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Comments
"We're poised to set another record this year [in sales]. We're on track for about 90,000 sales for the fiscal year, which ends in March. We're going to get 89,000 for the calendar year, so there's not a whole lot of difference, but the new Mazda3 comes out in January."
The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight to meet and greet with your fellow CarSpace members!
See you there!
The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight to meet and greet with your fellow CarSpace members!
See you there!
See the Mazda3 Real World MPG forum in Edmunds for more information.
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Share your vehicle reviews
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Dave
The MZR 2.0 found in the Mazda 3i Sport seems like the likeliest candidate, since it shares an identical displacement with the Skyactiv 2.0, and in North America, the Mazda3 is the only car that uses that engine. Meanwhile, the MZR 2.5 is also used in the Mazda5 and Mazda6. I don't think that the Skyactiv 2.0 has enough torque for those heavier models, so it would seem that the MZR 2.5 won't disappear until a more powerful Skyactiv engine comes out.
Currently, the price of stepping up from the 3i Sport to the 3i Touring is about $1,600. In addition to the Skyactive drivetrain, the Touring models add alloy wheels, Bluetooth, steering wheel controls, trip computer, cruise control, and six-speaker audio. If the Skyactiv drivetrain indeed trickles down to the 3i Sport models, then I would guess that either the list price goes up, or equipment currently standard on the 3i Sport becomes optional or thrown into a package.
My biggest concern is that the worst-case scenario occurs: 2013 Mazda Mazda3 base model has the Skyactiv engine, priced the same as the 2012, with almost the exact same features. Then the 2012 Mazda3 which I hypothetically purchase would be a really bad deal, in that light. But is that likely to happen?
Also, the i Sport gets about 24/33 MPG, which is not too shabby, but certainly not close to many of its rivals in the compact car segment - Ford Focus, Toyota Corolla, etc. In the foreseeable future, I would think the value of the 2012 Mazda3 would be primed for a freefall. Unless someone thinks otherwise?
Yes. If there is no compelling need to buy now, I would wait until the fall for two reasons:
1- Let the kinks work out of the first year of the Skyactiv implementation;
2- Compare the new 2013 to the original 2012 models to see which offers the best deal.
In the meantime, you can always collect information and get a "preview" of the negotiation by visiting showrooms. You might even find a sales person that you can work with for the eventual purchase.
MSRP of a 2012 Mazda3 i Sport automatic is roughly $18,350 and the Mazda3 i Touring (Skyactiv) is about $20,095. Where do you get $3,000 from?
Mazda does have a $2,000 dealer cash incentive on "R" code Mazda3s, which there are very few, if any left. There is also a $750 delaer cash rebate on the Mazda3 i Sport and $250 dealer cash on the Skyactiv models. Of course, you cannot get any of these rebates if you lease or take the special finance rates.
If you opt for the Skyactiv, you're getting a more refined drivetrain. So, it's not just the fuel economy.
For the 2012 model year, Mazda lowered the MSRP on the base model Mazda3. But, they also shifted around the option packages and standard equipment.
If Mazda moves the Skyactiv drivetrain into the 3i Sport models for 2013, then I would expect the MSRP to jump as well. As I mentioned, right now the Touring model adds $1,600 to the MSRP, and if you disregard the Skyactiv drivetrain, the added features on the Touring model IMO are not worth $1,600. Last year, the difference was $1,400 -- same equipment upgrades, except with no change in the drivetrain.
Just wonder how much more Mazda believes the SkyActiv is worth. I'm going to take a look at some vehicles this weekend, and test-driving a couple of them. Thought I might get a few opinions on the Mazda3 (my current first choice). If they weren't going to roll out the SkyActiv on the entire Mazda3 line in a few months, I wouldn't be so concerned.
Mazda3 2012 Price List
The dealer price doesn't mean much because you don't know the value of the incentives that the dealer might be getting from Mazda at any given time. In the last quarter, the average value of incentive spending from Mazda came out to around $2k per car. Of course, the incentive value will vary from model to model, and judging by Mazda's financing programs (1.9% APR on the Mazda3, and 0% on the Mazda6, CX-7, and CX-9), the Mazda3 doesn't seem to need as much incentive subsidy as other models. And from what I have heard, the Skyactiv models have been in greater demand than the other Mazda3 trims.
If anything, Mazda has held the line on pricing with the Skyactiv rollout. By limiting it to the higher margin 3i Touring and Grand Touring models, they have a little bit more maneuvering room on the pricing if the Skyactiv drivetrains currently cost more to produce. The 3i Sport has lower margins, so it makes sense to keep the tried-and-true 2.0 MZR drivetrain for this year at least. By next model year, the Skyactiv drivetrain production will ramp up to much higher volume (if for no other reason, because of the CX-5 debut) and presumably the cost per unit by then will also drop.
Easy to install and maintain, we wash them once a month and the truck doesn't smell like wet dog any more!
http://www.insideline.com/mazda/mazda-breaks-ground-on-its-first-plant-in-mexico- .html
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=209428.0
"Eventually, cars from the new Salamanca plant are likely to be sold in the U.S."
So it seems unlikely that 2013 Mazda3's sold in the USA will come from Mexico. But down the road... very possible.
Exporting vehicles, especially compacts and subcompacts, half way around the world must substantially cut into a manufacturer's profit margin. And then to face a negative currency exchange must make the Japanese auto manufacturers doubly desperate.
On the positive side, "made in Japan" has meant a quality vehicle in my experience. It will be interesting to see how the new plant in Mexico will rate in production quality.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/06/2013-mazda3-whats-changed.html
The blog entry doesn't spell it out, but it seems that the 3s models will soldier on with the venerable 2.5L MZR drivetrain.
Also, all 2013 Mazda3 models will come with the multi-information display and add a USB connector as standard equipment.
Other changes look like the usual juggling around on the various trim levels. The 3i Touring and Grand Touring models will add keyless entry, push-button start, and automatic climate control (none of which are available on the 3i models right now).
Remains to be seen what will be available and not available with a MT. Right now, if you want a fully loaded Mazda3 with a MT, you have to go with the 2.5L MZR-engined 3s.
On the whole, the trim levels will be a lot more logical than they were this year. I've always thought that 2012 was more of a transition year as Mazda ramps up production on the Skyactiv components. Keep the predictable and reliable 2.0L MZR drivetrain around, while Mazda irons out any teething pains with the Skyactiv drivetrain.
Now, Mazda can go all-in with Skyactiv since it seems the Skyactiv launch was successful -- >70% of N. American sales, no recalls or TSBs so far, continued improvement in the JD Power IQS PP100 score despite the introduction of an all-new drivetrain, and Mazda3 now ranked 4th in initial quality among compact cars. Logically, it would make no sense for Mazda to keep both the 2.0L MZR and 2.0L Skyactiv engines indefinitely, especially since the Skyactiv engines are more powerful, more efficient, and purportedly cost less to produce.
The big question will be how much of a price increase Mazda will implement. Hyundai has already decided to do some profit-taking with the 2013 Elantra by boosting the price points and equipment levels across the board. They can no longer quote a $15k starting MSRP, but the base model will now come with more of the equipment that people actually buy.
The Mazda 3i SV is Mazda's stripped down price leader, but with only a MT and no AC, it's not a car that many people would want. And I've never seen a Mazda 3i SV, either on a dealer lot or in the online inventory. Mazda's supposedly adding AC to the 2013 model, so does this mean that we might actually see on out in the wild?
For me, the decision to go with the Mazda3 was simple because I needed space for a child safety seat and occasional cargo hauling. And coming over from an Integra, I really value the outward visibility, and even though the Mazda3 does not have great visibility, it's certainly a lot better than most competing models. I simply needed a larger car than the Veloster, so it got eliminated early.
Sitting in the Veloster, I was very impressed with how Hyundai styled and appointed that car. But, the proportions are odd -- it reminds me of the old Mitsubishi Eclipse in how the low seating position truncates the visibility, even though it's a small car. And it definitely has a lot more gadgetry than the Mazda3.
On that last point, being first on the block with new technology is a double-edged sword. I suspect that all these tech gadgets getting stuffed into Hyundai's newer cars are responsible for the company's recent slide down the JD Power rankings. If not for Ford's almost shocking plunge from #5 two years ago to #27 this year (due almost entirely to problems with their Microsoft-designed touchscreen controls), Hyundai's recent decline might have been much more noteworthy.
Three years ago, Hyundai ranked #4 -- tops among non-premium brands. Last year, their JD Power IQS ranking went below the industry average, and this year it has fallen to #18 (tie). Aside from the technology features, Hyundai is also introducing new models and new drivetrains at a furious pace, and that also increases the likelihood of reliability glitches.
Recent reviews are starting to note that the Mazda3's getting dated, which it is (USB's only getting added next year). But, the silver lining with an older car is that many of the early production glitches have been ironed out. Mazda did build the all-new Skyactiv drivetrain into most of the Mazda3s sold this year. But, so far there have been no recalls or TSBs issued for the Skyactiv drivetrain and the Mazda3 actually improved its JD Power IQS ranking. It now ranks #4 among all compact cars, behind only the Corolla, Prius, and Civic.
Strange as it might sound, but the Mazda is more like the safe decision, while the Veloster is the riskier one with the bigger upside (i.e., performance, gadgets, adventurous styling, etc.).
I'm single and have little need for a backseat except as additional cargo area, so that changes things up a bit. Not that the Mazda3 has wonderful rear seat room, but the Veloster is much more deficient in the area.
Right now a person does much better with a good new American car.
American cars were looked upon, in the past, as good quality and they seem to have returned to those days, so more power to them.
Mazda's big problem is that they make all the Mazda3 models in Japan, and the exchange rate is too high to make production cost-efficient. Given the choice between raising prices and Honda/Toyota-style cost-cutting, I'll take the former. Note that the latter has NOT been well received by either consumers or the media. Toyota and Honda are big enough to absorb any after effects, but Mazda can ill-afford to take that kind of hit to their image right now. Heck, they're already cozying up with Fiat: the next Dodge Dart could be a SkyActiv. :shades:
We know the 2013 Mazda3 will add SkyActiv to an additional i trim, leaving only thefleet queen bottom one with the 2.0L MZR. Here's a change summary from all the sources I've found.
* SkyActiv engine standard on i Sport trim
* A/C standard on i SV trim.
* USB port standard on i Touring and Grand Touring (maybe i Sport also? found conflicting info on this)
* Multi-info display now standard on all i models
* Auto climate control standard on i Touring and Grand TOuring
* Push button start/passive key standard on to i Touring and Grand Touring
* Blind spot monitoring standard i Grand Touring and s Grand Touring, optional on i Touring
* Tocuh screen navigation added as an option to i Grand Touring (maybe i Touring also, not sure).
* Rain sensing wipers standard s Grand Touring
* Bi-xenon headlights standard on s Grand Touring
* Alarm system standard on s Grand Touring
I don't think they're making any changes to the SkyActiv powertrain, and they aren't putting the 2.2L diesel or the 2.5L SkyActiv yet. That might not happen until the redesign in a couple of years.
Once Mazda officially discloses what you get with the nav system, I think people will be impressed and see real value in it.
I'm hoping I can the 2013 i GT with the SKY and a manual. Or, will I have to get the sport to get everything I want? Thanks!
I'm wondering what, if anything will happen with the stereo info display. I'm assuming the small trip computer display will remain, but the stereo info might no longer be needed...except that the automatic climate control display is there too.
Someone else asked about the USB port. No idea, that's what stopped me from buying a 2012 also. I would assume it's in the armrest next to the AUX jack, as most manufacturers put it near the AUX jack, but that's based on no actual information.
I was thinking of heading to the Mazda dealer to ask them when the 2013s are showing up, but I'm afraid I'll drive off with a 2012. The incentives they've got are REALLY tempting. :shades: