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Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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Comments

  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    If I may, please allow me to address some of the points you've raised.
    Yes there are "regulars helping people" here and elsewhere. Thanks for them!! They are sincere and objective for the most part. Wwest, as you noted, is a classic example. I applaud what he does, even though I don't always agree.
    Then there are other "regulars" who profess to be "helping people", but come across as always intent on presenting anything Toyota in a very negative way. They do this "regularly" and post very similar messages "regularly", in every Toyota forum in this website. A ton of hyperbole, misinformation, negative cut pastes, etc, accompany many of those "regular's" comments.
    Also note that some of those "regulars" are the ones who routinely tee off very aggressively at anyone who even remotely challenge some of their input.
    As to your assertion about no one trying to "run any doubters off", it happens often, and you know it--it happened just a few posts ago where someone asked a another to "refrain from posting here".
    Re the differences of opinion you say are being expressed here and perhaps aren't warranted. Really user 777, this is a democracy and different perspectives on the same issue are to be expected--and are protected under our constitution. This is an open discussion, and all sides of it are welcome, and all claims are open to interpretation. You should recognize that more than most, if you are as knowledgeable on human behavior you claim to be.
    Re the number of "complaints"at the NHTSA site? It now appears there's more than a little hanky panky happening there, as you may have seen from my post No.994, above. Most of the "complaints" you refer to are evidently fraudulent.
    Re concerned posters "deserving of better treatment"?
    Well, I could agree that some do. Unfortunately, because of efforts by those few (some who you call "regulars") who "regularly" resort to editorializing, rhetoric, and hyperbole to make their point, those poor folks' posts routinely get lost in a morass of misinformation. Some of your "regulars" should accept blame for that when they constantly focus on promoting the problem instead of being part of the solution.
    It's only that kind of "regular" conduct that I take issue with, and my record is clear in that context.
  • shocasershocaser Member Posts: 36
    The articles that I refer to are articles that I read online over a year ago. I cannot remember the article title or what website the article was on. I have not claimed that Lexus admitted to a hesitation to avoid wear and tear. I remember reading an article quoting Lexus as saying something to the effect that the transmission is designed to behave the way that it does to protect the transmission. That is all.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Maybe you did shocaser, but I have trouble with it because there's a ton of hanky panky going on at the NHTSA complaint site. Further, I appreciate your honesty in withdrawing those earlier statements about all those so called "articles" you referred to. They just don't exist. There were some posts saying those things but no such articles.
    Re your decision not to add your VIN No. to an NHTSA complaint. They will probably insist upon it at some point in their investigation. It could become a matter of public record no matter what.

    At this point, I'm very interested in hearing what everyone has to say about fraudulent complaints at NHTSA that Scoti showed us.
  • shocasershocaser Member Posts: 36
    I did not withdraw anything. I stated that I read the articles over a year ago and do not know exactly how to find them. I know they exist because I read them.

    I was going to register a compaint with NHTSA about my car but realized that I did not want a permanent record of a problem with my car by listing the VIN. I think that could be a reason that many people do not list the VIN.

    Look, I am not trying to "bash" Lexus. I have a problem with my Lexus. It is not the only problem, but it is the one that bothers me the most. Why isn't this acceptable?
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this post. You have really hit the nail(s) on the head. Nicely said.
  • loungerlounger Member Posts: 32
    We have an 03 ES 300 and an 05 ES 330. Both cars exhibit the much discussed hesitation.

    I greatly appreciate wwest's theorizing and believe he is on the right track.

    I am looking forward to test driving the new Camry. I bet that Toyota will have made some changes to the way the car drives.

    If you are looking to buy a new or used 02-06 front drive Toyota/Lexus with the 5 speed automatic transmission, make sure to test drive it thoroughly.

    We have learned to live with its quirks. We also own an 03 Mercedes Benz E 320. It has been in the shop for a lot more issues including the electrohydraulic brake (SBC) recalls. That said, the Benz's transmission works much better than the Lexi transmissions. I cannot vouch for the newer MB 7 speed transmission.

    The most annoying thing for me occurs when slowing to a stop but not making a full stop and still traveling about 5 to 10 mph. If I apply the gas pedal in that situation, the car hesitates and then usually gives me a harsh downshift. So I very gently ease onto the gas in that situation to give the transmission time to downshift to 2nd gear. I have had to adapt to the car. My girlfriends 1999 4 cylinder Camry with a 4 speed automatic transmission is a marvel of sophistication when compared to the 5 speed front drive Lexi transmission (at least our two cars).

    I am curious about VW/Audi DSG transmission, which would be my suggestion to test out if you want crisp postitive lightning fast shifts. Don't get mad at Lexus/Toyota if the car is really driving you nuts. Just try something else.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    We also have a 02 ES300 that shows similar hesitation discussed here; it is extremely annoying when doing stop/go or driving at a low speed. We bought it because of the reputation of 2001 or earlier ES300. However, the past performance has no guarantee for the future. The 02 ES300 has a unpredictable transmission, a set of bad brakes (I have the third set of brakes), and rattles here and there. Its CR reliability rating dropped from top to who knows where; it is even less reliable than Hyundai.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    You realize that VINs have many more digits than those shown on the NHTSA site right? Personally, I have 17 digits in the VINs of my vehicles. How about you? Apparently, the site isn't displaying them all.

    I never claimed to be an expert in Systems Engineering nor Human Factors.

    Scoti helps people find relevant information and in a professional manner. He does not bash Toyota. History: perhaps you were around when the Hesitation Forum was started because our hosts didn't want people posting in discrepant forums on the same topic... Then we collectively shot ourselves in the foot by getting it shut down. Scoti has merely been directing people from the other forums to the Hesitation forum, or relevant active forum when they post about their problem. People with the problem are beneficiaries of his efforts.

    I'm sure - and I think this has been written before, the regulars are merely interested in this phenomenon, perhaps for reasons related to systems engineering, human factors, automotive automation, arbitration, desires to provide balance to what they perceive is slanted against one particular manufacturer, or maybe because they own the vehicle and have a problem. I have yet to see a post which is purposefully bashing any particular manufacturer. No doubt, we have seen a few posters with a problem doing some passionate venting.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Sorry I don't believe some of the people are just merely interested in this phenomenon. The nature of the post indicates they have either an axe to grind or some kind of ulterior motive. But you and WWEST are not two of them so chill out.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    But I seem to remember that when I filed a complaint with NHTSA about the spontaneous windshiedl fogging on my 1992 LS400 in about 93 it got listed on the site in multiple "bins", visibility problems, climate control problems and possibly more.

    The multiple listing arose simply because the person at NHTSA wanted it that way to get the widest exposure.

    I could see this one easily being categorized in engine controls/response, transmission controls/response, and throttle control/DBW, provided all of those exist in some form or another.
  • billranbillran Member Posts: 113
    user777, There have been a couple occasions in the past where you have interpreted something I have written to have implications that I truly did not intend. That is very easy to do and I think all of us have written things that we believed conveyed a certain message, while others may have read it to have other implications.

    After being involved in this discussion for awhile and reading lots of posts, my opinions have changed a bit and I have tried to tone my posts down at least a little.

    I agree that wwest has indeed done more research and speculation on this topic than anyone else, and much of it I believe has been unbiased and valuable. I acknowledge and respect that. And I do agree with many of the things that you and he have written, although I know we still do have differing opinions on certain aspects of this topic.

    I strongly believe however that there have been some obvious posts and actions on this board that are not unbiased and have a specific intent. And I would like to believe you are unbiased enough to at least see a little of what I am talking about.

    When I see what I believe to be misleading, inaccurate, distorted or exaggerated statements, or actions that are clearly designed to simply throw stones at a manufacturer, I have to speak up. My intent however is to question the statements being made, as well as the intent, not attack the individual.
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    I found some under "vehicle speed control", and this is also where unintended acceleration complaints were filed. There were some people reporting complaints multiple times -- some it was obvious that they complained, had the TSB done with no improvement, then complained again. In my count of 30 on the 2002 Lexus ES 300, I eliminated all those with duplicate VINs, even if the second post was legitimately to tell the NHTSA that the Toyota fix was not working.
  • pwgilbertpwgilbert Member Posts: 16
    I initially thought this was (could be?) a useful forum where people would actually help people solve problems. Instead, it is some sort of sophomoric debate team experience it seems--more interested in expressing opinions and philosophy and arguing and trying to support a particular viewpoint and putting people down instead of sticking with the issue at hand. I've outgrown my college debate team fun times. Have fun guys and gals. Bye. I won't miss you either.
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Sorry. The discussion did go off on an tangent shortly after your post. Sorry it didn't go the way you wanted. Didn't you post about a Honda Pilot? Maybe someone in a Honda forum (as opposed to Lexus) can have more to offer...
  • lambdalambda Member Posts: 5
    Nice slam on Hyundai who tied Honda last year for second place in overall reliability (JDP) and made the most reliable car avalible in the US for 2005 with the Sonata according to Consumer Reports.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Likw Motownusa says,I don't always think "some people are merely interested in this phenomenon"
    Sorry to see you go just because issues like this sometimes get sidetracked. That's just human nature, especially when an issue as controversial as this one is concerned. There is much misinformation being bantied about concerning this issue.
    I stuck my nose into it because it began to take on the mass hysteria profile discussions about hesitation sometimes evolve to. A lot of unwarranted, erronious, misquoted, and misleading statements get posted, and then others run them up the flagpole over and over again.
    Classic example of what I'm talking about is the issue about NHTSB "supposedly listing" a great many complaints about hesitation. Without any verification of authenticity, this was repeatedly hashed about, and inferences abounded everywhere that it was "evidence" there was a widespread problem.
    Turns out most of the complaints there weren't quite legit.
    Someone was loading that site with bogus information. I honestly believe that type of intentional abuse sometimes happens here too.
    In spite of moving off topic to correct this misinformation, it needed to be said. My apologies.
  • cxccxc Member Posts: 122
    Hylyner,

    Do you own a 2002 - 2006 ES300 or ES330 or have you driven it for a few months?
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Apologies if I don't answer that question straight away, but I must first ask why you inquired. Sorry, but I'm just a little gunshy of questions like that.
    I have been around Edmunds since last October. First time I posted in Edmunds was in the engine hesitation forum (now closed because of mudslinging). I was immediately and rudely taken to task re why a first time poster even had any business being there. Later on, several more times I was rudely asked why I had reason to be there because I didn't have the problem. This happened to some others also. Putting people down was often a typical treatment for anyone who didn't have the problem and wanted to learn more about it.
    I don't want that to happen any more. If that's where you're going with your question, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't go there.
  • billranbillran Member Posts: 113
    One correction to what you stated hylyner. The hesitation forum indeed welcomed anyone who had a hesitation problem with their car. It also welcomed most eagerly anyone else, as long as they were willing state, over and over, what a big issue the hesitation is and and occasionally throw stones at Toyota. If however you actually owned one of the cars but did not have a problem, and questioned some of the obviously exaggerated and distorted statements that were sometimes made, they definitely tried to run you out in the rudest of fashions. That's part of what got it shut down.

    Personally, I believe that if Edmunds is going to allow people to make claims that are clearly questionable, and statements that are obviously designed to slam the manufacturer, then thoughtful questions and occasional rebuttal need to be allowed as well.
  • pdc5pdc5 Member Posts: 2
    RE: paint chipping on ES330.

    My paint is chipping on several places on the hood and side of the car. Lexus says that they are rock chips. I do not drive in gravel. I disagree, I believe that there is a paint defect. Has anyone seen this happen before? How do I attack this problem?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Edmunds certainly isn't going to go "fact-checking" on what you post---this is after all the Internet :P -- so take everything you read with a grain (or a pound) of salt--- BUT...if it gets into repetitive "brand-bashing" for no constructive purpose we may intervene as this does nothing but tick people off.
  • oralmeddocoralmeddoc Member Posts: 13
    Now that things have settled down on this forum, I wanted to post my experience. I have had my 2005 ES 330 for about 14 months and have put around 15,000 miles on it. I was not aware of the hesitation in my car until I drove a loaner, which was much smoother and more responsive than my car in terms of shifting/acceleration. I always had driven a 5 speed manual and so had just assumed that all ATs drove like dogs. I mentioned this to the service writer when I picked up my car, and he told me that the TSB just came in and that they could perform it on my car right then if I wanted. This was April 1, 2005, the first day the revised TSB was released. I posted this experience here at that time, and judging by the course of discussion on this forum since then, I would propose that my unit was more likely than not the first one to receive this latest TSB. Worked well for about 2 weeks, then the car went back to its old tricks with hesitation, rough shifting,etc.
    I realized that the way the car would downshift and upshift was not in line with how I would do it if it were a manual transmssion, the main differences being that the transmission seemed to want to kick up to a higher gear as soon as possible and stay there as long as possible, even inappropriately (e.g. when accelerating and decelerating)and that upshifts seemed to occur at a low RPM (~2000). So I began to shift through the gears myself, upshifting at about 3000-3500 RPM...the point at which I would upshift a manual transmission. If I needed to downshift to accelerate, I would do it just like in a manual. Slowing down to a stop, I would also downshift as the car slowed. The important point here is that whenever I took control of the transmssion, I did so in a way that I would have if it were manual, and always ran the RPMs to around 3000-3500 when accelerating/upshifting, and using modest amounts of engine breaking when slowing down.
    Immediately, I noticed a difference in the way the transmission behaved. I went through this "training" period for about a month, and then just reverted back to fully automatic function (drive in "D"). I am happy to say that the function of the drivetrain is smooth and powerful,and without hesitation. Occasionally I will notice a slight hesitation, but very slight indeed...sometimes I just go back to the "training" cycle for the day to "remind" the drivetrain how I like it to shift and react...I do this maybe every 6-8 weeks, if that.
    Also, I found that changing to 87 octane gasoline seemed to help....drivetrain is actually less sluggish/more responsive with 87 vice 92/93....maybe less powerful, but if the transmssion can't smoothly execute that power, it's not worth it to me.
    I know this hasn't been a very technical explanation and may seem naive to some of the other posters who appear to have backgrounds in engineering and law, but it is what I have found has worked for me. For those who drive this car and want a suggestion, try this out and see what happens. I'm now pleased with every aspect of this car.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I assume you have the sequential shift transaxle....??
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    I understand what you're saying billran. Yes, it sometimes appears stones are being intentionally thrown, and it's true that some aggressively promote this tactic, probably for reasons going beyond "just interested" in the issue.
    Not to worry.
    One cannot expect Edmunds to be the judge and jury over all that's posted here.
    More often than not however, stonethrowers live in glass houses.
    Thankfully, most readers aren't that naive as to not know it when they see stonethrowers.
    Some advice. This is the internet.
    Impeccable sources don't necessarily amount to impeccable information.
    Hearing from the horse's mouth means little when the horse may have reason not to be truthful.
    Use your own judgement, and be cool.
    Multi Grazi.
  • smooth01smooth01 Member Posts: 18
    I recently purchased a 2003 ES300 and also had the transmission shudder problem. My friend that is a mechanic at Lexus stated that my car already had the computer upgrade for that problem ,but I still had a shudder when coming close to a stop and then starting up again.I had my ES300 tramsmission serviced at a Toyota dealership as Lexus alway's wants an appointment ,which isn't alway's convienient for me. While flushing the tranny ,they installed a #10212 SHUDDER GUARD FLUSH KIT for an additional $31.75,and stated that I wouldn't need my tranny serviced for another 80,00 miles. Since that shudder kit has been installed, I have had absolutely no shudder in my transmission,It worked for me.I hope this helps everyone with the transmission problem,you might have to go to a Toyota dealer to find the right fix .
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    that's good news and i bet very helpful for other owners. reading your post though, perhaps if you were more descriptive of the shudder issue... if you can explain your symptoms a bit more, it will help people know what you were dealing with which may be the same, but more likely different to what other people are experiencing with respect to hesitation.

    i presume for example, the shudder you describe would be like a bucking sensation.
  • shepalishepali Member Posts: 72
    oralmeddoc - Thank you very much for this suggestion. I'm willing to give it a try!

    You did hit the nail on the head - the way this car drives is EXACTLY why I never wanted an automatic. I always drove stick shift until 1998 - when I bought a Tahoe. Then 3 yrs later I got a SAAB automatic that I had for 3 years. Both of them removed my concerns about automatics. Until now.... with this car. Interestingly, the SAAB also had a learning transmission - supposedly. And I had no problems with it at all.

    I am curious - for those who do have the problem at discussion - do you all have the adjustable pedals? It just occurred to me today, when I got my car back from service and they had moved the pedals - and a few of the posts here discussed pedal position - is it at all possible this could be related?
  • smooth01smooth01 Member Posts: 18
    I'll try to describe better than my previous post. I would be coming to a stop light and preparing to stop and the light would change ,so instead of coming to a stop I would step on the gas to go on through the light.When not coming to a complete stop and accelerating the transmission would have a jerking or shuddering feel.The feel would also feel like you had a bad plug wire.If your transmission is acting up and you are reading this post, you will know what I am talking about.Lexus could install these"SHUDDER GUARD FLUSH KITS," which is exactly how it was printed on my bill,and take care of all their complaints,but that would be a costs to them,so you owners have to foot the bill yourself,even though that is a small price to pay to allieviate the problem.
  • koblixkoblix Member Posts: 8
    I have a 2005 ES330 with 11k miles. I bought my car in a 10k service and they charged me $160. All they did were oil change and tired rotation. My next trip would cost me $450 at 15k. This do not sound reasonable at all for every 5k. Should I use 3rd party services? Any recommendation in the San Jose, Bay Area? TIA.
  • smooth01smooth01 Member Posts: 18
    Very excessive ! My Lexus dealer wants $62.00 for an oil change,with pick up and delivery if wanted and by appointment.I can get my Lexus ES300 serviced(oil & lube) at the local Toyota dealer for $29.33 with no appointment, just drive in. Also other minor service work done with Toyota parts, which are same parts Lexus use.My last service included Oil change-tire rotation-replace windshield wiper inserts, with coupons that Toyota sends you when you become a customer,for a total of $60.44.My suggestion would be to give Toyota a try.
  • visisagevisisage Member Posts: 2
    Can you post a 10 digit exact Toyota part # for this "SHUDDER GUARD FLUSH KITS" ... the local dealer never heard about this.

    thanks for a "shuddered" brain
  • smooth01smooth01 Member Posts: 18
    It was on my bill as #10212- SHUDDER GUARD FLUSH KIT with the charge of $31.75. Ask your dealer to contact TOYOTA OF DES MOINES , Service Dept Number is 515-276-4912.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Googled for "Atkinson cycle" & "intake noise".

    I was curious if the intake noise from the Atkinson cycle's reverse airflow, combustion chamber back into the intake manifold, in a 3.3L V6 might be at least part of the reason the RX400h doesn't make use of this fuel economy method.

    Inadvertently found:

    July, 8th, 1999 Final report by SRI, Sierra Research Inc, on "Alternative and Future Technologies for Reducing Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Road Vehicles"

    One of the conclusions is that if the industry switched to 5-speed automatic transmissions, made use of ASL, Aggressive Shift Logic (quicker upshifts), early torque converter clutch lockup, and shift into neutral with brake application and engine at idle, a 9.8% improvement in fuel economy would result. Industry response was that "driveability" would suffer.

    Welcome to 2006.
  • rrhinorrhino Member Posts: 4
    Yes, I have the same problems with my 2005 ES 330. I took the car back to Lexus the 2nd week and complained about the hesitation, lurching and lack of acceleration. I have even had the experience, on the freeway no less, where I came to a sudden stop and the transmission made a sound like I was being rear ended. I was told by the Tustin Lexus lead mechanic that it is a software problem and there is nothing I can do about it and to start using 91 Octane gas to minimize the problem. I have been doing that, but the owners manual and Consumer Reports says you should use 87 Octane. I was also told they changed the spark plugs to hotter burning kind and they need the higher grade of gas. So, who is going to pay for all this more expensive gas? Why isn't Lexus doing a recall on these cars and taking them off the show room floor before someone gets killed. I need immediate response when I step on the gas on So Cal Freeways, no delays.

    I have now taken the car back 4 times and I am currently driving one of their loaner SUV's. It does not have the problem.
  • rrhinorrhino Member Posts: 4
    Nothing is working for me. I have had my 2005 ES 330 since August and have taken it back to the dealer on 4 occasions. The car hesitates, lurches and even makes a sound like I am being rear ended if I stop to suddenly. I was told to put 91 Octane in to minimize the problem, but it does not help. I just have more power. The car is now at the dealer again and I am in a loaner. It did the above on the test drive and the salesman at Tustin Lexus said it was just cold. If I new the truth, I would not have purchased it - dumb me!
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    If it were me I would leverage the salesman if he/she is still there. Politely ask that you, the salesman and the service manager have an opportunity to drive yours and another on their lot back-to-back. Assuming the other vehicle doesn't exhibit the hesitation, demand firmly for them to make your vehicle drive like the other...

    It's good news you are in a loaner. When you pick up the vehicle, tell them you want to go for a spin and see that they've fixed it. If it isn't fixed, then politely/firmly recommend the test drive. Get your salesman engaged and bring up the issue of being told "the unit is cold". If there is a software problem, tell them you want your vehicle loaded with software the same as the unit that doesn't experience the hesitation.

    Have the situation documented.
  • visisagevisisage Member Posts: 2
    This "ShudderGuard Flush Kit" is an aftermarket product, really not a Toyota product. What it does is a tranmission flush kit (added before flushing, and an additive to the new transimission after flush). It changes the fluid's frictional behavior. I guess it helps. Actually, any add-on product that will change the viscosity of the transimmion fluid will change the driving behavior - but not recommended by the manufacturer for sure.
  • smooth01smooth01 Member Posts: 18
    RE: Lexus 2003 ES300-I don't know if it after market or not, but Toyota is the one who added the shudder guard flush kit and I didn't even acknowledge to them that I had a shudder problem.Whether recommended by the manufacturer or not ,I'm sure they wouldn't have put it in if it was not recommended by the manufacturer or would have any effect on the warranty ,I'm sure they know what Lexus recommends as they are basically the same vehicle and take the same parts.
  • shepalishepali Member Posts: 72
    Well, I tried to manually shift the transmission for a few days, and it actually made mine respond even worse. The jerkiness and hesitation was amplified. It even started to have shifting issues when accelerating, rather just when decelerating.

    At this point, I have just parked the car in my driveway and am driving our Suburban instead - I can't stand the car THAT much, that I'm willing to drive a clunky oversized gas guzzler!

    It will just sit there while I wait for the notice period to be up so that I can file my DTPA suit and lemon law claim.....
  • highlander48highlander48 Member Posts: 6
    I was curious, have you tried arbitration? It would sound to me like an independant arbitrator would validate your claims and force resolution.
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    I posted this FYI with your comments about the issue in another forum. Hope you find it informative.

    Here's some really interesting info. Like it or not,it's worth reading.
    My Internet research reveals there are at least Four (count 'em---4!!)Aftermarket Suppliers of "Transmission Performance Programmers", also called "Power Control Modules", sometimes called "Automotive Performance Computers" which are able to modify shift performance, shift points, shift firmness, and a host of other parameters for 4,5,and 6 speed automatic transmissions on every make or model of vehicle on the planet.
    That tells me (1)There's no mystery or black magic to this issue, (2)The so called "unknown fix" isn't unknown--likely Toyota included, (3)A lucrative market exists for people to change the way their trannys work--not just Toyota/Lexus, (4)Cost is modest--prices range from $125 to $400 depending how sophistcated one wants to go.
    All the confusing technobabble aside, in layman's terms, I no longer believe it's the mysterious and elusive quest we've all been obsessing about.
    That said, here's what I think this issue boils down to.
    All manufacturer's DBW throttle/transmission systems have unusual or unfamiliar characteristics. I believe those Service Tech's comments about it being a "normal" characteristic are probably correct. I believe it's likely a consistent phenomenon across the board--typical to a greater or lesser degree to all manufacturers. Auto manufacturing consistency today is higher than it's ever been, so anomalies like some suggest this may be aren't too prevailent any more.
    So I believe that complaints we are seeing have more to do with a few owners having adverse sensitivity to the issue, and most owners not noticing it nor being bothered by it.
    More research results. A small sampling to be sure, but revealing nonetheless.
    Since coming into this issue last October, I've driven 12 Toyota/Lexus products with 5 speed BBW in addition to our own two cars. Lexus 330 and RX series, Highlander, Avalons, and Camry. None has exhibited any of the delay, lurching, seeking, or prolonged hesitation. All have been seamless, smooth and quiet. I have yet to experience any of this phenomenon, and I have yet to speak directly to anyone who has.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Of the 50 or so people I polled over the weekend here for the 24 vhours of Daytona the only ones with the type of hesitation complaints described in the TSB seemed to be exclusively FWD Toyota or Lexus owners. And just as we see here not all owners were experiencing the problem, some seem to not even grasp my question without an explanation.

    I had the opportunity to drive a number of rental cars back to the rental lot, almost all FWD, and not a one of them exhibited the symptom, including my own Chrysler sebring, insofar as I could tell.
  • billranbillran Member Posts: 113
    Wwest, would you say that the 50 owners represented a fair and equal crossection of manufacturers? Did you ask an equal number of Honda/Acura, and other owners before reaching your conclusion?

    A search of NHTSA records and interviews with Consumer Reports magazine also show owners of other car makes are suffering from the same hesitation problem, including BMW's 3 Series, Ford Explorers and Escapes, and Dodge Durango 4x4.

    David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center in Connecticut, said the magazine's testers have encountered the same problems in the Audi A6 2.7T, the Audi Allroad, the Mazda6 equipped with the V-6 engine, and the Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Conclusion..??

    I doubt if I will ever come to a "conclusion" absent same from Toyota/Lexus. Just gathering information.
  • shepalishepali Member Posts: 72
    I appreciate that information and do find it informative. It also makes me wonder why Lexus continues to say nothing can be done. I also wonder why they haven't suggested such a product, since the local dealer and the Lexus representative both acknowledge and can repeat the symptoms in my car (unless there are warranty issues associated with such an aftermarket product...).

    But I must vehemently disagree that I am just experiencing an 'adverse sensitivity to the issue'. I do agree that most owners are not 'noticing it nor being bothered by it'. But it is definitely more than a perception or sensitivity issue.

    After reading some of the other observations and suggestions, I have been messing around with different driving 'styles', for lack of a better word. And the symptoms are definitely more pronounced under certain driving conditions and/or driving 'styles'. It is definitely some type of reaction by the software or hardware to the 'inputs' from the driver.

    Having said that, I have not been able to find a 'style' where the symptoms are completely gone - THAT may be a function of my 'sensitivity to the issue'. But as noted in a previous post, the car doesn't react the same to the same inputs - so modifying my driving 'style' permanently has not been effective. Not to mention, I do not see anywhere in the manual where the driving 'style' required for this car is discussed.

    I completely understand that you and others do not experience the symptoms that I experience, and I have event talked to others who do not experience this problem. But trust me, what I am experiencing is much more than just being 'sensitive to the issue' - and I am not the only once experiencing this, so it is definitely more than just sensitivity.
  • shepalishepali Member Posts: 72
    I am actually in the process of trying arbitration, under the Lemon Law in my state.

    Unfortunately, my attorney and I are not very hopeful based on the comments posted on these forums - which seems to indicate that the big company (i.e. Lexus) seems to have more influence on the arbitrator's decision than little ole me.

    But, I'm still going to give it a go. I'm in the 'notice period' right now, so cannot file my claim until mid-February based on the way our state's lemon law works.
  • shepalishepali Member Posts: 72
    I don't understand the difference between this forum,and the Lexus/Toyota Transaxle Shift Delay forum (http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.efe9615/48).

    Can you please clarify? Because it seems like people (me included) are posting the same information in both places...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This forum is supposed to be JUST for the 300, the other for all Lexus/Toyota. If you don't own a 300 you should probably be over there.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    you might what to clarify that: ...if you wish to report a Lexus/Toyota shift delay in a vehicle other than the Lexus 300...
  • hylynerhylyner Member Posts: 216
    Good luck with your Lemon Law process. You have formed your opinion of the issue and based your action plan on that opinion--your choice is made; now let the chips fall where they may.
    Nevertheless my perception on what this is all about have not changed, and likely won't, at least not in the near future. If it turns out my assessment is in some way incorrect, so be it. For now, I'm standing firm on what I feel is going on here. I'm quite happy with my vehicle status, and like I said earlier, I have yet to meet anyone who hasn't. I've met quite a few who agree with me. I don't expect that status to change much either.
    I posted info about "performance enhancers" as simply info, and wasn't implying that anyone should rush out and buy one.
    It simply proved there are commercially available devices out there, unrelated to Toyota/Lexus, which change transmission shift characteristics. Therefor the issue is fixable, changeable, modifiable, or whatever, and isn't the elusive and mysterious quest being bantied about by us.
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