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Comments
Also check the price on Edmunds and there price with less options then what I got is $35,000 plus so I am happy and its a great SUV.
Talked to few other dealerships and they don't even want to talk around this price.
Dealership tied to make money on selling me the warranty for $2000 for 5 years or 75,000 miles. and I got them down to $1500 for 7 years/100,000 miles for platinum for Toyota with road side assistance. I know they made $100 over their Toyota web site invoice but I can always go back and have them change it as it is a prepaid expense. Talked to a friend with 4x4 experience and per him I can easily use warranty for more then what I paid as there is more ware and tare on 4x4's.
post #312 'What's this Toyota Advertising Fee?'
This evening I sat down with the sales representative to review the price of a 2004 4Runner. I offered $200 over invoice. They would not accept less then $700.00 over. They advised that they pay a TDA (Toyota Dealers Association) advertising costs for each vehicle and this cost is added to the final price.
Invoice for this 4Runner is $38,462.00, they are requesting $39162.00. This vehicle is not in stock, they will order and will try to have by late November.
This additional $500.00 will not defer me from the purchase.
My question is... Is this a real cost to the dealer or just another way to add additional profit?
This was the only dealer of the FIVE that I have contacted that has offered to find this 4Runner so maybe supply and demand will be costing me a little more.
- Upgraded JBL system with 10 speakers
- Sunroof
- Double decker cargo system
- Rear Spoiler
- Daylight running lights
- floor mats
Also I am putting tomorrow Waag FrontRunner and Rear Bumper Guard on. I have those babies waiting at home ready to go.
I bought 4Runner through one of the dealers in middle TN and waited almost 2 months for it to come in.
You can ask to see the manufacturer's invoice from the dealer, especially if you're negotiating from invoice. I believe it should be in there.
I will accept TDA as the cost of buying the truck. Prices vary alot by regions ...... Why?
Probably costs much more to advertise in places like Northern New Jersey - New York - Connecticut than in rural areas like Bucksnort, Tennessee or Bay St. Louis, Mississippi.
So why do some people end up buying at invoice or a couple hundred over? The dealer is probably passing on a factory to dealer incentive to make the sale or just accepting less. In my region an incentive to the dealer is currently $400.00 on the Runner, this ends 11/3.
I would like to see TDA as part of the MSRP.
"Many vehicle invoices include a legitimate advertising fee levied by either the manufacturer or regional dealer groups. Ad fees can range from less than 1% of the vehicle's MSRP to more than 3%, depending on region. Metropolitan-area dealers are more likely to charge higher advertising fees than rural dealers. Whenever there is an advertising fee, we take it into account when calculating TMV." (link)
Toyota gets a lot of grief around Town Hall for their TDA fees. They don't break out other costs of doing business and stick them in the invoice. People would really scream about a Toyota Dealer Electric Use fee!
Concentrate on the out the door price and it won't be as big an issue.
Steve, Host
It's hard to compare out the door pricing on Town Hall because sales taxes vary widely, not to mention ad fees.
But if you focus on what it costs you to do the deal, then you can let the dealer focus on how they want to allocate the proceeds of the deal, and you don't have to worry what amount goes to ad fees or commissions or the light bill.
Steve, Host
Steve is right, in cases like this, focus on getting the best overall deal, rather than in comparison to invoice. You can also look at no haggle dealers or places like carsdirect.com to see what numbers you shouldn't have to pay more than.
Toyota calculates holdback differently in different regions. In the Southeast it works like this...
Holdback = 2% of Total Invoice (including all options, not including destination.)
Wholesale Financial Reserve = 1% of Base MSRP (not including options or destination charges)
So, in the case of a Limited 4X4 V8 with a Base MSRP of 36970, a Total Invoice price (with options) of 38464 (Base Invoice of 33012). Holdback would = 769.28 and Wholesale Financial Reserve = 369.70 for a total of 1138.98 that is given back to the dealership after they sell the vehicle. Price they pay after the vehicle is sold = 38464 + 575 (destination) - 1138.98 = 37900.02.
Remember, this is money given back. These figures are included in the total invoice price. You just need to realize that the price the dealer pays for the vehicle is at MOST, Invoice Price - (Holdback + Financial Reserve). If they're a high volume dealer with good customer satisfaction ratings, they probably have even more incentives from Toyota. In my opinion, this money should pay for a lot of the costs of doing business + some profit if the vehicle doesn't sit on the lot too long. I'm not saying you should pay 1138 less than Invoice or even pay Invoice... You may pay more... But it's good to understand how it works. I hope I didn't confuse the issue.
I would always try to negotiate away any dealer doc fees. This is a cost of doing business and is in part paid for by Holdback and other dealer incentives. TDA - Another cost of doing business, but you may be stuck with this one.
Like it's been stated before... Concentrate on the Out the Door price.
As for my personal experience, it was pretty good overall. I would characterize it as painless friendly haggling. The various quotes that I had from other dealers and Edmunds were very helpful and made the negotion process pretty streamlined. Because I picked up the car that same day on a Saturday, it took awhile to have my 03 v8 Limited loaded ready. In the process of prepping it, the jackals who were washing my 4runner scratched the left rear bumper. I was pissed, but promised a quick repair the following business day, which came out very well. Overall, I was happy with my experience, but I might suggest that if anyone purchases a car, you might want to do without the complimentary potentially damaging car wash.
While I was shopping for my '03, one of the dealers I talked to was Stevenson East. They seemed pretty good, although I didn't end up buying there. Their best price was about what I got on carsdirect.com.
Punch him in the nose!
1) Transaction Privilege Tax
2) Vehicle License Tax (VLT)
3) Registration Fee
4) Title Fee
5) Postage Fee
6) Air Quality Research Fee
7) Air Quality Compliance Sticker Fee
8) Tire Disposal Fee
The “privilege” tax is simply the sales tax – the same one (usually 8.1% in metro Phoenix) that you pay on all other retail purchases. This tax typically adds thousands of dollars to a new vehicle purchase.
The VLT is an interesting beast – and no one I know had a clue as to how it’s calculated. Here’s how: take the Base MSRP of the vehicle you’re buying, obtain its assessed value by multiplying it by .6, and multiply the product by .028. Or, more simply, just multiply the Base MSRP by .0168. This tax is much higher than in other states and adds hundreds of dollars to a new vehicle purchase.
The Registration Fee is a flat $8.00, and title is $4.00. Postage is $1.60 (apparently the VLT isn’t quite enough to cover stamps) and Air Quality Research is $1.50. The tire fee is a dollar per tire, including spare. Finally, the sticker costs a quarter – and only metro Phoenix and Tucson get the privilege.
These are precisely calculated, compulsory taxes and fees. The dealer should never inflate these, so don't let them.
I have decided that if I can get the invoice price I will buy this month. However this TDA fee is frustrating me. I have recieved an offer for invoice, however there is still this pesky little fee.
Also, check this out guys. I also recieved an offer almost $800 below invoice on a 2003 + a $1000.00 rebate for a total price of $14,700. The reason for this was b/c it had been sitting on the lot for a long time. Its still about $3000.00 above my price range and I just can't justify the cost but its interesting at least.
I've heard of guys on here having the TDA waived. Who are you and what dealer did you buy through? I am going to special order, so I can pretty much buy anywhere and have it delivered to my state. I am in Omaha, Ne.
Always try to buy a car at the end of the month:).
If you get hung up on a fee, the salesperson is going to be able to say we don't waive that fee and are you willing to lose this deal for a few hundred bucks.
Name your price and you wind up negotiating the bottom dollar, not line items.
And if a dealer adds a fee after the "final" deal, walk.
Steve, Host
Let me know if my pricing seems right and any additional fees that I should be including.
2004 4 Runner V6 Limited 4x4
Invoice: $31,897.00
Dest Fee: $540
Sunroof: $720
Floor Mats: $112
Daytime Running Lights: $32
Rear Spoiler: $160
JBL 6CD/10 speakers: $544
Total Invoice: $34,005 (tax,title, tags, etc)
What extra fees should I be adding in and what do you think is a fair price? Thanks
It was Stevinson toyota East on Havana. They were really great in negotiating, made us feel comfortable and offered a very reasonable price as you can tell. They are definitely worth a shot if anyone is thinking of getting a new toyota.
sunroof
rear cargo shelf
JBL 10 speaker
Dual Borla exhaust
rear spoiler
running boards
floor mats
5 yr/75000 extended warranty
First of all the TDA seems to be legit. I got the invoice price + the TDA at one dealership. I then called at least 3 other dealers and basically said if you waive the TDA I will buy from you. These were sales managers too. They all said that Toyota charges them the TDA fee and there is nothing they can do. They said they couldn't waive it even if it meant them loosing a sale. Being that is the 31st of the month and all three of them said the same thing I believed them. However I did do some research. In other regions than Nebraska the TDA fee is different. In one place I called the TDA was only 325. I decided to order from my home though and just accept the loss.
I paid invoice plus a $95.00 doc fee.
These are the options I got.
EJ JBL Synthesis 3-in-1 Stereo w/6- Disc Changer info
GY Curtain and Side Airbags info
PN Anti-Theft Alarm System info
RF Rear Spoiler info
EC Electrochromic Rearview Mirror info
CM Double Decker Cargo info
NA 115V AC Power Point info
RL Daytime Running Lights info
The edmunds prices on these are exactly correct.
Invoice for a Sport V8 4WD with these options is $31626
The TDA was $687
The Doc fee was $95
And there was a $6 gas fee. Didn't ask about that one.
Total was $32,414
I feel pretty good about this deal. $35,765 was MSRP and it would have been $36553 with TDA and Doc fee.
If any of you guys think this is a bad deal tell me. I special ordered and I can cancel anytime.
This is how I got invoice. I went online to the internet sales manager at a different dealership, and after going back and forth with them I got an offer of Invoice + 300. I then went to Performance Toyota and said that I wanted the invoice price. My exact words were"I have invoice + 300 right now, and I want the invoice price. If you give me say Invoice + 200 I'll just go to the next dealer and get invoice +100 and come back to you". They then gave me the invoice price.
I told them that I would sleep on it. Today I called them up and asked about there doc fee. It was $199. I told them that the other two Toyota dealer's in the area had a $95 doc fee and if you matched that I would come on in. The salesmanager agreed, and I came in and made the deal. I was tempted to press and see if I could have gotten the doc fee waived, but I decided enough was enough.
Anyway, again thanks for all the advice on this board. Oh, and the dealer I went through was Performance Toyota of Lavista Nebraska, and the salesman I used was Mark Husar.
Thanks again.
Sounds to me like you got a pretty good deal.
cliffy1 "Toyota 4Runner" Nov 3, 2003 7:10pm
Steve, Host
4Runners continue to sell well - most dealers wish they had more in stock - so there really is no need for incentives at this point. IMHO
Steve, Host
Having done my homework and reading all the Edmunds 4Runner posts, this prepared me very well for this visit.
The dealer asked what I was looking for so I handed them a list of the color and options.
They had nothing arriving with these options this month but within 15 minutes located two vehicles, one in code A (Allocation), the other in code F (Freight). Through allocation they would trade with the dealer that would be receiving that unit and have it shipped from the port to them. The other option was to purchase the unit in freight. They advised that freight meant it was essentially being prepared for or in transit to the dealer it was assigned to. This would be the fastest process, available very soon. It would be driven from the dealer receiving to my dealers location with a drivers fee of $200.00. Apparently dealers do these type trades often. I did not like the idea of it being driven so I decided on the allocation method, (shipped to the dealer I am doing business with) that way the new truck will have the minimum miles on it.
After all this we finally discussed price and came within $500.00 of my target. I told them what I wanted to pay and if they would accept they had a deal. They did not accept and I saw this was not going any further so I decided to leave and asked them to call me back if they accepted my offer. After what I had been through with the other dealerships, I thought this was more of the same. Saturday morning they called me and said the price I offered was accepted. I visited them that afternoon leaving a $500.00 deposit. Total time spent on this deal was maybe an hour.
Monday morning they will confirm that the order has been placed and by Wednesday give an approximate time when they will receive it. They said this process usually takes a month.
This dealer was able to locate what I wanted with no problem. The other dealers never made this attempt plus their prices were higher. Maybe I could have done better but am satisfied with this price.
>>>>>Now lets see if I actually get this truck in a reasonable amount of time.
The price on my Purchase Order is Invoice plus TDA. The TDA on this truck (dealer advised?) is $437.00
MSRP 43,700.00
Invoice 38,565.00
TDA 437.00
Total 39,002.00
Natural White with Oak Interior
options:
SR Moon Roof
GY Curtain Air Bags
RF Rear Spoiler
RL Daytime Driving Lights
CF Floor mats
NF Rear Air Suspension with X-REAS
NV Navigation
WL Wheel Locks
WH Wireless Head phones
The only other costs will be a documentation fee of $150.00, $67.50 tag transfer and 6% sales tax.
I was between the Titanium Silver and Natural White, can easily live with either, just liked the white a little more in this vehicle.
Edmunds TMV on this is $40,638.00 so my price of $39002.00 plus $150.00 destination is probably a very good deal. Wonder if the dealer is getting an incentive from the factory to make this offer?
Does not really matter as long as my out the door price is what I am satisfied with paying!!
I was considering waiting under December or January hoping for an incentive but I have my 02 4Runner sold and do not want to hold that buyer up. Currently have a 0% finance rate through Toyota (TFS) on my 02 Sport Edition, doubt we will ever see that again on a 4Runner.
Now I hope this dealer does follow through and gets this vehicle in a reasonable time.
Options:
CX90 Rear Spoiler
SRAT Moon Roof
GYAT Side Curtain Air Bags
RLAT Daytime Running Lights
PV60 Carpet/Trunk Mats
NFAT Rear Air Suspension with X-REAS
NVAT Navigation System
I took delivery of this truck in Charlotte, NC on Friday. I'm really enjoying it so far!
MSRP - $43834
I paid $38630 + 3% NC Use Tax + 57.50 NC Registration
I'm very happy with the out of the door price I paid. Good luck everyone!
This is a good ((GREAT)) price, awesome truck!
I am still waiting for mine (see post #348).
After searching for my first preference color of white, my dealer asked if I had a second choice. I chose Titanium with Stone. He advised that this color would be easier to locate or to order and that he should have something within two weeks.
After reading the price you price paid, I believe the dealers must be receiving some type of rebate or have some other incentive to sell at these numbers. Or perhaps they are not selling as well as expected when loaded with these options.
Did you inquire about a price for the Toyota Platinum warranty? If you are going to keep the 4Runner past 3 years or 36K miles, it may not be a bad idea. Of course you can purchase this warranty anytime before one of these time or mileage intervals occur.
And did you do much shopping before getting this deal? I shopped a few dealers before getting my price and I am pleased with it. Now just need to get the new Runner!
Good Luck with your new 4Runner and keep us posted on your driving experience.
I would still recommend FitzMall, but their ability to communicate to their clients could certainly be better. It took me almost a month to get a straight answer out of them – and then only with the prodding of Toyota Corporate.
I said this is a unusual situation you have to calculate not top to bottom you have to go bottom up. So they accept the offer and I sign all the paper work and in two weeks I got my car, so far so good I don’t have any sulfur smell and I’m happy.
My 4Runner has all the standard features and some extra options:
2004 4Runner SR5 2WD V6 4 Spd Auto
Titanium Metallic w/Stone interior
17” Wheels w/Michelin Cross-Terrains 265x65x17
Roof Rack & Cross Bar
Lthr Wrap Steering Wheel w/Cruise & Audio
Remote Security System
Leather Faced Seats (for stone color interior)
Rear Spoiler
Carpet Mats and Trunk Mat
4Runner price $26702 less trade-in $3000 plus dealer fee $700 plus Sales tax $1514 plus Tag $84 less Down payment $9200 less dealer discount $500 plus Leather faced seats $1200 and bottom line Financed $17500 with 3.99% w/5 years.
I hope this info will help the feature 4Runner buyers.
ordered SR5 and told mid January delivery..
not sure it will be honored or not.
is anyone who special ordered share your
experiance?
http://setbuyatoyota.com/inventory/monroney.asp?recno=13763&m- odel=8642&dealer_name=Stadium+Toyota%2C+Inc%2E&phone=813%- 2D872%2D4881&dealer_code=09154&msrptotal=30319&vehicl- e_price=30319
Tangman
Sunroof
JBL 10 speaker system
Leather seats
Double decker system
Electrochromatic mirror
Carpet mats
Bullcrap Toyogaurd protection
Sticker price was $ 36,486.00