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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Nescosmo, I use Rotella 5W-40 and I also have the same leak. The truck is in the shop for 60,000 miles service and needed replacement of the front and rear differential input shaft seals (lip rings). Over here both differentials, transfer case and tranny are not flushed, they keep their original oil for the life of the truck. The timing belt takes 8 hours to replace and not 6 as quoted by Chrysler. So, it seems this complete fluid change service is a kind of agreement between the service people and Chrysler for the customer to pay undue labor. I even had to ask for replacement of the coolant :sick:
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    I've used Rotella-T for at least 8-9000 miles of my CRD experience, including the current fill, and have no leaks. And I park on clean concrete so I would know if I did have a leak. I wonder if the seals are defective on some engines and you two just have had a coincidence? Based on all I've read, there is not much chemical difference between Mobil 1 synthetic and Rotella-T.

    Here, our differentials and transfer case don't need any fluid changes on the "normal" schedule, but of course 99% of US driving is supposedly "severe". But as for the coolant, I think that's supposed to last 5 years or 100,000 miles even on the severe schedule (I know that's the rating for our 2006 Dodge Ram, I would have to check for the CRD).
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    The rear main seal on my CRD has an intermittent leak. When I drive it and park it in the garage there is no leak. When my wife drives it and parks it in the garage there is a small spot of oil on the floor. I drive it easy and she prefers to over throttle the engine and produce black smoke. Obviously, driving this CRD hard creates transient pressure inside the crankcase putting a little oil past the rear main seal. Discussions with her concerning the benefits of driving the CRD easy have produced less than gratifying results and it’s not on my agenda to bring it up again.
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    you know the old saying if a married man is talking to himself in the woods he is still wrong have a nice day
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    Siberia, I think that's very prudent as to marital discussions. I will just note that I drive moderately most of the time but floor it every other day for whatever reason and still have no leak. I'm at 35,500 miles and haven't been super on maintenance, though I have kept up with oil changes and always used synthetic (Rotella-T when I do it myself, presumably Mobil 1 0W-40 when the stealership has done it). Maybe I got lucky and mine has a tighter seal than others. It certainly seems there is some variation in the build quality and problem areas on these!
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    I do not know if changing the differential oil will make any difference in the MPG. My driving is like a girl in love driving. If I ever replace the diff. oil I wil use Royal Purple and I seen some where a different cover, a better cover for the differential, will like to get it( hope I fing it some where in the forum)wander if the cover will void the warranty.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    A little thing about seals the leak or become wet with oil. If you park it on an incline causing the oil level to become higher then the seal they tend to seep and become wet. Always try to park on level surfaces.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    How much does it cost to change the engine? Do you know?
    If you buy it directly from VM, 4500 Euros (found on the web, confirmed by Jeep tech). Buy it from Chrysler it's 7000 Euros, have it installed it's 12,000 Euros plus 19.6% tax. This is almost the list price of the truck in the US.
    Service bill comes to USD 2100 at 60,000 miles :mad:
    I wonder how much people pay for a Grand Cherokee? Perhaps they have to leave the house keys :shades:
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    Caribou I think all that euro/dollar exchange rate stuff has gone to your head. Sticker price of a CRD Sport in the US was around $25,000. I know the exchange rate is bad, but it is isn't 2.1:1!!!

    The VM direct price sounds reasonable, I guess. I hope this is purely academic and not a sign of engine life!
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    I have a bad glow plug. Displayed is fault code P1261 that should be a short in glow plug #1. I unplugged the wiring harness to the plugs and measured the resistance at each pin. Three of the plugs are at 1 ohm and one plug is at 0.303 ohm so that is the one that is going bad and throwing the code. I think I can get to glow plug #1 by removing the alternator. However, it may not actually be #1 since the wiring harness is often installed wrong. It makes no difference to the glow plugs only the diagnostics.

    Has anyone changed a glow plug on a CRD? Some makes require a special tool to ream the glow plug hole to clean it out before installing a new plug. Does the VM engine require this? What’s in Vodka that requires it to be charcoal filtered? :surprise:

    There is almost no empty space under the hood of the CRD the size of a human hand. :sick:
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Zachinmi, when you add tax and exchange rate you get to 21,000 USD. The rest of the truck is really, really not expensive ;)
  • I don't know nuttn' about your glow plugs but vodka gets charcoal filtering to remove organic impurities.
  • steve05steve05 Posts: 52
    An '05 CRD Sport was exactly $26830 USD. The sticker, that is. The selling price, well, I REALLY REALLY REALLY beat up a lot of stealerships to get mine and am still amazed at the way the salesmen will cut each others' throat at THE SAME DEALERSHIP for someone's business. I will admit to enjoying watching these guys race to the bottom. I emailled every dealership within 100 miles about their CRDs, then called them to beat them up, then called the same dealerships back minutes apart to hear them "best" another salesmen's price. It was actually a lot of fun (and time consuming, but I was paying myself a lot of money in sticker reduction!) I drove off for $20k. I even got the guy to follow me after the sale and fill the tank. I pushed this sales technique because they never had to sit with me and bicker. I dropped some emails, made a few phone calls, and settled sight unseen for a vehicle I knew more about than the salesman. I expect everyone to make money for their labor, and since I did 99% of the work, the saleman got a very small commission. But he didn't have to do diddly squat to sell it, other than give me the right price. I realized that an '05, even with no miles, was no longer "New" and simply was not afraid to leverage that knowledge against the sticker price. Even with the minor headaches I've had with the little beast, I know I'm still on top of this deal. And I've been reading Diesel Power magazine for awhile, and talking to a lot of diesel truck owners. The support from them is huge. They love to see a small diesel in an SUV and have guided me to many aftermarket establishments that can really make things happen. I have no fear of the warranty expiring. In fact, I'm kind of looking forward to it, so I can make this little diesel really grunt and pull. This little truck will be with me for a long time. In fact, when the EPA warranty runs out (@36K - in 11K miles) I will be converting to a 2 tank SVO system. I can't hardy wait for the next 11k miles to get past. "Bio" and VO were the reason I bought this thing. I now also have an '83 Ranger with a Mazda diesel in it that I already run straight VO in. I'm learning more about common rail direct injected engines every day. And it is very cool to have a diesel powered vehicle. :shades:

    Oh BTW, the stock tires (goodyear ST) - they rated 60th out of 60 tires for an SUV, according to a TireRack Survey. I'm at 25k, pretty much out of sipes, and will be getting either Bridgestone Dueler Revo's or Avon Rangers by months end. I have had no major problems with these tires, but they just gotta go before the next Michigan winter!

    - S
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Glow plug replacement was uneventful. The old plug unscrewed with very little effort and looked like new after wiping the very light coating of soot from the 2.5 centimeter tip with a paper towel. There was no anti-seize on the threads and it was not seized in the head a all. I used a 1/4 inch drive ratchet to remove it and install it. Only a small gray stain on the tip distinguished the old glow plug from the new one. The new plug measured 1.1 ohm resistance and the failed plug was actually open. The wire plugs that push onto the glow plugs do not pull off very easy – it’s just the way they are made.

    http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4842.htm

    Liberty glow plug looks like the one on the right.

    0 250 302 004
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,798
    I could not find the 0 250 302 004 glowplug in the Bosch listing.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Neither could I.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    I read that V M Motori now is owned by GM. That Chrysler is not any longer an owner. GM said they plan on using the engine in some of the US vehicles!
    What is you feelings about this change of owners?
    Our "Green Beast" is still in the hands of DCX, 6 months after our buy back.
    I hope you all are doing well and the CRD keeps on for many many years to come.

    farout
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    Thought I would announce that I have traded in my CRD and purchased a Chevy Suburban to replace it. I had tried to work with my Jeep dealer to either get all problems fixed or to get a buy-back, but they made a weak attempt at fixing and claimed they found nothing while several problems recurred within 2-3 days after their supposed work, and of course they also didn't offer to lift a finger to help on buy back options. I got sick of dealing with problems and worrying about expensive failures that sideline the vehicle for a week or more, and my wife got really, really sick of hearing me complain about the Jeep. So I bit the bullet, accepted a trade-in value of about half what I paid just two years ago, and have a new car.

    The Chevy Suburban is obviously a big step up in both price and size, but I am extremely happy with it. GM is back, big time; I have no doubt that they will be around for many decades to come. I do have some doubts about the new Chrysler LLC, and I also can nearly guarantee that the Jeep dealer I bought from will close its doors within a few years, based on their service and sales.

    I am getting around 17.5 mpg on gasoline in my usual commuting route, vs. 23-24 on diesel with the CRD. I think I am doing the same or better with the Suburban as I would have done with a gasoline Liberty. I realize the vehicles aren't directly comparable so apart from mileage I won't try to compare them.

    I will miss the good mileage and torque of the CRD, but I won't miss its experimental nature, engine noise, diesel pumps, etc. I think it is a basically good vehicle that DCX failed to adequately tune for US emissions and driving conditions, and then dealers didn't know or care how to work on it. I consider the CRD to be essentially abandoned by Chrysler at this point, and unless your dealer has been wonderful I wouldn't count on any future dealer help. Most of the long service visits I had were, as my wife pointed out to me, due to my dealer breaking some part while fixing something (often one of the recalls) for which the essential part had been pre-ordered. So, again, my dealer was a big part of the problem. But in my area there are only two other nearby Jeep dealers, one of which is much smaller and neither of which necessarily sold CRDs or cares about helping me. Since I'm in a GM town there are 10 Chevy dealers in town and another 10 within a short distance, so in the event my dealer doesn't turn out well, I have 19 others to choose from! (Not counting GMC dealers which can also work on the Suburban.)

    Like Farout has done, I intend to keep reading this forum out of curiousity and wish you all the best.
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    Farout- entertaining and timely info. See my post below yours. I think the VM Motori engine is itself fine, but I think DCX screwed up the US market adoption by several things:
    -mating an automatic transmission. If the CRD had been sold with a stick, half the problems never would have existed.
    -DCX's dumb decision to spec 0W-40 oil with a CF rating. I think the CI-4+ oils make a big difference in minimizing EGR and turbo problems, by reducing evaporation and doing a much better job of handling soot.
    -the EGR system. I know it's basically on the Euro market, but I think the tuning of it for the US market didn't go right.
    -engine programming - too tight for emissions and probably wasn't tested enough.

    The VM Motori engine itself doesn't see to be the problem. If GM does proper emissions and tuning work before selling a vehicle with them, they should be fine.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,798
    Let us think about some of the things you have said here.

    In Europe, diesel fuel is better in terms of quality, cleanliness and cetane. Most of the aromatic compounds have also been removed too and the sulfur content of European diesel has been very low for some many years before ULSD appeared here in October 2006. So the CF rated oil would work well in Europe but not here. That is more of a VM Motori issue than a DCX issue. Better quality fuel yields less soot, cleaner burn, etc.

    In Europe, emissions are quickly approaching what we have in the States and the programming they have in Europe is very close to what we have here.

    As to the transmission, I blame DCX here fully. A stouter TC was definitely needed as well as a few other trans parts. A manual trans might have been better but clutches made in the U.S. tend to be a bit weak and would be torn apart by this engine. I destroyed two clutches in my Isuzu diesel and finally was able to obtain a stouter one that lasted much longer than the other two did together.

    Lastly, we have too many dealers who simply do not care.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Winter, when you say "In Europe, emissions are quickly approaching what we have in the States and the programming they have in Europe is very close to what we have here." may not mean it's the ultimate way to go. I questioned the dealer about reliability of newer vehicles and while he was answering me he was interrupted by a customer calling for a tow truck!

    EGR problem... you know...

    My dealer has a telephone book listing 'certified' towers. This is new to me and gets my feet cold :(

    Here is an interesting link showing in detail the common rail technology used in RENAULT engines:
    http://www.renault.com/renault_com/fr/images/imagessynthesem9r_fr_tcm1119-456268- - - .swf

    If you follow the news, you must know that Renault puts tremendous pressure on developers. Unfortunately three of them couldn't face the challenge last year. Do we really need to carry on with such sophistication?
  • zachinmizachinmi Posts: 228
    Winter2, I don't intend to bicker but I suspect the actual specification of the Mobil 1 0W-40 was by DCX rather than by VM Motori. As noted a while ago on here, DCX was already stocking quantities of that oil for gas-engined Mercedes models, so they probably saw a chance to economize on their supply chain. A CI-4+ oil is absolutely better for any diesel with EGR compared to a CF oil, and the CI-4 spec specifically contemplates EGR soot issues while the CF spec doesn't.

    I'd be interested to hear what oil is specified for the Euro market models (Caribou?) and, if different, what VM Motori recommends for similar engines sold in other vehicles.

    I also consider it strange that the owner's manual stated only Mobil 1 in two grades (with 5W-40 as a fallback) and didn't simply state synthetic motor oil meeting CF (or, in my world, CI-4) specifications. This to me indicates either a collaboration with Mobil, to put it very nicely, or a lack of testing and a default option of only authorizing one brand of oil. I am now reading forums on bobistheoilguy quite regularly and based on UOA results Mobil 1, though definitely a quality oil, does not seem to have any edge over several other quality brands.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Zachinmi, I get YACCO VX 600 5W40 every time from the Chrysler dealership. It's the MB 229.3 compliant lubricant.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    caribou1: Greetings friend, this is farout. I often read you many helps to those of us who have had you help in the past and those who still have the CRD.
    After hearing the dealer I use I am of the opinion that the main reason for so many buy backs is the lack of DCX properly giving the proper testing of the polution control systems, and the very limited training given to the dealer tec's.
    farout
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Vm do recommend the 10w-40 oil on all of their 2.5, and 2.8 engines. Now here!!!! in the US we have the money game.

    Nescosmo.....
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Nescosmo, the viscosity range compares to the climate where the engine will be used. Once the engine is warm, it stays within a narrow temperature range and it's mechanical tolerances are calculated for grade 40 oil (in our case).

    VM plant is based where the climate is mild during the winter; grade 10 oil for cold starts is sufficient for their region.

    A grade "zero" oil will remain at this viscosity for a few seconds only during extreme cold starts. This low viscosity reduces the drag effort to start the engine, calls for a smaller battery and starter motor.

    Because cast iron cylinders have smaller thermal expansion than the aluminum alloy pistons, when the engine is at a very low temperature there is greater play between the pistons and cylinders. Thermal contraction also helps the smaller starter by momentarily producing more freedom between components. If one would use a straight W40 here, the benefit of the looser fit would be altered by the effort needed to overcome residual viscosity. We have to keep in mind that battery power is also significantly reduced in cold weather.

    I think the "zero" grade oil really plays it's role by releasing the piston rings to produce compression when cold. This may also be 'the' important oil filtration issue. The piston rings are imprisoned (pinched) in deep grooves that reduce the play (contract) when they are cold in opposition to the pistons with the cylinders.

    All other oil specific features apply.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Hi farout,
    I'm convinced you took the right decision by letting your "Green Beast" go back to where it belongs...

    DC plays sophistication and lost customer confidence over here as well. Who will profit from their attitude? My guess is Asian builders (again) who have the wisdom to observe and keep only the best. I had imagined to eventually replace the engine in case of failure, but I can buy a new small diesel car for the price they ask. This is plain stupid.

    DC is also said to be involved in a scandal concerning European aircraft construction. Just listen to the headlines and watch where they will make their future 'joint-venture' investments ;)

    Would you appreciate Jeep to be built in Asia? I'm sure someone thought about this already. While I was there I saw a few Liberty and Grand Cherokee gassers that were exported from California. One of them was given the name of "Flying Dragon" :shades:
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Caribou1: Oh joy! I looked at all three sights, the first one I think is in French, but a Jeep made in china? This is no laughing matter, this is a huge step in accepting a slave trade nation to build junk.
    I am not sure if I told you we bought a Chrysler Pacifica, a 2007 with the "LIFETIME POWER TRAIN WARRANTY" and we got the Max Care lifetime service contract too. The pacifica is the Touring AWD with the 4. L engine with the 6 speed automatic trans. Believe it or not this gets better MPG than our Jeep Compass did. On a trip we get 24.3 and around our Lake area. The Pacifica is a real quality vehicle. With the AWD we go everywhere the Jeep went and with less bounce. So we are very pleased.... so far.
    I did read that Chrysler will discontinue the Commander, and Compass by 2010, and a good possibility to end the Aspen and the Pacifica. Chrysler says they are too heavy into SUV's and they need a real gas saving vehicle in all three brands.
    With all the flat frontend there seems to be a lot of wind drag to me, what happened to the aero-dynamic gas saving designs? Where does the Hemi fit into global fuel savings? It's not just Chrysler but most all vehicles seem to go for power and speed. With oil at $87. a barrel now I thing our economy is headed for inflation out of control. The 1980's had interest at 215 here for Housing! I hope France is doing better than us.
    Best wishes...

    farout
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,350
    Farout, France is just behind you. In a global economy the first player to call for help lost the game. There is a bit more wealth per person here (less credit) but it's simply a matter of weeks for our economies to crumble. Hold on pal :cry:
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