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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Goodcrd,
    Good questions I cannot answer. You obviously know alot more about this than I do. I will be glad to share any of the info I have on the vehicle to those who are interested. Best bet would be to call Battlefield Jeep in Charlottesville VA and talk to them if you really want to know.
  • new2dieselnew2diesel Member Posts: 148
    Farout,
    Last post on this board unless someone asks me a question. Disposing of my Jeep was not what I wanted. What I wanted is what everyone on this board wants at some level - reliable, economical, 4x4 transportation. I thought I had a great vehicle that I could drive for many many years and many many miles - thats why I bought it. In 9 months, my vehicle proved not to be the case. To say I wanted that is nuts.

    I'm sorry if you think I am "bleeding" all over the board. You did ask me what happened and all I have done all along is present FACTS and my personal opinion. People who are making buying decisions need and deserve this information. This board is not designed to be soley a Jeep Liberty love fest. I am SURE there are quite a few on this board who secretly wish they had known what they now know before they bought their CRD. I wish I did. I have no feelings to "work out" and I no longer have any connection to this board - so I will go hang out on another board which discusses my replacement vehicle. Just remember, my abscence doesn't change the truth about what I have experienced. It also doesn't change the reality of this vehicle. It only allows those who wish to live in euphoric denial an easier time of doing just that.

    As for me - I have taken lemons and made lemonaide! :lemon:

    New2diesel - out.
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    I received my recall notice on Thursday. Anyone have this recall done on their CRD? If so, did it make a difference in the driveability, power, fuel mileage, etc.? Should I make an appointment to have this done to my CRD (build 3/06) or wait? TIA
  • banshee1banshee1 Member Posts: 12
    You sat there and idled for 45 minutes? No wonder your'e having egr problems. Whoever said you can idle a diesel for long periods of time is full of crap. Most likely the egr valve got plugged shut.
  • banshee1banshee1 Member Posts: 12
    How about a 8mm hex drive?
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    banshee1: I plead ignorance, why is it a bad idea to let our CRD idel? I have seem diesel trucks idel for a full night and then some. No joke, so could you answer my question?

    Farout
  • vtdogvtdog Member Posts: 163
    New:
    All I can tell you is this. If your tale of woe is true than shame on both you and the dealer. You for letting it get out of hand and go 40+ days and the dealer for jerking you around.

    I have had mine now since 4/05 with 33k miles. Only 1 repair beyond maint at 10k (egr). I just finished a 1200 mile fishing trip to northern Quebec which included much driving on dirt roads with big demand on tranny due to steep slippery hills, loose dirt,mud, etc. MPG for the "dirt" portion of the trip (300 mi using full time 4wd) was 22. MPG on hi-way to/from average was 25.5 @ 75mph+/-.

    The bottom line: I hope you and your reliable Hundai are very happy together.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    Large older diesel powered trucks and buses used to idle for long time periods because they were harder to get started. If your engine was older and losing compression you didn't want to run the risk of not being able to start it again. Lets say it had an Air starter. You only had a limited supply of air to get the engine started. Maybe one or two chances before you ran out of air from your starter tank. This air was replaced once the engine's air compressor recharged the starter tank. But the engine had to be running to drive the air compressor. Now if it was an electric starter again you didn't want to run down your batteries specially in cold weather where the batteries don't perform as well. An 8.5 liter Detriot uses about 1 gallon for every twenty minutes it idles so every hour it is running you use 3 gallons of fuel. Say ten bucks. Most large buses and trucks hold at least 100 gallons per tank. So it is cheaper to just let the engine idle then pay for a service truck to come out and get you started again. Most newer diesels have ether injection systems to help get them started in the cold. But trying to teach old drivers new habits is difficult. But the police are giving drivers tickets if they catch these vehicles idling unattended or parked and idling for more then 3 minutes in most urban areas today. As long as the charging system and batteries are maintained and in good condition these vehicles don't need to idle. Idling diesel engines with cat converters for extended periods of time will cause soot to build up. This soot shouldn't damage the EGR valve but will cause excessive back pressure if not removed. Some cats just heat up and get blown out with increased exhaust pressure. Some other units must be disassembled and cleaned out. And turbos today don't need to cool down unless you were operating it under a heavy load just before shutting it down. Idling the CRD just waists fuel, doesn't hurt anything, just waists fuel.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I have a friend who bought a Dodge mini van. He drove it 96,000 miles in the city only leaving town twice. Once to go 50 miles and once to go 10 miles (company car, otherwise). He loved it until the transmission started shifting clunky - swore he would never buy another Chrysler product.

    He bought a Hyundai Santafee and it started shifting clunky after less than 2 years and 14,000 miles. He has remained quiet about the result. I rode in it recently and I shifts like a new one. ;)
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Saberia.... I have the L. edition with the toe package my tranny is not the 545 or 535 is the big one. Is the tranny problem only on the 545, ask you this because i never had any problem with mine. The CRD works good I only have over 5k and is 6-o5 build.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    goodcrd: Thanks for the detailed information. I am not able to cope physically with high humidity and heat. So from mid May to end of Sept. I sometimes stay in the Jeep with the air on while my wife shops etc. It has been an hour to an hour and a half that the engine has run with the air on. Never has the temp ever moved beyond the half way point. This is the same as I have done with any vehicle we have owned for the last 11 years since I was medically retired.
    On our Dodge Dakota the passenger floor board, over the CAT would get rather warm, but not so hot to touch. The very worst vehicle we ever owned for overheating was a 1987 Merc. Topaz. The engine over heated just driving in town with the air on. But every dcx vehicle has had excellent air. and was really cool.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    farmer52: What's the recall for? I got a recall this week for them to program so other than DCX computers could read the output information from the computer on board. I am in no big hurry to get that done.
    Have you got any of the ULSD your way yet? I filled up two days a go, and can't notice anything different at all. That's good! Diesel is now as low as $2.899 to $3.199 here, gas is $2.449. I will bet the big trucking companies are really burnt over this pricing. If they are not I sure am.

    Farout
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The soon-to-be-launched and much-hyped Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec has reportedly failed to meet emissions criteria in the important states of California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont."

    New Mercedes Diesels Ruled Illegal in Five Key States (Inside Line)
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    Don't sweat it. You won't damage your CRD with what your doing. Diesel engines run cooler then Gas because a great deal of the heat it creates goes into igniting the fuel. The only time you need to pay attention to the temperature gauge is when putting this little engine under a heavy extended load. Like towing in traffic or pulling a trailer up a long steep hill. Sitting at idle with the trans in neutral will actually cool the trans and the engine as long as the cooling system is working correctly. This is why earlier I recommended adding a trans cooler with an electric fan when towing. Some of the equipment I care for are equiped with Hydraulic radiator fan drive motors. This system has a fluid cooler with a fluid temperature sensor to control the electric fan attached to this Hydraulic (ATF) fluid cooler for the hydraulic system.
    Gas engines run hot. They don't use the heat from combustion to ignite the fuel. And when your air to fuel mix goes too lean it creates even more heat. This will also happen if the EGR valve on a gas engine stays closed. The exhaust gas going into the combustion chamber lowers the combustion temp which lowers the NOX gases created.
    By the way I don't like fords. Like Chrysler, GM, and Toyota. Honda is Ok. Too expensive for all the hype.
    I got carried away on a tangent. Just "blow the CRD's nose" as others have described and your Cat should clear any soot you've built up from idling so long.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Steve: Wow! This is NOT good news for DCX! I can't believe that DCX had no idea it would not pass. The designers just didn't test this for the first time the day this test took place. This has all the looks of a rush to production, again, in my laymans humble opinion that is.
    This gives more favor to my judgment that those of us who bought a CRD were in fact paying to be a "test market" for DCX. Even so I do like our CRD, but we should be given something for our paying to drive a real world "test market" research for DCX.
    In the USA vehicle competition for large numbers in development of vehicles the public wants, forces a rush to production, to beat other manufactures in the latest, newest, fastest, sexiest vehicle of the month. This is not only an endless chase, but just may put us all at risk.
    In a another view this is pure hedonism. The cycle of never being satisfied with what we have. When you consider that a vehicle is perhaps the second largest purchase we are likely to make, and we are being told over and over that the latest vehicle we bought a year ago, is not as up to date, safe, or as sexy, and no longer will we be the envy of our neighborhood. The pressure to be discontented with everything we own, and to replace it with the very latest and best, now available, is the very thing that runs much of our economy. Might I also suggest that feeling discontented spreads to other areas of our life and eats away like a cancer. Perhaps what we need is to put a higher value on holding on to our "things" until they ware out. We would perhaps save more money, natural resources, and be able to spend more on our family etc.

    Farout
  • arvmanarvman Member Posts: 95
    Hello all.I had a minor fault pop up with the "airflow control valve" waited 2 weeks for the part then the day it went in they had to order a gasket.It was in the next day but I've already taken a day off to get into the shop.I haven't rescheduled out of sheer annoyance.Apparently they use a "just in time parts service"Hasn't been just in time for me yet.The tec is good but only as good as the part system.I don't think it does any good to complain,this is imposed from on high.If anyone from DCX is reading this,tell your higher ups to get their act together.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    goodcrd: You clearly know much about diesel and gas engines. I know a little more than the basics. I do NOT do any vehicle maintenance, I take it all to the dealer. This saves me lots of embarrassment and humiliation. Because when I get a wrench in my hands my thinking gets disrupted, and my old sinful nature takes over. I become the "Incredible Hulk" and my mouth utters things I thought I had left behind after serving in the Navy.....Blush.
    After almost a year and 19,000 miles I am really feeling the CRD is dependable, and unless something unforeseen happens it should last a good long time. At one time I was very discouraged by, what seemed like so many problems others were having in this forum, and I feared we had made a bad choice. I have since tried to encourage with positive feedback rather than add to their issues. We all need some encouragement when we feel rather low.
    We have been looking at Travel Trailers. A 5,000 Lb limit is not very much, and only a few choices are in the 3,200 range when dry or empty weight. Someone on this forum bought a Zoom, and I wish I remembered who because I have some questions about the Zoom. Anyone remember who it was?
    Well goodcrd, thanks for the post.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    arvman: I encourage you to let the "higher ups" know what has happened. Only when "they" see parts are a problem will things improve. Only when people voice their frustration will "they" know"
    Call DCX at 800-992-1997, that's what they are there for.
    YOU GO MAN!

    Farout
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    Farout - it says "Emissions Recall F31, Reprogram TCM for Aftermarket Scan Tool". I am like you, I am in no hurry to have this done if it does not improve the driveability, etc.

    Diesel fuel FINALLY dropped to $2.959 at BP. It was $3.049 since gas was $3. Regular gas is now $2.279. Looks like EPA and the oil companies are driving more nails in the "Diesel Engine" coffin! :mad:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I found the "original" Zoom post with the Search This Discussion tool:

    zoomy2, "Jeep Liberty Diesel" #7141, 30 Jul 2006 4:18 pm

    As far as the diesel issue, I have to go with the last blurb in the story - "Sooner or later, it's got to work — Mercedes isn't the only one desperate to get modern diesels, so popular in Europe, into the U.S."

    Re satisfaction, I'm pretty happy with our '97 and our '99. I can tolerate going to the dealer about once a decade for a new car (the '97 was picked up used 5 years ago). It's tough sometimes reading about all the excitement over new cars on the various forums here, but I get a pretty good buzz over driving them forever, especially since it's been two decades since I've had a car payment - those things really make me discontent, LOL.
  • arvmanarvman Member Posts: 95
    Thank's farout.Guess I'm gonna have to make the appointment soon and get this rectified.The wife is starting to lose patience with all these little issues and I don't think anyone wants to hear from her when she get's miffed.On second thought,maybe I'll set her loose on them,heh heh heh.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    New, I don't expect a response, but do want to say thanks for all the info you've posted. It's alarming and unpleasant to hear, but I think it's good to know about. Good luck with your new vehicle. Wish me luck that my CRD doesn't have the problems yours did!
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    I question whether this story was written by someone who understands the situation. I have never seen any claim that Bluetec was supposed to meet California emissions without using AdBlue (urea liquid), and my understanding is that the 2007 models sold in the US were not intended to use AdBlue. (There is supposedly an EPA problem with requiring owners to refill the AdBlue tank.) So it appears to me that this story simply reflects what had been anticipated and no surprise to DCX.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Steve: this was service above and beyond the call of duty! Well done, and thank you. I was in hopes that the person was still active in the forum.
    I have looked at these Zoom TTs and they are very well made, and there are a couple of other travel trailer companies that make light weight TTs like the Zoom.
    Retirement is not the best time to be buying vehicles, we think getting the longest ride out of a vehicle is kind of like a game to see how far it will go. With good care we now have 190,000 miles on our 1996 Dodge Neon Highline. Same original engine, 3rd Transmission, last put in at 85,000 (Chrysler rebuilt). I think if it continues like I think it might 220,000 might be achievable. Now that the Neon is older I change the oil and filter more often, like every 3,000 miles tops. We too dislike payments.

    Farout
  • thstrangerthstranger Member Posts: 60
    Farout,
    Hey Gee, have ya looked at the "Casita" travel trailer yet ? Maybe even the "Fun Finder" travel trailer ?? Hope this gives ya some more ideas !!!
    Later, Skeeter
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This earlier story mentions AdBlue as a way to get even more nitrogen oxide out of tailpipe emissions but it sounds like MB intended for the Bluetec engine to meet 50 state standards without it.

    2007 Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec & Vision GL320 Bluetec Concept

    Here's a different story that talks about SUVs (like the Jeep Grand Cherokee) using the Vision version of the Bluetec with the AdBlue system.

    I think it gets confusing because DC uses "BLUETEC as a term to refer to a combination of technologies for passenger cars and light trucks to reduce all relevant emissions. Components will vary with the vehicle." (Green Car Congress)

    Hopefully there will be more details to come as the smoke clears on this one.
  • zoomy2zoomy2 Member Posts: 50
    Farout,

    I'm the one with the Zoom 718FD travel trailer. I looked at the others Fun Finder, Castia, QUE and many others, but the Aerolite Zoom and it's sister Scamper ECO were better made. Our's empty weights in a 3033#, it has the option list except for the outdoor speakers.

    Using dead weight hitch (250# tounge wgt) with a friction anti-sway stabilizer. I get 15.4 - 16.5 mpg pulling with my CRD, driving around 60mph, and I'm saving to replace those Goodyear ST tires with a set of Falkin 235-70R16 load range C as the diameter is only .2" shorter then the Goodyears. This will slightly increase the pulling power.

    I tow in OD and it holds, all but on grades. I have 25K on my CRD and I have had it for a year. Getting ready to change the fuel filter and transmission filters (both) and fluid at next oil-filter change.

    zoomy :shades:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    If they can meet the U.S. emissions requirements in all fifty states while running them on EU diesel fuel, then the problem is our diesel fuel.

    There is not a single MB dealer I have not spoken with that has told me that the MB diesels run so much quieter and smoother on the fill that they come with. Once the U.S. owner uses several tanks of domestic fuel, they are noisier, rougher, and smokier.

    If you wonder why these cars did not pass in those five states, now you have the answer. :mad:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The Blue Tec in this article is not the true version. Some where I read that these diesels would not be 50 state emissions certified.

    I believe that the cars using the AdBlue liquid will be certified for all fifty states but not be available here until MY 2008 or 2009. The hold up right now is our wonderful EPA. They have a problem with the fact that these diesels that use the liquid, AdBlue, will continue to run even when the AdBlue tank is empty. The other (EPA) issue is allowing the public to handle this benign liquid.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    And another issue is whether people are going to put up with going to the dealer to add the AdBlue (sounds like something for the tank in your bathroom and the fact that it's made from urea doesn't help any :P ).

    I thought I read that consumption is around 6 ounces for every 1,000 miles - the findadblue.com site says it's about 1.5 litres per 100 km.

    I'm a bit lax about maintenance; having to add AdBlue occasionally to a separate tank, not to mention all the additives some of you CRD owners use, would bug me. I can barely keep up with checking the oil and tire pressures now and then.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    I'm sure our dirty fuel is a big part of it, but I have high hopes for our new ULSD. As I've posted my CRD has been mysteriously running much smoother and quieter on the last two tankfuls - it almost doesn't sound like a diesel now, except at low speed/light throttle acceleration. The drop in sulfur content is huge and if there's an accompanying cetane boost it will be a major improvement.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    I cannot imagine refilling as much AdBlue as 1.5L/100km would be. If consumption is really that high then they should forget about bringing it here. All the other diesel manufacturers are finding ways to meet 2007 emissions without resorting to urea injection (which is the purpose of AdBlue).

    I also think we should lobby Congress to freeze diesel emissions requirements at the 2006 level, but that's another issue.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's the paragraph I found:

    "As a rough rule, average AdBlue consumption will be about 5% of diesel use. Therefore for motorway driving you will use about 1.5 litres per 100 km."

    AdBlue Information...
  • anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    Hi! I second that! The EPA should hold off until the Fed gives us the fuel that will make lower emissions possible.

    We are being dictated to by those that are obligated to serve us!

    One of "We The People" LK

    P.S. Urea is BS! It's like putting "fix a flat" in a tire.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Lost poster stated he had tire feathering after a June lower ball joint replacement. Same thing here. July 3rd ball joint replacement. Paid off road shop "Mike's" to do a good alignment to save the Alenza's. Just a heads up when you get your new ball joints. New issue tonight - right rear grinding - bearings, e brake hardware(again?), whatever - happy labor day to me tomorrow morning. Add to the list for the F31 flash appointment on thursday - want it up to snuff if we can't wait for the new silverado. Thank you new2diesel for all your updates. Maybe the bell does toll for everyone. Hope you all can have a happy labor day.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Last night needed to pass on the interstate. Pedal down, rpms to redline, where's the speed increase. A few shudders today before the grinding noise. Asked for the new tranny parts when setting up appointment. No can do - need to fail. If failure results, as others have posted, in immediate cessation of forward movement, I don't want my better half in this thing. If the failure is as reported, somebody's head needs to roll.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Dirty in the sense of having dirt in it is not the issue. The problem with domestic diesel is that it is viewed as an industrial fuel in this country and not like gasoline which is made to far stricter standards. If gasoline were made to the same appalling standards as diesel fuel, I would guarantee you that heads at that refinery/oil company would roll and the EPA, DOT and every other environmental organization would be all over that oil company.

    As to the way your CRD is running, it looks like you have gotten hold of some S15 (ULSD). I to have noticed that the engine is smoother with less knocking and nailing. Also, there is far less soot when I "blow the EGR's nose". I am still adding cetane improver and detergent to each tankful so that the cetane is at least 48 to 50 if not higher.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The way it appears, there seems to be two levels of BlueTec, one that does not use AdBlue and the other that does.

    I think that the refiners will have to do a better job of making diesel fuel and possibly add some chemicals that improve the fuel so it burns more cleanly.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The AdBlue system happens to be on heavy trucks only at this time. If it is applied to diesels put in cars or into SUVs like my CRD, I think we can expect the consumption of AdBlue to be less than the 5% you quote.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Lost poster stated he had tire feathering after a June lower ball joint replacement.

    I am going to guess that the dealer did a poor job aligning the from end after replacing the ball joints. That dealer should loose their franchise from DCX.

    Poor you Dave. Looks like you got a bad CRD or you have unbelievably bad luck. Good luck with your new set of wheels.

    I have nearly 13K miles on my CRD and it is going strong. Will be getting an oil change in about 1.5K miles. I am on a 5K oil change schedule whether it needs it or not. Have not seen any recall notice yet for ball joints.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Winter, to avoid any doubt, I'm aware that dirt (i.e. solid powdery materials which don't burn) is not the problem; I was using that term generically for the high sulfur, unknown cetane fuel that we typically get at truckstops and cheaper gas stations here. In some states, including my Michigan, there are a decent number of stations selling premium diesel that is a better fuel. In other places - such as apparently the part of Missouri where farout lives - you don't have that option.

    The really curious thing about my CRD is that I'm seeing as much soot as ever on hard acceleration, even though the engine is otherwise running like a gem and even smelling better. Perhaps I just managed to blow out accumulated soot in the exhaust system - I'll be watching to see if soot on acceleration decreases. So far, both when the CRD was new and lately on what may be ULSD, I get no visible soot on acceleration up to about 60-70% throttle, but huge clouds on really hard acceleration, enough that it's like the exhaust of an older semi. It hasn't been a problem but is entertaining, especially as I don't always know in advance when the CRD is going to do its squid impression.
  • selby6selby6 Member Posts: 3
    I have a 2006 Libby CRD and I've checked the speedometer against a GPS device and found that it reads 7% too fast at all speeds. I'm on a 39 month lease so that could mean that I end up paying for over 3,000 extra miles that I didn't use!! Has anyone else had this problen and can the speedometer/odometer be adjusted? Thanks!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You're right - I was skipping around so much looking for info I overlooked the heavy truck stuff. Here's a 1 to 3 percent quote from that Green Car Congress site in reference to passenger cars:

    "The company counters that since an average of around 0.1 liters per 100 km (2,352.15 mpg of AdBlue or 1 to 3 percent of diesel consumption) is all that is required, the tank can be designed so that it only needs to be refilled when service staff are carrying out regular, scheduled maintenance." link

    There's probably more over in the Diesels in the News discussion.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Aside from any intrinsic errors of the GPS device, it would be measuring straight line distance as opposed to actual ground miles (including vertical displacements and roadway curvature). This means that your GPS speed calculation will likely be too low.

    To make the point, imagine driving a 1 mile circuit and returning to your starting point. GPS will tell you have traversed 0 miles but your odometer will indicate something quite different. It would be better to use the mileposts and a stopwatch.

    tidester, host
  • farmer52farmer52 Member Posts: 61
    Selby6 - Is it your speedometer or odometer (or both) that read too fast? The speedometer in my 06 CRD reads about 3 mph fast (68mph indicated versus 65mph actual) but the odometer is about 5% slow (0.945 miles indicated per 1 mile actual). There have been a few posts on this subject. Farout posted that he had his dealer correct the speedometer. I do not think there is anything you can do about the odometer independent of the speedometer. Slowing the speedometer reading will slow the odometer or vice versa. Changing tire size will correct the errors too but that is expensive unless you need tires.

    Tidester makes a good suggestion, use a measured distance and stopwatch. Use an interstate where traffic is light and relatively flat, set the cruise, and drive at least 5 miles. The more miles you drive/measure, the more accurate your measurement. Good luck!
  • tony67sstony67ss Member Posts: 6
    hello all and thanks in advance.
    I am considering a 2006 Liberty LTD, CRD.
    I am overseas military and they have one avbl. for me at a reasonable price--I think--$25,000. this includes mil discount, tax free, and shipment overseas. This has sunroof, etc...
    Well, after reading the posts, I am worried about a couple things..
    1) Future support--I see engine is being discontinued..That has some alarms going off in my head. Although our state of Florida will register just about anything.
    2) Just need an honest opinion. Buying this is a big deal of course, and I drove it and liked it, just worried about a) the model-CRD, as far as future emissions-will I even be able to register it next year.

    and 3) future support/issues/resale..
    All opinions will be taken seriously, and I have about 2 days to decide here.
    Thanks in advance,
    Tony
  • agresearchagresearch Member Posts: 5
    This is totally an incorrect statement. The GPS system will accurately measure the distance traveled regardless of the shape of the trip. The modern GPS systems are capable of measuring speed, elevation and distance extremely accurately.

    Agresearch
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    July 3rd took the better half to see the crd on the rack - service manager says you can have it today after alignment - mechanic pulls up with the crd and says he just completed a test drive and we are good to go.

    Alignment is what I thought too. Rememeber posts about how the jeep front is higher after the ball joint replacement - our front end also was higher in front so I was not worried. Mike's mechanic moved front tires to back and explained the geometry he found at all four corners. Like I said, just a heads up.

    You're right, all manufacturers make some bad ones, get some bad parts. Some say the malibu is crap, we have been most fortunate with ours. Keep us posted on your 20k and 30k marks and tell us if you get crap diesel like some of us have to live with. Dealers are begging customers to take full size diesel trucks.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Remember a year ago?, a woman on the liberty problems here said she couldn't back up her driveway. Well according to a lost poster, did we learn that it is a known issue to dcx - pick up tube and pan design? - haven't tried it - don't have to drive up our driveway, let alone back it in. Just too many issues. Things don't just happen to only one.
  • pttrilliumpttrillium Member Posts: 62
    I tend to look on the positive side of things and with rare exceptions, things turn out that way.

    1. Future parts: Manufacturers are required to stock replacement parts for I think 9 years after a model is discontinued. I owned a Merkur XR4ti (loved it) and had no trouble getting parts for it. I bought it new in 1986 and sold it in 1994. Rarely is it engine stuff that goes wrong, it's usually something like a window lift or brake problem or some weird computer thing. Keep in mind that even with the diesel engine, the vast quantity of parts for the Liberty are the same as on the gas engine version. And there are zillions on the road. Getting a new injector in 2012 won't be the problem you might imagine.
    2. I don't know enough about Florida law but federally, if something complies with the law in 2006 then it is held to 2006 standards. If you want to register a 2006 vehicle in 2009 they can't hold you to 2009 standards.
    3. Look up the posts on resale on this board and others. The actual numbers are positive for a diesel holding it's value better than a gasser. However, the resale on Libertys isn't as good as say, a Honda. Future support? Based on the issues on this board, it appears as if this varies by dealer. I would say that the variance between Jeep dealers is breathtakingly wide and some are absolutely horrible while others are competent. I think the fact that DCX has to certify that some are five star dealerships is evidence of a really bad business problem they have and some of these guys don't deserve to be selling cars at all. Compare this with the standards Acura dealers are held to and you get a picture for what DCX is up against. Choose your dealer carefully and don't give your subsequent service business to a crummy one.

    The drivetrain warranty is longer than the regular warranty, I believe 100,000 miles on the diesel engine on the 2006 ones. So why worry?

    By 2008-9 the Liberty won't seem as much an oddity. We are going to see CRD diesels (not the VM Motori engine-they'll be Mercedes derived, but badged CRDs nonetheless) in Grand Cherokees and also the Commander. The Liberty won't seem weird at all, just ahead of it's time by 24 months. Mercedes will reintroduce diesel in more vehicles and we'll see more from BMW and Audi before 2010. While the country won't suddenly go diesel, about 10-15 percent could be that way by 2010. SUVs are ideal for Clean Diesel engines, the power bump you get on the low end makes a diesel SUV much more fun to drive than a gasser, IMHO. Offroad performance with all that low end torque is r e a l l y f u n.

    I don't believe the Liberty is a white elephant. I would like to know what other people think!! Disagree with me, but tell me why, I'd like to be educated as much as anyone else here, that's why I keep reading.

    Good luck with your decision.

    :)
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