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Honda Odyssey Future Models

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    ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Does anybody know the prices of the "low end" models?

    My current Accord has melted M&M's and spilled pop/juice on the seats. The floor has matching decor with old fries, the odd sock and crusty hamburger buns...I can't see paying 38K+ for a mini-van, but mid to low 20's seems ok.

    Too bad there isn't a DX model. I can slide my own doors and roll up my own windows. If my wife didn't insist, I'd even consider not getting the ABS and air bags etc.

    Priorities:
    Safety (I know the ABS propaganda)
    Price
    Reliability
    the rest is just "fluff"
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    mndavemndave Member Posts: 7
    I bought my Blizzaks from tire rack as well. I ordered them pre-mounted on steel rims so all I have to do is swap out the wheels. To give everybody an idea of the $$$ we are talking about I just priced Blizzaks on steel rims for an 2004 Ody. $588 from tirerack.com. When you think about the price also consider that you will be extending the calender life of your "all season" tires since you won't be putting a many miles on them.

    As for sour grapes, perhaps for some but not certainly not for me. I wouldn't buy it if they had it. The only reason I would consider AWD on a Sienna is because it includes other things I would want, such as rear disk brakes, VSC, and side curtain airbags. These are optional on the FWD, but we all know about Siennas and option packages.

    The most glaringly problematic things for me are what a lot of others see:

    no way to get 8 seats and a power liftgate. I have a Red Touring with DVD/NAVI being built for me week after next, but I may have to pass in favor of the EX-L because I do want that 8th seat. (note that the reviews are comflicting at to its value - one said store it in the garage, another said comfortable even for an adult).
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    nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    This is just fascinating to me. I understand how Bose noise cancelling head phones work - destructive interference of sound waves. But in a car there are so many variables.

    Does Hondas ANC work if the sound system is turned off?

    Does it used the same set of speakers as the rest of the audio system?

    If speakers are shared, how does it work if you are playing something else through the audio system? i.e. if you crank the sound system, is the anti-noise also "cranked"?

    This is a feature that just seems awesome if it really works.
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    amc731amc731 Member Posts: 42
    I'm suffering with the ex-l vs. Touring dilemma myself. My white Touring with res & navi should be one of the first ones into the dealership. How am I going to pass it up once I see it? I REALLY wanted the power liftgate, but I'm not sold on the PAX tires. I don't NEED the 8th seat, but there have been plenty of times it would have come in handy (we have three kids, our best friends have 4). Bottom line, I just don't know if I can suck up around $37,500....I'm trying to convince myself that I can live contentedly for the next 5 to 7 years with the EX-L with RES/Navi. I wonder how much that combo would actually save me???
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    fbearfbear Member Posts: 117
    nowakj66- below is a quote from Honda about ANC which may partially answer your question. I would think that it would have to work even when you are listening to something through the sound system but how?...perhaps it could add the anti-noise to whatever else is coming through or perhaps it borrows a couple of the speakers.

    Anyway, here is the quote (and notice Honda's sense of humor in the last sentence.

    "The ANC system uses a microphone at the front of the vehicle interior to create "anti-noise" through the audio system speakers.

    More specifically, the audio system analyzes the sound waves entering the cabin, and then instantaneously creates an opposite sound wave (anti-noise) to cancel the unwanted noise."...

    "The system will not counteract voices inside the cabin whether desired or not."
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    ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    With the Touring model, you will be driving without a spare if you replace the PAX tires with a set of four snow tires and rims.

    Also, the VSA (stability control) system is much better than traction control or AWD at controlling skids in snow. VSA works when braking and steering; AWD doesn't. Both Mercedes and Toyota have said that stability control systems are the most important drivetrain innovation for controlling a vehicle and avoiding accidents - more important than AWD. VSA should also be better than traction control at accelerating on wet or snowy roads.
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    acenjacenj Member Posts: 58
    i'm a fairly good driver and have driven numerous cars w/ trac control as well as 4 wheel drive cars and suv's. problem I have with most trac control systems is you can't get up inclines with them as easy as you can w/ AWD.
    just my 2 cents. I swore i'd never pay for trac control again after the last exp. w/ mercedese.

    Ace
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    ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    What is in the spare tire compartment on the Touring model? Is this where the subwoofer is, or is it available to put a spare in?

    If you can put a spare in the Touring model, then you can have the best of both worlds. If you are going somewhere and don't have time to take the van in for service, or if you want to just drop the wheel off and continue to drive while it is being repaired, then you could put the spare on. Or you could go to the dealer and get a new wheel and tire installed while you wait. Of course, you would also have to get a jack to use the spare, but you may be able to buy a spare and jack as parts from Honda.
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    ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    AWD and VSA overlap in what they do, but their primary functions are different. AWD is better at accelerating, which includes going up inclines. VSA is better at maintaining control when braking or steering, and will help with maintaining traction.

    Having both is best, but if I have to choose between them, VSA is the clear winner. AWD will help you not get stuck. VSA will save your life and the lives of those in the vehicle. The studies that have been done show this, and that is why so many car makers are rushing to put stability control on their vehicles, especially in Europe, and why our federal government is considering making it mandatory on at least all SUV's.
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    heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    My Sienna AWD came with a jack and a lug wrench, even though there is no spare. Go figure. I assume Honda will do the same with Odys that are equipped with PAX.
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    beemer4mebeemer4me Member Posts: 42
    ???? I don't know how it got posted 2x, as I certainly did not intend to repost. Also, I really meant to say that ANC and not VCM was a band-aid for lazy engineering. I managed to delete the second post btw...
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    fbearfbear Member Posts: 117
    2nd post happens when you refresh and your original post is somehow still in the buffer or something- if you get a message about the system needing to send info again to complete your refresh, you are about to double post.

    but to your point, I think ANC is made necessary by VCM- VCM is putting 3 cylinders in charge of pushing a 2+ ton vehicle down the road and even when coasting on the freeway those 3 cylinders must scream pretty loudly to get the job done. So VCM saves on gas but creates more noise. ANC defeats the extra noise so you get the gas savings without the noise. Do any Lexus or Toyotas have VCM?

    As an added benefit, the ANC will also help defeat other steady road noise which enters the cabin.

    It will be interesting to see just how successful this is when C&D does its official tests and also when we get to let our own ears check it out.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    These would never sell. As it is, LX's are very slow sellers compared to the others.
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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,557
    the engine will be turning the same RPMs with just 3 cylinders activated, so it won't be screaming down the road. The drivetrain will rotate the same as normal, only the 3 valves won't open, so no gas will be used.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    gjay1170gjay1170 Member Posts: 67
    If you don't know it already, the EX-L with have the 6 CD-changer if you ordered an NAV/RES. I thought only touring with nav has it. I emailed collegehills with the question and they answered promptly.
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    khanhkhanh Member Posts: 4
    The Honda will come with a spare tire even with the PAX system installed.

    Khanh
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    fbearfbear Member Posts: 117
    stickguy,
    Do you know why there will be added noise (that needs to be canceled) when it goes to 3 cylinders?
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    dannodanno Member Posts: 114
    AN issue may arise with the low air pressure sensors that come with PAX. The computer in the car will be trying to communicate with the wheel air pressure sensors and when it does not find the sensors, the computer will give you an error message. I don't know if it can be turned off, or how instrusive the error message will be in case of aftermarket wheels being installed. Maybe extra sensors can be purchased for the steel wheels?
    I hope Honda has planned for this scenario.
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    rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I don't think the low pressure system actually measures the air pressure in each tire via remote sensors. Using the ABS sensors it can monitor wheel rotational speeds. A tire with low air pressure will turn SLIGHTLY faster in relation to the other tires. Ergo, that tire is low on pressure (at least, relative to the other tires). A similar system is used on the Sienna.
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    rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    From what I understand, ALL EX-L models have the 6-CD changer as standard equipment.
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    gjay1170gjay1170 Member Posts: 67
    Only if you have Navigation, right? I saw a video with the navigation screen pops down, and it shows 6 cd changer. It's so cool. If I didn't get the nav, where would the 6 cd changer be on the EX-L?
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    player4player4 Member Posts: 362
    2005HondaOdyssey.com just relesed some pictures that they where holding because of the embargo, heres the link: http://2005hondaodyssey.com/new_photos.htm , also i found this picture at TOV when you click on it it will say forbidden just copy and paste the link or you can click "Go" heres the link: http://sohc.vtec.net/article_files/261903/05ody_tov-002.jpg
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    amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    are we going to stuck in this sound and air tight enclosed cabin of boomm... banggg...boommm... explosion noice of the VCM? that will be really funny in such a luxury van:-)))
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check out the survey at the end, a whopping 46% of readers chose VCM as the biggest improvement.

    Kewl.

    -juice
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    onehondaguyonehondaguy Member Posts: 2
    8 Passenger Seating in the EX and EX-L available...but not in the Touring. THe DVD Screen is 9 inches...pretty big!
    The Navigation system will allow for voice recognition that will accept Full Street Addresses...cool.
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    dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    4 snow tires on a vehicle do more to help winter driving than AWD and all weather tires. Certainly AWD and snows is better still.

    I test drove an Outback in a snow storm after driving there in my Integra with 4 Blizzaks. They both accelerated about the same, but the Outback could not turn or stop nearly as well.

    Do not put snow tires only on the front wheels of a vehicle. When you hit the brakes you will quickly find that the front stops and the rear does not - you will quickly find yourself facing the wrong direction. Been there done that.

    Where I live the roads close well before I have any trouble getting around with snows and FWD. Once got stuck in a blizzard and had to drive 100 miles through 5-10 inches of fresh unplowed snow (everything is far away in South Dakota). Harrowing and slow going, but doable. And yes my bumper was acting like a plow.
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    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think that the VCM is the biggest improvement to the Odyssey also.
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    dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    VCM may be a big improvement, but how many Odysseys will have it? Not everybody wants the EXL with a sunroof just to get VCM.
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I somehow disagree that low end models won’t sell. Honda needs to at least give it a try, not much, just the basic stuff coupled with safety features and call it Odyssey DX.

    It may not sell at same levels as upper level trims, but giving a choice at lower price level isn't a bad idea. Heck, just drop in a detuned version of Accord V6 in there if that can help trim down a few hundred dollars.
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Three of six-cylinder firing (the pistons within the non-firing cylinders will still move, but will not have combustion to go with it) will create an imbalance (the NVH factor will creep in, and ANC is supposed to take care of the “N” aspect of it by introducing an out of phase sound wave that would otherwise be balanced if all six cylinders were firing).

    Here is a video to illustrate functioning of the VCM introduced in Japanese market Inspire about a year ago. Inspire is basically American Accord with cosmetic changes on the outside with “TSX-like” interior, and powered by 3.0-liter V6 w/VCM (the engine expected to be here in Accord Hybrid).

    Video – VCM
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Not surprised. I voted for it as well. VCM is a nice addition not only to Odyssey, but worthy of a place especially in this segment of vehicles and light trucks.
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    6-disc CD changer is standard in EX, EX-L and Touring. Navigation System includes XM Radio, Voice Recognition and Rear View Camera. So, to answer your question, if you get EX-L without NAV, you will have the CD Changer (not sure if XM Radio is still an accessory, which it is in EX model).

    The Official Feature Matrix Is Here
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I assume you don’t know much about ANC. Here is how "Bose" explains it.

    VCM is independent of ANC. VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) is another implementation of the grand old design that VTEC is. In a way, the concept behind VCM is a part of almost every 4-valve/cylinder VTEC engine. The difference here is that all valves are closed for half of the cylinders instead of half of the valves in all cylinders. At low enging speeds, almost all VTEC engines are designed to operate in 2-valve/cylinder mode and ultimately switch to 4-valve/cylinder mode at higher rpm.

    Not exactly dubbed VCM, but Civic Hybrid gets its own variation, and has had it for two years in the market now. The HCH version of the VCM triggers only during deceleration (when it shuts down three of four cylinders).
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I think it will slowly creep into the lesser trim. A start is good enough. Within couple of years, we may see VCM implemented in Accord, Pilot, MDX, TL and RL as well.
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    amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    what I'm questioning is what if the ANC fail? which is supposed to cancel the noise of the VCM.
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    gjay1170gjay1170 Member Posts: 67
    Really, EX-L Nav gets back up camera? That's great! I sure need that. No sensors though. I saw the options on college hill, and I can put them in for under $600. The EX-L is XM ready, but not installed. I have to pay extra. I can get one for about $200. My husband put one in his 02 Acura TL-S last year. The sensors would be great since it's really hard to park a minivan. You can't tell how close you are bumper to bumper, unless you go outside and look at it. I'm still getting used to it for the last 3 years.
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    VCM engagement would transform a V6 engine to an Inline-3 engine with just three combustion cycles (instead of six) every two-revolutions of the crank. It shouldn’t feel much different from a typical inline-3 engine (Insight has one). And that certainly won’t involve a boom-boom.

    ANC is a simple and proven technology, available at a Best Buy in your neighborhood. It involves a microphone to receive “noise” and create an out of phase “noise”. This is basic wave re-engineering. Read the link (Bose) that I provided earlier, if you have not already.
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    robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I would think that back up sensors (for sound) would be redundant feature with rear view camera. And "seeing" should make parking easier than "listening".
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    heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I wish you were right, but as 'The Democratization of Luxury' continues in America, fewer and fewer people seem to be willing to settle for anything less than top-of-the-line. 'Gourmet' ice cream stores are crowded with people who used to go to Dairy Queen, and a Viking range has become a ubiquitous element of every kitchen remodel. Minivans are no different. After all, this is not a limited production, European sports car with a six-figure MSRP. The most expensive '05 Odyssey, even loaded with tons of dealer garbage, will be less than $40K. Not that this is an insignificant amount of money, but it IS within reach of a huge market segment. And they can smile and be the envy of the cul-de-sac, knowing they have 'the best.'

    Also reminds me of an editorial I read in 'Autoweek' entitled, "When Everybody Drives a Luxury Car, Will Anybody Notice?"
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    amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    Those were what I played with when I was 7.
    But don't you agree that all machine/circuit eventually fail, even as simple as a hammer. My question is what will happen IF the ANC fail? You just can't rule out this possibility, even it has less than 0.1% chance. Can you imagin you're in that situation?
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    amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    If it's that simple, they won't bother to add ANC:-)
    On top of that, all circuit will delay action no matter how instantaneous it is. A circuit just can't predict an action, it has to follow an action.
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    jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think they could upgrade the LX a little (include one power door) to give room for a DX version with the Accord's V6's engine, no power doors and a cassette player. Sure, it'll sell in lesser numbers, but with the LX starting to go upmarket, you can't ignore the fact that there's room for a DX as the value leader, much like the Sienna CE. How many Sienna CE's do you see out there? How many XLE's do you see out there?
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    nornenorne Member Posts: 136
    Best selling model on sienna is CE and Le and not the top of the line xle limited. Majority of odyssey sales will be ex and lx and not the touring model. Majority of americans buy minivan because its the value leader to haul people and cargo around and not because they want to show off some luxury vehicle.
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    amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    If it's that simple, they won't bother to add ANC:-)
    On top of that, all circuit will delay action no matter how instantaneous it is. A circuit just can't predict an action, it has to follow an action.
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    heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    Well, I'd argue the best-selling Siennas (at least in my area) are LE's and XLE's. And I see more Ltd's than I do CE's. IMO, LE is a better value than CE, and most buyers do the math, and come to the same conclusion.

    CE model is for people like my brother's father-in-law. He ordered a stripper Chevy Malibu with a manual transmission back in the early 80's. Waited three months for it. There will always be buyers out there who throw around nickels like they're manhole covers.
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    cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    > I don't think the low pressure system actually measures the air pressure in each tire via remote sensors. Using the ABS sensors it can monitor wheel rotational speeds. A tire with low air pressure will turn SLIGHTLY faster in relation to the other tires. Ergo, that tire is low on pressure (at least, relative to the other tires). A similar system is used on the Sienna.<

    You may read tirerack.com if you're interested in the TPMS.

    Basically, new Odysseys use air pressure sensors inside tires and wrapped around the wheels. This is the more accurate ways among all. The data is transmitted to a wireless receiver near by the tires and connected to the computer/display. Computer can be reset to allow tire rotation, etc.

    Early methods of TPMS includes measuring tire diameter change. This is the low-cost approach since the sensor is shared with ABS/VSA. However, this method tends to create false alarm. It needs constant reseting and calibration. If not, it would not detect slow leak or it would generate false alarms. Either is not good.
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    cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    > If it's that simple, they won't bother to add ANC:-)
    On top of that, all circuit will delay action no matter how instantaneous it is. A circuit just can't predict an action, it has to follow an action. <

    In my opinion, if the ANC should fail, the biggest issue is the vibration and noises created from it. Vibration can be isolated with sophisticated engine mounts. Vibration noises have to be dampen by ANC. When it fails, you just feel the engine is more noisy than usual. Probably the same level as an OLD inline-4 engine without balance shafts.

    ANC is based on electronics feedback loop. It acts very quickly. You can buy an ANC headphone for $60 and see how well/fact it works. It is said to reduce 10db of noise.
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    hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Will become manditory soon. It was available on the high end DC vans since 2001
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    amykkbcamykkbc Member Posts: 57
    what I'm questioning is what if the ANC fail? which is supposed to cancel the noise of the VCM.
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    edkleinedklein Member Posts: 34
    Back to these run flats - What's their expected tread life? I get about 50,000 miles out of a set of Michelin MXV4's on my 96 Accord, so I can justify $120 tire for that kind of return.

    I've heard reports of the Sienna AWD runflats running out of tread in as little as 20,000 miles, barely a year's worth of driving. The hassle of a new set of tires every year alone would be enough to hack me off, much less if they cost $150+ each.
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