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New S40/V50
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Comments
That center console location is genius! You can just rest your palm or wrist on the shifter & type anything you want on those shapely buttons w/o looking! Except that the buttons do not retract when switched on like the typical A/C button on a base Japanese car.
What's wrong w/ the Mazda3? It's the closest thing to your E30 BMW. Or if you must have a meaty hydraulic steering driven by engine belt such as the upcoming 1-series, then take the sedan version of the Focus SVT -- the '05 Focus ST sedan w/ Mazda engine. The reliability should be ok by now, per CR.
The ergonomics on the center console may be brilliant but the looks of it are very cheap. In fact, the whole instrument panel - dash is cheap looking.
This is going to be a major turn-off coming from people who own BMW 3, Audi A4, and similar Japanese cars.
Your right about the black interior. That was the color in all the pictures I saw up until I sat in it so you didn't notice it on the web. I wanted to get the Premium Package and with the wood inserts it looks much worse.
My problem is there should be some meat behind it just to fill in the bare area so it looks like a normal console. Immediately I thought I was sitting in a cheap rental car....like a Focus.
For almost a year I have been telling everyone this is going to be my car. They said "How can you say that about a car you havn't seen". I told them there would have to be something really screwy with the car for me to not get it because I don't like anything else out there in my price range.
I sat in the car for about 2 minutes and told the dealer it had to be a joke. All he could say was "The Boston Globe had a good write-up on it".
The bottom line is the interior looks cheap and plain. With leather and moonroof it will cost $27.1K for 5 cylinders. I can get a 6 cylinder BMW 3 for about $4K more and I don't have to be used as Volvo beta tester.
Is it because the driving position is so uniquely low-slung & laid back? Then go for the more upright Mazda3 then. Watch out for the 17" wheels that ride concrete hard.
The Mazda6 sedan, C-class sedan, Lexus IS & Jag S-Type are few of today's sedans that still offer a wide rear glass for me to comfortably view what's behind me, whether it's for lane change, passing or looking out for cops on the S. California fwy.
To be honest, I don't want to buy another BMW either. I don't like any of the dealers in my area. My car is a 1988 325 and has been dealer serviced for almost it's entire life. The way I have been treated the last few years, they don't deserve my business for another round.
Now that I have found a good independant mechanic, I may just hold onto it until it dies because there is nothing out there that excites me. Plus, I love beating the system.
I have sat in an S40 as well. (waiting for the wagon, however) The interior is certainly not cheap. It is minimalist elegance.
People conditioned to respond only to traditional furniture also tend to eschew modern furniture design as cheap. Those who do understand, appreciate the materials, design and work behind modern design takes more effort and expense than more conventional designs.
Volvo is offering a real alternative. If you want what everyone else has, good. There are plenty of other makes doing the exact same thing as they always have. Those of us who want and appreciate something different are pretty happy to see the Volvo offerings.
If you read enough reviews, you can find any opinion that you want. You will also become so befuddled that you will never buy a car.
There is no such thing as a perfect car (especially when price is a consideration). And no one can tell you what you like. So, drive anything you are interested in, and decide what you like.
It does seem that there are some people that will never be satisfied with anything, so they shouldn't even bother to shop. Either that, or pony up the big $$ and get a 5 series or whatever it is that serves as your ideal dream car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I like that the S40 is a polarizing car. For too long Volvo has been bland, this is a love/hate kind of car.
There are no "perfect" cars out there and its easy to succumb to analysis paralysis, especially if it's been a long time between purchases.
It's about Acura TSX-sized. Subaru is rumored to beef up their warranty for 2005 as well. The 2.5T engine is based on the one in the WRX STi, which means semi-closed deck block, forged pistons, the works.
I see it completing with the S40 T5 AWD when that model arrives.
-juice
Will have to toodle over and see it when it arrives. Hopefully they fixed the 2 main problems I had with my wife's 1992 Legacy (overly stiff clutch, and horribly uncomfortable seats). Still the most reliable new car I ever bought.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I waited about a year for this car and loved everything about it until I saw the interior. Say what you want. The console is a discrace for a car priced like this. It is plain and cheap looking. It may have good materials and engineering but it is cheap looking and insulting.
Volvo is the only car company I know that consistantly offers $5K Dealer Incentives in order to sell cars...even in the Spring.
There is a reason for this. The reason is they are too polarizing. This is thier second try at being different with the S40 and they will fail again.
Put it this way - I don't like the seats on our 2002 Legacy L, but the 2005 GT's are night-and-day better.
Great seats like Volvo is famous for, to bring this back on topic.
FWIW, I found the S40 interior to be innovative, the "floating" console is interesting. I'm not crazy about painted silver (fake metals) but it's par for the price class.
-juice
BMW 3 - Not reliable, everyone has one because of leasing deals. Arrogant dealers and service. Too expensive. Most of the car is made in Germany and the transmission is made in France. Not exactly my two favorite countries at the moment."
Boy! Don't you have any preconceived ideas and aren't you discriminatory?!!!
What's next? You are going to refuse putting gas in your car because it comes from the Middle East?!!!!
The new S40 console design is innovative and does not look any cheaper than other comparable cars. You are not the type of guy that can think outside the box, that's all! Nothing wrong with that, but admit it and stop bashing the S40 and other countries!
My comments about BMW 3's are from my own experience, other owners of German cars, Consumer Reports, and other information available to people who want to express and listen to opinions.
Seems like you have a preconceived idea of anyone who doesn't have the same thinking as you. Isn't being politically correct thinking inside the box ?
Country Bashing ? If I don't want to give my money to companies from countries, I have a problem with politically, I have that right. But, if you read carefully, it's not my number 1 priority.
Yeah, your right, it doesn't exactly thrill the heck out of me to have to pay $2 to $3 for a gallon of gas. How about you ?
I have my opinion and you have yours. Why can't you leave it at that ? Who the hell are you to tell me what I can or can't say ?
Like cell phones, they are getting less bulky.
I find all cars so distant from perfection that I have to ignore the badge & even styling. The S40's interior looks boring w/ that simple-shaped dash, but that center console is a smart design, except that the switches on it are by wire & not the more intuitive conventional mechanical ones.
I still rate its overall interior design the best due to the driving position & ergonomics alone!
Each dealer I visited in Torrance & Pasadena had one, but only w/ the $450 metallic paint.
It's cool to raise the seat/steering so high to take advantage of the moonroof-less headroom.
Is the Volvo S40 drive event similar ?
The Lexus's & GM's had other cars to compare.
The Mazda RevItUp events are for the $40 school/racing to win one Mazda sedan nation wide. & all the newest-style Mazda vehicles are there on the test-drive section, which is free for everyone. & like Volvo's, no non-Mazda cars for comparison.
Regarding Volvo reliability, the 60, 70, and 80 series models are all "recommended", with a respectable "average" reliability rating. (This is respectable compared to some other European cars, such as Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, and most VW models).
In order to stand out from all the other near-luxury small sport sedans, I agree that Volvo was correct in taking some risks and providing the S40 with a "polarizing" interior design.
I need to ask something. Exactly where ARE these events? Do they ever come to NY State, or do they, like everyone else, think there is nothing in NY State north of NY City? (Hmm, you mean maybe I live in Canada? Hehehe)
Sign up soon. Space's limited. But be there anyway for the free test drive of the Miata turbo, RX-8 auto that rides softer than the 3i, etc.
Hmm, might have to go just to try out the RX8 though, even though I'm not worthy. BTW, don't knock my 3s suspension.
A lot of people may think Mazda is king, but C&D nailed it. They found the Mazda6 running out of suspensions travel even easier than the Accord's softer setting. The Accord's long springs made it the king in this area.
It seems the "Focus system" has failed & is no match for the BMW 3-series. The SVT may ride & handle like the 3-series w/ the lowered sport suspension but not the ride/handling compromise of the 325i sedan's longer-travel regular suspension.
I like the new S40's interior, but as the Brit magazines(i.e., AUTOCAR, etc.) pointed out that the T-5's ride comfort doesn't have the 3-series/Jag X-Type's last 15% of polish , while not having the handling composure to cope w/ its own 17" wheels. Was that the regular or sport suspension? Even if it's the regular & you can upgrade to sport suspension to improve the composure, the ride will be even worse still. Anyway, for us buyers here, take the sport suspension w/ the 16"s as equipped on the 2.4i sport & forget about being power greedy by getting the T-5 turbo that lacks direct throttle response. Also, the T-5 sport's 17" wheels made "the T-5 stampedes down a typical British B-road rather than flowing with poise."(p.57, 23 March 2004 AUTOCAR) & its std T-tech-fabric power driver seat & auto climate control are point less, as their lack of memory feature & charcoal filtration, respectively, have no true advantage over the std 2.4i. Keep the $2800 in your pocket. The T-5's 6-sp manual has no significant quietness advantage over the 5-sp manual.
Ok, so you may not need to push the handling envelope that hard, but the electro-hydraulic steering assist really cuts down the everyday steering feel & ruins the fun. BMW seems to realize the problem. After their Mini Cooper w/ the electric-assisted steering, BMW decided to keep the conventional pure-hydraulic power-steering unit driven by the good o'engine belt on the upcoming compact -- the 1 & 2 series. They're also smart enough to make the i-drive only as an option.
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Now it IS possible that Volvo tried to dampen it too much to give it a plushy "luxo-ride" and it messed up the chassis/suspension balance, but Volvo never really marketed it as a sporty car, but as more of a entry-level luxury car with some sporting intentions. You have to remember, Ford's Premiere Auto Group isn't just some willy-nilly glob of automakers; each one tends toward a specific brand identity. Near as I can figure, this is how they come out:
Ford: Ho-hum rental fleet, Trucks
Mercury: Entry-level quasi-luxury, rental fleet
Lincoln: Limos, Hurses. Luxury cruiser type things (LS not withstanding).
Jaguar: Sport/Luxury (sort of like a British BMW)
Mazda: Sporty vehicles
Volvo: Luxury/Safety
Land Rover: SUVs, African Safari supplier
Aston Martin: Bond-mobiles, missiles optional.
Of course Volvo isn't going to measure up to Jaguar..the Jaguar is a larger, more costly vehicle, and Ford isn't interested in cannibalizing its own sales, now is it?
Also keep in mind that you haven't even gotten to check out the US spec suspensions on the V40 yet...you don't even know if it's going to be the same as Euro spec, tighter, or looser.
These comparison tests are entertaining, as we expect some of the best economy alternatives to compete w/ the Beemer.
The Passat lost miserably in steering, handling & ride.
The Mazda6 is so behind in refinement, including a crashing ride & especially noise isolation.
"Now it IS possible that Volvo tried to dampen it too much to give it a plushy "luxo-ride" and it messed up the chassis/suspension balance, but Volvo never really marketed it as a sporty car, but as more of a entry-level luxury car with some sporting intentions"
The whole point is that you either get the ride or the handling, if not both. Like how the C-class gets the ride comfortably if not the handling/steering of the 3-series.
Sure, I've yet to experience the N.A. S40's. But judging from these preliminary reports, the std 325i sedan can do better than the S40 in BOTH ride & handling composure, plus better steering feel from the conventional power assist. Not that the S40/Focus is bad. It's just why can't the even-better BMW platform be donated(or sold) to a more-economical-car company such as a reliable Japanese like the Focus platform did w/ Mazda? ;-) In the late '90's, Ssanyong of Korea bought the W124 blue print from the '86-95 E-class. I hope the old E36 3-series' formula can be for sale to some reliable Japanese company so we consumers can all benefit?
I'm actually one step ahead of them when comes to the "ride comfort" std, 'cause they're only using the 3-series w/ the lowered sport suspension(std in Euro since '02) for comparison. No wonder Automobile found the Focus SVT steers & rides about at well as the 3-series.
So I have a feeling that if you still want that fun meaty steering by avoiding these newer-designed cars' e.h. assist , then you still have to settle w/ the upcoming '05 Focus ST "SVT sedan" w/ so-so luxury refinement.
In a way, we lucky North Americans are the only consumers to enjoy the old Focus that soldiers on. Now, Euro tuned, w/ ok reliability.
Personally, I'll take the one built in Hiroshima wih Japanese reliability. But I'm mighty glad Ford backed it, and Volvo developed the safety features on the chassis.
However, those who want a plushy ride weren't gonna be happy with the Ford or Mazda versions of this platform. And since I don't see Lincoln doing something with it (Maybe Mercury or Jag, but NOT Lincoln) that leaves Volvo, which needed an S40 replacement anyway.
Come to think of it, Jag might be well-advised to consider something based off of this platform, maybe as the next X-Type or a new model.
So since no one else is now stupid enough to mount the engine north-south ahead of the front axles just to drive the rear wheels on the AWD models easier than transverse mount, Audi decided to replace the cramped-back-seat A4 by continuing w/ that 924 formula -- that's right, a RWD platform. & so will the next Jag X-type. & this is gonna leave the Volvo S40 the only premium Euro Ford w/ transversely-mounted engine. The next S60/80 will not adopt the Ford platform & will even replace the next Mondeo!
The Porsche 924 was designed by VW in the '70's & badged as an Audi in Europe!
When a car is less nose heavy, it can handle better w/o sacrificing comfort. That's why some of these RWD cars are so good at ride/handling compromise.
The CR comparison test also found the 4-cyl Mazda6i w/ 16"s out-handles & out-rides the 6-cyl Mazda6s w/17"s!
creakid1 "Acura TSX vs. Mazda6" Mar 29, 2004 12:02pm
creakid1 "Mazda3" Mar 6, 2004 4:40pm
So, therefore, the 3-series w/ sport suspension is still far from supreme comfort. No wonder the Focus SVT matches.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
You also sound like a good candidate for a trip to the local performance shop. Just get the car you like otherwise, and the right components can give you any level of ride/handling you want, assuming the underlying chassis is a good design.
New shocks/struts/springs (depending on car)can do wonders to fix the ride/handling flaws of an S40, TSX, or BMW for that matter. May not be able to do much about the steering feel, but changing the suspension can probably minimize (or hide) the impact of the e.h. set-up.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Hehe, seriously, the 3 series, while priced higher, is a similar class of car, so a comparison there is inevitable and valid. I dunno where the X-type came from...it's a size bigger.
S40 might end up competing with the upcoming 2 series, or 1 series if BMW brings over a sedan.
If you eyeball the 1 series pics, Volvo has it all over BMW, no comparison, both inside and out.
S40 might also compete with the Saabaru, i.e. Saab 9-2x.
-juice
It just never fails. Anytime any new car comes around, folks have to compare it to the much more expensive BMW. Its just so tiring. To fairly compare, I think we'll have to take the S40 and add thousands in aftermarket upgrades. Its only fair.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
In its price range the 3 series is very small, no way could I cram my family (with luggage) even in the wagon.
A V70 has room to spare. Even a V50 might have more cargo space, if not more passenger space.
-juice
"I think the S60 is a competitor for those."
Rear-leg-room wise, neither the X nor the S60 are really bigger inside than these little guys just like the TSX. They're only superficially half-a-size longer outside.
I find the 325i sedan's rear leg room, when the front seats are tilted high(including the thigh angle), significantly roomier than even the RX-8.
The Canadians get the 2.2 320i to compete w/ the S40 2.4i while the 325i competes w/ the S40 T-5, which has a higher output due to the turbo "but overtaking and using the engine's full performance often feels like too much hard work."(AUTOCAR). So, performance wise, the T-5 hardly has an edge over the 325i.
The TSX is a much-less-expensive car when similarly equipped.
The 325i has std DSC & climate control w/ charcoal-filter/smog-detecting recirculation, so the T-5(charcoal/s-d rec not available in N.A.) w/ DSC is only $1600 less than the std 325i.
The 1 or 2 series doesn't just got no room for adults' legs in the back but also the spare tire as well! & only the coupe will eventually make it to N.A. & w/ only 4-tires(no spare).
What if the S40 w/ sport suspension is already the best tuning setting for this chassis?
Heh heh heh, believe me, you don't want to risk your $ & time experimenting forever. See my past R&D on the Protege platform:
creakid1 "Focus Owners: Future Models" May 7, 2003 3:21pm
If you want go cart like handling and ride be damned, do it. You want to drive your sofa and corner like a 1971 LTD, do it. Volvo has to cover everyones nut with just a (mild) sport package and 17" wheels to do it.
I do agree that you can spend a bundle experimenting, so I would want a tested out package from a reputable source so you know what to expect. But, as you have pointed out, just changing the shocks/struts can make a world of difference.
Anyway, my theory remains that no car (at least that I can afford) is perfect, but there is a lot of pretty damn good out there these days. And an S40 (and TSX, and Mazda 3) are certainly in this category.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
No wonder BMW had to keep that back seat cramped w/ bad seating posture so Mercedes won't try to leap-frog back at BMW.
You cut-n-paste beautifully. What's your point ? Try to show some more intelligence and explain yourself.
This is what is on paper. In the real world, ask anyone who has owned a German car or a mechanic and they will tell you they are nutorios for electrical problems. My friend leased a convertible Mercedes. It has been at the dealer 14 times for electrical problems. He said never again and would buy a Lexus in a heartbeat.
Yes, the Volvo S60 was recommended and I looked at the 2003 last Spring/Summer when Volvo was offering the $5K rebate. I loved the looks both inside and out. However, the turning radius was 40 ft compared to the 3 Series 35 ft. Also, I could not stand the pillow-like headrest. They block your side/back vision.
This is something I would have a hard time getting use to. I realize they are designed to protect against wiplash but what good is it if it will cause you to rely on your side mirrors and possibly hit people.
The last straw was the dealer wouldn't look outside thier lot for the color and options I was looking for. They wanted me to buy a new 2004 off thier lot.
So, this is why I waited a long time for the S40 and am extremely disappointed when I saw the console. It's not about getting with the times. It's about paying 27.1K for a car that you feel looks cheap on the inside.
If the console just had a regular base behind it, buying this car would be a no brainer. This was a risk that Volvo didn't have to take and they will pay for it.
Take it easy. We've got it. You do not like the new console. Just do not try to ram this into our throats :-).
Give some room for other opinions, would ya?
And why do you need to make everyone dislike it?
Get a BMW, it's a great car, but it's a bit presumptuous for me. Volvo, i think fits a niche for the people who wants to drive something a bit out of ordinary, but with a style, safety and very decent handling, and not been perceived as "snobby". The BMW creates the definite " I am an ambitious driver" image.
From what I understand, that console was designed hat way intentionally, to provide storage space behind it. Though it probably would have looked better if it were ENCLOSED storage, it's intended to be open back there.