New S40/V50

ateixeira · June 2004

Get the Legacy. Mighty fine vehicle, actually. Took one for a spin in the Las Vegas Motor Speedway infield track and it was just dreamy.

Quicker than the T5 with AWD for better balance, plus roomier inside. The S40 is more WRX sized really.

-juice

saedave · June 2004

Juice

I did not like the GT's throttle response at all....lag followed by too much...nasty in Chicago's heavy traffic. The Outback H6 engine was fine, but ride was not as good as the GT. I'll just keep my W8 Passat wagon for another year or so. When the Acura RL AWD shows up I'll drive it.

ateixeira · June 2004

Did you drive an automatic? The manual is a little more responsive. FWIW, the ones I drove were broken in. I was at a dealer training event, basically, as a guest. Those performed better than what I'm hearing from people that test drive brand-new models at dealers. Perhaps there is something to this "adaptive" transmission stuff?

I'm looking forward to Acura's new Super Handling - All Wheel Drive, though the RL is too rich for me!

I'm surprised, though, isn't the S40 a bit small if those are the models you're cross shopping? Why not an V70R AWD?

-juice

saedave · June 2004

I would prefer a Golf 3.2l 4Motion 6 speed auto to all of these...except for the famous VW/Audi electrical gremlins. The 4Mo Golf won't be here soon enough, I believe. I do NOT intend to keep the W8 to the end of its warranty....some left over may be necessary to sell it.

The lag on the GT turbo was very prominent; it is hard to believe that break-in would help that much. My old 2.5l GT (1997) took forever to break in, but still had some hesitation even without a turbo.

The RL could be a "keeper" that would warrant its price unlike the S4 Avant that is nearly a repeat of my W8 wagon at a ridiculous price. Imagine an S4 out of warranty!

avolvofan · June 2004

You would be surprised at the learning function of the GearTronic transmission. When the wife drives my S60, it takes around 50 to 75 miles before the GearTronic gets back to my profile. What you are experiencing definitely sounds like a learning function in process.

ateixeira · June 2004

Golf is smaller and usually the sporty ones have just 2 doors.

V50 is very roomy, more so than the S40, especially rear head room.

-juice

saedave · June 2004

Juice, the Golf has great front seats that are very comfortable and bigger than those in the S40 I sat in. On paper the V50 seems much better than the Golf. I will have to try the seats and drive the V50 when they arrive at the dealer. Interior quality of the S40 is inferior to the Golf. When the new Golf arrives here (early 2006?)with the approx. 240 hp 3.2 litre engine and Haldex AWD it will be a head-on competitor to the V50. I think that without all wheel drive the S40 and V50 have little to offer over various FWD vehicles like the Mazda3, etc.

cotmc · June 2004

How about all the safety engineered into the S40?

I would also argue the S40 has a better drivetrain and more refined and solid interior. Yeah, the interior is on the "modest" side, but I prefer modest over flashy, trendy, or whatever. For example, I completely dislike the Mazda 6 interior.

There are also some cool features, such as the menu-driven customizing options for the car (climate control, key operations, audio, etc).

cotmc · June 2004

On a related subject (barely)...

I am very impressed with my S40 tranny's responsiveness to downshift requests when I am driving in Manual Mode. It seems to downshift as soon as I hit the gearshift lever, with no noticeable lag whatsoever. It is much more responive than my 2000 BMW StepTronic, which typically exhibits about a 1-second delay.

ateixeira · June 2004

V50 should be about the same size as the Jetta wagon, actually. The boxy rear helps you fit boxes inside.

I agree that the Jetta has nicer materials inside. Volvo's are inconsistent, some are very nice, others look cheap, mostly below the waist line. I really like the floating center console, though.

I like Mazda's dash design, too, the sporty cockpit feel.

-juice

saedave · June 2004

The Mazda3 has one huge advantage over the Volvo: NO European electric or electronics. Volvo's gremlins are not as bad as the German ones, but are still a problem.

While the Volvo version of the new Mazda/Ford platform may have a few more safety features, it is still a small car in an SUV world. For more safety, buy bigger and heavier as well as more crush space.

creakid1 · June 2004

according to my test drives. A FWD S40, even w/o DSTC, doesn't break the tail loose easily during abrupt lane change the way a Mazda3 or std 325i do.

Plus:
http://sdm3.rm04.net/servlet/MailView?ms=MjUxMzc5S0&r=NTIyNzA- 5MjM3S0

creakid1 · June 2004

"I agree that the Jetta has nicer materials inside. Volvo's are inconsistent, some are very nice, others look cheap, mostly below the waist line. I really like the floating center console, though."

I don't care for the floating center console, which forces all buttons to become soft touch rather than mechanical. For instance, my cars got A/C button that clicks inward when on, so I don't even have to look at it when driving.

But Jetta IV's interior simply sucks! Don't let the finish material overwhelm your logic, & I'm not talking about the reliability. It's the ergonomics nightmare. What the heck is the that low location for the stereo/HVAC? So it looks more like an Audi A4 &, therefore, more expensive looking? Even w/ telescopic steering column to impress, my 5'11" frame still find the steering wheel too far away, as if only the non-transversely-mounted VW's like the Passat can allow me to hold the steering wheel. But then even the Passat's door armrest is too low to rest my left elbow while driving, ditto the 325i. That's where the new S40 comes to rescue w/ that beautifully high door armrest. I wonder what other car has it?

The problem is that I like to adjust the seat sitting high but doesn't want a clumsy SUV.

avolvofan · June 2004

You should check out the IIHS (www.iihs.org) crash test of the new S40. It (the new S40) did better than the S60 did. In particular, there were problems with the S60 in regard to intrusion into the driver footwell. With the S40, no intrusion problems. While it is tempting to think that heavier equals safer, that is not necessarily the circumstance. (Although, I wouldn't put a 3,000 lb. car (such as the S40) up against a 5,500+ lb. SUV.)

creakid1 · June 2004

How much weight will be on top of you when you're in an upside down SUV?

I remember seeing a N. California earth-quake picture. Only the Volvo(a 700 series) had the roof not collapsed by the falling bricks. All other vehicles, including a Chevy Suburban, had their roof/pillars flattened!

But who cares as long as you're such a skillful driver that you'll duck every accident anyway. It's the new S40's high door armrest, not high center of gravity, that rules! ;-)

ateixeira · June 2004

creakid1: so how do you feel about VW ergonomics? LOL

All cars have to withstand 150% of their own weight on their roofs, but trucks are exempt from this safety standard. However, some trucks do meet it.

-juice

creakid1 · June 2004

150% is ok if the vehicle lands upside down slowly, but not enough if it's slammed down w/ some g-force.

VW used to have high location for the stereo & HVAC, but the steering wheel locations are always a long reach on models w/ transversely mounted engine.

avolvofan · June 2004

150% of vehicle weight turned over is nowhere near what would be experienced in a real world roll-over event. Additionally, in the real world roll-over, the sides of the car get hit as well. I have seen some cars (whose manufacturers will be nameless) that had the roof completely caved in from a roll-over event. I have also seen a Volvo 850 that was rolled. While the Volvo 850 was a write-off, the occupants walked away from the roll-over. Personally, I would trust the Volvo to do better in a roll-over event than a car from some asian manufacturers.

jthorsen · June 2004

OK, so the Mazda 3 and the S40 are built off the same "platform", right? But what exactly does the "platform" encompass?

Does the 3 have the same structure as the S40 with increasing strengths of steel as you get closer to the cabin, or is that a Volvo exclusive? I noticed the 3 is slighty longer, but also several hundred pounds lighter. Is the weight difference from the structural make-up or the fact that they have different engines, transmissions, etc. or both?

Thanks!

stickguy · June 2004

The 3 does not have all of the sophisticated features and materials that the Volvo has. The Platform is really the basic structure but is modified by each company.

The weight difference is probably a combination of the safety structure, and added features (power seats, etc) and materials (ie sound deadening).

ateixeira · June 2004

If you slam down any car on its roof, it's gonna cave! ;-)

Volvo showed the unique side door beams that protect the vehicle in side impacts. BMW and Audi use round tubes, while Volvo used high tensile steel shaped in a pattern that gave it much more strength.

Not sure if the Mazda3 gets that, anyone seen a cutaway?

-juice

creakid1 · June 2004

by how far?

The 700-series TV commercial showed the car having no problem carrying a large delivery truck on top of its roof. So that's way higher than 150% of its own weight.

creakid1 · June 2004

"Personally, I would trust the Volvo to do better in a roll-over event than a car from some asian manufacturers."

When I was a teenager, I rolled over an '83 Mazda 626 5-dr hatch but walked away w hardly any injury. The car rolled several times but didn't hit anything. Me, being near 5'11", also had the seat raised pretty high. So that was a close call, as the roof collapsed just ahead of the B-pillar. If it was the coupe w/ the more-rearward-located B-pillar, then...

avolvofan · June 2004

There is a very significant difference between the S40's construction and the Mazda and Focus construction. Steel strength is one area. A lot of the components that are found in the S40 are not in the Mazda or Focus. The platform is basically the floorpan with additional bits and pieces. The rest of the car is specific to the manufacturer.

guyfr · June 2004

Volvo over design their vehicules for roll-over protection. Download the largest brochure and in one of the inbedded clips they show an XC90 that they have trown sideway to make it roll-over. Very impressive.

http://www.volvocanada.com/index.asp?pag=brochure&lng=en&- - col=anigreen&typ=cars&car=xc90

Juice, you may remember me from the Santa Fe forum in 2001. Still have the Santa Fe but my daughter is driving it most of the time now. Great car btw, very reliable and fun to drive in the snow. I'm now driving a 2.5 XC90 and looking for a S40 for my wife next spring.

Guy

ateixeira · June 2004

Long time, no see. You had a different handle back then, right?

Hyundai has made great strides. They beat Toyota in the JDP IQ study this year.

S40 base or T5? I thought the T5 was tighter and more fun. Base is more than adequate, though. You doin' Euro delivery?

-juice

guyf · June 2004

Yes, I have a different handle on my work computer. Not sure about european delivery, it may not fit our schedule next spring. Probably a base with leather and a few comfort options. We once had a 98 S70 T5 manual and it was really too much for our needs. BTW when I want to go fast I just use my Yamaha FJR 1300.

Are you still driving a Sub?

Guy

ateixeira · July 2004

'98 Forester, and a '93 Miata I picked up used as a toy.

I'm eligible for certain tax breaks as a G-4 visa holder, so I could do euro delivery and get an even lower price than a US citizen could.

-juice

jminer1 · July 2004

I've heard of this "euro delivery" stuff, but I'm not really sure how it works. Can someone explain the details to me?

Thanks.

stickguy · July 2004

You make the deal at your local Volvo dealer, basically at a pre-determined price. Spec out the car the way you want it, leave a deposit, and they place the order. At some point before it is built, you need to pay for the balance (finance, lease, whatever). When it is built, you fly to Sweden to pick it up at the factory delivery center. Have a nice vacation driving your new car around Europe, and when you are done, drop the car off at the shipping center.

Wait a few weeks (4-6 possibly) and your car will arrive at the dealer where yo uget it back.

Volvo normally includes 1 round trip airfare to Sweden (sometimes 2), and a night in a hotel as part of the package. The prices can also be very good, sometimes outstanding, but it's hard to tell sometimes if the normal incentives are as good or better. At least you get the free vacation out of it.

One of the big drawbacks is having to pay for the car in advance, and then waiting for it to be shipped. You really need to be able to hang onto your old car for a while after paying for the new one, but if you can do that, it can be a great time (from what I've heard).

Participation can vary by dealer, and some hot models are excluded, but the dealer has all the details.

volvomax · July 2004

Volvo ic currently offering 2 round trip tickets.
Free night at hotel in Gothenburg only.
The only car that can't be ordered right now in the S60R.

ateixeira · July 2004

V70R would be really fun. We're not shopping in that segment, though.

-juice

jchan2 · July 2004

Volvo recently sent me a brochure that talked about the European delivery. They were offering 2 business class seats on SAS, one night at a hotel in Gothenburg, and the typical 8% off MSRP. I'm sure Saab also has European delivery, but their program I think only includes one ticket (probably in Coach) to Gothenburg and one night at a hotel in Gothenburg.

creakid1 · July 2004

for the '05 OSD program?

I was hoping the 6-sp '05 North-American-spec T5 would come w/ the missing charcoal filter w/ auto recirculate.

volvomax · July 2004

As far as I can tell, a power passenger seat is not a stand alone option on either S40 for TDS.

bigbutr · July 2004

I recently test drove both the 2.4i and the T5. While at the dealership, salesman told me one of the incentives being offered on the 2004.5 is a no-cost Premium Package option. Basically, what amounts to a $1,900 credit, is what he said.
Has anybody heard this from other dealerships? Could this just be a Southeast thing, since getting leather, moonroof, etc. at no charge is a pretty sweet deal.
Or do you think it's just blowing smoke to maybe dropping the MSRP down some to make you think you're getting something for nothing?
I like the S40 because there just aren't a lot of them around here. Everybody's got an Accord or Camry or Altima and I'm not convinced VW has got its service department failings corrected. The Mazda 3 and 6 are nice, but still relatively new.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Steve
Dothan, Alabama

Kirstie_H · July 2004

You might also check in our Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments discussion for feedback.

volvomax · July 2004

The free Prem pkg offer is legit.
It's a nationwide program.

creakid1 · July 2004

a power passenger seat is a stand alone option for the OSD '04.5 S40.

Heck, I don't give a damn about motorized seats. I just want a full adjustment, including lumbar, on the passenger seat so I can impress someone important sitting next to me. Or just to show off to the BMW 3-series owners...

But then, the manual seat-height crank from Ford MoCo is not lasting -- as those Mazda3's w/ the same crank were coming loose in the RevItUp event I attended!

jchan2 · July 2004

The Build And Price portion of the V50 site is up, just an FYI to y'all. Does the free premium package thing apply to the V50 too?

gambit293 · July 2004

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040708/lath062_1.html

volvomax · July 2004

I don't recall reading about a power(or otherwise adjustable) passenger seat.

Free vers pkg is not offered on the V50.
Most V50's won't arrive till Fall.

saedave · July 2004

I just tried the build and price section: A V50 with somewhat similar equipment to my Passat W8. The total comes to about the same as a Passat V6 4Motion wagon! At that price this gussied-up Mazda 3 is no bargain at all. If the seats and interior quality are no better than the S40 with leather that I looked at, there will be no reason for a premium price. For amusement I am going to look at the Mazda 3s and see if there is much difference in quality.

stickguy · July 2004

The Mazda 3 IMO is done to a very high quality standard. You just don't get all the features, along with some addtional sound deadening, etc.

creakid1 · July 2004

if that's what you want. That's why Mazda just raised the price. ;-) 'cause the quiet-revving 2.3 Mazda3 looks like a bargain next to the S40 2.4i w/ optional sport suspension.

But I'd rather pay extra & take the S40 T5 for the std softer & calmer/slower-movement suspension. Even the std 325i can't do that!

Try the powerful T5 w/o sport suspension. It still handles great plus w/o any nervousness & makes you feel like a boss. Thanks to the Focus II suspension/steering.

creakid1 · July 2004

I want to spend $1200 less on a white 6-sp T5(rather than the noisier auto 2.4i premium w/ metallic) w/ the comfy T-tech fabric & extra headroom from a moonroof-less car. Besides, I need to add the upgrade stereo, bi-xenon & DSTC.

& does OSD still require the premium package?

volvomax · July 2004

Yes it does require the Prem pkg.
Probably till the end of the year, although I will have to check on that.

acrockett149 · July 2004

As I am looking into the OSD program I see that they give you a free vacation and a lower MSRP. Where is the catch? Do you have to pay to have your car shipped back to the U.S.? Are there any importation fees? Also, why would Volvo and Saab do this? Is it mainly brand loyalty?

Otherwise this sounds like an amazing deal for a car like the new S40 T5. I think I will try and wait to get it in manual.

stickguy · July 2004

You don't pay any additional shipping or import fees. It gets shipped to a dealer just like any other unit.

Volvo does it because it helps them sell more cars, and they make money at it. basically they sell it to you for the price they would otherwise charge the dealer (not exactly, but thats the concept), plus a mark-up to cover the fee they pay the dealer for handling the paperwork, etc.

You are right that it can be a very good deal 9even without the free vacation).

creakid1 · July 2004

Aren't we getting the premium package for free these days anyway, & OSD requires you to buy the premium package?

New S40/V50

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