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2013 and earlier - BMW 5 Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    what State are you in ? And are the sales taxes included in the $1900 down ?

    Thanks,
    DL
  • turnbowmturnbowm Member Posts: 76
    The dealer's invoice has MACO (advertising fee) and Training fee added, which are not shown on the edmunds.com invoice. In Los Angeles, these fees run $415 and $180, respectively. This would bring the adjusted dealer invoice up to $47,895.

    I would think that you should be able to get the car for $1000 over the adjusted dealer invoice.

    Remind the dealer that the 2006 530i, with the new 255hp engine, is right around the corner. Trust me, they will deal on 2005s.

    Martin T.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Actually, the Training Fee is included on the Edmunds invoice.. It just isn't broken out, like it is on the dealer's invoice..

    IOW, Dealer invoice + training fee = Edmunds (or KBB) invoice..

    The MACO varies according to region, and some areas don't have it at all... So, that is correct.. you'd have to add that..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yeah. "What goes around comes around" should be posted on huge banners in every dealership in the country.
    But then again, such words only affect people who have consciences.
    "People" as you call them are a lot more informed than they used to be. You may call that "shady." I call that "well, it's about time."
  • yeagerdayeagerda Member Posts: 16
    Are these realistic numbers to expect:

    2005 545 6 spd
    invoice + $1,000
    36mo / 15k mi lease
    mf 0.001, residual 59%

    if not, what is realistic?
    thanks.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Your lease numbers are all correct...

    Dealers can mark up the MF, but the residual is set by BMWFS..

    I have no idea if you can get $1000 over invoice on a $58K-$62K car.. but, if you do, you've got a heck of a lease deal.. especially, if the dealer will use the base rates..

    If they use the base rates, even at $2500 over invoice, the lease price is relatively cheap, relative to the MSRP.

    There hasn't been enough anecdotal evidence on this board, to know if anyone is getting those kind of deals on the 545i.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • sam2005sam2005 Member Posts: 2
    I do not mean "informed" when referring to "Shady". An informed consumer is actually a pleasure to work with because they know what they want and what is realistic. "Shady" consumers outright lie (add comment about car salesperson here) create their own info i.e, money factors, residuals etc and swear they are correct saying "thats what my friend just got last week." To top it off they do not realize when they are getting a value.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    This topic is about pricing/buying experience specific to BMW 5-series vehicles. Please visit our Smart Shopper board for a list of discussions about dealerships, shopping strategies, and sales tactics.

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  • bmbabybmbaby Member Posts: 4
    i have got a quote for a 05 525i with premium package, cold package & auto, satellite prep at MSRP 46800, at $1000 above invoice at $43900. Lease figures at MF.00125, RV 62%, with monthly lease payment of $552. Is this a reasonable deal.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    3yr/36K, right?

    Does your payment include tax? And, what is the breakdown of your "due at signing"?

    If your payment includes tax, how much of it is tax?

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  • petppetp Member Posts: 43
    got the word this morning i was approved by BMWFS on a lease. i remember reading somewhere that if youre approved you lock in the lease rates (MF and residual) for the next two months. is that true?
    so, if next month they come out with dealer inventives (cash back) to get rid of the remaining e60's before the new engines start coming in, will i be able to get both the dealer incentives AND the nice lease rates they have out now?

    thanks very much in advance....getting closer and closer to my new car!!!!
  • petppetp Member Posts: 43
    seems good ONLY IF that 552 includes tax rolled into the payment AND IF there is no money down (except about $1900 in miscellaneous fees) and if its for 36months/12K mi/yr.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    You can use the program in effect now, or the one that comes out in April, or the one in May.. if you take delivery in that month. (You can't use the April program if you lock in March, and take delivery in May).

    But, you can't pick and choose between parts of each program..

    Usually, if they have dealer incentives, the lease rates won't be as good...

    You can't say, "Hey, give me that $3K incentive and use the lease numbers from last month!!"

    Also, the other fly in the ointment... Dealer incentives aren't customer rebates.. Nobody is required to share those with you..

    But, when they put the dealer cash on the cars, the lease numbers usually don't work out quite as good as the pure lease incentives they have now..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    '06 5-series pricing is now out...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Base MSRP for the '06 530i is $47,195 including destination...

    '06 525i... $42,495

    $2200 more for AWD on either one...

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  • bmbabybmbaby Member Posts: 4
    yes it is for 3yrs, 36K. And yes the 552 payment includes tax of about $30. With about 1900 initial signing fee etc.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    To get to $522/mo pretax, I have to roll-in the $625 acq.fee into the cap cost..

    So, that gets you your payment.. But, the due at signing looks a little high then..

    1st payment and security deposit = $1152... So, what accounts for the other $748?

    If the acquisition fee is included in the "due at signing", then the payment looks about $18/mo. too high..

    Otherwise, great deal...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • bmbabybmbaby Member Posts: 4
    the acq fee is up front. also in New jersey, i think 3 years registration etc is payable upfront, which is about $250. So with these upfront payments, how much should the payment be on 43900. How do you arrive at this figure. Please help as this is the first time I am leasing a car.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    At $43,900, I get $505 + tax.. It is a simple spreadsheet calculation.. So, about $17/mo off of your numbers..

    I would ask them what they are using for the CAP cost, and if that is different from $43,900, I'd want to know what they have included..

    If upfront is 1st payment, security deposit, and $625 acq.fee, that equals $1777... so, $1900 seems right for upfront.. Acquisition fee is taxed, so that is another $35 or so.. That leaves about $100 of the upfront for miscellaneous title fees..

    I see about $600 extra in the payment.. I'd just want to know where that comes from...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • turnbowmturnbowm Member Posts: 76
    You're right about the Training fee... it's INCLUDED in the Edmunds.com invoice price.

    The Dealer invoice on the 2005 530i was $41,315 (base) and the added $180 Training fee brings it to $41,495, which almost exactly matches the $41,475 Edmund's base invoice.

    Thanks for the correction.

    Martin T.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Also.. last time I checked, training fee was $160.. which would make it match exactly...

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  • petppetp Member Posts: 43
    dunno what to do. i can either wait 2 weeks and see if there will cash incentives or take the deal right now. id hate to buy the car and find out there will be incentives starting april 1.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Don't know what to tell you.. If you are leasing, I wouldn't bet on it getting any better than it is, right now...

    If you are buying... it can't hurt to wait...

    Disclaimer: It is not MY money...

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  • petppetp Member Posts: 43
    kyfdx, you have been a tremendous help!!! thank you very much!

    may i ask why exactly do you answer all these thousands of posts? you have been here for ages! do you work for edmunds? if not you should be!!!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Hmmm... good question.. I don't know, really...

    I definitely don't work for Edmunds.... If I am, my paycheck has been lost for years....

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  • creviersellercrevierseller Member Posts: 2
    no, that's not realistic........buy rate and a grand over? I guess maybe it the dealer is desperately dumb or the car is some god awfully unsellable configuration.
  • creviersellercrevierseller Member Posts: 2
    anyone have an experience of discounts for ordering a new 2006 530?
  • turnbowmturnbowm Member Posts: 76
    The dealer did mention something about a recent price increase in the Training fee, but at the time didn't give it too much thought.

    Have used Edmunds info for years and have found their numbers to be very accurate. Really helps when negotiating with the dealer. Especially when I make an "Invoice + $amount" offer.

    Martin T.
  • saowin1saowin1 Member Posts: 4
    hi guys
    looking to hear about the best deals you've managed on a 2005 545i (sport, nav at minimum) lease only
    (36 month, 12K)
    thanks
  • yeagerdayeagerda Member Posts: 16
    OK, I assume you have some basis for your statement that invoice + $1k is not realistic? Can you help me with what IS realistic?

    Today I walked out when dealer held firm at invoice + $2,900 on a 545i lease 36/15k, buy rates. The $2,900 was in addition to normal inceptions (tag, title, security dep, 1st month) nor did it include the $825 acq fee. The $2,900 was actually a bit better than the nearly $5,000 from a dealer who contacted me via internet postings a few days ago.

    Do these margins seem high, or is this just what you get with expensive, low volume cars?? Maybe I should go get that Dodge Magnum being offered at under invoice!?

    I'd really like to hear details on '05 545 leases that others have? thanks.
  • cpeterson3cpeterson3 Member Posts: 51
    Swing the ED program if possible. Order your 545i for May delivery, use the 2 for 1 Lufthansa tickets (kick around Munich for 2 days) and lock in todays 5 series heavily subsidized lease rates of a .0013 MF (the .0003 is added due to ED) and 61% residual for 12/36.

    The payment will amaze you. But the kicker is the trip..... is it worth $4K savings over the life of the lease and the wait after you complete the delivery in Munich? that's for you to decide. Run a domestically calculated 325i lease and you'll have your answer - I did.

    -later
  • rjg2rjg2 Member Posts: 4
    Thank you to everyone. I've been reading this board for a few weeks and feel much more prepared to deal.

    Everyone seems in agreement that the current money factor is .00125. Is this number direct from BMWFS? Is is the same in all states? I am in Los Angeles, and I'm being quoted marked-up rates in the neighborhood of .00155 and even .0018. (My credit is excellent and I am a returning lease customer.)

    Is there any reason why I shouldn't be able to negotiate the rate down as far as .00125?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    .00125 is the base money factor set by BMWFS.. It is the same everywhere.. BMWFS allows dealers to mark up the rate by .0004 for extra profit.. You can also waive the security deposit in exchange for another bump of .00015...

    Some dealers won't write lease deals at the base rate.. I wouldn't do business with those dealers.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • big_jimbig_jim Member Posts: 27
    Is there anywhere to view the invoice pricing yet? Everywhere I look (except bmwusa.com) has 2005 numbers. And bmwusa.com only has MSRP.

    Thanks!

    Scott
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    The pdf. file is posted in another forum... Not allowed to link it here.. Against Town Hall rules...

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  • big_jimbig_jim Member Posts: 27
    Found it. Thanks a ton. Now if I could just get my dealer to return my calls and emails. Mind you, I am not incessantly calling and emailing - he initiated email contact and was very good at keeping in touch. Until the past few weeks, when I have been ready to pull the trigger. I think it's time to expand my dealer search. I have a half dozen or more within 200 miles...
  • newxynewxy Member Posts: 2
    I just bought a 2002 530 (no sports package) at 47000 miles from a private party. I paid 27.5K including taxes. It has been a week and it drives great.

    1- Is this a good deal?

    2- It still has 3K miles left on warranty. What would be the best way to utilize the warranty? I was thinking to take it to a BMW dealer and have an oil change -- and hopefully they will tell me if there is a big problem. Any better ideas?

    Thanks a lot..
  • rjg2rjg2 Member Posts: 4
    That's great. Thanks.

    Is the Acquisition Fee a required item or is it a hidden profit source for the dealer? How much should I expect it to be? Are there any other legitimate fees I should expect?

    My expectation is that the only costs should be: 1) the negotiated cost of the car; 2) initial license/registration fees; 3) security deposit (I think this should be waived since I am a returning lessee); and 4) any acquisition fee.

    At signing I should pay: 1) down payment (if any) plus tax; 2) license/registration fees; 3) first months payment plus tax; and 4) security deposit if any.

    Am I correct?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    1) Acquisition fee goes to the bank (BMWFS). Except for NY, it is $625.. dealers may mark it up to $825.

    2) Not sure about the waived security deposit, but its possible.. If not, they will waive it for an increase in the money factor, but that is a bad deal.

    3) All else is correct.

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  • rjg2rjg2 Member Posts: 4
    I just got a response from a dealer who has included something called a MACO Fee of $415 and a Training Service Fee of $180?

    Any ideas?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Those are fees the dealer pays... they are part of the invoice price..

    The only reason they should come up, is if you offer "$XXX over invoice".

    The dealer's invoice + training fee = Edmunds or KBB invoice (or even the BMW pdf. invoice). IOW, if you look up an invoice price on-line, it already includes the training fee.

    MACO is a regional advertising charge.. Again, part of the dealer's wholesale cost.. but, in addition to the invoice you see on-line.

    If you negotiate a straight selling price, neither of these should be added to your deal.. If you are negotiating "invoice plus" or "cost plus", you'll be paying a fee for the janitor to clean the dealer's restrooms....

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  • rjg2rjg2 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks. I did in fact make an "cost plus" offer, and he added these fees to my invoice starting point.

    I'll be on the lookout for the janitorial fee and report back. Any further advice?
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Member Posts: 265
    My 02 530 (sport, 5 spd, 45K) was $33,000 out the door (excluding extended warranty). I feel I got a good deal, but I bought from a dealer and mine was CPO. You pay less for a private party car, but I wanted the security of the dealer's backing plus an extended warranty.

    Regarding the last 3,000 miles of your warranty, do as I am doing: pay attention to everything, and if you have any concerns, get them written up by the dealer before you hit 50K miles. Even if they can't find anything wrong now, if they have a record of a complaint made under warranty, it's covered if it turns into something down the line.

    I hope you have a good independent mechanic lined up for after 50K. And I hope you got the car inspected before you bought it.
  • newxynewxy Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the advice. I am aware that I took some risks, and I hope they won't cost me too much :-).

    I didn't get the car inspected. Given its low price, I bought it right away (it looks clean). I will now take it to a BMW service, I hope they don't charge me too much.

    How much does it cost to get an extended warranty, and is it really worth to get it? I found an independent extended warranty (not BMW CPO) but I wasn't sure how reliable they are (they ask for same price for all types of cars, which I thought was weird) so I took another risk and didn't get that warranty.
  • cmybimmergocmybimmergo Member Posts: 265
    You have to be very careful about third party warranties; some of the companies selling them are not solvent. That said, I have a third party warranty (7 years, 125K miles, $2995). My dealer sold it to me, and for several reasons I trust it. But I dunno how you would go about independently finding a reliable one. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable than I can help you with that.

    I think they're worth it. If my transmission were to blow, that's the cost of the warranty (and then some?) right there. And in my case, I don't expect to be quite as solvent in several months as I am now, so it seemed the obvious choice to spend the money while I have access to it.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Please visit our discussion about Extended Warranties for a bunch of useful information on manufacturer and third-party products.

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  • petppetp Member Posts: 43
    well i finally decided to get the car (it was at the port) but when i called my dealer to tell him to get it, he said it had already gone to the original dealer that ordered it! i could get it if i wanted but that would involve shipping it back and paying a shipping cost. does this make sense, or is the dealer fed up with me :-)
    is there any place online to check dealer inventory?
    thanks
  • bmwgal1bmwgal1 Member Posts: 1
    i am now driving a x5 2003 and have also had a 525i and i lease. i am into my 20 month with only 17000 miles i live in so. cal i can not decided to go with the 530 or 545 or the x5 4.4 i got a lease price last night of 950 a month for a 530 i think that is to high i do not trust dealers they wanted me to put 3600 down including the first month. I just walked away could anyone direct me to a good dealer in southern cal i have been to assal and mckenna i do not want to get ripped off. and also with what i read is it better to wait till the next month for better leasing deals. i have had bad experiences with carsales people.
  • turnbowmturnbowm Member Posts: 76
    petp,

    The same thing happened to me. Hesitated on a 2005 530i that had everything I wanted and by the time I made up my mind, the car was gone! Once a
    buyer makes a deposit on a particular car, that car is no longer available.

    In your particular case, the dealer is merely telling it like it is. Someone has to pay the additional shipping costs and it's NOT going to be the dealer.

    Am not aware of any way that you can obtain dealer inventory info over the Internet. Any dealer, however, can do a search based on your requirements (color, options, etc.) and provide you with a list of available cars. If it's a 2005 that you talking about, you'd better move quick because your choices are becoming very limited.

    Good luck, Martin
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Some Center show their New inventory online ,and some do not. Its a shame that vw,toyo, ect can take the time to take some nice digital pics of their hundereds of vehicles in stock.If you know the Center give it a try.

    DL
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