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Comments
Does the Edmund's invoice numbers include TDA? Or does one add TDA to it to compare with the actual dealer invoice. I am negotiating an 04 build order for $100 over invoice but the dealer's invoice is higher than Edmunds by roughly the TDA figure. I seached through the message threads but most don't clarify if TDA is included. Also, any comments on if this is reasonble for an 04 would be appreciated. I am looking for a Titanium Sport V8 4x4 in the pacific northwest and can not find one, so pursing an order (if you know of one, let me know). Thanks in advance.
Edmunds price does not have TDA included. I haven't seen a site that includes TDA in the invoice price. $100 over inv + TDA is pretty good I think for an 04.
Thong
I am going to buy an 04 4Runner Sport 4WD V8 this xmas, and I was wondering how low do you think I can get the price? Just a few questions. I live in Omaha Nebraska, but I have family in Mississippi, so I will buy in either of those areas. I am also going to buy on the 31 of November, December, or January b/c I'm told thats the end of the month and dealers are anxious to make there quota.
1. Is it possible to get into any of the holdback for this vehicle. Its like $600 below invoice.
2. Whats the biggest rebate do you guys think will be available around this Xmas. I saw in Mississippi that there was at one point a $2500 rebate
Just returned from a local Dealer in Houston. I have requested to order a 2004 Limited 4x4 and offered $500 over invoice. The reason for the order to to avoid GST added items that are of no value to me. Print out from the dealer showed the following prices:
Base Price $31,904.00
Jbl 6 disc changer $544.00
Side Curtain Airbags $559.00
Carpet Mat Set $112.00
Freight $510.00
Deliv/Proc/Hand $575.00
TDA (advertising I think) $265.00
The total for above is $34,469.00 which I believe is close to invoice. In addition to this the following were added.
Base-Veh-HB $739.00
PIO-HB $11.00
Finance Reserve $369.00
If believe the first two items are Hold back they are charging me and the last, even the salesman did not know what was.
This comes to $35,588 plus $50 doc fee, $50 Texas vehicle Inventory tax, 6.25% sales tax, and $135 for title and tags. My question relates to the last three items. Why should I pay hold back and what is finance reserve. Also is it customary to pay the deliv/doc/hand fee of $575.00.
Thanks in advance.
barbed_war, it sure looks to me like they're trying a snow job on you. You probably know what holdback is, and you should consider financial reserve to be essentially the same thing. You shouldn't be paying either one, as they are actually money the dealer is going to get back from the factory. Also, I can't see why they should charge you freight+deliv/proc/hand+TDA. TDA is indeed advertising (Toyota Dealers Assoc.) and is a legit. charge. There is also a legit. destination fee that's listed here at Edmunds.com. Maybe Gulf States Toyota has more leverage there than dealers have here, but I'd resist these charges.
I consider legit. dealer invoice to be factory invoice (vehicle+opts.) plus destination charge plus TDA. Then subtract any factory rebates. I'd try to deal from there, keeping in mind that the dealer will eventually get back the holdback and financal reserve amounts from the factory. That's how dealers can (in theory anyway) sell you a vehicle at dealer invoice and still make a profit.
Gulf States and Southeast Toyota are big distributors that have a lock on certain areas of the country. This means that you may be stuck with dealer added options or fees that other markets don't have.
If your local dealers won't deal, about your only option is to shop in another state.
Steve, Host
I live in Philadelphia area. Have you got a good deal of 4Runner in Philly? Thanks!
UCSC
leather steering wheel
roofrack
17" aluminum wheels
dealer said he would throw in the floor mats
msrp=$28,905
paid invoice plus $500
which according to the dealer worked out to be $26,801
The dealer added another $598 dealer fee on top of that. I put $5000 down and financed through the dealer at 3.50% for 60 months. I live in Orlando, FL and believe that I got one of the first 04' models in the area, since I've been checking the inventory nearly daily for the past two weeks (my 97' accord's A/C has been bust for the past 3 weeks and its been like hell......got stuck in an awful traffic jam during lunch hour in about 90 degrees of Florida magic. Had enough and called the dealer and told them I wanted to buy today and they gave me the offer I just mentioned.
Tom
anyone else know of any good dealers in the LA/Long Beach area?
Is there a sulphur issue with the 6 cyl? Thanks, steve
The Pathfinder is due for a redesign, but I'm not sure of the timing. The new Pathfinder "Armada" is not a Pathfinder replacement. It's a full-size SUV, while the 4Runner and Pathfinder are mid-size.
awful experience. I'm in upstate NY and two weeks ago, I bought an 03 4Runner SR5 4X4 with sunroof, 17 inchers, etc. Sticker: $32,500. Purchase Price: $28,600. It appears that there is a $750 rebate from Toyota to the buyer (at least I have it deducted on my purchase order). Mine was manufacted in July and has the appearance package (no cladding), running boards, etc. Oh! As a point of reference, it REALLY helped to have the Carmax advertised cars and discounted prices from the internet. Once I let them know that I could easily avoid all the unpleasantries by driving to Maryland and get what I wanted with no haggling, the dealer changed their approach with me ("how much do you want off the sticker, sir?") VERY fast and brought back the above deal within minutes.
So far, only 600 miles but a very nice vehicle.
AW - 17" Alloy wheels
TH - Third row seat
DR - Roof rack
RF - Rear spoiler
PN - Anti-theft alarm
NJ - Homelink
EC - Auto-dimming mirror
NA - 115V AC
NE - Leather wrapped wheel
MSRP: 32055, invoice: 28489. No TDA charged or any other fee (besides the $540 destination charge which I included).
My price: $30350 with the dealer throwing in the all-weather floor mats.
This falls right in line the Edmunds TMV price (although the MSRP/invoice price Edmund's lists for the 3rd row seat is incorrect - they list $1195/$956 which is the price of this option when purchasing the Limited style, not the SR5 which is really $735/588; the difference being the Liimited is in leather).
Given that they threw in the floor mats, didn't charge for TDA or anything else, and gave me several hundred more in on my trade than what Edmunds recommends (and a little higher than KBB), I think I got a pretty good deal being this early in the season.
The salesperson mentioned to me that the sticker price already includes the TDA and that some dealers try to charge this again to the customer. I found this to be true for two other Toyota dealers I talked too.
The dealer I went through is Le Mieux Toyota in Green Bay (Wisconsin). Bergstrom Toyota in Oshkosh would do a custom order but they were several hundreds more in price, $700 less in on my trade, and tried to charge me a TDA of ~$325 plus a 'documentation' feel of $65. Kolosso Toyota of Appleton wouldn't even call me back to say if they would be willing to do a custom order.
I really feel like talking up the dealer I got this from. Returned my phone calls, very quick in determining if they could even do this, and proactive on making suggestions and explaining the whole process. I think they are a much smaller dealer than the other two and don't have much of a presence in the Fox Valley and Wisconsin that made them a little more customer orientated.
Now I just have to wait 2-6 months.
Regarding the 4-month window, I will try to reiterate what was told to me by the dealership. Whether this is all true or not I have no idea and regarding the process explained below I also have no idea if the limitations are put in place by the dealer, regional Toyota sales, or the headquarters. Also my memory could be a little faulty.
Since the car I wanted with the options I wanted was not available for the region I was in (Chicago) or any of the regions that were serviced by the same port of entry (I believe the port was in the northwest and the regions served by this were the NW region, Chicago, and Cincinnati?), a custom order from the factory had to be initiated rather than trying to get something from a different region in the US (due to cost or a Toyota 'rule' they did not say).
Toyota has in place some pretty stringent rules regarding placing a custom order. It basically has to be a done deal by the customer with a deposit. Once this has been verified the dealership said it takes about a month to get all of the paperwork squared away and the factory actually ready to look at building the custom order since the manufacturing capability is full up to that point.
At that time they actually fill up the manufacturing 'slots' for each region with the 'standard' vehicles that they normally build taking into account if certain dealers are requesting certain vehicles (that fit the standard options that they would normally get). Each dealership gets allocated a certain number of cars and within this allotment can try to switch around with other dealers' allotments to fulfill a need (either the dealership or a customers). I think this is done regionally.
Once all of the 'normal' manufacturing slots are taken care of, there is some capability to build custom orders from the factory. Normally the stock vehicles would be built in these places. Whether or not a custom order gets accepted is based on a couple of different factors, the most important one seeming how close the custom vehicle requested is to the stock vehicles that are normally built. With my order there was nothing really out of the ordinary about it. But if for some reason I wanted a 4x2 with out A.C. there is much less chance that the factory (or dealer) would accept a custom order.
Once the order has been approved they see if they could fit it into the schedule (which I believe is on a 2 week rotation). If it can, the dealer gets notified that the car is being built and what allotment it will be a part of. So if the factory can do the custom order right away and by the time it is built and shipped, it would be right around two months.
But if the factory for whatever reason doesn't decided to build the custom order for the current manufacturing period, they would take a look at it next time to see if they could fit it in. This process could go on for several months, hence the 6-month timeframe. They could even ultimately reject it, which would really stink.
Before they determined that what I wanted was a custom order (which I knew beforehand from talking with other dealerships), I let them know that I was talking to those other dealerships in the area. After they determined that it was a custom order I let them know that their main competitors would also do a custom order (which was a little white lie - only one of them would and they were much higher in price).
After they made sure I was a serious buyer they came back with their offer of 30350 (from an MSRP of 32055). That was when they mentioned that they might not be able to do better than that due to the effort involved. I didn't really argue the point since they were so much better in price than the other dealership and just asked for the all-weather floor mats and I would purchase from them for sure. So the deal went through.
I can definitely believe that it is a hassle for them based on what I saw from how the other dealers responded to me once they knew it was a custom order. I just think I lucked out that there was a dealer in my area that seemed to want to go the extra mile to please a customer. The other dealers are much bigger (having other locations selling other makes) and I can only assume that they make enough money just selling the 'normal' stuff.
But each dealer didn't really have that many on the lot (one had 2, one had 1, and one had 0) so maybe that was a little incentive for them to try and make a sale on something they didn't necessarily have. The dealer I purchased from did actually have one that was going to be as close as I could get from my region but I was pretty adamant and they stopped trying to push it (probably realizing they could sell it to someone else pretty easily).
coolpop36 - maybe the Limited you ordered was one that would be produced at some point in the future or was close enough to one that was going to be built anyway. Or maybe that is the actual time frame. The other dealer that offered to do a custom order actually quoted 8 weeks so maybe they knew that what I wanted was easy enough for the factory to build. They only mentioned 6 months I think just to prepare me for the fact that it could take that long, although they seemed pretty confident that it would take less than 4 (and put that date in writing). Who knows, they could still have been trying to convince me to purchase the one they had but we were pretty far in the process and I think that they knew I would not take it. Maybe I was hoodwinked, but it seemed to me that they hadn't done a lot of custom orders on the models produced in Japan and they were just trying to be honest but doing a little CYA. Like I said they seem to be a smaller dealer in the area and were a little more customer oriented.
I didn't try to do a national search by any means. I did at one time try to custom build a car through Toyota's web site by entering a zip of different areas of the country (I tried Atlanta and Los Angeles) but I still couldn't seem to get exactly what I wanted.
The dealer only did a search in my region and maybe the other regions serviced by the same port of entry. I do not believe they did a national search (a different dealer said that they could only do a locate in the region they were in).
The dealer wanted to be pretty sure that I wouldn't change my mind after the car came in and I would be willing to wait for it (hence the $500 deposit). But they said that if something major happened like a job loss they would understand and refund my deposit if the car was in the process of being built. Mostly due to the fact that the particular car I ordered with those particular options they thought they could still probably sell in the area.
In the contract it said they would keep the deposit if I changed my mind but like I said, at the time they at least talked like they would let me out of it if something happened. I made pretty sure to them that it was a 4Runner I wanted and nothing else and that I would wait for it (I have been looking at these since late spring).
I guess if something was wrong with it like the infamous sulphur smell, I assume it would be handled as if I had just picked one off the lot; nothing was stated in the contract concerning this.
I guess they were reasonably confident of being able to deliver it by then. They only mentioned the 6 months as a not-very-likely scenario I think.
Bob
Navigation, Power sunroof, Curtain & side airbags, X-REAS shocks, Rear spoiler, Running lights, Federal emissions, Floor mats, Hood protector, Galactic gray, Taupe leather; (8688, O1E9, LB42, FE,GY,NH,NV,RF,RL,SR,CF,HP) $38,922 delivered.
Just another way to get what you want. Some people may enjoy wrestling with the dealers and may or may not get the price or product they want, but having been thru that many times before this time was by far a MUCH BETTER experience!
But you said delivered, which includes tax, title, registration and other $$, then it might be a reasonable price. Also, try Carmax, the dealer in Maryland sells no haggle new Toyota's.
Steve, Host
metmdx
I liked it very much.
But soon I found lots of scratch under three door handles!!! I spot and bought the truck at night, did not notice those scratch under the door handles. My mistake!
Anyhow, add the fact the truck was out of battery when I tried to test drive it(the saleman said sb left the light on, which casued the batt.)
I am doubting the truck is demo and acutal mileage is much more than it is.
Is that possible dealer change the millage reader?
Please get me some insight, what should I do right now??? Thanks a million!!!
Looks like here is the final price I would have to pay, if anybody see that I am being ripped, please let me know.
MSRP (w/options) - $29695 (edmunds.com)
Invoice (w/options) - $26296 (edmunds.com)
Destination charge - $540
Price above invoice - $400 (this is something that I agreed to pay keeping in mind the scarcity of the 2004 sport models with V6)
The dealer also tried to add something called TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising fee) for $665. Lucky me I read the tips from the carbuyingtips.com website, I had him remove that fee.
My final price would be inovice + $400 + tax + fees (Destination + license/registration + doc).
Now my question is, the invoice price that edmunds.com lists, does this include any other "hidden fees" that we should bargain with the dealers? Also the dealer is charging $299 for doc fees and $500 for registration/license/etc, are these fees normal?
Thanks,
Ravi
MSRP $37859, I am getting $33748. Also went to the dealership for test drive and found a very young sales man. I think they are willing to work on the price due to their location. I also talked to friend in Huston TX working at Toyota dealership and he told me that I am getting a very good price even he quoted me $250 higher ( Out the door Price).