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VW Passat TDI

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,907
    We're changing the title to Passat TDI, given that it's a fact rather than a question.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    For anyone looking I just got an email from Chapman VW in Pheonix AZ. They have a new Passat Wagon TDI available. That's all I know...
  • cactus5cactus5 Posts: 22
    I just got my August Car & Driver it shows a picture of the 06 Passat. It mentions the 2.0 liter TDI engine as an option. So is the magazine correct? Where did the idea of the diesel Passat only being around for 1 year come from?
  • Read the USA TODAY link posted above. I don't know if it is true about the one year thing, but one thing I know is my Passat TDI is relatively quiet at idle and makes no more noise than a gas model at highway speeds.
  • jchagtdijchagtdi Posts: 55
    Back in '96 we all thought (because we were told by VW) that the Passat TDI would continue into the B5 model (98+ in USA and Canada).

    I can see where many people would be skeptical of this report about an '06 Passat TDI. I want to see an '06 Passat TDI more than anyone, and I hope it happens. The 2.0 is good, but the 2.5 inline 5 cyl TDI with 4Motion and a manual tranny would be wicked!

    Jeff
  • hienphamhienpham Posts: 4
    Is it possible to buy the Passat TDI out of state and bring it to California ?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    I think the law is that it has to have 7500 miles on it before it can be licensed. I am trying to justify buying one and doing just that. If you want one Las Vegas seems to sell a lot of the TDI Passats. Go to Las Vegas buy one make a couple trips around the country and then register it. If you own it for more than 90 days you also save the CA sales tax. I would not hold my breath till CARB gets their head out of their posterior. I cannot see them reversing any decision. Even with ULSD available in most cities in CA they are holding on to their ignorant regulations.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Has to have 7500 miles before it can be registered in CA.

    I'm aware of some folks that have made agreements with others to buy them a TDI, put the initial 7500 miles on it, then sell them the car. This seems to save money because most of the used TDI's with 7500 miles that show up on dealers lots in CA are selling for well beyond MSRP of a brand new one. Example, you send someone an upfront fee and they will buy a Passat TDI that meets your approval. You mutually agree to buy/sell the car for a set price (usually under MSRP) at the point the car has 7500 miles. You get a slightly used TDI for under MSRP and the other person gets cheap transportation for 7500 miles. I have a friend doing this right now a friend of his that lives in Berkley. Another plus is the car gets broken in by someone you know/trust as opposed to whoever a dealer can get to drive the thing. Course you could always stick the thing on blocks and let it run up the miles. Executives at GM used to do that all the time since they could get a new car every 15k miles, lol..
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 245
    A friend of mine, who is an investigator with the California DMV, told me of a loophole in California law big enough to drive a new TDI through. While it is true that all-new cars (new is defined as less than 7500 miles) registered in California must be certified as meeting CARB emissions there are some exceptions. For example, if you meet any of the following, you can register a new 49-state car in California.

    .Obtained it as part of a divorce or inheritance settlement.
    .Purchased it to replace a vehicle stolen while you were using it out of state.
    .Purchased it to replace a vehicle which was destroyed or made inoperative beyond reasonable repair while you were using it out of state.
    .Were on active military duty outside California, and you registered the vehicle in the state of your last military service.

    My friend told me that if I want a TDI, I should buy a cheep ($1000 or less) used car, keep it a couple of months, then drive it to Las Vegas and trade it in on a new TDI. When you make the deal ask the dealer to only give you a couple hundred on the trade and reduce the price of the new TDI by the savings. When you register the new car in California you’ll show them the paperwork and tell them the old car broke down in Vegas and was not cost effective to repair.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    Very Sneaky ; ^ )
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,985
    Thanks for the heads up!
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Posts: 265
    The coldest weather I've started one of my diesels is 19 which by northern standards is not very cold, but at 19 it only took a couple more minutes to warm up. Then another 5 minutes for the heater to start putting out warm air. This was with my Cummings. My Ford is not that cold natured and I can plug it in if I need to. As for the VW, it doesn't take as long and with heated seats who cares.

    My personal experence is I can't tell much difference. I love the new generation of diesels and plan on getting another diesel when I can afford it.

    One of my concerns about getting a diesel is someone is trying to buy out VW and they are the main people importing diesels automobiles to the US. I thank there are those who would like to stop diesels...................
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,059
    Very good, I like those ideas. As long as CARB has their head in the wrong place I think all is fair...
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    RE: "All diesel cars are notoriously slow in warming the interior"

    You're close, sort of...
    Actually all engines that are all cast iron are slow to warm up, gas or diesel.
    VW diesels have aluminum heads, so the coolant is warmed quickly just like in your gas car.
    There's little difference. But an aluminum block gas enging will warm much faster, and even a normal (iron block, alum heads) V6 gas will warm faster than the TDI because its burning much more fuel.
    Its all simple thermodynamics.

    But for older designs that are 100% cast iron that was true.
  • weebil1weebil1 Posts: 10
    After about 6 weeks of struggle, I finally picked up my TDI today-so far so good. The original quote was $2000 over MSRP, but was whittled down (I had time to look for others at MSRP that could be shipped to my area) for $250 over MSRP. I suspect some of the "delay" was people with more cash flow stepping in to outbid me, as several cars "on the way" became unavailable the day before I was to receive it.
    Excuse #1 Sent the wrong car
    Excuse #2 Engine was "blown"
    I don't care to go into the hallaballoo the car I received supposedly went through. Let's just say I am happy to see my gas fuel needle stay in a consistant position after a days drive.
    And the sooner I figure out how to "shift" a Triptronic without taking my foot off the gas first the better. I'm going to get picked up on suspicion of a DUI really soon.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    I read a few scary articles suggesting the TDIs may be discontinued in North America.
    Our Passat TDI Wagon is now officially scheduled to arrive in October and it will be a 2005.
    But it appears that Canada's allotment of TDI wagons is gone indefinitely (there are still sedans, but they are somewhat rare too).

    So, my wife will be keeping her TDI wagon for a LONG time once it arrives.

    I'd like to test an A6-TDI. Audi says they'll be selling A4 TDIs in Canada next fall, but aren't certain about any other models.
    The A4 is a tight fit for me.
    The Benz CDI looks interesting too.
    Anybody test one of those yet?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    You just never know what VW is going to do when it comes to TDI's. They have plenty of demand around the world for them, we seem to get the scraps. As for the Benz CDI, I've checked one out and it's a slick machine. The diesel is far and away more advanced/slick than anything VW offers to the NA market. My only complaint is it's RWD only which means it would be staying home even more than my current FWD TDI. I'm sure the Audi would come with AWD so that would interest me even more. You do realize the A4 is the kissing cousin to the Passat? Essentially the same interior specs. The mercedes feels about the same up front to me.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    A4 has less room in the rear seat than the Passat.
  • cactus5cactus5 Posts: 22
    I live in Phoenix and have been interested in VW diesels. I have been researching the vw diesels for quite sometime, and I am sold on them. I would be interested in doing this. How does one go about doing this. I would like to know more about it. Thanks
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    This should be interesting...

    Cactus5: looks like a great way to test a car you are interested in, but uncertain of!

    Sebring: how do you feel about buying a new car for someone you don't know in another state? A little scary?

    One simple solution to consider is a letter of credit. Sebring puts up the money to purchase the slightly used TDI in the near future, but its in an LOC. Cactus knows the money is there and Sebring can't reneg on the deal, but also that he has to meet the terms of the agreement to release the funds (can't thrash the car, or put 20k miles on it, etc.)

    This is how you sell North American product into Korea, China, etc.
    They put the money into an LOC in a bank in your town, and you get the funds once the product arrives.

    In fact, there was several million dollars of Canadian beef crossing the Pacific when the mad-cow thing hit. Even though the product was banned in Korea when it arrived, the Canadian suppliers got paid (they met the terms in the LOC) which is lucky for them. It means the importers in Korea went bankrupt instead of the ranchers. (Don't ask what happened to the beef ... it didn't go to waste though)
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I don't know the full details of how my friend is doing this, but it's something like this;

    You pay me $2,000 for an option to purchase a used '04 TDI Passat at 7500 miles for $23,000 ($25,000 MSRP-$2,000). If for any reason I don't/can't deliver the vehicle, the option is refundable. If you don't exercise the option, you're out $2,000 (and I have an extra car to deal with). You get a slightly used TDI with 7500 miles for a pre-determined price. I get somewhat free new-car transportation for 7500 miles.
  • machaanmachaan Posts: 30
    When I was car shopping in March Gas GLS were available at invoice, while TDIs were at or above MSRP. $2000 buys a lot to gas, even at todays inflated prices. Add $1000 more if you can drive stick.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    You're missing the other factors, but first look at your argument.
    2000 buys a lot of gas ... yes. At only $2 a gallon its 1000 gallons.
    But based on this price argument you'll be buying a Kia. Have fun!
    ... but seriously, if you don't drive a lot you are absolutely right.

    Where I live, a TDI costs more than a 1.8t, but the difference is less than US$1000. But even that $1000 buys EVEN MORE diesel than gas.

    Why a TDI will save you money:
    One can argue about the cheaper maintenance, but that's not the big story. Its resale. The funny thing about selling your car is that you have to find someone who wants to buy a USED car instead of NEW. And that's usually because they don't have as much money. So they often are concerned about operating costs, such as fuel and maintenance. And also how long it will last, because they're likely not planning to replace it until they have to.

    There are so few used VW Passat diesels to choose from (the owners hold onto them) that its hard to research, but there are lots more Mercedes.
    So I popped onto Autotrader and did 2 advanced searches:
    1996-1999 E320 sedan, over 100,000 miles, GAS fuel
    111 ads with an average price of $13547 and median mlg ~115,000
    1996-1999 E300 sedan, over 100,000 miles, DIESEL fuel
    22 ads with an average price of $17478 and median mlg ~140,000
    (to get median mileage I sorted the ads on mileage and then took the ads in the middle of the list)

    So, ignoring the cheaper fuel, using less of it, saving on maintenance, etc.. the story with Benz is that you can put 20% more miles on your car, and still sell it for a 30% premium over a gas model.

    Intangibles are that is sells faster (Passat TDIs are a sellers market because of HUGE demand from people who can't afford a new one) it performs better in "normal" driving, Plus that AUTO in the Passat TDI that everyone on this forum hates is actually a bonus at resale because manuals generally sell for less (and are harder to sell) than autos in the US.
    But that last argument is weakest for VWs, because the owners tend to be enthusiasts more than with other makes of automotive appliances.

    So, its been said before: if you don't put a lot of miles on (or won't own the car long) get the gas, but if you drive a lot or want a car that lasts forever spring for the diesel ... it pays in the long run.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    Actually, buying a diesel VW in the US has nothing to do with economy or performance. Its about being different without standing out.
    Diesel owners are all closet anarchists.
    Watch out! (and never cut one off in traffic... )
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    I did the same classifieds search on Passats, and (as expected) there are very few.
    Here's the results:
    1996-1997 Passat sedan, over 100,000 miles, GAS fuel, 4-cyl. 5-spd.
    2 ads with an average price of $5997 and HIGHEST mlg 110,168
    1996-1997 Passat sedan, over 100,000 miles, DIESEL fuel, 4-cyl. 5-spd.
    2 ads with an average price of $6440 and LOWEST mlg 151,000

    2 datum does not a statistical sampling make, but even with 50% higher mileage (the other TDI has >175,000 on it) the TDI still sells for more.

    So if you drive a lot...
  • cactus5cactus5 Posts: 22
    You guys should know that I'm 53 years old and all my friends say I have a tendency to drive a bit to slow at times. Sebring brings up a good point,I would be SCARED to sign an agreement with someone I don't know. Personally I would be making a lot of trips over to California to get those 7500 miles on the car quickly and then buying my own TDI passat if I liked it. What is an LOC?
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    An LOC is a letter of credit.
    Its a monetary instrument where someone deposits money into an account for someone else (like a check, except backed by cash) and the receiver has to meet the terms of the letter of credit to discharge the funds.

    Think of it as a money order with some conditions attached. And if the conditions are not meant, then the person who provided the money gets it back.

    For example, you buy a $23,000 car after receiving a letter of credit from Sebring's bank stating that there is $22,250 held pending these criteria:
    - you must provide a Passat TDI to him with between 7500 and 8000 miles on it.
    - the deal must conclude before September 30th, 2004
    - there must be no damage to the car, of if there is your insurance must repair it first, and the damage cannot exceed $2000
    - etc.

    These are sample figures and dates and terms, but you get the idea.
    The LOC (letter of credit) protects you to make sure that if you live up to your side of the bargain you get paid.
    The LOC protects Sebring because his funds are held by the bank and you can't get his money without him getting the car as per the terms of the agreement.
    I'd suggested that the sale price be the tax-in purchase price minus $750 so you pay 10 cents per mile as conpensation for using a new car, but you guys can arrange whatever numbers you want.

    An LOC is a standard form of monetary escrow that is handled by most major banks. It is primarily used for payments for international purchases where neither the buyer nor seller has much legal recourse if something goes wrong.

    For example, when I'm buying electronic parts from Korea or China:
    If I send them money first and don't get parts, what can I do?
    But if they send me parts first and I don't pay, what can they do?
    If I put the money into an LOC contingent on the parts arriving (and meeting certain quality criteria) then they know that I've paid the money into an LOC and I can't get it back if they meet the terms.
    So, we arrange a deal. Then I put the money into the bank and they provide the vendor with the letter of credit verifying the funds are there. The vendor sends me the parts. I tell them the parts have arrived and are the right parts in the right quantity and acceptable quality. The bank releases the funds.

    Talk to your bank about a letter of credit.
  • machaanmachaan Posts: 30
    "You're missing the other factors, but first look at your argument.
    2000 buys a lot of gas ... yes. At only $2 a gallon its 1000 gallons.
    But based on this price argument you'll be buying a Kia. Have fun!"

    So diesel Passat is more fun to drive than gas?
    I prefer stick. Even if TDIs came with stick, they are significantly slower than
    most minivans(Sienna, Odyssey, Quest).

    If Gas and TDI are priced the same, I might have been driving a TDI now.

    I am wondering what other factors I am missing apart from the tiny TDI badge on the trunk.
  • weebil1weebil1 Posts: 10
    O.K., granted I just came off of driving a Jeep Wrangler (15-20mpg) but I grew up driving stick shifts. I just spent the day getting familiar with my new TDI, and now that I can get a grip on when to use the shift-triptronic dohicky without feeling for the clutch, I have to say, it's alot of fun. I have never driven a diesel before, but in speaking to people who inquire about my new car, there seems to be a misconception that diesels have no zip. NOT TRUE! Loads of power, and you can control it by dropping the gears like you would in a stick, and I love watching the MPG monitor show me 42MPG on a straight away. I will be keeping the car long term, and I drive alot for my job, so for me it's worth not going through the &%$#* at the dealership for another 10 years-maybe more. Also, as Biodiesel increases in availablity, I fully expect to spend the $600 for a conversion kit and fuel up at my local restaurant! (not just yet, it is a new car...)
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Posts: 243
    Not only is bio-diesel a reneweable resource (unlike decomposed dinasoars there is an endless supply) but it has no sulphur in it too, so no acid rain!

    Between diesel engines and bio-diesel fuel, North America could tell the arabs where to pump their oil!

    But even if all commuters switched from their SUVs to TDIs, the need to import might disappear between Alaskan, Canadian, and continental US production of crude.

    I've never heard of a conversion kit. Most people just run a mix of Bio & normal diesel in a stock VW. Please correct me.
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