Nissan Armada

driftracer · May 2004

the laws are already in place for "exchanges and refunds" (for "significant" issues) and those laws were AUTHORED by legal representatives from the auto manufacturers.

They authored the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act and had it pushed through Congress to say "look what we're doing for consumers!". Then, they almost never do a voluntary buy back, and when suit is filed against them, they fight tooth and nail 'til the bitter end. A serious contradiction and Catch 22.

Every state's "lemon law" is based on the Mag-Moss Act and adds or supplements things unique to each state.

ksloan77 · May 2004

that was no personal attack on you, just merely an observation....you claimed to be the expert and made the statement. tell me this, what (if anything) impairs the value of a car? are you saying that my armada is not "of less value" since anyone with hearing would laugh at me if i tried to sell it to them? what qualifies as a reduction in value?

in other words, when you buy a new vehicle they are also selling you a warranty, and the sales agreement (to my knowledge) did not have a clause that said anything like "this vehicle will squeak, rattle, and vibrate after purchase" ---- so they are obligated to fix the vehicle. and they have up to 4 attempts to do so. so, if they can't fix it, and anyone with hearing can also hear it, then the market value of the vehicle is affected....i.e. the lemon law applies.

driftracer · May 2004

does not constitute a defect -

1) How does this affect use? Can you not operate the vehicle? Start the engine, put it in gear, and go? Doesn't affect use.

2) How does this affect safety? Is the truck going to blow up because you have a rattle? No. Are children unsafe? No.

3) How does it affect value? There's a fix for the problem, either here now or forthcoming. There have been many "glitches" with new vehicles that have had no affect on value (the Toyota Sequoia was referenced a few posts back) - as a licensed appraiser with over 15,000 vehicles behind me (bought, sold, and evaluated), you can't convince me on that one.

Is it annoying? Sure. Would we win a lemon law trial? Absoluetly not.

ksloan77 · May 2004

you seem to be under the impression that the roof problem is a "rattle"...not even close! does a rattle cause headaches??? do your ears hurt from the compression of the roof vibrating????

so even by your limited standards of what does in fact cause a reduction in value, or something that does not meet the expressed warranty of the vehicle....the roof problem would apply to the lemon law. furthermore, there is no fix for the problem, they may be one coming if you can believe what nissan says....(service manager just told me yesterday that the brackets that they thought were going to fix the problem have been put on hold because they are not fixing the problem, just making it better, so engineers are re-designing them again). so as of today, there is a major problem with the vehicle, and they have already had 8 chances to fix it (far more than the 4 required), and it is still not fixed. i am not required to "wait" until a fix "might" come along from nissan to pursue lemon law compensation right now. and it will be a slam dunk.

driftracer · May 2004

but I wish you luck.

popinjay · May 2004

or lack thereof, anyway. If I never buy another Nissan it won't be because of the quality of the armada, it'll be because of the quality of the service at the dealerships.....from the buying experience to the routine maintenance experience. I tried to schedule my armada for a saturday oil change this past week, and it took me 3 phone calls and one email to get it done. Seems you actually had to speak to a service 'advisor' who was actually gonna be working on saturday. I thought they were putting me on. Well they were never available to speak with anyway. I had one voicemail go ananswered and one email go unanswered. Anyway, after all that, it was $50 to change the oil and rotate the tires. Call me crazy, but it didn't strike me as a particularly good deal. Why is it that when a buddy of mine takes their $30k USED lexus into a lexus joint for service they're not only treated to lunch but also given a brand new loaner? I take my 40k armada into nissan (or try to, anyway) and am treated like the newspaper at the bottom of the birdcage.
So far I like the truck. Can't say the same for Nissan service.

Note: Bowke...your dealership offers excellent customer service, I'm sure..so there's no need to take me out to the woodshed.

mess · May 2004

Dido!!!!!!! I could only say "you are correct sir"

gkatz1 · May 2004

I have no doubt that Nissan Service Depts are under the same constraints as other depts. Overzealous cost cutting has the same result everywhere, low quality.

tiggerguy · May 2004

Is pretty good so far..certainly not like a Lexus dealer, but better than any GM dealer I have had service at. They have a drive in carport to drop your vehicle off in, with a door for the service dept. right there. They don't offer vehicles, but DO offer a shuttle service. I DID get them to pay for a rental on one instance when I said I really needed a car- my salesman set me up with that, it was only a Corolla, but I still didn't have to pay for it. They don't wash my vehicle like they do at my Mercedes dealer, and I usually get it back with fingerprints all over the doors and hood, but still, it's been relatively pleasant. They also have late hours a few days a week (8pm) and are fully open on Saturdays.

gkatz1 · May 2004

All that sounds really good. Now, read your invoice. "Tech could not duplicate problem".

lucas2 · May 2004

Popinjay, if you got the QX56, your service experience would be entirely different. Took my QX in today for service (oil change only) and the shaking DVD screen. The infiniti techs were totally honest and said they knew what I meant with the DVD screen, and wished they could fix it, but infiniti didn't come out with the service bullitin yet. They said as soon as infiniti comes out with the fix they will call me.

Oh yeah, hey gave me a brand new G35 coupe loaner to tool around in. (for an oil change!!) They know that eventually you are going to test their whole product line through service loaners and buy your next car from them.

Truck was washed, waxed, and tires spit shined when I picked it up.

Forgot to mention that my other two cars are nissans. A maxima and pathfinder, and i do have to say it always seems like pulling teeth with the Nissan dealer in regards to service. awhile back a few posts compared the extra $8k you pay for the QX56 over the armada and one of the the arguments for the extra "value' of the QX was for service. I don't believe you can really quantify that value until you experinece it - its nice to live the good (infiniti) life!

offroadnarmada · May 2004

I have never understood how someone could pay an extra 5-15K for a vehicle that is almost completely identical to another, save the badge. If the service is as good as the last few posters have stated, I completely understand... But then again a vehicle shouldn't have to see the shop that often. I guess in the QX56's case (assuming that they have the same quality issues as the Armadas), the extra "service insurance" pays off.

As for rentals, so far everytime my vehicle has been in the shop, I have been given one. Typically a Neon, but a rental nonetheless. I was informed that my warranty covered this. Does this only apply to those of us with extended warranties? (Trust me, 1/3 of the extra I payed has already been spent on rentals alone!)

stever · May 2004

Lemon law isn't an exclusive remedy in many states, so I suspect you could sue for some diminution of value claim and try to convince the judge that your car roof vibrates or dash board rattles so much that it's unsellable.

Or so lots of attorney sites (like this one) seem to say.

Seems like it's about time to set up a Problems and Solutions board for the Armada.

Steve, Host

indy93 · May 2004

This chat seems like a tryout for spin doctors! Nissan PR is working over time....or people don't seem to have a life.

bowke28 · May 2004

"diminution of value" wont apply. he already had an offer to buy it from a lincoln dealer.

offroadnarmada · May 2004

If someone offers to buy a vehicle, the value could still be diminished, couldn't it? I mean, if the dealership offered a significantly lower amount than the vehicle is actually worth, the value has been diminished, right?

bowke28 · May 2004

because a buyer will naturally try to buy an item for as little as possible. he was offered $34k for it. retail value on a 4x4 LE that stickered at $45k is about $39k. sounds to me like they knew he "just wanted to get rid of it".

ksloan77 · May 2004

actually, the way it went down was .... the lincoln dealer offered $34k, but said he put in a call to a nissan dealer in the next town, about 15 miles away. the lincoln guy said "look, i will have a hard time moving this vehicle because it's new (5,500 miles), and people coming in here will automatically assume there is something wrong with it...why else would a new nissan product be at a lincoln dealer"? he went on to say "when the nissan dealer gets back to me and if he offers $35k, $36K, or $38k, whatever he will pay, i will pass that along to you" --- here is the rub: the lincoln dealer called me the next day (as it was late in the afternoon when i stopped by the day before), and he said, "i have some bad news...the nissan dealer called this morning and said they had no interest in giving me a bid on your armada." he said, that was very unusual, and he wasn't sure why they would not want to even give a bid on a nearly new loaded up vehicle...of course i didn't tell him my opinion as to why the nissan dealer had no interest in bidding on it!

ksloan77 · May 2004

i will say this about my dealer regarding this type of service. they give FREE oil changes, and wash the vehicle every time you take it in for service....of course the paint is about washed off of my armada from all the trips to the service department!

bowke28 · May 2004

"of course i didn't tell him my opinion as to why the nissan dealer had no interest in bidding on it!"

probably because they knew it was yours. ksloan, im not trying to snipe at you, but the attitude you show to other people on here is telling.

if your attitude was like that in MY dealership, i would refuse to bid on it simply out of spite.

having said that, you WERE offered money for it. $34k.

offroadnarmada · May 2004

I am not referring to any actual events, of course a dealership is going to offer the bare minimum. What I mean is, a dealer offers $xx,xxx for a vehicle worth that price (given it is used and not a "new" vehicle), finds out about the issues with the roof (and whatever else), and drops the offered price due to this. Now, since the dealer knows people will test-drive before buying and most likely experience this issue, the driver will not be willing to pay what the vehicle "should" be worth, so the dealer will not buy it for what they "should" pay. It only makes sense, but it still depriciated the value of the vehicle.

bowke28 · May 2004

mr. sloan did as much to depriciate the value as the resonance.

chasmanz28 · May 2004

your wrong once again about what the armada is worth, i got that same offer at 2 dealerships 34k thats right, when i wanted to trade in my armada, a couple of them didn't even want the suv, what does that tell you about resale value? i just luck out on the loss i took it could have been alot worse, anybody thinking about trading in there armada better hope they get a good price, if i had to do it all over again i would have waited until the BBB settle the case to have nissan buy back the armada

driftracer · May 2004

and most consumers have no clue about, is that unless the dealership can move a vehicle in a day or two, the average (not highline) dealer balks at the idea of tying up $35-40k in used invetory money.

While the new cars are on a floor plan with a lender, used invetory comes straight out of the dealer's cash flow....

They want that money on the quick-turning $10k cars and trucks that everyone can afford. I've passed on many trades or bidding on a trade in my career, simply because I didn't want to tie up the money - had nothing to do with the service history of a vehicle.

chasmanz28 · May 2004

your right and i was shocked to say the least, dealerships hide those facts of how much you lose after you make the purchase, if they told me ok pay 43k for an armada and if you plan to trade it in anytime soon you'll lose 10 to 15k of your hard earned money, they wouldn't sell to many

driftracer · May 2004

"dealerships hide those facts of how much you lose after you make the purchase"

Nobody's hiding anything - what's with acting like there's some Roswell conspiracy? EVERY vehicle, except maybe a Ferrari Enzo, depreciates at least 10-20% at first - some up to 50% in the first year, like Tauruses and Cavaliers.

offroadnarmada · May 2004

I don't understand your implications, but I will take your word for it...

Personally, I never saw myself purchasing a new vehicle. It is definately given that the vehicle's value will depriciate simply by placing a down payment. But if you plan on keeping the vehicle, it shouldn't matter too much. Personally, until my baby's engine falls out, I'm keeping her (much in love).

Speaking of engine, how is everyone coming along with gas mileage? Personally, I am still getting an average 13 MPG. I averaged 17 from a two and a half hour drive... I have also noticed that my foot hardly stays off the pedal

vmccaul · May 2004

Hate to tell you people, but driftracer is correct. It is a fact of life that when you buy ANY new car (other than those exotics driftracer mentions) you lose 15-20% just walking out the door. This coupled with the fact that the dealer expects to make at least 1000 bucks on the trade would put the Armada trade in right around 34K. I thought everyone knew this...sad but true. If you don't believe me do a search yourself

chasmanz28 · May 2004

what dont you understand, when i bought my armada i asked about the resale value of nissan in general, they said very high cant lose, then when i wanted to trade it in they said you would lose your shirt, if thats not hiding the facts or a double standard i dont know what is

popinjay · May 2004

If you're in the game of buying cars and then trading them in after a short period of time, wouldn't a rational person expect to lose money?
And if the dealerships give such lowball offers, sell it yourself. I sold my toyota truck in december and made at least 2k more than what I would have received on trade in. Sold it in one day with a $50 ad. And the buyer didn't even test drive it, if you can believe it. Maybe I just have an honest face.

driftracer · May 2004

who would indicate that a vehicle wouldn't depreciate (at least SOME) is an idiot, looking for a conflict.

The Armada is cool, no doubt, but it's not a fad vehicle like the VW Beetle, Mini Cooper, and PT Cruiser were when they hit the market - car biz folks were getting more than MSRP at auction for those things -

Look at a car like the Lexus SC430 - they went for $2500-5000 over MSRP, they'd pull MSRP at auction all day long - it's died down some now, but for a while, they were the golden goose.

I don't know what to tell you about your salesman's statement - he's not smart for saying that, and you were naive to believe it - on any vehicle.

driftracer · May 2004

if you're really looking to get the last dollar on your vehicle, especially a high dollar rig where the percentages get way out of whack between trade and retail figures, trading it is the LAST place to go.

Throw it on ebay!

vmccaul · May 2004

Offroadn...yep that's about what I get. 13mpg in town and 17 on the highway. We did get 19mpg on one trip, but I think we had a tail wind. And yeah, our shoes seem to have a bit of lead in them also.

presplan · May 2004

is the resonance issue fixed in the cars being delivered now?

popinjay · May 2004

Chasman...I'm not trying to make light of the situation, but if you expect nothing but the God's honest truth out of a car salesman (or possibly any salesman) then you're a lot more trusting than this here cynical soul. When I walked into the dealership for the first time to see the armada, it was all I could do to keep from rolling on the floor laughing because of what the salesman was trying to lay on me. I had done my homework on the truck, but he obviously knew nothing about it. Didn't stop him any, though. You ever see the 'curb your enthusiasm' episode where larry david wants to try his hand at selling cars? 'nuff said. (I'm hoping bowke forgives me for this rant).

My armada consistenty averages about 15 mpg. that's a daily mixture of freeway/non freeway driving. I also average about 3 spills a day from the kids in the back seat.

bowke28 · May 2004

there is no diminished value...

"........ 7k with all the junk ..? .. there kinda floating all over the place right now - "hard money" would be around the $32/$33ish range, anything over that would put you on the last Greyhound bus out of Vegas ....

Terry."

this is from Terry on the "real world trade-in values" board.

stever · May 2004

Seems to me if you have 2 otherwise identical cars to sell and one has a lot of NVH and the other doesn't, the quiet one will command more money. At least to those of us who aren't buying ones getting pushed through the yard at the auto auctions.

This isn't much like the BMW paint job case (link), but cars don't ordinarily have resonating roofs. Seems like one that does should be fixed under warranty or replaced.

Steve, Host

bscott · May 2004

This is to everyone I haven't purchased an Armada yet by I have test driven several and I'm in love with the SUV but I'm waiting
until the 2005 models come out to purchase one . Now as far as problems every new vehicle that come out on the market for the very first time will have problems . You'll have to realize everyone is not perfect. And engineers that build and design the vehicles are not right all of the time, so what I would do is be patient nissan will deliver a better Armada in 2005 hopefully with the changes that will make everyone happy. And I'm not a car salesman and have nothing to do with Nissan products I'm just willing to wait another year to purchase my baby.

offroadnarmada · May 2004

Should I expect to get much better gas mileage? Currently, she has around 3700 miles. My daily commute consists of just about 50/50 city/highway, yet I'm getting the mileage of most who drive just city...

This didn't bother me until the gas prices went from 1.5 to 1.6 and now 1.88 for a gallon of 87 Octane... (the reasons behind this are for another forum, of course)

stever · May 2004

My Nissan van's mpg didn't stop climbing until I hit 10,000 miles, so I think there's a good chance your Aramada will improve some too.

Steve, Host

nwarmada · May 2004

I installed the basic K & N drop in air filter at 8700 miles. I have been averaging 14.4-14.7 mpg with 80% of that city driving in hilly terrain. I just filled up and my average since putting in the filter is up to 15.2 mpg under the same driving conditions. Although this is rather small every penny saved counts. I would be interested in hearing if anyone else has had similiar success with a K & N filter in their Armada.

nycguy · May 2004

The DVD player on my Armada went on the fritz recently and I took it in to the dealership to have it replaced. Apparently, several coins fell in through the DVD slot and fried the machine. The dealership refuses to pick up the cost of a replacement and wants to charge me $1200 for a new one.

It's clear that coins from the poorly designed coin tray fell out and into the DVD machine. I'll be contacting Nissan to see if they will replace the machine at their cost. Has anyone else had this problem?

ksloan78 · May 2004

bowke28, i'm not trying to snipe at you either....but if you're the example of nissan service, then it's clear to see why so many of us are dissapointed with service from nissan dealers.

ksloan78 · May 2004

look bowke, the nissan dealer didn't know it was mine...
if there ever was a really bad, negatitive attitude on here, it is coming from you.

llajumpvid · May 2004

"It's clear that coins from the poorly designed coin tray fell out and into the DVD machine." - Maybe that's why it seems like a large majority of us were shorted the change tray? You don't happen to have a toddler do you???? That sounds like something mine would do:)

I'd think you could buy a replacement aftermarket DVD player for $100-$200...not sure though if you could use the existing wiring though?

stever · May 2004

Lots of opinions in the K&N Air Filters, bolt-on power? discussion. I'm in the "if it works, why don't the manufacturers use it to help meet their CAFE requirements?" camp.

btw, let's stick to the Armada and avoid the personal sniping please.

Steve, Host

chasmanz28 · May 2004

your right but i didn't know i would have all the problems i had with the armada, trading it in was the last resort, just couldn't take it no more im sure you understand, like i said i let my heart lead me to buy the armada instead of what my brain was telling me to do and wait until they work the bugs out, oh well you learn by your mistakes for sure

bowke28 · May 2004

"the nissan dealer didn't know it was mine..."

yeah...sure. and how many people are trying to trade a brand new armada in your area? dude...its their BUSINESS to know it was yours.

tiggerguy · May 2004

for a gallon of gas! We're at $2.09 in western Massachusetts. Kinda brings you to your knees on a weekly basis. I'm averaging around 15.8 mixed city/highway- certainly not bad for one of these things. If I was overly concerned about mileage, I would have bought a minivan. Bad mileage comes with the territory-
Just had to comment on trade in value, I planned on an instant divebomb on value, it always happens when you purchase a new vehicle...how would you like to be the guy who bought a Yukon denali for over 50 grand BEFORE GM was offering 8 GRAND off- you can imagine what THOSE are going to get for a trade in!

roborig · May 2004

Returning from our 2,300-mile vacation, the Nav System failed. It just quit working, displaying a "Disc Error" message. Rats! We had gotten quite used to it. Cleaning the DVD and rebooting several times didn't help.

Talked to two Nissan dealers to see if I could just pop one of their DVD's into my drive to see if the problem is the disc. They both said that they didn't have a disc to use. I mentioned that it should be possible to take one out of a new vehicle on the lot and just check my drive. They said that the drives and the DVD's are matched by serial numbers and they couldn't do that.

I have had to make an appointment to get my LE in to have them troubleshoot the Nav System, and it sounds like mine may be the first one they've worked on. Jeeez, I thought it would be easy to check the DVD and just give me a new one under warranty if that was the problem. No such luck.

By the way, I'm quite impressed by the operation of the Nav System. The degree of detail is amazing! Driving 6-8 miles off of highways on unmarked dirt roads in Nevada was not a problem. It really helped us out. Like I've said before, it's more than a toy. We've named our "voice" Gabby Gail the Guide Girl".

Regards,
Robo Rig

Nissan Armada

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