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Chevrolet Aveo Sedan

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Comments

  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Unless they recently changed the engine it has always been a Daewoo engine just like my 1988 Pontiac Lemans (Daewoo).
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The factory service manual that I bought from Helm when I bought the car had a page with several different engines listed (single OHV, dual OHV as well as different sizes), and the code next to the engine in my 05 translated to a Holden manufactured engine. It possible that I could have mis-read it, but I don't think so, as the 05 Aveo also uses the same oil filter as my 02 Chevy S-10 pickup. I would go back and check the manual again, but I let it go with the car...However, I'll try to verify...if I'm wrong, shame on me!!!

    Either way, that particular engine is not a technological wonder. Still, I have rented cars in my younger days, and lets just say I probably drove them a bit differently that if I had owned them. So, I would be a bit hesitant to translate a mechanical failure in a single rental as the sole determining factor in selecting a car to purchase...as I am sure we would all be hesitant to do...

    The link...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Aveo#Engines

    has info on the Aveo, but isn't clear exactly who makes the engine.

    The info below was found on Wikipedia, but also ins't clear as to where the engine is made, but it does imply Daewoo manufacture...

    D-TEC
    D-TEC was an older variant of Family 1 SOHC engine licensed by Daewoo Motors for their range of Opel-derived cars such as Daewoo Espero and Daewoo Nexia. These engines are built exclusively at Bupyeong engine plant. They feature valvetrain driven by toothed belt, in a DOHC configuration for most versions, and aluminum cylinder head.

    1.3 L SOHC - Daewoo Lanos
    1.5 L SOHC - Daewoo Lanos, Daewoo Nexia
    1.6 L SOHC - Daewoo Nexia
    1.6 L DOHC - Daewoo Nexia, Daewoo Espero, Daewoo Lanos

    [edit] E-TEC II
    Updated version of D-TEC. Most models feature Euro III-compliancy, and 1.4 L and 1.6 L DOHC versions employ variable intake geometry.

    1.4 L SOHC - European Chevrolet Kalos/Chevrolet Aveo
    1.5 L SOHC, Euro II - Asian, Middle Eastern and South African versions Chevrolet Lacetti, Chevrolet Nubira and Chevrolet Aveo, CKD kits of Aveo assembled by ZAZ
    1.4 L DOHC - European Chevrolet Kalos/Chevrolet Aveo, Chevrolet Lacetti and Chevrolet Nubira
    1.6 L - L91/LXT, 103 hp (77 kW) and 107 ft·lbf (145 N·m) of torque, U.S. version of Chevrolet Aveo; European Chevrolet Lacetti and Chevrolet Nubira
    Higher-displacement versions of D-TEC and E-TEC II are indeed Family II engines built by Holden.

    D-TEC/E-TEC II
    Holden makes various Family II engines for GM India and GM Daewoo at its Melbourne plant. Variations include displacements from 1.6 L. to 2.4 L. Unlike the Ecotec engines, the block is made of iron.

    [edit] L34
    This is the 2.0L (1998cc) variant of the engines, featuring 86 mm bore and 86 mm stroke. Power is 119 hp (89 kW) @ 5400 rpm and torque is 126 ft·lbf (171 N·m).

    The engine has been used on following vehicles:

    Chevrolet Optra
    Chevrolet Evanda
    Suzuki Reno
    Suzuki Forenza

    [edit] Other models
    1.6 L - Daewoo Kalos, Daewoo Gentra, Chevrolet Aveo
    1.8 L - Chevrolet Lacetti, Chevrolet Nubira, Chevrolet Rezzo
    C24SE, *2.4 L SOHC - Isuzu Rodeo
    2.4 L DOHC - Chevrolet Captiva, Opel Antara

    So, beats me who makes them!
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I had no idea the engine was that closely related to the Ecotec, a mill that gets slammed regularly for roughness but that I've enjoyed, at least in a rental car. Funny how the Aveo gets the same or less mileage as an Ecotec in a Cobalt considering the similar design. It does look like it's probably made in Melbourne.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Melbourne made or Korean made, the engine appears to definitely be a GM design, licensed in earlier years to Daewoo.
  • lostwrenchlostwrench Member Posts: 288
    I, too, was surprised at how close the mpg ratings are between the Aveo and Cobalt.
    Aveo - 1.6L - 24/34
    Cobalt - 2.2L - 24/33
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Because of its higher output of the Cobalt Ecotec's, if this engine was put in an Aveo it would likely get even better mileage in such a light car. Less effort to accelerate and cruise generally means better mileage.
  • gene_fitzgene_fitz Member Posts: 9
    I do agree, I know how I am with rentals. I drive the hell out of them, literally. Most likely the case is that the idiot who rented it before you didn't like that it wasn't as powerful as the Mustang Convertible he or she couldn't afford to rent and kept it to the floor most of the time..
  • richard1hainesrichard1haines Member Posts: 41
    Interesting that you say there's a service bulletin advising of misfire for aveo 2007? I do not know if it and i have a 2007 aveo sedan. bad gas likely caused the misfire and it's a shame you are blaming GM for it. What type of gas did you put in the car? is it certified gas for use? In Canada gas has to bear a seal on it to be used on most cars and qualify for warranty repairs. If you put cheap gas in, it could void your warranty policy and any claims. Also you should be replacing your spark plugs every 50,000km if not sooner. So at 41,000 miles your plugs certainly need checking if not replacing regardless of them being platinum or not. Really people need to look after their cars. I see people who never change the oil etc. It's disgusting.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Also you should be replacing your spark plugs every 50,000km if not sooner. So at 41,000 miles your plugs certainly need checking if not replacing regardless of them being platinum or not

    The service manual states the period is 60K KM for plug replacement (Volume 1, page 0-21).
  • jmysteryjmystery Member Posts: 3
    I just got rid of my aveo, it was an 06 and I bought it new. I have had nothing but problems with it. I was warned that it was a POS. It has been in the shop for front end noise 4 times, I complained to GM and they could not fix it so gave me a 5 year 100k mile extend on the front end and the air condtioning. The air keeps giving off a wet sock smell when you use it. They kept dumping cleaning solution down the drain of the condencer pan and it would smell like cleaning solution and bubble gum for a week then dirty socks again. The noise in the front end is a squeek when you go over a bump at slow speed. Then just after war. ran out the key celinoid would not disengage and let the key out, also the celinoid that disengaged the block in the shifter lever did not work at the same time. I found several threads on line that seems to indicate that this is not a rare problem. I took the consoul apart and found that if I jumped the wires leading to the switch in the shifer it would relese the key pin, then I took a zip tie and tied back the block on the shifter lever. I then took the POS to the Toyota dealer and took it up the tail pipe and got 5500 trade in.
    I bought a 09 Corolla. The car is much tighter than the aveo and much less road noise. I would not recomend this daewoo to any one. The MPG was good but after buying a GPS system the speedo. was off by 5 MPH, this would show much better MPG than it was really getting.
    I just got back from Myrtle Beach, it got 39 mpg there and back, not to bad but it was more like 36 mpg.
    This car is cheap but when you factor in all the problems and how cheap it really is I would recomend a Toyota over theis POS any day of the week and twice on sunday.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I had an 05 hatchback LT. I also experienced the suspension noise/squeaks and the speedo discrepancy (mine was off approx. 5 mph when displaying 60 mph). However, I did not have the A/C odor issue...but the body began slowly dis-assembling itself after 20K miles. I sold it atr 34K miles.
  • jmysteryjmystery Member Posts: 3
    I guess that I should have paid the extra in the beginning. I looked at a new Toyota Corolla in 06.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My daughter has an 04 Corolla LE and absolutely loves it...No problems at all. But, she could be one of the lucky ones...you never know...
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I see, GM is responsible to fix your squeeks and rattles? You bought a cheap econo car and you got what you paid for.

    The Corolla is a more up level car and is larger in size so you are not comparing apples to apples. Why didn't you get the sub-compact Yaris? Why did you decide not to support American companies and decide to jump on the Japanese bandwagon so quickly? If this happens to your Toyota are you going to come back to an American brand? You will probably find it exceptible then, right?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Just for the record, all Aveo's are completely made in Korea, and many of the Corollas are made domestically in the USA. So, the US worker benefits more from the Corolla than the Aveo.

    Also, I would think that any manufacturer should be responsible for correcting squeaks and rattles on any of their cars, while still in the warranty period...period...regardless of what price was charged.

    If you buy a 15 inch TV, shouldn't it receive the same channels as a 50 inch flatscreen?
  • jmysteryjmystery Member Posts: 3
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    Love my Aveo have had it for 4 yrs. and it has been great and no problems.....50,000 miles on it now.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I wasn't talking about supporting an American worker, I was talking about supporting an American company. Most people know the Aveo is not made in America just like Toyota's Lexus and Scian are shipped over from Japan. It is important nowadays for people to make a stand with American companies instead of making other countries rich.

    Is the Corolla made in America or Mexico? To me it doesn't matter to much because I am sure its domestic content is lower than the Chevy Cobalt which is at 80%. Toyota as a whole is less than 60% overall domestic content. Those American made Toyota's with largely imported parts take away from American companies who because of unions don't have the advantage of all the outsourcing that Toyota gets, not to mention the part-time workers with no benefits that Toyota largely employs and the way that they avoid states with unions.

    With the quality of cars on the market the last 10-years, there is so little difference in quality from brand to brand with its biggest obstacle for people to overcome is perception. No company has the best vehicle in every segment but overall there is really no bad car.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Chevy Cobalt which is at 80%

    That's 80% North American Content, not necessarily USA content...it includes Canada and Mexico.

    In my opinion, I support companies that give American workers jobs. I live very close to Spartanburg, SC where BMW 's assembly plant is located. I can speak from personal experience just how much influence this company has had in my area, bringing in good paying jobs when other "American" companies in the same area were moving production to Mexico, China, Viet Nam, etc.

    Immediately down the road from BMW, Lear has a plant manufacturing seats for BMW...more well paying jobs. And, there are hundreds of other companies located here to service BMW as well. They located here at the same time the Textile companies...those USA companies...couldn't move overseas fast enough.

    Honda has created tons of jobs in Ohio, Nissan in Mississippi, Hyunda in Alabama, etc.

    All at the same time GM was exporting jobs.

    So, in my opinion, I could care less about buying a GM product so that Bob Lutz can get a few extra pennies in his bonus check.

    Go to your local Checy dealer and check out the window stickers to see the "North American" content on all their vehicles. Cleverly, they don't show just the USA content, so many folks think its USA content alone. You will find many models at 50% or less.

    I will give GM credit on the Malibu, as it is something like 95% North American content.

    However, every vehicle sold here is supported by a dealer network of local workers, regardless of manufacturer, so buying "American" makes little difference there.

    Now, I'm not attempting to persuade you to buy anything other than what you wish to purchase. If you feel strongly about buying from an American based company, then by all means, please do so. As for me, I plan to support the companies making an effort to give American workers jobs, so we can continue to have a middle class in this country.

    There is no "right or wrong" answer here...just personal preferences...
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    You are never going to win an educated argument with me regarding how these foreign companies have killed the American economy. There is no North American content on the Monroney sticker unless that recently changed it. It has always been callled domestic content and yes the Cobalt is 80% domestic content like it or not. Toyota as I mentioned has a low domestic content of about 50%, that's a fact not a wish. According to you Toyota is also not showing their domestic content either by as you say "Cleverly, they don't show just the USA content, so many folks think its USA content alone." Toyota's domestic content is no different then Fords in how they advertise it. By law no one can conveniently alter a Monroney for self serving reasons. Domestic means it comes from the U.S. and Canada. Canada has been historically considered domestic content for over 60-years and we trade with them on a daily basis with over one billion dollars of goods.

    To your other comment "You will find many models at 50% or less." Ok, what Chevy models are you talking about, please name them. Here is another area you need to research because the only one with a small domestic content is the Aveo at 8% which most people recognize as foreign just like the previous Geo division. All other vehicles are around 75% or higher.

    You think by having a BMW or Nissan plant down the road is good for the economy? Well how do you think those jobs came to be? You said that GM is leaving this country to build elsewhere namely Mexico. Have you figured out why? Do you know that they are forced to do that to stay in business because of these Japanese companies using their artificially valued Yen have come here on the cheap and also brought with them outside suppliers that changed the way American companies do business. Have you heard that most all of the 100-2500 small employee companies mainly in Detroit have went out of business because they aren't price competitive. American companies were forced to use outsourced suppliers to stay in business because thats what Nissan, Toyota, etc., are doing. Have you ever thought about why an auto plant closes other than a model isn't popular. Do you think a new Japanese auto plant is a fair trade in American economics? Not even close. Toyota is famous for hiring part-time workers at low wages and no benefits and chose poverished areas to build plants. They are well known to avoid states with UAW's. When an American auto company tries to outsource more parts UAW goes on strikes. Have you heard of the recent American Axle strike? UAW also prevents further consolidation of auto plants and employees. Toyota doesn't have $3000-4000 per car taken off right off the top to pay for employee benefits.

    So what I am saying is that this is not good for our country. Have you thought of where that profit goes that Toyota makes? It goes back to Japan to their banking institutions. Our banks would love that money to stay healthy but that's not the case. An investiment in an auto plant with a couple billion dollars is nothing but a short-term investment and is basically a way to take big money from our economy with a few workers who benefited. It's not apple to apples im afraid.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    You are never going to win an educated argument with me regarding how these foreign companies have killed the American economy

    Well, you're right about that, because your mind is already made up. I learned a long time ago to never argue with someone who has already decided on what to believe. If anyone killed the American economy, it was American companies...not foreign companies. Of course, the UAW helped by demanding unrealistic wages and benefits as well.

    As for the content in Chevrolets, I doubt you would take my word for it, so I invite you and anyone else reading this to drop by your local dealer and check out the domestic content percentages on the window stickers on the different models. I have done exactly that, but again, do it yourself...you wouldn't believe whatever I typed here anyway. You will have no problem finding several models below your stated 75%, and the sticker does indeed state "North American" content....

    Go ahead and buy whatever you like...its a free country.

    However, I have seen first hand what companies like BMW and Michelin have done for the area where I live...Clean, pollution free plants paying good wages. I have also seen what those "American" companies that you champion have done here as well...Superfund cleanup sites, brown lung, low wages when they were here and all that goes along with it.

    Keep on believeing that what's good for GM is good for the US economy. While you're at it, you can also tell us all about another paragon of US industry, Chrysler ,and how buying a Chrysler is good for the USA...Bob Nardelli, the much-loved ex-CEO of Home Depot and the private capital group have the US worker and customer's best interest at heart...yeah, right....
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Just got back in from dinner. While we were out, we stopped in a GM dealership along the way. It was getting dark, so I only had a few minutes to look around. You know, us old folks don't see so well after dark...

    First, Poncho said the window stickers show "domestic content", and I said they show "North American Content." At this dealership, the window stickers showed "US/Canadian Content", so either we were both wrong or there is some leeway in how these things are printed I was out of town when I visited the dealership showing "North American Content", so I can't easily verify that I was correct. In any case, I will concede the point.

    To your other comment "You will find many models at 50% or less." Ok, what Chevy models are you talking about, please name them. Here is another area you need to research because the only one with a small domestic content is the Aveo at 8% which most people recognize as foreign just like the previous Geo division. All other vehicles are around 75% or higher.

    Now, for some example vehicles...

    Chevy HHR-LT
    VIN 3GNCA23DX85681736
    40% US/CAN

    Chevy Equinox FWD-LS
    VIN 2CNDL23F186284158
    55% US/CAN

    Pontiac Torrent
    VIN 2CKDL33F286061730
    55% US/CAN

    Pontiac Vibe 2.4L
    VIN 5Y2SP670X92420614
    61% US/CAN

    Poncho was correct on the Cobolt...80% US/CAN.

    One last comment...

    Poncho said..An investiment in an auto plant with a couple billion dollars is nothing but a short-term investment and is basically a way to take big money from our economy with a few workers who benefited

    Well, exactly how many billions of dollars would it take for you to consider it a permanent investment? Do you realize how many vehicles it takes to recoup that kind of investment?

    Again, I use the BMW example, because that is the one I am the most familiar discussing. They are investing additional hundreds of millions of dollars to increase production at this plant, and moving more product lines here for production. Come take a look and tell me or anyone else that its a "temporary" investment. I'm sorry, but my experience in the business world and with capital investment strategy simply doesn't allow me to view investment like that as "temporary" or inconsequential.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "Ok, what Chevy models are you talking about, please name them. Here is another area you need to research because the only one with a small domestic content is the Aveo at 8% which most people recognize as foreign just like the previous Geo division. All other vehicles are around 75% or higher."

    I said Chevy models. I knew the HHR was less than 50% but I didn't post it initially but I knew you would bring it up because its made in Mexico, and the Equinox is more the same. Where are these many cars that you talked about? They don't exist. You would have been better off with that statement should you have been talking about Chrysler, but GM is as American as it gets.

    The Pontiac Torrent is an Equinox with different front and rear styling. The Pontiac Vibe is a shared platform with the Toyota Matrix. Most people know that its mostly Toyota.

    As far as building in America goes these are temporary small investments that will rake in billions of dollars back to their country to their banking structures. How long does it take to make billions, not much when you sell a few hundred thousand vehicles. BMW is also taking advantage of the Euro vs. dollar and doing more of the same. This is one of the reasons why this country is losing money and has such a big trade deficette. When the money doesn't stay it hurts our economy. Our banks need that big money to survive and offer services to our citizens at reasonable rates/interest.

    Are you aware that even if Ford or GM wanted to start building auto plants in Japan we couldn't. There are laws in place that prevent foreign companies from coming into Japan and taking a piece of the pie (economy).

    China and India are making multi-billion dollar buyouts of banking institutions here and its worrying many economists with some wanting regulations to be put in place before its too late. What does that mean I can't really say, but I thought the same way when I heard about it and then the uproar after that by people who follow economic and financial transactions for a living. This is not good for America.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Its obvious that you are carrying the torch for GM. And, thats OK with me...its your preference, and I'm fine with it. In fact, up until a few years ago, I was right there with you. GM has burned me one too many times for me to stick with them.

    As for finance, based upon the comments in your earlier postings above, I suspect that you have little to no background in that area. If I am wrong in that assumption, please state your credentials. As the sub-prime lending fiasco has proved, there has been anything but a shortage of money to lend in this country. This fact is also supported by record low interest rates. There is no cash shortage in the banking industry today. Oh, just in case you want to use Bear Stearns as an example, that is/was an investment group (not a bank), not subject to the banking rules and regulations, which made some bad investment decisions and that is why it no longer exist as a going concern.

    You stated...

    Are you aware that even if Ford or GM wanted to start building auto plants in Japan we couldn't. There are laws in place that prevent foreign companies from coming into Japan and taking a piece of the pie (economy).


    Please elaborate...point out where I can read these restrictions.

    Now, correct me if I am wrong, but all the cars I listed above are GM vehicles, carrying the Chevrolet or Pontiac nameplate. The window sticker says Chevrolet Equinox or Chevrolet HHR. You purchase them at a Chevrolet dealer, and have warranty/service work performed there as well. They ARE Chevrolet vehicles, plain and simple. Just because I was able to substantiate my claim doesn't give you the right to distort the truth or change the conditions of the question that you posed.

    Like Senator Patrick Moynahan famously said once, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts."

    I do, however, agree with your point...GM is as American as it gets, and its getting less and less American each year...the car examples above prove it. Now, you can like it or not, but its a FACT!

    Do I think moving production out of the US is good? Of course not. I would love to see it stay here. I do have my doubts, though...

    Why? Well, the 1950/60's are gone, and gone for good.The US manufacturing industry enjoyed a 40 year period using the windfall of WW II, which destroyed most of Europe's and Japan's production capabilities. When competition finally came knocking at the auto manufacturer's door, it was ignored. GM, Ford and Chrysler happily let the Japanese and European car makers in, because they were selling small, cheap cars...and, as Henry Ford II said, "Small cars mean small profits."

    Problem was, the competition had no intention of staying with cheap small cars. Satisfied with the idea that they knew everything that was necessary to succeed in the car business, the US car makers continued to ignore the competition until it was too late. And, all the while, the UAW was in the same boat, refusing to acknowledge the world around them was changing. No one was willing to stand up and be the "adult".

    The perfect recipe for failure.

    But the real problem is that the same attitude continues today. Ford, GM and Chrysler all ignored the energy situation, primarily continuing to build big cars and trucks. The leadership of the big 3 are paid tens of millions each year to perform the task of looking into the future, and the have done an absolutely horrible job of it. On the other hand, the Europeans/Japanese/Koreans do a pretty good job of it. That reasoning is verified in new car sales numbers.

    Now, if the big 3 were building what Americans wanted to drive, please tell us how they continue to lose market share. Why would Americans buy a car they didn't really want?

    I will give GM some credit...the Malibu is a good step in the right direction. But, it can't be equipped as nicely as its competition...For example, in the 08 model, no in-dash NAV system, but instead a hybrid On-star derivitive...Even though the majority of buyers don't buy a NAV equipped car, many buyers are keenly aware of the technology availability/limitations on vehicles and make purchasing decisions accordingly. Few folks want to buy any product that appears the be technologically behind, unless the price is really cheap.

    I also understand the labor issues here in the US. In fact, there was an article in the local newspaper today stating the UAW is upset because Ford announced a couple of days ago that they are going to build the US version of the Fiesta in Mexico. It is totally wthin the power of the UAW and big 3 to fix that problem, but they must be realistic in solving it. Again, the 1960's are over, and new problems require new and innovative solutions. There is no law prohibiting them from working together and solving these issues.

    You know, I think it is possible the US can regain its lead in the auto manufacturing business, but it won't be easy nor pain free. The UAW is going to have to recognize the world has changed, or they will end up with nothing. And, Management must cast off its old, pre-conceived notions on how the car business works and get creative again.

    The days of the US being the premier manufacturing sector in the world are over. Its gone, and its never coming back. Its truly a world economy today, and the sooner the US starts dealing with that fact the better off we will all be.

    I closing, I attempt to do what I think is best for me and my country when buying products. I prefer to buy American made, if the quality and price are somewhat comparable and the product is reasonable. If its not available, the I attempt to buy something that has as much US influence in it as possible.

    As you know from previous postings, I owned an 05 Aveo LT. While the mechanics were good, the body began self-destructing at around 20 K miles, and I traded it at 34 K miles. I tried the GM product, and it failed for me. When I began looking for an alternative, I found no domestically made unit available that I found appealing. So, I did the next best thing...I bought an Altima made by Americans in Canton, Mississippi. I considered other cars, including the VW Jetta, but ruled it out...one reason was no production facilities here in the US.

    If you feel that you need to support GM, then, by all means, please buy their products. If that works for you, great!

    Just don't expect everyone else to share your point of view...
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "Now, correct me if I am wrong, but all the cars I listed above are GM vehicles, carrying the Chevrolet or Pontiac nameplate. The window sticker says Chevrolet Equinox or Chevrolet HHR. You purchase them at a Chevrolet dealer, and have warranty/service work performed there as well. They ARE Chevrolet vehicles, plain and simple. Just because I was able to substantiate my claim doesn't give you the right to distort the truth or change the conditions of the question that you posed."

    You twisted this around after this started as a Chevrolet discussion. The HHR, Aveo, Equinox, yes they are lower in domestic content especially the Aveo which is an import. But to claim that there is many was a false statement. You could have said there are a couple or few but not many.

    As far as the finincial market goes the banking industry is not healthy in this country. Because of the lack of financial activity within banks they are not prosperring in this weak recession economy. Yes, I do say recession and it has been that way for about one year now according to many. For political reasons Washington doesn't want to use that word. Our president killed our economy with his bad decisions and big spending sprees and selfish reason to murder innocent people. It will take many years to get back what we had before this criminal got into office.

    There is more of an issue to what cars we build and what people want to drive. Face it there are a lot of uneducated consumers out there just like there are a lot of sleepers who don't understand the politics of this country or even care. There really has only been a couple bad American cars but some others are just average and others are very good or leaders in their segment. Peoples perceptions about Japanese cars are generally based off misinformation and marketing which the Japanese have been good at. A lot of people buy cars based on image for some reason. I know these people and my friends Lexus 330 SUV was just that and he admitted to it. At least his other vehicles are American.

    Face it there is little or no difference in cars today to rule another off. Even Hyundai can put out a descent car. Toyota's persception is dwindling these last few years with the recalls and lack luster reviews. When you are at the top typically you forget who you got there and that is where the attention to detail suffers.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "Now, correct me if I am wrong, but all the cars I listed above are GM vehicles, carrying the Chevrolet or Pontiac nameplate. The window sticker says Chevrolet Equinox or Chevrolet HHR. You purchase them at a Chevrolet dealer, and have warranty/service work performed there as well. They ARE Chevrolet vehicles, plain and simple. Just because I was able to substantiate my claim doesn't give you the right to distort the truth or change the conditions of the question that you posed."

    You twisted this around after this started as a Chevrolet discussion. The HHR, Aveo, Equinox, yes they are lower in domestic content especially the Aveo which is an import. But to claim that there is many was a false statement. You could have said there are a couple or few but not many.

    OK, you may have a point, but from my perspective, it was unintentional. Quite honestly, I was surprised at how many models were around 60% or less US/CAN content. And, remember, your earlier claim was that the Aveo was the ONLY one lower than 75%. In any case, I will concede the point that "many" or "several" may have been a poor choice of words.

    As far as the finincial market goes the banking industry is not healthy in this country. Because of the lack of financial activity within banks they are not prosperring in this weak recession economy. Yes, I do say recession and it has been that way for about one year now according to many. For political reasons Washington doesn't want to use that word. Our president killed our economy with his bad decisions and big spending sprees and selfish reason to murder innocent people. It will take many years to get back what we had before this criminal got into office.

    I make it a point to never discuss politics and religion, mainly because someone always seems to get pissed off, but I will add that George W. would be incorrect to list me as being an avid supporter of his. Nevertheless, the usual description used in the financial world for "recession" is "2 sequential quarters with no/negative GNP growth." Clearly, that hasn't happened.

    Now, where you live locally may indeed be in a recession, and things may be really tough there...but, as a whole, we are not in a recession in the true sense of the word.

    Also, if I may make a point...One man doesn't run this country. While I ABSOLUTELY agree that the current deficits are unsustainable, brother Bush had a lot of help from both parties in getting us to where we are now. Our government spends money so fast that it would embarass any drunken sailor...If we, as a country, can't get a grip on how Washington is driving this bus, we are all doomed for a quick ride over the cliff's edge....and, soon!

    There is more of an issue to what cars we build and what people want to drive. Face it there are a lot of uneducated consumers out there just like there are a lot of sleepers who don't understand the politics of this country or even care. There really has only been a couple bad American cars but some others are just average and others are very good or leaders in their segment. Peoples perceptions about Japanese cars are generally based off misinformation and marketing which the Japanese have been good at. A lot of people buy cars based on image for some reason. I know these people and my friends Lexus 330 SUV was just that and he admitted to it. At least his other vehicles are American.


    In many ways, I agree....Every manufacturer makes good and bad designs as well as individual cars. And, the Japanese have no monopoly on distorting marketing claims...all the manufacturers do it. Remember, too...the ad-men making these advertisements are US companies...so, I would simply say its not just the Japanese...

    As for image, brother! Isn't that the truth! Since I live near the US BMW plant, this area is "eaten up" with folks driving BMW's. I would bet that, per capita, South Carolina has more 3 series than any other state in the US. Problem is, quite a lot of these folks really can't afford the cars. They are going to drive one, however, even if it means being late or missing the house/rent payment. I guess Forest Gump was right..."Stupid is as stupid does."

    Face it there is little or no difference in cars today to rule another off. Even Hyundai can put out a descent car. Toyota's persception is dwindling these last few years with the recalls and lack luster reviews. When you are at the top typically you forget who you got there and that is where the attention to detail suffers.

    Quite correct. As I stated earlier, the Malibu is probably as good or even better as any other car in its price range/size/class. And, in its race to overtake GM as top dog, Toyota's quality has indeed suffered. But, as I stated in an earlier posting, the domestic manufacturers did a wonderful job running off customers in the 70's-mid 90's, and I'm doubtful if they will ever recover substantially from those losses. Its extremely difficult to entice a previous customer to come back to you after you have screwed him over, especially since there are so many other quality choices out there.

    I have 1 other point I wish to discuss with you, but I will put it in a separate posting...Have a good day!
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Let me begin by saying you should feel free to disagree with some/most/all of this posting...

    I wanted to address something you brought up in an earlier posting...the question about whether or not having foreign auto manufacturers establish plants in the US is good or bad for the US economy.

    1st, a statement we both can agree upon...

    It is good for the US economy to have domestic auto manufacturers operating domestic plants making cars for domestic and foreign consumption.

    We would also agree on the statement...

    It is good for the US economy to have domestic auto manufacturers operating domestic plants making cars for domestic consumption.

    And, the statement...

    It is good for the US economy to have domestic auto manufacturers operating domestic plants making cars for foreign consumption.

    We can agree on these statements because US companies are making money employing US workers who, in turn, pay US taxes.

    Here's where it gets dicey...

    It is good for the US economy to have foreign auto manufacturers operating domestic plants making cars for domestic and foreign consumption.

    This is indeed what we have today, and from your recent postings, you appear to disagree.

    Well, what's different? The US employee is still being employed at a decent wage (we can get into UAW .vs. non-UAW issues later if you wish, but that is entirely another can of worms...) and paying taxes. The plant and equipment is also being taxed, just like domestic manufacturers, contributing millions of dollars to local economies. The difference is that a foreign company is now controlling the profits from these operations, versus domestic companies. However, taxes are still being paid on the domestic revenues created by these companies...just like what GM or Ford would pay operating a plant in, say Germany or Japan.

    Granted, it would be better overall if the profits were controlled domestically, since in theory our country can exert control over our own companies, but I would make the argument that in today's world-based economy, nationality isn't nearly as important as it once was. Companies at this level are keenly aware of monetary exchange rates and issues, and they don't simply pile the cash in a boat and sail home with it like they might have done 50 years ago.

    They do indeed convert the currencies into the national currency when reporting profits and accounting information, but that is done in order to make the information more "readable and understandable" to the investors, governments, etc.

    One other point...You appear to feel that these foreign companies are only here temporarily. I can't name even one foreign car company with a US presence that has reduced its overall investment here in the US... I can't...Can you?

    And, how long has Honda had a presence in Ohio? 20, 25, 30 years or more? When does temporary become permanent...at least, in a business sense?

    At one time, the Honda plant was a net exporter of some models, making more here than were sold here. I don't know if that continues to be the case today.

    If you still feel that having foreign manufacturing plants...be it auto, tire, appliance...whatever...is bad for the US economy, I would suggest you contact any of the localities or states where these plants are located and ask the appropriate officials their opion on the matter. I feel sure they would see nothing negative at all, and be more than happy to quote a long list of positives to you.

    If I sound a bit like I am preaching here, I humbly appologize. It isn't my attempt. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that. From your earlier postings, you appear to be a decent, family oriented man, and I would never attempt to show you disrespect.

    Have a good day!
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    Oye is this the Chevrolet Aveo discussion group or not???? :confuse:
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Well Isuzu and Toyota's Dahatsu reduced their investment here to the point of no longer selling cars. These foreign companies are leaching off our economy and it usually doesn't lead to exports other than their own money leaving. Short-term building of an assembly plant leads to quick profits that could lead to long term but again they are just enriching themselves at our expense.

    As far as blocks being put in place for American companies to do business over there you can research that on your own. I am not here to give links to stories regarding that because it is somewhat known that Japan doesn't like companies other than Japanese doing business in its country and there are political and financial road blocks to go through.

    And as far as how it hurts the U.S. economy when a foreign car builder builds here. Again I will go back to what I said before. Its no fair trade off because a foreign car builder employee takes a job from an employee from Ford, Chrysler, etc., so that person loses his/her job. They already have places (usually outside the U.S.) were they are going to get their parts thus forcing U.S. companies to look for less inexpensive parts outside of the U.S. therebye the closure of local suppliers and union issues (strikes, contract extensions). To stay competitive because of the increased costs caused by the foreign invasion American cars company employees lose out to Mexico, China, Indonesia, etc, to those parts that were previously created here. Then there are companies like Toyota who make it a practice of hiring part-timers to avoid benefits.

    I can say this that Japanese cars did help American companies get off their butts and pay attention to detail in build quality. I have worked in the auto industry in the past as a porter/detailer, and salesman so I have seen and driven many cars. The auto dealers I worked for were; 2 Nissan dealers, 1 Mazda dealer, 2 Chevrolet dealers, 1 Toyota dealer. Other than fit and finish there wasn't really any other noticible difference. The American vehicles tended to be heavier (doors, hoods, etc) but they both had similar service issues.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    I didn't say anything right away as drifting off topic is inevitable. However, I do believe it is time that you shifted it back to focusing on the Aveo. Not that your comments haven't been interesting! This just is not the right place to post them. Please check out the Auto News board for appropriate discussions for your comments, or you can create a new discussion there.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I heard on NPR radio, as well as on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno that the old Metro's are selling for up to $7000 as people are attempting to get more fuel efficient cars.

    For just a little more money, they could get a base-line Aveo with a 100K warranty. I wonder why GM hasn't really started pushing the Aveo for, say, a secondary "commuter" car for folks to drive back and forth to work. If I remember the 98 Metro I owned correctly, it got only slightly better mpg than the Aveo, and the Aveo is certainly a safer car...
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    It depends on what version of Metro you get. They had two engines and the base I believe was a 1.3 L 3-cylinder and the optional 4-cylinder. The 3-cylinder Suzuki engine was the mileage champ here in the states when it was made with people consistantly getting over 50 mpg highway.

    The Aveo weighs quite a bit more so it wouldn't be able to achieve those kind of numbers.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    It depends on what version of Metro you get. They had two engines and the base I believe was a 1.3 L 3-cylinder and the optional 4-cylinder. The 3-cylinder Suzuki engine was the mileage champ here in the states when it was made with people consistantly getting over 50 mpg highway.

    Yes...wasn't the 2-door the 3 cylinder? The 98 Metro I had was a 4-door, and it had a 4-cylinder. The thing I remember most about that car was the interior...The cloth was rock-solid, and would resist any stain. I used to tell my wife that I thought you could pour hydrochloric acid on it and it wouldn't have any effect...

    Still, I would gladly give up a couple of MPG to get the additional safety features of a new Aveo over the old Metro. The Metro was certainly not a car you wanted to get hit in on the expressway....
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Before it was called a Metro it was called a Sprint. I drove a 3-cylinder Sprint turbo that was really fast. It had that pulling to the side torque at acceleration. I think it was rated at 100 hp which which a lot in those days especially such a small car.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Was that around the same time they were selling that funky looking 2 seater convertible rig? I saw one the other day (in really bad shape, but running still).

    I wonder if it had the hi-performance engine in it....
  • jhogan1jhogan1 Member Posts: 1
    I'm thinking of getting a chevy aveo but am concerned about how well it will stand up to our country gravel roads. Being a rural community, most of our population live on county roads and drive at 30mph on them. Like everyone else, we need a small economical vehicle and the aveo seems to fit the profile, but nobody has said anything about driving on less than perfect roads and how these type of conditions would affect the car overall. Our larger toyota is still tight after 9 years. I know I can't expect that on a small compact car, but Scion people are trying to tell me that anything less that a Scion (toyota company?) won't last. Any comments?
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Consider who told you that. When I was a car salesman we told all kinds of tales because that is part of the sales game. The Scians attracted younger buyers to Toyota but they actually are not anything more than an average car. They are kind of high priced, styling is not one of their strong points, mileage is kind of low, and interior finish puts them toward the back of the class.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    That Sprint from Suzuki was the start of their car sharing with Japanese automakers. After the Sprint they formed the GEO division which consisted of Isuzu's, Suzuki's, and Toyota's. The Sprint became the Metro but I don't recall a Sprint convertible but I wouldn't be surprised. I would doubt it had a turbo engine in it because generally convertibles don't have high performance engines.

    The two Isuzu models were the GEO Storm which I think was an Isuzu Impulse, and a small four door sedan which I don't recall the name. From Toyota they just had the Corolla based Nova that was eventually called the Prism.

    Back in the 1970's Chevy got their first mini truck from Isuzu called the Chevy Luv.
  • bruce69bruce69 Member Posts: 1
    any body get chevy to replace their 2007 aveo with a 2008 aveo for front end noise unresolved per the gm TBS for bushings, control arms etc.

    my issue seems worse during heat. did not notice when i bought car in january in texas
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