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Ford Super Duty - Continued

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  • The Ford PSD 1999 and 2000 have torque converter problems... be careful of buying one.. My buddy is on No. 4 with only 12K miles.. I spoke with a Ford mechanic teacher.. he says ford knows about it, no solution as of yet and there are keeping there mouths shut..
    keep to the gas... remember 100K warranty is only on the engine, not the driveline.
  • With complete respect for everyone's opinions and search for knowledge on the subject of the Super Dutys, this is the site where I gained great knowledge and figured out exactly how I wanted to configure my order. I don't know how I could have learned it all in one place like I did. But the extreme demand for these trucks, production/order waits, scheduling, priority codes, allotments and VOPC are relative topical concerns. Anybody reading this site can ask their questions. I haven't fail to see one answered, really, except the question regarding bed rugs. Some comradere exists here because wherever we live, or whatever we do for a living, no matter how old we are or what we want to do with our trucks, we do have this in common, and that, my friends, is kinda' cool. I have seen some of the banter, for a nice description, on other sites around here, and I am glad that this site has maintained respectful language and attitudes towards each other and our opinions. Should the moderator split the subject? I do know that this site is a biggie, but there's a reason for that. A split would be ok. How many of you out there would check out both sites if it splits? I would. Thanks for letting me lecture and ramble.
  • I have to agree with gthilton. After reading some of the idiocy on other threads, coming back to this one is a refreshing change of pace. As for keeping the 'conversation' on Super Duty issues (not orders, etc.) remember that it IS a conversation. If you want to know physical details about the truck - ASK!!! It's obvious from reading the posts that several of us are about to receive our trucks. I have no doubts that when we do, there will be several posts regarding ride, MPG, troubles, etc. But right now, those of us actively posting are waiting for the hardware! If you want the tone of the posts to change, then get involved and ask questions - don't just 'throw stones'.
  • I'm about ready to order a f350 psd.
    -Anyone else having problems with the torque converters?
    -What about the shift on the fly? Seems like I read something about them awhile back...
    Thanks in advance....
  • I guess my Kenny Rogers crap pushed some people over the edge. SORRY!! Gee, I've learned all kind of stuff on this site from general to technical. Some of the topics were so technical it reminded me of reading US Navy Submarine Electronics Manuals.....put me to sleep....but the posts were informative. I think anyone here would answer a question about anything to do with a Super Duty truck. I for one am glad that there is light-hearted talk going on in here. I plan on posting in here after I get my truck........kinda drive them crazy.......As for the whiners.....go make your own topic titled "Boring Super Duty Talk"....and let us people who post in here do so the way we like it.......sorry if I sound like an *sshole but there are ALWAYS people who have to complain about something so trivial.....thats why I own my own business (sign business)....when I encounter some meanspirited person who I know is going to be a pain...I give them a VERY high price knowing I won't ever have to deal with them!!!!

    Everyone else......great to know you and keep on keepin' on!!!!!!
    Theres my two cents.....maybe three!!
  • lewaclewac Posts: 151
    relating to nut4scuba's post regarding torque converters. we've not seen any posts prior to this regarding the problem, but... if this was a major issue those that have had trucks for awhile most certainly would have posted similar. nut4scuba, maybe the truck/dealership is "lemonade"? we've seen some posts indicating that the PSD/auto tranny is not the best match if the intention is pulling heavy loads (which is the only reason you really ought to be ordering the psd to begin with). one of the reasons we ordered the manual over the auto is inherent robustness. that isn't to say that the manual won't give problems, but it's probably less likely to do so than the auto tranny, where both are being used under similar circumstances. (tractor rigs mostly use manuals, right?). of course the downside to the manual is you need all 4 appendages to be working pretty good or it gets "old" real fast. we'd feel confident with the auto if we were ordering gas, but with that diesel working right around 500 little footers most of the time we opted for the manual as we felt it was a better "match".
  • lewaclewac Posts: 151
    just read on another board that the 54E (option code) Telescoping power mirrors ARE available (as of 9/20/99). we're switching our order from 54Y (non-telescoping power tow mirrors) to 54E. note that this should not hold up your truck build if you've got a week or so b4 the actual "hatch".

    crazyelvis... 'ain't you got your hands on that truck yet?

    our 2 cents worth in regard to this board. we'd not change a thing. if you're looking for info in regard to most any aspect relating to the sd's this is the place. if it does split, though, the moderator needs to keep all past posts available as there's a wealth of info contained within if you've the patience read same.
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    happyquilt,

    There were some problems with the ESOF when the trucks were first introduced in early 1998. Ford made the fix at the factory in late Spring of 1998. I took delivery of my truck in October of 1998. I have had no problems with the ESOF through the first 23,000+ miles and have used it in extreme temps (Dallas heat and Alaskan/Canadian winter).
  • no not yet......hopefully on Friday!!!!! It is driving me CRAZY!!
  • mikey43mikey43 Posts: 74
    Whatever happened to Dave the Chevy lover?
  • mikey43mikey43 Posts: 74
    Saw my first Ford Excursion on the road today. Funny, it looks a LOT like my F250 CC SWB 4x4 with cab high cap. Except I think mine sits a little higher. I don't need to carry 8 passengers and I have a lot more cargo space. Also, I think I paid a hell of a lot less.
  • Thanks for the up date on the 54E mirrors. My vehicle is still clean and unscheduled. It's nice to know that the mirrors won't be holding it up.I think this conference has been great, wouldn't change a thing. I vote no split. Last post 804.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Would anyone like to add to, or amend, the pros and cons as I see them.

    ESOF
    For:
    Finger tip control.
    Easier to use 'on the fly'.
    Auto/Manual Hubs. (this is a plus because if the vacuum fails, the hubs can be locked manually).

    Against:
    Extra cost (minimal).
    Two more things to possibly fail (vacuum and electrical connection).
    No 'Neutral' position, therefore no PTO and the inability to have the vehicle towed easily with all wheels on the ground.

    Manual
    For:
    Less complex.
    Positive engagement.
    Lower cost (minimal).
    Manual hubs (less complex).
    Neutral position available (PTO/towing etc.)

    Against:
    Big ugly lever :-)
    No 'shift on the fly' unless hubs are pre-engaged.

    Did I leave anything out? In spite of the above, I still lean toward ESOF, probably for the same reason that I'll go for a Lariat rather than an XLT.
  • I wish I could sleep down there......but can't. Wife would think I had a girlfriend or something. I want to call Ken...salesman....but I know he can't do anything to get it the 20 miles it needs to go.....hopefully it will get there in the next few days. I hate answering the phone now....I think it will be Ken with my truck....My wife called home.....I work out of my house....4 times today.....I think I was less than polite after #4...I told her to stop calling....oh well I'll have to take her to dinner......Oh ya....to leave something concerning a truck topic....ummmm....ummmm..... does putting a borla exhaust mess with the warantee at all????
  • newf3newf3 Posts: 2
    Got more info from the Rammers than I can possibly handle. Wow are they a proud bunch!! Nuts4scuba, thank you for taking a moment of your time. I guess the others aren't up to the challenge. That in itself answered my question. A couple of your posts say you can find out anything here. I guess that is when you aren't to busy *itchin at each other about splitting the topic!! To coin a phrase, I guess I'm Cummin not strokin.
  • What kind of mileage is expected on a f350 psd, auto w/3:73 rear end? Is 15 realistic?
    Would 4:10's get better mileage pulling a 26' travel trailer because you could possibly engage the overdrive?
    Thanks again...
  • kubeskubes Posts: 23
    Picked up my F250 SD Lariat CC SB 4X4 V10 3:73LS yesterday.
    What a truck - it was woth the 5 month wait. I already put on a SnugTop Expo shell and BedRug today.
  • Hkeith- sorry I have been offline for a few. I have a Lariat I think the mirrors are the older version. Ordered 7/27/99 (I will confirm this when I can look at my order form) they do not telescope manually or otherwise.
    Happyquilt I have a psd cc 3.73 F250 and the lowest mileage so far was 14.51 the best was 15.9. I was pulling my boat for part of the 14.51 tank. (2700SCR Maxum 10,000# + on trailer) so I would expect lower mileage. Turns 2100 RPM at 71MPH.
  • gthilton: If you check post #810, I never received a response from anyone. It's hardly that I feel neglected, I'm just surprised that no one seems to know someone who has the Gear Vendors OD behind a V-10 yet. Or, if anyone even thinks it is a good idea. I plan on getting one, but would like to know if they are any good first.
  • jimsrsjimsrs Posts: 21
    Well kids here are some new facts from Ford. I'm surprised I haven't seen any posts on this info. The V-10 for 2000 now pumps out 310 horses and 425 pounds of torque (insert "grunt" here). ABS is now standard for xlt and lariat models. Ahh, can you feel the rush? The V-10 sales are on the up swing as compared to 99' where the psd held 65% of the sales. Another important note. As for priority codes the 10 does not amount to much. This will not "speed up" the order. The dealer's give all the orders 10's. Even an 11 or 12 won't get your rig sooner. Hang in there. We're at the mercy of the plant. I'll give you more info soon. Jimsrs
  • I guess maybe my delivery of my opinion on spliting this topic was wrong. If I offended anyone, then please accept my appologies. That wasn't my intension at all. I agree this is a great place to gain info about Ford SD's.

    Don't get me wrong here... I'm not whining but being very serious here. I come to this site to find out about possible problems, upgrades, and fixes to the SD's. It's very informative and almost everyone has a mature attitude, which is a refreshing change from most message boards. It's just that, for some reason, this topic is almost all about people waiting for their ordered truck with post like... "Only 2 more weeks, I can't wait", "It left the plant yesterday!", "It's on it's way!!!", and "Still waiting...". This kinda takes the "Informative" part away from these great message boards.

    I also look through the Dodge Ram and Chevy topics, and they don't even come close to having this many messages like I mentioned above. They're more to the point and informative on their subject.

    Gaining information on how to track a truck being built is well within the topic, but having to "drudge" through tons of uninformative postings gets kind of annoying at times.

    I know there will be people bashing my comments mentioned above, and that's OK. I'm definitely not trying to upset anyone, just bringing up an issue. That's all! If most people feel otherwise, then I will drop the issue completely. But I felt it at least needed addressing.

    All-in-all, I have gain a lot of valuable info in this topic. I think it's great!
  • dave86dave86 Posts: 13
    jimsrs: ABS is NOT standard on XLTs. It was for a short time back in June/July when Y2K orders were first being taken, but that has changed. Dealers do NOT place all orders with a priority level of 10. Mine was placed as a 15 in March, and I got the truck in seven weeks. A LOWER number means a HIGHER priority. 10 is the best priority level that a dealer can assign. A zone/regional rep. (whatever they call themselves) can assign a better (lower) priority, and this SHOULD result in earlier build/delivery dates, if all the parts are available at the plant for the configuration ordered.

    Bad information is worse than no information.

    mac24: ESOF does not limit PTO use or towing with all four wheels on the ground. True, there is no "neutral" position on the ESOF switch, as there is on the manual shift lever, but placing the transmission in neutral will obviously disconnect the engine from the wheels. As far as the ESOF vacuum system goes, if it breaks, all one has to do is manually switch the hubs to the "lock" position. The dash switch will still control the transfer case.

    not4scuba and newf3: If you want tons of accurate, up-to-date information on the Super Duty Power Stroke Diesel, and lots of opinions about it as well (especially in comparison to the Cummins), you owe it to yourselves to check out www.ford-diesel.com; look in the Forums section under 1999 and Up.

    Dave
  • brett039...guess we all kinda jumped ya for your post - sorry. From what I've seen on this thread, folks are generally pretty receptive of others' opinions - none of the immature personal attacks that you see on others. That makes it fun to read and informative. Your opinion is well taken and I'd encourage those our there with 'real-life' experience on the hardware to post with some info. For those of us playing the waiting game, the only thing we have to discuss is the order process and the 'night before Christmas' feeling. I think the tone will change dramatically when the trucks start to arrive and folks start to 'play'.

    jimsrs -- I've been strugglin' with the ABS for a long time - my dealer swears that it is NOT std. on XLT - my order has $319 in it for this. This has been consistent on all information I've received EXCEPT the Edmunds site. Where did you get your info? Man I hope you are right, but I sure can't convince my dealer - they go off what the factory system tells them. Any solid proof (more than just Edmund's price list) would be great ammo for pressing the dealer. Incidentally, how do you go about checking if your truck HAS 4-wheel ABS???

    newf3 -- have not found much 'chest thumping' on this thread like you do on others. As far choosing Dodge over Ford - after the past three years of driving a Dakota, I'll never buy another Dodge truck again. I'm just grateful I leased it so I can dump it. Looking forward to getting back to FORD for the full-size.

    ESOF -- has anyone had any trouble with ESOF? I decided NOT to go for it for much that same reasons as gossamar and mac24 stated. Fewer things to go wrong - somehow I just feel more confident turning the hubs and pulling that gear than just pushing a button. Weird quirk I know, especially for a guy who designs electronic systems. Just wondering what kind of luck folks are having with the ESOF. If I was honest, I'd have to admit that part of my decision was to pass on to my sons the joy of getting out in the mud and snow and muck to turn the hubs. Hey, I had to do it on my Dad's Bronco - no reason they should miss out on all the fun!
  • mikey43mikey43 Posts: 74
    I've had my V10 F250 CC SWB with ESOF since April. Haven't used the ESOF very much, maybe 8 - 10 times, but never had any problems (so far). Also, I haven't thought too much about how the mechanics of it work, but my rig has ESOF and the PTO transmission. Have never used the PTO, and probably never will, but I can't imagine that Ford would build a combination of options that are mechanically imcompatable. Or maybe I give them too much credit for intelligence?
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    I use the ESOF alot in the winter. If I was pushing a snowplow regularly or doing a lot of off-roading, I'd have to do some additional research, but for my use, the ESOF was the practical option. Since you're not suppose to use 4wd on dry pavement, the ESOF allows you to shift in and out of 4wd as conditions change. It's convenient to be able to shift from 2wd on the dry hwy to 4wd when I exit and hit some slick side streets. I also use it alot to when exiting a parking lot on to a busy street. I need 4wd to get me safely out into traffic, but I often don't need it once I'm out in the traffic. So, the ESOF maximizes my time in 2wd, which should give the 4wd components a longer life. Like I said, my ESOF has worked flawlessly so far and I've used quite a bit.

    My 92 F-250 had a different kind of shift on the fly system that was not vaccuum driven. You shifted the transfer case on the floor from the 2wd to the 4wd drive setting (or 4wd low) and then you back up 10 feet and it engages. I could then shift between 2wd and 4wd when I was driving forward. However, if you shift it back to 2wd on the fly and then back up 10 feet (such as in a parking lot), you could no longer shift on the fly going forward, unless you put the transfer case back in 4wd and backed up again. Like I said, it's totally different now.

    Ford may have changed their ABS policy for 2000, but in 1999, it's my understanding that the policy was that ABS is standard equipment on all vehicles with GVWRs over 10,000 pounds. That means that it was only standard on duallys and F-450 and F-550 trucks since the F-350 SRW and F-250 SRW have GVWRs of 9,900 and 8,800 pounds, respectively.

    Brett, the conversation will shift once this group of people gets their trucks. This happens occasionally when enough people have trucks on order. I started participating in the Pickups townhall in late 1997. The orginal Superduty topic was started in early 1998. That topic maxed out late last year, so they froze it and started this new one. If you can find the old topic in the archives, you'll see that there was a lot of discussion about delivery issues last year when the truck was first introduced. But, then it shifted to more talk about the trucks as people started getting their trucks and giving feedback. The same will happen again.

    Like you and everyone else has said, there is still a lot of useful info on this site. Prior to the creation of the Superduty topic, I actually learned a ton from the guys in the Dodge topics and, yeah, even from an occasional knowledgeable Chevy owner.
  • dave86dave86 Posts: 13
    In my post #890 above, I should have said that 4 wheel ABS is not standard on F-250 XLTs. It is an option, as smccarthy says in post #891. Rear wheel only ABS is standard on the F-250 Super Duty XLTs. 4 wheel ABS is standard on all Lariat models and on (I believe) all trucks with a 10,000 lbs. and over GVWR. I believe this includes the F-350 DRW (dually) models. Sorry for any confusion.

    I have ESOF, and in the few times I've engaged either 4wd high or low since I took delivery of my truck on April 30 this year, it has worked flawlessly. I expect to use it a lot more once the snow starts to fly here in Maine (which could be tomorrow, you never know in northern New England). Ford did have some ESOF issues with early production Super Duty trucks, but a factory fix was devised and those trucks effected were repaired at Ford's expense under either a TSB or SSM (I can't remember which).

    For those not familiar with ESOF, there are still dials on the front hubs. Instead of the dial positions being "LOCK" and "FREE" as they are on non-ESOF trucks, ESOF hubs are either in "AUTO" or "LOCK". In the auto position, everything is controlled from the ESOF switch on the dash, using vacuum to lock and unlock the front hubs. For shifting to 4wd high, this can be done on the fly. Going to 4wd low requires coming to a complete stop and putting the transmission in neutral before shifting to low range. Going back to 2wd does not require shifting to reverse and backing up the truck to unlock the hubs as some "shift on the fly" systems do. Simply select 2wd on the dash switch, and watch the 4x4 light in the instrument cluster extinguish.

    If the vacuum system for locking/unlocking the front hubs is broken, or you don't like/trust/want to rely on it, you can always stop the truck, get out (or have your significant other get out), and lock in the hubs manually. My old '87 F-150 had manual hubs. I never had a problem with them mechanically, but I don't like to drive around with the hubs locked unless I really need the front traction, and getting out to lock the hubs in every kind of nasty weather got old. Call me lazy, but the relatively minor cost of ESOF was well worth it to me.

    Dave
  • dave86dave86 Posts: 13
    You slipped yours in while I was composing mine. Well said. The only thing I would add is that for those who go with manual (non-ESOF) hubs, they can still switch between 2wd and 4wd as road conditions allow, without stopping and getting out to change the hubs, by shifting the transfer case. This means the hubs will be locked while driving in 2wd. Not that big a deal, but as I said in my previous post, I don't like to do this; it decreases fuel economy and increases wear on front drive train components. But, to each his own.

    Dave
  • Thanks for the site referal dave86 and lewac for the comment. In fact my buddy is going for the lemon law on his PSD. He loves the truck, but its eating the torque converters. It is a simple test that by grounding out a pin on the electrical connector on the right side of the transmission, it causes the t.c. to engage at an idle. This is not what is supposed to occur. His neighbor is a ford mechanic teacher, an taught him the test. I wont say anymore about the test until I get the exact pin number to be grounded verified. I dont want ppl burning things up.
    Also, I don't get the priority order number status. My new F350 was ordered on 9-15-99, priority 16 and will be here nov, 8th. My dealer is a truck dealer only. Maybe that has something to do with the quick order time. Gonna stay with the gas V10 though.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I stand corrected on the PTO issue. Thanks guys. However, on the matter of being towed with all wheels on the ground (and with all due respect to Dave86), I'll stick with Fords '99 Towing Guide. This states that ESOF equipped F Series can NOT be towed like this. Apparently just putting the main transmission in neutral will not cut it. When the vehicle is being towed, the internals of the transfer case, and its connection the gearbox, are all being forced to rotate and this is what causes the problem. If the transfer case can be placed into neutral then this doesn't occur. Why this is a problem I don't know, maybe because the loads are in the opposite direction from normal? Any ideas?
  • BrutusBrutus Posts: 1,113
    My owner's manual clearly states that my truck cannot be towed with all wheels on the ground. Actually, I think it says that it shouldn't be towed with any wheels on the ground. I want to say that it's recommended to use one of the flatbed tow trucks.
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