Mazda3

lavaorange3 · November 2003

2.0 or 2.3, stick or automatic?

vadp · November 2003

Does anyone have any updates on the arrival of the 3 in California?

John Hine Mazda in San Diego just got them.

bluong1 · November 2003

Santa Barbara got them too.

bluong1 · November 2003

fowler3 How does it compare to the outgoing Protegé in noise..more...or less? Is there a discernable hop or porpoising?

Here is what I observed during my testdrive. Depending on the type of pavement, one can hear more or less a roar noise from the rear tires. You can't blame on the tires alone because: first the noise is transmitted through the chassis and come from the back floor pannel of the car. Otherwise, the car noise would be heard mostly through the windows. Second, the tires that are equipped my car is one of the quietest out there: the Turanza (and with the correct tire pressures during my testdrive). Driving back to back the Mazda3 and P5, I feel the Mazda3 is more noisy in this aspect (but the engine is definitively not buzzy as the P5's). Overall, I think the NVH-wise, The Mazda3 doesn't equal more refined/upper scale cars, but is perfectly livable and in part with other "economy" cars. You can always argue that I drove the Hatch and not the Sedan, but from Preston's report, Sedan is not much better.

Suspension: I think Mazda designs a perfect balance between firmness and ride comfort. It's less firm than the Protegé's, but it's firmer than the average cars, which shouldn't be taken as a benchmark. Personally I wouldn't mind having an even firmer suspension setup, but that is just me. Oh, and it's definitively a "controlled" firmness. That's the three things that I love about the Mazda3 rear suspension: controlled, accurate, and quick response. The damping of the rear should be even better than the Mazda6 because the later uses an angled short dampers instead of a vertical/longer dampers in the Mazda3. The 6 however has a better designed front suspension (double wish-bones).

Weight wise it's not brainer: give me the light and fun Mazda3 any day.

Bruno

PS: do you all forget my RPM reading request?

creakid1 · November 2003

wongpres Nov 19, 2003 8:35pm

"Yes, Canadian-spec titanium is combined with blue/black cloth. But if you really want blue/black, why not just order the cloth and tell your dealer to swap it? I don't imagine the front seats would be that difficult to swap, though the rears may be difficult (but I don't know enough about this)."

I'm sure the rear won't be hard to swap either, as long as the dealer won't black mail me to do so. When I was drooling over a Cosmo Silver '81 Scirocco S, the dealer was unwilling to swap the red/blk w/ grey/blk from the Mars Red one! Anyway, our folks didn't buy one, no way! Not for us kids.

"Funny you compared to BMW, cause one of the cars I testdrove was a 325. The Mazda3 is just a little bit more firm than the 325."

The 4dr 325i still has the choice of regular or lowered sport suspension in N.A. Is the one you drove a 4-dr w/o the pull-out thigh cushion-length? That's the softer-riding car w/o the sport package. The 2-dr 325is has the sport suspension std, regardless whether it's 16" or 17".

If the 3 rides firmer than the 325 w/ the lowered sport suspension, then it's too firm!

bluong1 · November 2003

It has to be worse than the BMW in some way significantly, not just slightly. Otherwise, BMW will go out of business.

Not sure about that. A rear wheel drive platform, an amazing inline 6 engine, a nicer interior, and probably the most important: an blue/white helix badge are something that Mazda don't have.

wongpres · November 2003

Bruno:

I completely agree with your assessment - the noise is mainly tire noise but there is some suspension noise too. Overall it's noisy, pure and simple. And I also agree that the rear suspension is better on the Mazda3 but the front is better on the Mazda6.

This morning I stopped by the dealer to see the cars in daylight. The colours and hatch vs sedan is subjective so I won't comment, but those 17's have seriously low sidewalls (sidewall looked thinner than the 195/50R16 from the Pro/Pro5).

I didn't forget your RPM request, but I never held any constant speed for a significant amount of time during my testdrive.

creakid:

Ok, I kinda lied about testing the BMW 325 - it was actually a 2003 320 (I said 325 cause they're similar and most US folks don't know what a 320 is). It was a pretty stripped model so I'm pretty sure it was the softer suspension.

But as Bruno says, BMW won't be going out of business because of Mazda (I won't comment on the Bangle issue though).

audia8q · November 2003

just wanted to remind everyone in the greater hartford, ct area that the CT international auto show at the expo center starts tonight at 5pm and runs thru sunday.....The mazda3 will be arriving there today around noon. I will be there tonight, so stop by and say hello.

fowler3 · November 2003

My Protegé is noisy, too, mostly the Bridgestones. But since I am deaf in one ear I don't mind it as much as others do. If noise is loud enough for me to hear then it's too noisy. Frankly, I like to hear the engine noise. There's a sound the 2.0L makes as you slow down without braking which has something like a 6-cylinder resonance.

Owners who give their cars names, think of them as pets, like their cars to *talk to them* a little.

A car that is totally quiet would be too isolating, like riding in a sound chamber.

fowler3

mdaffron · November 2003

I swapped out the noisy-as-hell, bald-at-28,000-miles Bridgestone Poortenzas that came stock on my 2000 ES with a set of Dunlop SP Sport A2s, which were great, grippy, quiet tires at first but these wore out by 20,000 miles! About 13,000 miles ago I took the advice of several other owners over on Mazda Protege and bought a set of BFG Touring T/A VR4s for the Protege. My thanks to them -- my Protege now rides more smoothly and a lot quieter than it ever did before, and the tires still corner and grip quite admirably (though not *quite* as well as the Dunlops -- but understandably so; the short-lived Dunlops got that great grip by leaving a trail of rubber on the road so thick you could almost see it, LOL!).

The only thing I'm concerned about when considering the Mazda3 is that Mazda has chosen such a funky tire size; it may be difficult to impossible to swap out to a better tire after the OEMs wear out. I've even tried some plus-sizing and I still can't find any alternatives.

Before any of you say, "Well, the new car will create a market for this size tire and we'll see other tires show up soon," lemme tell ya -- everybody said this about the 195/55-15s on the Protege ES when it came out in '99. Almost five years later, pickin's are still slim -- in fact my BFG upgrade was only doable as a modified plus-zero (from 195/55-15 to 205/55-15) which results in a minor speedo error of about 1 mph at 60 mph.

Meade

dinu01 · November 2003

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4126411&a=309610- 90&f=0

Dinu

mdaffron · November 2003

Now I know where I've seen that look before!!!

Compare this:

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=4126411&a=3096109- 0&p=65740834&f=0

... to this:

http://galactic-voyage.com/images/Characters/Nute%20Gunray.jpg

Uncanny resemblance, ain't it???

Meade

dinu01 · November 2003

Yeah, not the most flattering pic, that's for sure.

Dinu

bluong1 · November 2003

LOL

creakid1 · November 2003

wongpres Nov 20, 2003 9:47am
"Ok, I kinda lied about testing the BMW 325 - it was actually a 2003 320 (I said 325 cause they're similar and most US folks don't know what a 320 is). It was a pretty stripped model so I'm pretty sure it was the softer suspension."

Wait a minute, does the stripped 320i have 195/65-15 std just like the '99 323i? I rode one & it was cushier comfier than any Mercedes C-class prior to '02. Were you comparing a 205/55-16 Mazda3 to a 205/55-16 3-series' ride comfort?

wongpres · November 2003

The BMW 320 I drove had 205/55R16. So in comparison to the Mazda3:

Mazda3 17's were a bit firmer than the Mazda3 16's, and the Mazda3 16's was quite a bit firmer than the BMW 320 16's.

combustible1 · November 2003

"My Protegé is noisy, too, mostly the Bridgestones. But since I am deaf in one ear I don't mind it as much as others do. If noise is loud enough for me to hear then it's too noisy. Frankly, I like to hear the engine noise"

we have something in common, as I am deaf in my right ear. You would think that we would be looking for similar things in a car, but I guess not, because I would prefer more quietness in a car.

Even in the close confines of a car, if there is too much wind, tire and engine noise in combination, it can make it difficult for me to hear my passengers. The quieter the environment, the less neck-craning and diminished concentration from driving as I struggle to hear what others are saying.

This is one reason I don't drive stick, as it would be one more distraction for me.

Maybe you are deaf in your left ear, just the opposite of me. This would explain our different preferences.

I guess I should have been born in Great Britain.. I would have no problems then and could buy any car without consideration of the noise factor (w/the driver on the right hand side and therefore perfect hearing for me!).

bluong1 · November 2003

This is one reason I don't drive stick, as it would be one more distraction for me.

No, if you drive stick more often, it will become a second nature, no distraction what so ever.

I have an idea for Mazda, they should offer an pair of ear plugs as free accessory for the Mazda3. Sorry, just kidding.

mazda6s · November 2003

"No, if you drive stick more often, it will become a second nature, no distraction what so ever."

You know when you're at that point, when after a stop you discover that you're in 4th gear and don't remember how you got there.

fdanna · November 2003

"You know when you're at that point, when after a stop you discover that you're in 4th gear and don't remember how you got there. "

Umm, no this is more a beginner's mistake. Advanced drivers would have downshifted. I'd say you're at that point when you tell people that you drive a stick and they say "wow, I didn't even notice you shifting."

stickguy · November 2003

I probably wouldn't notice a little more tire/road noise, since I always have the radio on (and you can always turn it up), and usually the moonroof if open, so there is enough background noise to override what the car makes.

knf2020 · November 2003

Today I drove a 2.3l auto Mazda 3. Just came into Polar Mazda in White Bear Lake, MN today.
Great car. I will be going back Saturday and have my wife drive it as it is for her. For those interested in performance it will turn the 1/4 mile in high 16s and 84mph. It was very quiet as far as I was concerned. Look out Civics and Corollas you have BIG time competition.

bluong1 · November 2003

tow hook is stowed in the Hatch: at the right up corner of the cargo tray: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/vwp?.dir=/My+Testdriv- - e&.dnm=img017.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

Don't ask me where they put it in the sedan.

odysseus3 · November 2003

You ran the quarter on a test drive? What did the sales guy have to say about that? What would your 0-60 guesstimate be?

bluong1 · November 2003

If the quarter is high 16s at 84mph, then the 0-60 would be around 9.2

wongpres · November 2003

When you see a Mazda3 at your dealer, can you please note the parts content percentages (e.g. xx% Japan, xx% US/Canada, etc...). This info isn't required here in Canada so manufacturers don't list them. It'll be interesting to compare the Mazda3 with the Pro/Pro5.

Oh yeah, one more thing that N. American-spec Mazda3's don't get - we don't get the little parking light at the top of the high-beam (as can be seen from this picture on Bruno's site):
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brunoluong/vwp?.dir=/Album+02&am- p;.dnm=red_sedan_4.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

odysseus3 · November 2003

Please tell me that is a serious high-ball? I love the looks and utility of the 5-door, and I have heard the handling of Mazda cars is excellent. However, I'm not sure if I can trade my Sentra SE in for a car that runs 0-60 almost 2 seconds slower. Does anyone know if there is any accurate performance numebrs on the 3 yet?

P.S. Just noticed that was an auto, not a 5-speed. So the actual time should at least be sub-9.

dinu01 · November 2003

Someone posted on another board:

80% Japan
0% Canada/US

The other 20% is unaccounted for.

Dinu

dinu01 · November 2003

Mazda ATs suck A LOT of power. That beign said, Mazdas are not always fast, but FEEL fast and extremelly fun to drive.

I have a 91 Maxima - in a straight line it's faster than my Protege 2.0, but it has no steering feel and in turns you really have to slow down. Not so in the PRO

Yes, I like the PRO better.

Dinu

mazda6s · November 2003

Sorry, what I meant was:
You know when you're at that point, when after you stop and get back up to speed, you discover that you're in 4th gear and don't remember how you got there.

fowler3 · November 2003

"we have something in common, as I am deaf in my right ear."

Welcome to the club!

"Even in the close confines of a car, if there is too much wind, tire and engine noise in combination, it can make it difficult for me to hear my passengers."

You could ask them to speak louder. Some may not know you can't hear.

"Maybe you are deaf in your left ear, just the opposite of me. This would explain our different preferences."

Yes, you are right about the left ear. The advantage, if there is one, I can't hear the wind noise the left outside mirror makes, unless I open the window.

Try this one -- I'm almost blind in my right eye. So I have to be extremely careful passing and pulling back into the right lane. Fortunately, signaling a pass well in advance, most other drivers are courtious and allow me to pull out. Talking about "blind spots" on the MZ3, LOL, you have no idea...

I agree with fdanna and Bruno about stick shifting. It becomes second nature quickly and with practice you can shift unnoticable to passengers. What you should pay attention to when carrying passengers is to not make hard stops throwing them forward.

Always drive with your passengers' comfort in mind. Hotdog it when you are alone. With a full load no small car is at its best performance.

fowler3

knf2020 · November 2003

I used Cartest200 to do my 1/4 mile times. I loaded all the technical data on the car including the dynograph. I used 200lb driver and 50lb of fuel. 2k rpm launch.
16.7 second, 84.9mph 1/4 mile, 8.8 second 0-60mph and 132 mph top speed. Cartest2000 is very very accurate if you load the correct data.

kaiserhead · November 2003

There's a sedan and wagon at Dufferin Mazda in the showroom, both silver. NICE!!!

knf2020 · November 2003

I ran some Cartest2000 for the people interested in 5-sp stick performance.

You'll like this:15.9 second, 89mph 1/4 mile times, 0-60mph in 7.5 seconds, top speed 134mph.

boxfan · November 2003

"You'll like this:15.9 second, 89mph 1/4 mile times, 0-60mph in 7.5 seconds, top speed 134mph."

You're right, I like that.

" - the car drives like a Mazda6 but more nimble."

I like that, too!

Thanks, everyone, for the reports and sightings.

lavaorange3 · November 2003

This is the sedan or the hatch?

bluong1 · November 2003

- A quick question, I did program myself a computer simulation similar to Cartest200, and indeed, I get very accurate results with the P5/MT (I have its dyno graph).

- However don't know how to input the shift point for the automatic tranny. Do you have any idea how Cartest200 do that?

- Do you have a dyno test for Mazda3? Or you just take the official torque curve and scale it down? What about wheel weights?

- Could you please run Cartest200 with the 2.0L?

Thanks

bluong1 · November 2003

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4165404&a=309624- 29&f=0

rzarich · November 2003

can someone explain the relationship between ford and mazda? and how much of ford's influence is placed in the mazda 3? does it contain a lot of ford parts? is it made in japan? thanks.

bluong1 · November 2003

please read here: http://www.msnusers.com/BrunoLuong/manufacturingandlaunching.msnw

bluong1 · November 2003

required Windows Media Player.

http://groups.msn.com/BrunoLuong/photos.msnw -> Video Page -> together_part1 & together_part2

dinu01 · November 2003

Those pics sure look good!!!

BTW, Brampton is a suburb on Toronto. Some Mazda 3s have also been spotted at Pickering/Ajax Mazda.

Dinu

swales · November 2003

If anyone is in the Montreal area, Albi Mazda (north of Mtl) has about 50 Mazda 3's in stock. They have every color and model of the hatch and sedan. Sorry I don't have any pics but I forgot to bring my camera

bluong1 · November 2003

50! Man!!!

Please do us a favor, bring your camera there and don't forget a lot of memory/films. We especially need photos of:

- Sedan in Sand Mica
- Sedan in Indigo (dark) Blue

wongpres · November 2003

Albi Mazda is the largest Mazda dealer in all of N. America (Quebec is huge for Mazda, hence Mazda Canada's reluctance in giving up the Protege name). Anyways, because of their size, Albi got the largest shipment by far.

The dealer where I did my testdrive is also very large (the owner has 3 dealerships in Toronto), hence they got they got a good number of cars early as well. Dinu, it seems the Avante's are quite a bit behind (I went to Avante Toronto last night and they only had 3 Mazda3's, and Avante Richmond Hill still hasn't called me).

Anyways, the dealer where I did my testdrive had several indigo blues. But the most interesting colour/combo this dealer had was a Sand Mica sedan GT with GFX (sorry didn't have my camera).

knf2020 · November 2003

http://www.autosupermart.com/auto/images/news/2004mazda3/2004mazd- a3fullkit.pdf

They are on page 55 of this PDF.

I'll run a CARTEST2000 of the 2.0l shortly.

CARTEST2000 simulation shifts the auto at 6500rpms which is the red line and the peak hp.

knf2020 · November 2003

This is the sedan or the hatch?

Sedan.

I used 2750lb for the car weight.

knf2020 · November 2003

This is for the sedan. I used 2700lb for the car.
I don't know how much more the auto weighs.

5sp performance:131mph top speed, 16.3 seconds, 86mph for 1/4 mile, 0-60mph in 8.1 seconds.

auto performance:128mph top speed, 17.1 seconds, 82mph for 1/4 mile, 0-60mph in 9.4 seconds.

odysseus3 · November 2003

Could you please run the quarter for the 2.3L 5-speed hatch, using a 200 pound driver with a cheesburger in his left hand, and a 120 pound passenger telling him to slow down before the cops pull him over.

mazda6s · November 2003

... and a caramel machiatto in his right hand.

Mazda3

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