Nissan Armada

ksloan77 · October 2003

not sure why many people on here on compareing the sequoia to the armada. there is not really all that much to compare really, except the price because they cost about the same. other than that, the armada is far bigger, FAR more horsepower and torque and far more towing capacity. i have no problem with the sequoia, in fact it was one of the trucks i looked at. but the sequoia was not even rated to pull more than 6,500 pounds or so (won't pull my 27' boat), not to mention that it is considerably smaller inside. if you're in the market for a small-full-size suv, the sequoia might be the ticket....otherwise you have to go elsewhere.

clpurnell · October 2003

Congrats on the new truck. We compare it to the Sequoia because that is the only non domestic "full" size SUV.A lot of us are leary about the reliability of the GM/Ford offerings so that leaves us toyota and nissan, So even though the PFA outclasses the Seqouia in many areas. Some feel more comfortable going with an established vehicle with a good reputation.

coryms · October 2003

Ksloan, I make the comparison because the vechicles are faily close in regards to capacity, seating, etc. The Armada does look "huge" but when it comes to cargo capacity, it is actually smaller than the Sequoia.

Look at the specs, 97 total cargo for the Armada vs. 128 for the Sequioa. Even the space behind the third row has more room in the Sequoia.

The thing that sells me on the Armada is not its size but its "bells and whistles" such as NAV, safety, and comfort features. The towing capacity doesn't sway me much as I don't own a boat.

It is a fair comparison in my opinion.

jono4nissan · October 2003

well, yes you have to compare the nissan to the toyota, the sequoia is the only other full size import. But the armada has more head, shoulder, hip, and leg room in all 3 rows. well, except the second row head room...sequoia has a 2/10" advantage.for cargo, you have to tie down the tumbled 2nd row seats to keep them forward. and on top of all that..the armada has tons more power and can tow the sequoia along with the max load that the sequoia towed.

rshe · October 2003

Agreed, they are a fair comparison. Not everyone is looking for raw HP and towing capability... I'm not going to be towing anything by 4Runner couldn't handle.. If you are looking for raw towing, get an 2500 Suburban with a Duramax diesel...

In reality though I think both vehicles are equal on cargo capacity.. Those Edmunds stats are based on removing the 3rd row seats and unbolting the 2nd row seats in the Sequoia, which to me is an unreasonable comparison. So if you take off the lost space by folding the seats forward, it's probably a wash..

ksloan77 · October 2003

i don't see that the "only" area that a sequoia has more of, cargo space --- even that is arguable ... makes it in the same category for comparison. i understand that it is the only other "import" which again, aren't they both made in the usa? .... still not quite enough in my book to warrant a comparison. i liked the sequoia, very much actually. i thought it rode and drove quite nicely, but again, in comparing the armada against the sequoia ...there is no match... the sequoia is almost in a class of its own as far as size and capabilities. for what most people buy a full size suv for (room, power, hp, gadgets, etc.), the sequoia just does not match up with the rest of the big boys. i have owned 3 expeditions -- a 98, a 00, and a 01 (which i traded for the armada.) the expy is a good vehicle and i also considered getting a 2004...but the changes they made on it for 2004 were not to my liking at all....plus still hampered with the smaller 260 hp engine. i also had a honda pilot which i traded off yesterday for a maxima. seriously, the sequoia is more in the class of a pilot than the armada or expedition.

overall, if the armada does not have serious design flaws (like a new vehicle can have) then i think a lot of expedition owners will turn to the armada for their suv needs.

i am curious to know....is there any of you that own an armada, or are most of you considering buying one? i would like to hear from any owners to see what they think about it, and what i can look forward to as an owner

bowke28 · October 2003

as i sell nissans, i am often asked what quality issues the products have had. if you would, please email me with whatever you can tell me. i respect your decision to not divulge the nature of the issue, but you should not have brought it up the way you did. thats like a doctor saying to someone: "it doesnt look good." and walking away.

popinjay · October 2003

Can you give us any insight into how the armada's are selling? At/below/above expectations? I'm just kind of curious to gauge the demand out there. Thanks.

pfarmada · October 2003

bowke28, I have disclosed the nature of the defect already. I was trying to hold back in hopes that I would get a quick resolution from Nissan and I could be reporting some positive news instead of negative news. I took some heat on this board for doing it that way. I really like the Armada but don't like the defects or the unsatifactory response from the dealer and Nissan Corp. As a matter of fact, I was considering buying my wife an 04 Maxima until this occurred.

rshe · October 2003

Just offered a local dealership $1500 over invoice to order one the way I want and they jumped at it....

rshe · October 2003

No offense to bowke28, but do you expect any response besides "they're flying off the lot, you'd better get in line"" LOL....

pfarmada · October 2003

I can tell you from experience that the quality of the Sequoia I owned was superb compared to this Armada I bought. On top of that, I am quite confident that Toyota would back up their product. I wish I could say the same for Nissan.

dogface5 · October 2003

I test drove an Armada today. The engine is simply amazing, but i was utterly disappointed at the interior materials. What's up with interiors in Nissan products these days (Altima, Maxima, G35). Ultimately, this will have a very negative impact on sales.

rshe · October 2003

They said up to 16 weeks is what they are qouting, but it would probably be much sooner...

Kirstie_H · October 2003

A line of off-topic posts have been deleted. If you need help with the direction of the conversation, there's a clue in the discussion title - focus on the vehicle, not on each other! Thanks.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

dc661 · October 2003

rshe · October 2003

They said up to 16 weeks is what they are qouting, but it would probably be much sooner...

nvbanker · October 2003

Normally, an infinity fan, (LOVE the Q45) this thing is a wierd looking duck to me. Resembles the M45 from the front, and the side profile is odd looking. First impression is negative for me, makes me like the (ugh) Sequoia better! The interior doesn't exactly grab me either. The proof will be in the driving though. Most Infiniti's I've driven fit me great, and drive like a dream. If this does too, they'll have a real winner here despite my opinion of the looks.

Good for Nissan though, getting this thing out there so early! I'm impressed with their energy and ability to execute this crisply. Should make Toyoda quiver a bit in their boots.

rshe - you gave them WHAT over invoice? Schrewd negotiator, are ya? Why don't you wait your 16 weeks and see, you may save a bundle when they equalize......?

rshe · October 2003

I didn't give them anything... Had a dealership accept my offer of $1500 over invoice...(BTW do you understand invoice---not MSRP) I'm working around to the other dealerships to see of they will beat it...Yea your right I could wait 16 weeks, but I am self employed and will get a $44K writeoff on my taxes if I buy it this year, thanks to GWB...Anyway, I don't know what you consider a bundle, do you honestly think you will get this vehicle for invoice in 16 weeks. If so, something has gone horribly wrong with either the Armada or the economy. Why not just wait a year and maybe you'll save even more when the new Sequoia comes out. Or better yet wait until 2009 when they redesign the Armada--think what you'll save then for the older model LOL....

rshe · October 2003

The front of that thing reminds me of the Family Truckster, Chevy Chase bought in the Vacation movie.... Off to Walleyworld

bowke28 · October 2003

as the armadas are not "flying" off the lot, we have yet to discount one. we sell about 100 new nissans a month, and have sold 4 armadas already. i wont tell how many we have, since the post would get deleted, but 2 of the sales were mine, and all were bought their 1st visit.

berisimus · October 2003

Rshe, do you know how the deduction works? I am self employed (legal services) and am looking to to purchase an Armada. Do you have to use the vehicle 100% for business? I have heard that real estate agents, doctors, lawyers, etc. have availed themself of this loop hole. My limited understanding is that the law provides for accelerated depreciation in the year of purchase. According to my accountant, once I take this monster deduction I cannot write off any future year vehicle expenses (i.e. gas, etc.) Thus, while the deduction may help me enormously this year to reduce tax liability(and I think I may need it) it precludes further business vehicle deductions in the future. I am no accountant. If anyone can explain how his works and why it is potentially such a windfall I am all ears. Thanks!

bowke28 · October 2003

if you are to buy an armada, the tax writeoff is based on depreciation each year. you can use other write-offs in the future, but not until you sell the one you used the new write-off for.

popinjay · October 2003

Thanks for the sales info. It's truly amazing to me, however, that people will make one visit and then pay MSRP (I assume by not discounting they are paying MSRP). I mean, I have the money and need the car, but I'd take a blood transfusion from Rush Limbaugh before I paid MSRP.
On another note...is the 'deep water blue' color available yet? I've yet to see one in anyone's inventory. it's all smoke and silver.

berisimus · October 2003

Bowke28, HUH? I think the idea here is that you receive an accelerated depreciation deduction in year one as opposed to amortizing it over the normal five year period. Also, the amount of allowable depreciation is not artificially limited by assuming that the vehicle costs no more than $15,000.00 Check out this cite for explanation and examples, http://imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000154682.cfm.

I just spoke to my accountant and I think I understand the benefits. Again, math is not my strong suit so if you or another board member can further explain the benefits (or any perceived disadvantages)to the Section 179 deduction I am your grateful admirer. While this request may seem somewhat off topic I can assure you it is important to me as I analyze whether or not to purchase the Armada this year (which, after now speaking with my accountant, I am inclined to do)

rshe · October 2003

The loophole allows you to accelerate the depreciation into 1 year... As of last year this amount went up to $100K... You have to use the vehicle predominantly for business at least 51%, there can be some personal use. My business has years like this one where we will have great years and it is advantageous to take the deduction in one year. This does preclude you from the mileage deduction, but you can still write off vehicle cost like fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc... Requires a bit more bookkeeping...I heard on autospies that the Senate (or House I'm not positive) finance committee is looking to knock it back down to $25K again...

crikey · October 2003

I heard on autospies that the Senate (or House I'm not positive) finance committee is looking to knock it back down to $25K again...

Here is the AutoSpies Article regarding this: SUV Tax write-off shifts into reverse.

bowke28 · October 2003

these initial deals are folks who inquired about the armada before launch, received emails from nissan, and only had to drive the truck to make their decision. they were told 2 things before launch:

1) we will have more than anyone else in the city, and

2) we will not discount them for awhile

we dont know any more than any of you when they will start being discounted, so it doesnt hurt anything to say no to the first offer under MSRP...if a stink is made after that, we would probably throw some money away, but so far noone has even blinked.

popinjay · October 2003

Bowke28...very interesting. Thanks. What would be your take on a dealer that, on one hand, tells me that his current allotment of armada's is basically 'pre-sold', but on the other hand has each of them listed on their website at 'internet prices', which are seemingly only a few hundred dollars above invoice?
Are these 'internet prices' roughly the equivalent of the newspaper bait and switch type ads?

bowke28 · October 2003

if they are listed for sale, you should print the page listing the unit you want, take it in to them, and say that you want that one. if they say it is sold, i would wonder why the "buyer" hasnt taken delivery...hmmmm.

an outside possibility would be that they did sell all of them, but forgot to "unlist" them on the website. not likely.

popinjay · October 2003

Appreciate the info. I'm heading to the dealership tonight for a test drive with print out in hand. We'll see what they say.

rrachapudi · October 2003

According to WSJ, the loop hole has been corrected. The deduction has now been limited to $25000 (instead of the $100000 that was available last year). First of all, the write off applies to vehicles weighing over 6000 lbs. Armada weights only 5400 lbs. It is expected that the entire use is business related. The vehicle has to be purchased in the company's name and insurance has to be in the company name. My CPA confirmed this.

rosie726 · October 2003

We just got back from ordering a new Armada.List $44770, we paid $41400, or $3300 off of MSRP.Could have bought one off the lot but it didn't have what we were looking for. Hope this info helps someone!!

berisimus · October 2003

rrachapudi, thanks for the info. A few questions, though, still linger. First, do you have the WSJ cite? According to a previous post only the Senate has voted (not the House) and it is unclear as to the exact status of the law that was, after all, just passed this last May. Also, I believe the Armada does qualify as you look at not the curb weight but the gross weight. There were 38 vehicles (including the Sequoia, Tahoe/Yukon, Durango and Expedition, to mention a few)that qualified in 2002. According to what I have read (and to my accountant's advice) if you do not use the vehicle for business 100% of the time you may, nevertheless, take a proportionate amount of depreciation (and other vehicle expenses). I am told, however, that there may be further reductions of your allowable depreciation deductions if the business use falls below 50%. You are correct that you must purchase/title the vehicle through your business. The deduction does not apply to business leases. Kindly confirm, if you can, that the loop hole has officially been reduced to the $25,000.00 level as this weighs on my decision to buy in the next few weeks.

rosie726 · October 2003

the clear water blue is available and we have seen it. It's a nice color, looks kind of like a blue green. We did choose the black over the blue though.

nvbanker · October 2003

I misunderstood - I thought you offered $1500 over sticker for the car....not invoice. Sorry for my mistake. $1500 over invoice isn't bad at all. Enjoy your car.

jschober · October 2003

rrachapudi,Section 179 cannot be reduced mid-stream. Loopholes are not mistakes written into the tax code, they are legitimate tax incentives put in place to promote small-business equipment purchases, including the Armada GVW of 7200lbs. I am counting on the 100K and have read nothing to the contrary. 25K was in 2001.

pfarmada · October 2003

Please let us know if you have defective paint,dents,and other imperfections around the inside of your door frames.I am just wondering if the quality control inspector missed work the day mine was manufactured. I still like the truck, but want a resolution. I believe it would be in Nissan's best interest for a customer to get on this board and tell potential buyers how they were happy with the way they resolved a problem. I think it would give them confidence in the product.

berisimus · October 2003

I just read the October 9th Wall Street Journal article. The Senate Finance Commitee did in fact act to repeal the expansion of the loophole and reduce the deduction to its original 25K level (still much higher than for non-elgible vehicles).
The article goes on to say that the House legislation did not contain a similiar measure and, therefore, the outlook for the "SUV tax break" (as many refer to it) is still hazy. What gives? Does the Senate Finance Committee without House approval have the authority to undercut the increase first enacted in May with the Bush 350 billion tax cut? Can someone please ask their accountant if the law has now officially changed or is it still in effect pending House approval? I am confused.

popinjay · October 2003

Anyway....went down to the dealer tonight for a test drive, and to see where they were coming from with their posted 'internet pricing' (posted on their website, these 'internet prices' were just a few hundred above invoice). The fleet guy...duh...didn't know anything about these prices. Went to ask his boss and came back laughing, saying that the posted prices were a 'mistake'. Chuckling to himself, he went on to say that he had no idea who even updates the website. "we'll have to find out", he says.
Bottom line at this place...I could have a 2wd LE with DVD for $500 under MSRP and DVD cost to the dealer...for a total savings of about 1k. Can't keep 'em in stock, he says. They're literally driving themselves off the lot.
So...jokes on him. Idaho will name me their state bird before I buy from this place. Actually feel like reporting them to the authorities.
Oh yeah...the thing drove great. Loved the experience. At least until fleet guy opened his mouth.

nomarian · October 2003

Berisimus,

The Senate can repeal the expansion of the loophole, but it does not take affect until the House approves the same or similiar measure. The article states that the SUV tax break is hazy, because it still needs to be decided in the House whether to approve it or now. Pretty much every piece of legislation needs House and Senate approval. Once they both approve it, then they can change the law on a date of their choosing. My accountant also agrees.

tidester · October 2003

Idaho will name me their state bird before I buy from this place.

I'll put in a good word for you to the governor! Popin Jay has a nice ring to it! :-)

tidester, host

rare1 · October 2003

I picked up a 4X4 LE this week, black with graphite interior. Paid MSRP, but got about 2K above blue book for my trade in. Observations:
Overall a very nice car. Drivetrain is excellent, the best I have driven. (I also own a Toyota Tundra limited that has the same drivetrain and almost identical interior as the Sequioa). I like the exterior styling, and the vehicle seems very solid with no rattles and heavy doors. I do have a paint imperfection on the hood and front quarter panel of the vehicle, a spot that looks like it did not get enough dark paint. I also have a blotch in the clearcoat on a passenger door. The dealer is supposed to take care of these next week, we'll see. The automatic liftgate works well, but is very slow. The vehicle is also so tall that the liftgate hits my garage door when it opens all the way - watch for this when you open it in your garage the first time.
There is a lot of plastic in the interior. I'm not sure it is much worse than the Yukon Denali I looked at, but doesn't seem as refined as the Sequoia. I have the graphite interior, and it is much better looking than the silver. Both the graphite and sand use varying shades of color in the plastic and leather that makes it look much better than the silver (IMHO). I also really like the center console with the shifter in it vs. the steering column. This was the only full size SUV I looked at that was configured this way.
I have not noticed anything unusual about the insides of the door frames.
Overall, I am happy with the vehicle. I think quality control could have been better with the paint, but I will give them a chance to get it right. I don't think I got a great deal, but did not get taken either. I think it is possible that sales will increase as the advertising kicks in and people see them on the road. I get a lot of looks and questions about the car, and have not had a negative opinion yet.

clpurnell · October 2003

Congrats on the new ride. My wife and I had the same opinion about the interior do not go for the light grey if you do everything in the inside is the same color and it looks kind of boring. We are looking for an SE 4x2 with bose and DVD with graphite interior. Enjoy the ride and let us know how your dealer deals with the paint problems.

pfarmada · October 2003

On the new Armada. Apparently they do have some Quality Control issues at their factory. At least it sounds like, that at this point, your dealer is making an effort to work with you to correct the flaws. I have not been so fortunate. Just got my satisfaction survey from Nissan today. If they even read them, they won't be happy to see mine.

hsford · October 2003

Ok, Just got home with my New Armada. Paid MSRP for the 4x2 Silver Lightning SE with Graphite inter. I am not much of a negotiator, but from what I can tell on Edmunds.com, looks like most everyone is paying MSRP at this point. I did make an honest attempt to haggle, but was not prepaired to walk out, and therefore I paid. Good News...I really like the looks, power, and feel of this vehicle, but I agree with previous post that although vehicle feels very solid, interior is a bit on the plastic side. Bad News.....I only performed a limited test drive before purchase, and on the way home on the freeway, noticed the harmonic effect that has been mentioned else where like a window was left cracked open and reverberating throughout the cab. Not bad, but definitely noticeable...Hope Someone figures out that issue soon. Stock Radio seems to have poor and sporadic antennae reception. Anyone else notice this? Will take back on Monday to see if the dealer can correct. also noticed seat latch lever on second row right side at top of seat, cable is loose from slot/groove which does not allow seat to swing forward properly. I identified that issue before I left the dealer tonight, and he wrote up an order for me to bring back on Monday to get corrected(Service already gone home for the night)...should be a simple fix. I am overall very pleased with the looks, power, and drive, but sure hope I didn't jump too soon on this one...the reverberation issue really has me concerned. I noticed that a change in freeway surface seemed to make a difference, so not sure if it could be tire related or what.....would like to hear if any one else is experiencing or has determined a cause or fix. Anyhow, kind of hate to post negative issues here, but I figure its best for others to be informed. Proceed, but proceed with caution and care.
First Nissan, Hope its not my last.

hsford · October 2003

Haven't noticed any paint defects yet, but will keep and eye out.

pfarmada · October 2003

If Nissan had better Quality control on the Armada I believe they would have a winner on their hands.I noticed on one Nissan web page where the Canton Plant was looking for several Quality Control people. Consumers spending over 40K for a SUV are not going to tolerate this poor Quality Control issue. Nissan had better get a handle on it and resolve the existing problems with their customers or the competition is going to use it to their advantage.

dodger22 · October 2003

Hs ford. I own a 4x4 LE Smoke/graphite interior. Amazing vehicle. My only two complaints are the same as yours. The seat latch on the top, second row needs to be replaced, and my favorite radio station doesn't come in. Previous SUV had better FM reception. Overall, after SUV shopping for ever (test driving), I am totally impressed with my purchase. To the potential shoppers, supply & demand dictates sales dept need to discount under MSRP. I have always believed this. So, if I had to pay sticker, no matter how bad I wanted the PFA, I would walk away. Only way to buy this new car is through a Nissan dealer that cares about their customers (Nissan Award of Excellence) and that you only contact their Fleet Mgr first through the internet. Dealers that rotate their "internet dept" between various salesman are a joke. Similar to Avon reps, rotating internet sales inquires. You'll know they're true fleet mgrs when their office is way in the back, practically in a trailer. Sales staff are not discounting. Doesn't matter if they are flying off the lots are not. If people pay MSRP, that's all that matters. In northern Calif, I know one dealer whose Fleet Mgr is pricing $750 over invoice, and mine that sold to me at $500 over invoice. They're still making money (volume) and also the 3% holdback before the car hits the lot. As to how I like the car, my bro-in-law said it best when he drove it. The BEST suv he's ever driven. This from a guy who owns an EB Exp. Congrats to those who knew what they wanted (for months) and acted on it.

hsford · October 2003

Dodger22..thanks for the feedback, any idea on how to possibly increase the FM reception? Also, I take it you have not encountered the reverb effect while driving on the freeway? just curious....Thanks.

Nissan Armada

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