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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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    bmartinpebmartinpe Member Posts: 51
    Seems that they found a hole in the pipe line from Prudehoe Bay and are shutting down 8% of our oil supply till they get it fixed. I would expect fuel prices to jump to the $3.25-$3.50 per gallon range soon (we have been seeing $2.99 per gallon diesel in Middle Tennessee). And I would expect that if corrosion is in one part of the pipe line, it will be likely to be in other parts also. It's going to be a long hard winter!

    I seem to recall that JIT was the manager's buzz word in the early 1990s. Just in time manufacturing (JIT) called for pushing inventory banks back on the shoulders of the suppliers so that manufacturing companies could reduce their inventory costs on their balance sheets. If a part didn't arrive just in time, that forced a shut down or redirection of the line until the part was available. JIT philosophy spread throughout industry in general, and may be one cause as to why we are seeing volatile price swings in our fuel delivery. Successful implementation of JIT funded many upper level managers bonuses, and now we are paying the price in terms of fuel cost volatility.
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    terrypfterrypf Member Posts: 2
    I am sorry you bought this POS. Mine has been sitting in the drive way for 6 months while I battle DCX in court to lemon it back. make sure you save all your paperwork, you'll need it.
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    terrypfterrypf Member Posts: 2
    have your dealer check the brake booster, mine was stuck on for 5,000 mile and ruined the vehicle.
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    caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    According to EU news, 100 USD for a barrel of crude oil is more than possible. We are so overcharged here that a tax free oil at 300 USD would be equal to what we are paying today. Feels good :sick:
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    new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Siberia,
    What was the outcome? You said they coplied? What does that mean?
    Thanks
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    new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Terrypf,
    Tell us more about your DCX battles - I'm thinking of going down that road myself. BTW, I feel sorry for the guy in miami who just bought one. I wish he had read this board first! Oh well, maybe he got a good one.
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    tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Last monday made an appointment for this am at a "new" dealership and happen to meet a very sympathetic service writer. She listened and actually wrote down what I said. Interestingly, we arrived before 7am and she came out to do the full write up-unlike every other dealership that we've been to that doesn't open the door until the exact time if not later.

    The previous dealership got us back our crd by july 3rd. They put in new lbj's, front shocks, and a new tcm. The following weekend the better half took a 65mph trip and evic read 25 - actual mpg at fillup 21 mpg. Local driving evic showed 19 - actual mpg at fillup 15.

    In by 7am out by noon. Got the reflash today. Tranny issue is supposed to be remedied by this flash. Today the evic is now showing 27-28 for around town mixed driving. I told her I could only mention the dealership name(she just came from many years with the general) Grapevine Chrysler Jeep Dodge.
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    siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    What was the outcome? You said they coplied? What does that mean?

    It took Chrysler Financial over 21 days to endorse and return an insurance check subsequent to a minor accident. We paid out of pocket to obtain the vehicle. CF said they did not receive the check to endorse - fortunately sent by registered mail. Then CF said the check was in the mail - did not arrive. Then CF said the check was sort of lost - not really they just needed to find it. Still did not send it - filed complaint with DC and threatened to file complaint with Kansas Banking Commissioner. CF sent the check - filed complaint anyway. :mad:
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    siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    My service department at Woodhouse has been nothing but excellent. They service Ford and Dodge diesels and see the Jeep CRD as just another diesel. They actually seem to enjoy diagnostics and educating owners about their diesels.
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    winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Thanks. I did speak to a trans shop person who said that the RFE545 and RFE462 were two different animals but he was unable to tell me any of the real differences.
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    nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    I am in Central florida and there is no body selling biodiesel here; with the price going up and up why the government don't help a company to produce biodiesel nation wide is there a government cartel against the production of any alternative fuel?. The high oil prices are destroying this country if this keep on going there is going to be anarchy in the US
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It takes a lot of land, water and petroleum to grow the crop that you make into biodiesel. It may help supply and air quality but I don't think it's not going to help the pump price anytime soon. Check out the Biodiesel vehicles discussion for more.
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    new2diesel: I was told the clutches and tc were heavy duty and a harder shift was part of te difference. The trans tec is on vacation this week and I will ask him when he comes back.

    Farout
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    bmartinpe: It is my understanding that most of oil from that pipe line was sold to Japan> I really doubt this will be anything but another reason to hike the price of fuel. If we buy this crock of garbage from these oil companies that we deserve what we get. Only when people demand that there be a limit on profit made off the price of US servicemen and women who are protecting Iraq so the rich get riches. If we fail to see that oil is at the heart of this war we arevery nieve. I voted for our President, but he too like the VP has oil in their blood. I would rather pay $6.00 a gallon than one more US service person die over in Iraq!

    Farout
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    zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Biodiesel makes good sense because most of what's being made in the US is a byproduct from making something else. For instance, in my area of Michigan we grow tons of soybeans. You can press out the soybean oil and the remaining "soy meal" is still useful for animal feed or some food products. Soybean oil can be used in human foods and to some extent is, but it's not the most desirable and the supply exceeds food demand. So a lot of this surplus soybean oil can be made into biodiesel with little impact on the food supply or farming.

    My nearest supplier of B20 is selling it for 1 cent more than B2 ($3.10/9 vs. 3.09/9). Another station farther away is selling B20 for about 5 cents less than pure petrodiesel. Unlike E85, the gas mileage on B20 is essentially the same as on petrodiesel - it may be 2% lower in some lab testing, but in the real world you can't really tell that difference.

    The problem with soy biodiesel, like E85, is that current production methods won't allow us to make enough to make any significant dent in total demand, and therefore national average prices. But for the lucky among us who live in areas with biodiesel, it's a useful option.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This really isn't the discussion for it although it's come up before (link); check out the Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel board for that whole debate.
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    anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    Hi! A 2005 CRD with a salvage title just sold on eBay for $17587. Sure beats a trade in!

    Peace! LK

    Ebay # 320012808430
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    caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    farout, $6 our economy may be able to afford but "WIA Not RTD" figures go way beyond the understanding or acceptation of our driving pleasure. It's time to make better use of fuel and the CRD comes at the right moment. Let's hope our authorities don't have cold feet and accept simpler emissions regulations that industry can provide reliably!
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    smokinclattersmokinclatter Member Posts: 40
    Oh please ! Go to the Michael Moore Forum for that lefty stuff.
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    nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Smokinclatter....Lefty Stuff! MY CRD should be build with a commin engine not a vm motori engine, all of this company buy engines and what so ever in a foreign country knowing that there will be a monopoly on those parts. If we have an american engine, parts will be more cheaper than what we have to paid for now. DCX have all of this engine made in Italy, Germany, etc and the american engine and the american peaple have to pay big price for all of this none sense. -Oil the samething. What is happening to us is this America or WHAT.
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    smokinclattersmokinclatter Member Posts: 40
    nescosmo: Below is the part of the post I was refering to.

    Only when people demand that there be a limit on profit made off the price of US servicemen and women who are protecting Iraq so the rich get riches. If we fail to see that oil is at the heart of this war we arevery nieve. I voted for our President, but he too like the VP has oil in their blood. I would rather pay $6.00 a gallon than one more US service person die over in Iraq!
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    How about we get back to the Jeep in here and leave the politics for another forum?

    Thanks.
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    smokinclattersmokinclatter Member Posts: 40
    That was my original request.

    My CRD does pull to the right a tad
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    winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    My CRD does pull to the right a tad.

    Possible issues present here.

    1. Tire pressure is too low on the right side.

    2. Alignment problem

    3. Brake problem

    4. Drivetrain issue with front axle/differential/transfer case.
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Steve: I live 75 miles from a B-2 station, and I know of no place selling B-5 say nothing of B-20. After thinking this issue over If I had a chance to use B-5 on a regular basis I would. Perhaps I would even try the B-20. In a near by town they explored to see if there would be enough corn growers to make a Bio fuel plant. The results were there are not enough corm producers in a radius of three counties to make it pay for 1/2 of the cost over 5 years. Every bit of fuel here in Lake of the Ozarks. has to be trucks in from a longer distance, and because we are a recreational area the fuel is naturally a bit higher, but $3.20 a gallon seems higher than most of the state of Missouri. Organ has some of the highest prices for diesel in the US. This war and this pipe line (pipe dream) is going to really take a dent in a working mans pocket. How high do you think Diesel will go? Will diesel ever be much lower than gasoline?

    Farout
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    caribou: You impress me as a wise person. Here in the US people can't get enough horse power, no matter how much the fuel cost. Can we say "HEMI" DCX is not very responsible along the line of conservation of fuel. During the depression people were forced to conserve, with WWII the government gave coupons to car owners based on actual need. Most left travel only for getting food and doctors visits and work. Rationing fuel is a drastic measure, but when people and vehicle makers are irresponsible in making and buying these gas hogs, we just might be looking at some form of forced fuel consumption. I hate the thought.

    Farout
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    smokinclatter: I am NOT on the liberal side of politics! Thanks for your opinion. We all have a right to an opinion.

    Farout
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    arvmanarvman Member Posts: 95
    This bio diesel topic is neat.In this town there is a co-operative getting together to educate people about bio-diesel and ethanol.I believe it will take a grassroots movement to get this process going.Once oil companies see this they will catch on I hope.I wouold like to see independent companies producing bio-d and groups like the co-op making bio.I won't make my own in order not to void the warranty,however,if I could get B-5 I would run it.They only supply bio to the large volume users here but there is a growing interst among the public to make it more accessible.This is coming everywhere,it will take time and a will on our part in all counties but especially North America.I bought this jeep for the diesel because I believe once the bugs are worked out it will be a good rig,I hope I'm right.By then,I'm hoping bio-D will be accessible and of a stable and reliable nature,not just garage brewers,though they may have refined the technique as well.Those guys are running it in VW rabbits and mercedes cars with no problems.It's either pay to drive,find another or don't drive,like Steve said let's keep the jeep in the spotlight here,mine's running awesome,cheers...
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    dllindseydllindsey Member Posts: 3
    There are many websites that tell you how to make your own biodiesel at home, it is kind of complicated and you can only mix it with regular diesel at a certain percent. Look for Pete, the biodiesel guy.
    We just bought bikes, but we live 5 miles from anything. I may try to find oil in my back yard.
    Our 05 CRD is running great now but it just came home from the shop for the sixth time. We took it up to Branson and Fairfield Bay, Arkansas and back home to Louisiana with no problem, so far.
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    I have the answer to the 462 on the side of the CRD transmission. This number 462 is a factory code number for the 545 RFE. The only reason the number 462 is on there is just the code # at the factory. This was amazing to me. I have had two dealers make up things that could not have been farther from the truth. What's wrong that people can't say "I don't know"?
    This information came from Dan at Yark Chrysler Jeep in Toledo, Ohio. He has been in the VM Motori plant and has been involved with DCX in what they were hoping would be the CRD for 2007. According to Dan, there is a tsb that calls for the circular filter to be replaced as well as the bottom filter, that was for 2005' only. The problem with this early built CRD's transmissions is a rattle noise in the pump. Should this go very long it makes toast of the tc and other problems. Also the transmission cooler is connected to the AC (I dont know how) and if the cooler line get plugged that's all she wrote.
    Dan said the biggest problem with the EGR going bad and repeating to go out is the TEC's are not replacing the PCM when they go out! The PCM is the reason these EGR's go out, especially the early build 2005 CRD. The PCM controls the EGR and that's the sourse of the EGR problems. The repeated changes comes back to an unchanged PCM.
    The reason the diesel was dropped is the fact the Liberty is a "Light Utility Vehicle", and the emission requirements for a LUV are even more strict than the regular truck. However there is a problem even with the 2007 Dodge Ram. The 6.9 has the same power as the old 5.7 diesel but fuel consumption is much more than to 2006 Cummins.
    According to Dan that any diesel pump that goes bad goes to DCX and if the barrings are scored they know Bio fuel higher than B-5 was used and it will not be covered under Warranty. These pumps are $2,075. + labor! and there have been enough pumps returned that this in effect now. DCX does nor encourage the use of any Bio fuel. They do come from the factory with B-5 only as apolitical effort in Ohio for the farm state. The big thing is to change the water separator filter to prevent water getting to the pump.
    Dan stated the main thing with the 545 RFE is changing the Transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. These transmissions are very strong, reliable, and will last a very long time. He has one that has 200,000 and runs well.
    The only engine to get a MB transmission is the 300 6.1 Hemi and one other but I did not write it down.
    Dan said these engine are tough and DCX has used these engines for more than 10 years, failure rate is almost unheard of due to basic block and head. There are some, but often relate to other issues. There is no reason these engine can not endure to 200,000 miles or more.
    The GC diesel will go into production Jan 15,07 and is the MB 3.0V-6 turbo diesel Bluetec. The power is less (I did not get less than what?) But a proven engine with more emissions than before.
    I hope this helps, and solves a few questions.

    Farout
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    farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    farout - Thanks for the information. I am beginning to feel better that I made a "good" choice in buying the CRD. I am still keeping my fingers crossed. ;)

    9100 miles and counting on my 2006 CRD
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    farmer52: After talking for 1/2 hour, I felt more assured that we might just not be a "test Market" but that we do have a investment worthy of our money. I felt I wished Dan worked near us. We have a good dealer now, but it bothers me that the tec did not know the transmission with the 462 was the same or that he did not say "I don't know." I intend to run this until it wont run no more. I do feel better, but feelings don't make the payments. We have more confidence now than before.

    Farout
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    farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    farout - I am only two (2) hours from Toledo. I will definitely keep this dealer in my book for future reference. I just hope if and when I have a problem that I can drive it to Toledo. Thanks again for the research!
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    kphoustonkphouston Member Posts: 15
    Farout, Thanks for the research.
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    winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Outstanding information!

    You speak of "early build" CRDs. What does your source consider to be an early build?
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    winter2: All I can say is I asked if my June 14,05 was considered a early build and Dan said no. I could only guess maybe Jan. to may? Only a stab in the dark on my part.

    Farout
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    farmer52: Yark is one of the most knowledgeable dealers you will find. They sold more than 45 CRD's and Dan works there and in the factory on a loan out basis as I understand him. I drive 55 minuets to go to the dealer I go to, other than fuel and time it seems to me it would be well worth your while. Just a disclaimer, I don't have any connections at Yark and know no one there. I also do not own any DCX stock. And I think employee pricing is not as good as the $3,000 rebate I got last year.

    Farout
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    I was on a automotive web site and went to Jeep Crd. There in print was my exact words and some others. No sourse was stated.

    Farout
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sure you weren't at Edmunds.com? Recent messages from these discussions are posted around the site, like on the Liberty Reviews & Specs page.
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    faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    steve:yes I think that's where is was..thank you.
    Farout
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    zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Farout, sounds like you hit the jackpot. A lot of very useful information. Hopefully the end of EGR failures is in sight.

    One comment on the biodiesel issue though. DCX has actively promoted the factory fill of B5 in these as a big environmental plus, and Zetsche is constantly talking about not only diesel but biodiesel. I think it is beyond sleazy if they are actually inspecting fuel pumps before honoring warranty claims and rejecting anything that shows signs of biodiesel use. How would B10 be detectably different in pump wear than B5? I can tell you DCX will get the breach of contract and bad faith lawsuit from hell if I have a pump failure and they try to dishonor the warranty.

    One caveat - if a manufacturer can prove bad fuel was the problem, they may get out of a warranty obligation on that basis. The emphasis is on prove. I have kept every fuel receipt since purchasing my CRD so that in such case I can sue both DCX and the stations where I buy fuel (90% of the time this is one of three stations) and let them fight it out. When two defendants fight, the plaintiff usually wins. Others might want to keep their receipts too.
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    ungnungn Member Posts: 19
    Jan 15,07 and is the MB 3.0V-6 turbo diesel Bluetec. The power is less (I did not get less than what?) But a proven engine with more emissions than before.

    I was reading some pitches by cummins and others on '07 and newer Diesels and it apears they need to detune them a little to meet the stricter particulate regs.

    What is weird is the regs are based on weight, so a 6200lb GVW vehicle was a second quicker than a 6000lb GVW vehicle from 0-60 (due to tighter emissions for the lighter vehicle).

    This will open a huge market for the aftermarket, when everybody and their brother is driving Diesels... which won't be too long from now.

    Cummins was offering a 4.2L V6 and a 5.6L V8 Diesel to DCX. We'll see who end up with them (It may be Nissan or someone else if DCX goes with in house motors)
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    eebroeebro Member Posts: 80
    And mine makes only right turns.

    Just had TSB 18-023-06 applied to address the continually present shudder that appears at shift points ~55 mph and 65 mph after moderate accel to those points. I've also noticed that until this TSB application, the acceleration hesitation from 0 to X (pedal-to-the-metal) was heavily pronounced requiring an inordinate amount of time (far greater than the spin-up time of the VGT in an effort to potentially address an emissions requirement across the gamut of acceleration profiles). Acceleration and xmission valve-body actuation seem smoother, as well. The "I'm totally lost" response of the tranny after some complex turns and pedal applications in stop-and-go traffic is all but gone.

    I have neither in-depth evaluation of the differences experienced through the application of the new TSB nor any conclusion on the reduction of the shudder. I'll apprise the group after more time in the saddle.

    Farout, good info on the 545. Truth be told, I searched diligently for the origin of the tranny and was unable to find a single piece on an alternate DCX 4-speed (being that the 45-RFE is that 4 speed) or on the 5-speed 545-RFE counterpart dubbed the "462". I have the overview design papers for both RFE trannies from Chrysler and also own a 2000 and 2001 GC with 545RFE and 42RLE, respectively, so I'm familiar with contemporary Jeep drivetrains (sans the Compass CVT). Keep us sharp.

    Jones
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    whlpnywhlpny Member Posts: 10
    On occasion, my o6 seems to have what I call a miss type feeling. I wouldn't call it a shudder- but is this what you guys are referring to- it only happens after acceleration to 50- 60 or after passing. Its right after letting off the throttle and returning to normal speed-when passing- or just getting to speed when accelerating. Its about 3 or so misses then all is well. They are ever so slight. Its not everytime either. Hot or cold seems the same. I kinda thought maybe it was the first tank or 2 of diesel, but now am wondering if this is the shudder??

    Bob
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    siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Thanks for going the extra mile, Farout. Recall, my first guess was that the 462 RFE was the 545 RFE with a different bell housing to mate with the VM Motori engine. That would make it the same transmission but different.
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    caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Bob, the ECU stops charging the battery and turns off the a/c when we accelerate according to the Bosch training manual. When we attain our cruising speed the system drives the a/c again and the generator is excited to charge the battery.
    You can feel this when going up a long hill by leaving your hand in front of an air vent. Once at the top of the hill if you remain at the same speed you can feel the air temperature getting cooler.
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    prairiegirlprairiegirl Member Posts: 21
    Bob, my 06 (built Feb) has the same little shudder. Has done it about 5/6 times now. I have 3500 on it so it's not the 1st tank of gas. No engine light, nothing else out of the ordinary - just a little shudder.
    PrairieGirl
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    prairiegirlprairiegirl Member Posts: 21
    Hey y'all - does anyone else have a problem with the rear speakers. Mine don't work - if they are there!
    PrairieGirl
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    eebroeebro Member Posts: 80
    Mine is 02/2006 build as well. I'm also aware of the a/c clutch reingagement periods and note its being considerably less pronounced and more one-shot in nature. This shudder is more like a lag/accel, lag/accel in the sub 50 ms range that persists until I either coast out of 4th/5th or hammer the gas again. Vehicle displacement from the shake is great enough for me to surmise it is drivetrain, and because the engine maintains its tambre, it must be valve-body actuation or torque converter lockup queing problems.

    Jones
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    jc7349jc7349 Member Posts: 17
    Have you received the parts yet?
    I'm still waiting.
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