area and with Rear Deck Spoiler+Illuminated Door Sills+ Leather/Wood Gear Shift Knob+ ,etc... - 70K

I can probably live without premium sound, I usually do that would save me couple of bucks

Or I can look in to getting 545 with even less options and lower residuals

habitat1 · November 2004

I have to admit, that when I see someone asking if a $55k+ 2005 530i is a good deal, even a FOUR year old low mileage M5 for $57k sounds like a bargain. So maybe I should re-think my previous posts.

I will point out, however, that my 1995 Maxima with 153k miles has been "sitting" for the past three months. In the 10 years I was driving it, I didn't have a single repair until 110k miles. And, up until I bought an Acura TL in May, the Maxima ran perfectly. Yet, when my wife tried moving it yesterday, the battery was dead. After jump starting it, the clutch wouldn't go far enough in to get into reverse gear. After filling the clutch fluid and finally getting it into reverse and driving it, the brakes were making a horrible noise. Even the engine felt rough, but I may just be used to the Acura. In any event, I think I should give it to someone who will put it to good use. I didn't trade it because it wasn't worth much, but it obviously doesn't like sitting.

Back to the M5. Consider your points made and my opinions modified accordingly.

rroyce10 · November 2004

**'03 530i that he bought on Ebay... drove it straight home.. ten hours..
6K miles, 5-speed, premium, Xenons, stereo upgrade, PDC, etc.. Silver w/black leather..
$30,450 total.. plus taxes when he registers it.** ....


              In this particular case, this guy just "flat" stole it, even $35,0 would have been fair .... once you get into that $50,000+ market, your getting into some rarefied air .. thats why Bimmer dealers load up with clean low miler 02/03's, it expands their selling market by 50%+ ........

                                 Terry.

rrusso1 · November 2004

Just picked up my new 530. Car equipped with nav system, premium package, premium sound, steptronic, Xenon adaptive headlights, cold weather package and satellite radio prep listed for 54,395. The cost to me was 51,350 which was 3045 discount from list and a little over 1500 over invoice which was 49785. I thought this was a fair deal and is a pretty good barometer as to what type of deal is available right now on the 530.

330iii · November 2004

That's a good deal on an 05. I bet the dealers already know about the new R6 6 cylinder debuting in the new e90 3 series coming out this coming Fall for our E60 5 series's The engine is already out in Europe in the 630i!

By the way the vicious rumor is that the new 7 series coming out this approaching Fall will have a new V8 that will be slated for the E60 in September 2005 or 2006!

habitat1 · November 2004

As recently as two years ago, a well equiped 530i could be purchased in the $40-42k range through ED. A 540i 6-speed could be purchased in the $51-$53k range. I had thought that the former 528i had been underpowered, but the newly introduced 530i was quite competitive. If you had asked me two to three years ago, the 530i would have been well up on my list as a replacement sedan for my aging Nissan Maxima.

I milked the Maxima for another couple of years and got a Honda S2000 as a fun car in the meantime. But when it finally came to replacing the Maxima in May, I ended up with a 2004 Acura TL 6-speed for $33.5k. I was still cool to the new 5-series aesthetics and i-drive. Prior to the redesign of the TL and availability of an S2000 like 6-speed, it was never on my shopping list, period.

I still find the 5-series to be highly attractive and am getting over my adjustment period to the new exterior style. However, from this forum, prices seems to have crept up to the low $50's for a 530i and low $60's for a loaded 5454i 6-speed. And, I hate to admit, that while the 530i felt like a good improvement over the 528i when I was driving a 7 year old 190 hp. 1995 Maxima, the new 530i returns to feeling underpowered compared to a 270 hp 2004 TL 6-speed.

My conclusion is that, in hindsight, the 2002/2003 530i 5-speed at $42k +/- was very value competitive with the "near luxury" FWD Japanese alternatives of it's day (TL, ES, Maxima). $10-13k more expensive, but worth it back then, IMO. The current 530i appears to be far less value competitive, given the nearly $20k differential and significant horsepower disadvantage the 6-cylinder 530i now gives up to the competition. In a relatively short two-three years, I would now have to jump to a $60k+ 545i to get the same satisfaction a $40k 530i might have provided in 2002/3.

I'm wondering how many others who have tracked the 5-series for the last few years feel the same way.

kyfdx · November 2004

It is hard to compare horsepower... The TL just got that big bump, and the 5-series is due for a new engine next year... Word is, it will have 258HP.. That will even that out a little..

I will say.. the price of the new 5-series seems incredibly high.. BMWs have always sold at a premium to the market.. but...shewwwww.

Actually, I think the spread is due to Acura holding the line on prices, more than BMW really jacking them up... We had a '94 Vigor, which was more or less equivalent to the TL in the Acura lineup.. It had an MSRP of $29K.. So, in 11 years, MSRP has only risen $4500... and, of course the TL has much more standard..

pen101 · November 2004

I agree. That is why I got into the E39 back in Dec, 2001 and plan to purchase the car next month at lease-end. However, my lease buy-out decision might have been different if the buy-out price wasn't so attractive. The competition has gotten so much stronger, while the E60 has gotten significantly more expensive (compared to the E39). At $55K, it makes the E60 530 a harder sell than the days not too long ago when a new E39 530 could be had in the low to mid $40K range.

I plan to have my car CPO'd. I have gotten different prices from each of the 4 dealers I contacted. The best so far is $2,395 plus tires, but I purchase the car from this dealer at the MMR price (which they said is currently slightly below my lease buy-out price). Two questions: what is a "good" price to pay for the CPO? Also, is there any way I can independently track the MMR price (Manheim Riverside auction price) on a weekly basis so that I can verify what the dealer quotes me is accurate?

P.S. In our discussions last month on this subject, the advice I received here was not to go through the dealer but instead negotiate directly with BMWFS. I still plan to follow this advice, however, I want a plan "B" in place just in case BMWFS will not negotiate, especially since a friend tried such a tactic with BMWFS and was unsuccessful in getting them to lower the buy-out price on his lease.

riez · November 2004

Have you checked out the value of the Euro vs the dollar lately? Just a few years ago a Euro was worth about 88 cents. Today it is nearly $1.30. BMW does its accounting in Euros. And the 5 Series is built overseas, including in Germany. BMW can only hedge so much. If anything, the value of the Euro is likely to rise in 2005. Wouldn't be surprised to see it hit $1.40. Maybe $1.50 by 2006? US budget and trade deficits putting pressure on dollar.

kyfdx · November 2004

I think the list price of the extended warranty for a 5-series is $2749... If your dealer can do it for $2395, plus get you a better price than the residual on your contract, then that may be the way to go...

I agree about the weak dollar, but BMW still has to be competitive and maintain market share, even if it means some short-term losses or profit reductions.. The Euro could go to $2.00 tomorrow, but that doesn't mean they can pull off a 50% increase in price. It may put pressure on their bottom line, but they still have to compete in the markets they have chosen to do business in.... Most companies look at it as a short-term fluctuation.. A majority of BMWAG is family-owned.. Companies like that can ride out ups and downs better than a purely public company that has to answer to shareholders and make their quarterly projections, so that management can collect their bonuses..

regards,
kyfdx

bmwnewbie530i · November 2004

Can someone with experience (perhaps a dealer on the forum) tell me whther I am getting a good deal?

2005 530i orient blue/auburn leather including:
automatic, premium package, cold weather package, sport package, premium sound, xenon headlamps, navigation, head up display, park distance control, rear side airbag.

Destination charge = $695
36 month lease; 10,000 miles/yr
NY Sales Tax = 8.75%
Money Factor = 0.00150 = 3.6%
Residual = 63%
$4000 down payment covering tax, acquisition fee ($1,000), 1st month payment, tags ($68), etc.

Lease payment $675.52 per month.

azbmwx5 · November 2004

I posted a message in the Lease section as well, but I am shopping for a 5 series, and my dealer told me that you cannot use multiple security deposits to buy down the rate if the rate is already "Subvented" or supported by BMW Finance. They also told me the "special" money factor was .0019, so they were adding the famous mark-up. Does anyone know what is correct regarding the buy down of the rate with multiple security deposits. In 2001 I was able to do this on a 325CI with no restrictions and the interest rate was therefore very low. Thanks!

nyccarguy · November 2004

So after almost 3 years of suffering with her 2002 A6 3.0 Quattro (and the awful service department and customer service that came standard), we set out to test drive cars for her in case she has to order for sometime in March. She has it in her head that she NEEDS AWD and we're trying to convince her otherwise. She drove a 330xi and liked it, but thought the trunk and back seat were a bit too small. SO we're talking to the salesman and she's eyeing this 530i in the showroom. So we took it for a test drive. After driving the 530iA (bangalized and all), she decided she could live without AWD. She's genuinely excited about a car for the first time since she ordered a 1998 MB CLK 320 (the car she drove before the A6) back in August of 1997. So her positive test drive along with my Dad's excellent experience with his '04 X5 3.0i lead her to believe that her next car will be the 530iA. Now I have some buying questions:

The car in question is an '05 530iA with Steptronic, Leather, Premium Package, Cold Weather, and Xenon headlights.

MSRP is 50,720
Capitalized cost (right now) $48,300 (about $1500 over invoice)
36 month/15K per year lease
60% residual
.0015 money factor
$0 Cap cost reduction
$667.56 per month

Has anybody seen better on an '05?

kyfdx · November 2004

I'm not an expert on the MSD program, but it did change.. I'll tell you what I believe to be accurate.. take it with a grain of salt.

1) MSD has always been available on BMWFS leases, even the "subvented" ones.

2) In 2001, you got a .0001 reduction for up to 9 extra deposits... that has changed.. the reduction is now half what it was and the extra deposits are restricted to 5.

3) So, before you could save .0009 with 9 extra deposits.. Now, you can save .00025 with 5 extra.

As you can see, it is not nearly as generous as it was before.. It still makes a little financial sense, but not enough to worry about.. You can save a LOT more by just getting them to use the base rates.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · November 2004

Those are the base rates...

Don't know about the going purchase price.. but, I ran the lease numbers and got $627/mo + tax.. If you roll the $525 acq.fee into the cap cost, it comes to $643/mo + tax.

There could be different figures for NY, not sure..

nyccarguy · November 2004

in Rockland County where my parents live is 8.125%. The bank fee in NY is more than $525 because of the lovely loopholes in the law that allowed people to sue lending institutions for millions of dollars when someone in a leased car was involved in an accident. Many mfrs stopped leasing in NY for about 8 months. The banks recouped some of the money by charging more on the leasing fees.

Their up front costs will be as follows: 1st month, Security, Bank fee, & DMV fees (also quite pricey in NY).

sapparo · November 2004

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/autos/cr_auto_reliability/

Whats going on with these new german makes nothing but problems it seems? First the 7 series was blasted for its styling and then poor reliability of electronics. What are the issues with the 5 series now? Seems like the all new AWD Acura RL which is prob. the most advanced car going right now in the class is the best bet. The Audi A6 is appealing only on the inside that front schnoze is super overdone and hideous.

motowneer · November 2004

I normally know my way around a regular retail purchace, but for the first time, I'm considering leasing and really need some concrete advice. They just came out with some special lease rates on the slow selling. homely 5 series(but I like it and see it as an opportunity.) Anyway, I'm looking at an '05 530i...total msrp is$50,970. I know it's a waste to dump down payment on leasing but I'll give them 2500.00 and roll the 1st pmt. and sec. deposit into lease. They've come back with 575 a month on a 36 month lease at 10K miles a year. I'm fine with 10K miles as I don't drive a lot. Bottom line, is it unrealistic to want a payment of 540 to 550 a month knowing they are going to start using the new engine(r36) in March production, so buying now means I'm getting the older tech engine? Thanks! Hope you can help. Pittsburgh area.

kyfdx · November 2004

If your total upfront is $2500, then $575/mo plus tax is about $2000 off MSRP... Not bad, you might be able to knock another $25-$30/mo. off that.. If the $575 is including tax, you might be close to the bottom line.

regards,
kyfdx

nyccarguy · November 2004

my parents are looking at pretty much the same car, and were quoted $667 per month for 15K per year on a 36 month lease. We're going to try and do a little better. Right now our Capitalized cost for the lease is $1500 over invoice.

Don't worry about the new valvetronic 3.0L Inline 6. The 3.0L motor in the car now suits it just fine. It is a proven engine that shouldn't give you a lick of trouble for the duration of your lease. That's the benefit of leasing. If you were to buy the car, and then the same car came out with the new, more powerful engine, the resale value of your car would go down.

Good luck and let us know what's going on.

kyfdx · November 2004

I don't think the new engine will be available in the '05s.. I'm pretty sure the 5-series won't get them until the '06 model year..

motowneer · November 2004

I closed the deal today. Total due at inception was $3300.00 Payment is $550 + tax(5%). 36 month lease, 10K per year miles. I'm satisfied. "05 530i premium plus premium logic 7 sound, Step. MSRP $50,939.00.

motowneer · November 2004

New R6 three litre engine goes into 5 series production in March.

lovemyclk · November 2004

If you care to troll for the sole purpose of telling BMW owners that their cars are problematic, time to find someone who cares elsewhere.

Japanese vehicles have achieved exemplary quality scores in most segments due to their adherence to lean manufacturing methods. Historically, German and American manufacturers have been philosophically different in their approach to manufacturing and have paid the price in some quarters.

We are now seeing companies such as Porsche and Ford adopting lean techniques. GM is making great headway in their JD Power Quality rankings. Much more to choosing which car to drive, however!

The Germans excel in areas that Japan would give its eye-teeth for... and visa-versa in some areas. Pitching the new RL won't give you much leverage here... as it will have its own issues in due time.

For example, the 300HP motor in the RL provides minuscule performance improvements over the current 3.0 in the 530 - that has 75 fewer HP! BMW will be releasing the next-gen 3.0 in March with close to 260HP. If cars were simply evaluated on paper, then many lower-tier cars would be at the top of their segments.

Give the BMW-trashing a rest and offer substantive insight we are not aware of concerning the RL. Kinda like me, as a 2003 530 owner, going to the RL forums to toss bombs for the sake of tossing bombs... like saying that the new RL breaks no new styling ground with that Pontiac Bonneville nose and no V-8 to play in the premium segments. Combining that with poor rear compartment passenger room, is the RL anything more than an expensive Bluetooth platform with a nice stereo? See my point?

For every "bad list" as you mention the BMW being part of, BMW is at the top of many more "lists" that the RL would be honored to simply be a part of.

Kirstie_H · November 2004

Folks, this discussion is reserved for pricing and purchasing experiences only. If you want to talk about general vehicle characteristics, styling, or overall quality, we have plenty of active topics:
BMW 5-Series Sedans
Reliability and long-term costs of ownership - MB, BMW, VW/AUDI compared
Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

rdebay · December 2004

I'm looking for a 2005 545i in south Florida w/ sports and sound packages. I got a quote for $59,170 which is about 5% over invoice.
How does this compare to what others have seen?

cheezhed · December 2004

I can't buy it for under $60K where I live in the SW.

By the way, I own a 540i ('03) but I'm wondering why so many 545's are for sale on eBay. What's wrong , if anything with this car?

rdebay · December 2004

I can only find one 545 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1- &item=4508518947&category=6008&sspagename=WDVW

2004 model, 9797 miles, no options, reserve is over $40,000 dollars. They're not letting it go cheap.

rdebay · December 2004

I've been hearing this about the price. Normally I'd try to negotiate to at least 3%, but demand must still be greater than the supply. If everything is still good after the sale I'll post the dealership.

carnaught · December 2004

I should hope they're not selling for under ('04 545's) $40K bring onr model year old.

Cheezhed said there were a lot of 545's on Ebay. I found 6 545's advertised. Seems like there are a lot.

vfma6658 · December 2004

Right now is December 2004, i am thinking to get a brand new 2005 525i within next week.... do any one think that i have a chance to get the 05' 525i with 1500 to 2000 over ed invoice?

gold233790 · December 2004

I've seen a bunch of different numbers, so looking for the correct ones.....

Anyone have the current residual and MF for the 530i, with 36 months and 15k?

Thanks.

nyccarguy · December 2004

current mf is .0015
Residual is 60%

gold233790 · December 2004

thought it was, but wasn't certain. I'll be discussing price with a few dealers over the next several days and wanted to go in prepared...

Looking for a 530 with an MSRP of 52,595. We'll see what pans out.....Looking at the A6 as well, but enough people have convinced me that with the right snows I'll be fine with the white stuff....

bmw_new · December 2004

Just get a quote for $900 over invoice on
530i. MSRP $54270, quoted for $51000. I think
this is a very good deal and am going for
it.

carnaught · December 2004

Please give us feedback whether this deal goes to fruition or was a "low-ball" from the dealer.

gold233790 · December 2004

I was told by more than one BMW dealer that the MF for a 36 mo, 15k lease is currently .00125. I've been seeing .0015 on this site- is this the new December MF, or are my getting "dinged" another way (residual is still 60%)?

kyfdx · December 2004

I think money factors may have just dropped effective yesterday... I don't have specifics.. Probably will know later this week..

gold233790 · December 2004

If so, I think that's a pretty good deal. Probably talking low 6's (pre-tax) on a nicely equipped 530i just north of 50k MSRP.

nyccarguy · December 2004

So we got the price we wanted. Ordered my Mom an '05 530iA Black/Black with Steptronic/PP/Xenon/Cold Weather/Destination.

MSRP: $50,720
Invoice: $46,435
Selling Price: $47,662 (bit more than $1200 over invoice)

Lease for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year and 8.125% Sales Tax rolled into the lease
$0 Cap Cost Reduction
60% residual
.0015mf (Please let me know if this drops)

$651/month

nyccarguy · December 2004

to kyfdx for your help

kyfdx · December 2004

You are welcome..

MF/residual for 530i 36mo/45K is .00125 and 60%

See here: Car_man "Lease Questions - Ask Here" Dec 8, 2004 7:31am

gold233790 · December 2004

Residual has dropped to .00125. Funny- spoke to several dealers in NJ yesterday and was told both numbers. Either they hadn't updated or looked at the opportunity to mark it up. I believe this is legal, correct?

Quick question- my credit averages around 730 between the three agencies. I should be able to get their top rates, correct?

kyfdx · December 2004

I'm not positive on the cutoff, but I would think 730 would qualify you... I think BMW is like Honda... you either qualify or you don't... No second tier numbers...

The ones quoting .00125 are being straight with you..

The ones still quoting .0015 are either too lazy to check again for new numbers, or are keeping the markup for themselves.. They can bump up to .0004 extra (and most of them do).

The numbers you posted earlier look very good, especially with the lower money factor..

nycarguy.. your numbers look very good as well..

2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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