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Comments
they did instrument the car twice for some short-term diagnostics, but that fails pretty miserably to duplicate the scenarios you experienced the events in - doesn't it?
i suppose you'd need perhaps a third event in order for them to do a buy back or justify to themselves replacing a component.
sad.
if you feel most confident both events were not caused by an action or inaction on your part, my suggestion is you should probably get out of the vehicle, even at a loss as another event could drastically change the cost/benefit equation in front of you as of this day.
to fight a manufacturer on an issue like this would take time, money and effort i'm not sure any consumer would have to spare. i'm thinking you'd burn much more money than the fiscal hit you'd take on trade. add in the time, effort, frustration, etc, and it just gets more costly overall.
there would need to be engineering specialists to duplicate the two scenarios you experienced and repeatedly run them again and again until an event occurred that could be captured on a data collection system installed on the car. that is expertise, equipment, time and money another organization would have to come up with.
then you'd need law expertise to take the data collected by the engineers with their equipment and present it in the proper forum for the manufacturer or government to take action.
even if the engineering and law expertise were free to you, you'd be in the vehicle right?
i hate to say give the problem to someone else, but if it were me, if i had lost confidence in the vehicle i own and operate, my safety and the safety of passengers who might be riding with me, or for that matter people in my immediate vicinity where another event may occur, i say it's better to move on.
as i see it, you've been lucky twice.
you've registered two complaints with NHTSA. by doing so you've alerted other people, the government, and the manufacturer. you've given the manufacturer two opportunities to do right by you.
i think you've done what any single person can realistically be expected to do to alert the manufacturer and the public of an issue. the manufacturer has deemed the vehicle operating as designed.
rhetorical question: who should you trust at this point - the manufacturer, or yourself?
while you can file a lawsuit, what are you going to sue for?
damages (money) or something else? to force an action upon the manufacturer (like a major recall and replacement of parts), or stop an action on their part (like cease manufacturing and selling vehicles with DBW technology)?
what if something should happen to you or another person as a result of a 3rd event, would staying in the vehicle have made any justifiable sense?
i'm not in your situation thankfully, but i'm sorry, i'm not following your plan of action here.
i do not believe you need to wait for a 3rd event to file a lawsuit or investigate being a part of some class-action.
i just don't think the cost-benefit of doing either is in your favor.
Any chance you have a link? Or how many available/what the probs with trannies were? Or even why the buybacks?
Thanks.
Enter "Lexus ES"
Next page, enter "2007" in both minimum and maximum years.
The very first one showing up is a GORGEOUS Ruby Red with 1,000 miles that is a buyback with replaced transmission. That is clearly and honestly stated in the last paragraph of the description.
I didn't look at any others, but there are more listed.
Ambler, PA
215-540-8888 or 1-800 LEMON LAW
Bought a 1999 es 300 and today the trac off light came on with the engine light also. I have no idea, checked the book and says see Dealer, any thoughts first
thank you
we purchased it. Now it has 40k and there really are no
transmission problems. A slight little whirling noise between
20 and 30 mph. Been that way since day one. Been driving the
wheels off the thing and so far so good. First thing I did
was dump all the oil, trans, engine etc. and put synthetic
oil in everything. Went to Salt Lake City Utah from San Fran
area, got 34.8 mpg with the cruise control on. Average speed
70 to 80.
Works for me.
How has yours been working out?
My friend owns the car and the lease is up in June. The car has 15K miles on it and i am told that he has never had any trans hesitation so i think it's ok.
He's an old friend and I trust him...
Read the three circumstances in the 2003 Camry TSB under which it most commonly occurs.
After careful tests I have determined that on my car there is hesitation only if I gently press the gas pedal. This is fine because it saves gas.
When I stab the pedal, the car takes off briskly.
The hesitation problem for the newest transmission and software combination may also be related to how quickly and how far you press the pedal. The computer can easily determine how fast you are moving the pedal, which makes this different from what we are used to with a non-computerized transmission.
I think that this is a side effect of an algorithm in the engine computer designed to get better mileage and emissions ratings in the standard tests. It has been an issue with several Toyota models for several years.
For me, the 330 has turned out to be a great car.
We were driving on a single lane road and I got tired of driving behind this old beat-up pickup truck at low speeds. I floored the gas pedal and immediately the rpm went up from 1600 to about 5000 rpm, I overtook the vehicle and as I eased off the gas pedal, the vehicle refused to drop rpms and speed. The vehicle behaved as if I was driving in 1st gear and stuck in it. Also, the sound from the transmission was unbearable. I wanted to slow down and kept on shifting to 4, 3, 2, while pushing down on break pedal with my foot, anything that would switch off the vehicle but to no avail.
I then shifted to Neutral and that did not help, either. The vehicle was still going fast. Luckily, there were no cars on the road in front of me. In my last desperate attempt, I simply took the ignition key off. The vehicle finally came to a stop. I then caught my breath, put the key back into ignition and started the car. It was Ok, finally.
I really did not feel I had to take the car to my dealer as I was afraid they would laugh at me. I no longer try to floor the gas pedal anytime I drive this car.
I presume when you put the vehicle in N or Neutral, the vehicle speed would have continued to decline, specially if you put on the brakes...
However, perhaps the engine reving would not go down for you. That MUST BE diagnosed by your dealership.
Further, you should report your experience with the NHTSA site.
Never though should you turn your ignition off. Not only can you end up locking your wheel, you'll loose power to the stearing and braking systems.
Again, when you put the vehicle in N (Neutral), that should have de-coupled the engine from the transmission / wheels, and you should have been able to slow (although with engine perhaps racing).
If that's not the case, then you have a totally different problem.
The only thing left is the Stearing, brakes and ignition and even with those these days you can't be sure there isn't some ECU firmware in the control loop, especially with the ignition "control" key.
Some of the newer VSC systems even have the ability to "assume" control of the stearing inputs.
ECM/PCM/TCM i don't know.
It most certainly would not "allow" a shift into reverse.
i did recommend the poster contact the NHSTA didn't I?
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
it could be like the airbus crash at the paris airshow... test pilot performs a low-altitude manuver that the engineers didn't anticipate in the programming of the system and the engine controls usurp pilot authority when he attempts to go full throttle (to make it over the trees).
he didn't make it.
if the transmission is programmed NOT to go to "N" at high rev, coupled with a sticky accelerator / non-linearity in sensing / or a confused throttle body servo, then that is one scarey scenario. you've got to be able to decouple the engine from the drivetrain if speed is increasing.
turning off the vehicle to "reset the electronics" is :sick:
now then, one would think it *may* be possible for the vehicle to be checked under controlled conditions again. but who would want to do it.
oh how wonderful if not repeatible, huh?
now, speaking for myself, and not trying to be alarmist, if i had an uncontrolled event like that which could not be pin-pointed / addressed, i'd be immediately dumping the vehicle, loss and all.
Or to be quite fair, the gas pedal may have been stuck under the carpet mat, like has happened to me twice, once many years ago and again just two years ago.
Carpet mat "draped" over the gas pedal but behind the brake pedal, the harder you brake the more the engine ROARS.
still, you have to be able to disengage the transmission. it's suicide if you can't.
Like I stated before, I no longer try flooring the gas pedal in any circumstances.
thanks for confirming it wasn't an issue with the mats.
also good to know you shut the thing down at or near zero speed when you started taking off again... like i said, powering everything down is dangerous, but you did it at a more controllable condition than at speed.
ultimatley, we're glad you are ok!!!
i STRONGLY suggest you contact the NHSTA and put in an entry for your VIN.
My next option looks to be in the court but I've been doing whatever I get it fixed.
Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated!
thanks!
My '92 ES300 started these same symptoms about a month ago.
running at 40-45 MPH when the accelerator is pressed it shutters like you ran over a dog or something.
I see allot of people have this same problem. I've had this car for over ten years... why would this problem just pop up now?
if your vehicle is truly a '92, and if you are experiencing hesitation upon throttle application, either you have a fuel/air problem (dirty throttle body, clogged air filter), missing hose, clogged EGR port, etc, or you have a transmission problem (dirty fluid, problematic shift solenoid), or something along those lines.
you could also have an issue with plugs, ignition coil, wires...
for that matter a clogged CAT covertor might yield a loss of power / stumbling.
have you googled the issue more?
how about another site dealing with vintage lexus.
do you have a shop dealing with lexus / toyota vehicles. you might want to ask them how much it might cost to diagnose.
but I was having the exact symptoms described here. the car is drives fine. it's only happened when cruising at 40-45 MPH, all is well. until you press the accelerator again. then the car shutters like crazy until it passes 45 MPH. then it's all good again. if you mash it hard in the 30's and pass through the 40's it does not do it. anyways... the solution given a few pages back totally worked for me. I pulled out the "ECU-IG" fuse for about five mins. and put it back in.
the problem is gone.
However, i've been experiencing some scary moments with my transmission.
Several times now while driving, my gas pedal will become unresponsive. The engine will rev, but the car will not move forward. I try to shift to a lower gear, and these will also not drive.
After pulling over and shutting the engine off, I will restart the engine, and the car will drive as normal. This has happened 4 times now. 3 of these times happened while I was driving on the freeway (2 going up a significant hill). The other time was driving through the city, going no more than 20 mph.
Another quirk that happens (which i'm assuming is associated) is that my speedometer will jump between 60 - 80 randomly while i'm on the free way. I got a speeding ticket for doing 83 when I had my cruise control set at 68.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Could I have a short in my wiring harness? Could anyone please help me with cost effective solutions.
With high mileage I would suspect OD lockup clutch slipping, or even standard clutches. It might take as long as a week or so for the ECU to "learn" that clutches are slipping depending on the severity, or non-severity, of the slippage.
How does the transmission act if you reset the computer and then drive with OD always disabled for a few days?
"grounded the alternator cable.."
The most obvious alternator wire for "easy", accidentally, grounding would be the OUTPUT one connected directly to the battery via a fusible link. That should result in nothing more than would happen with a dead battery, even if you blew the fusible link.
Because,sadly, that would be the truth of the matter had not Toyota and Lexus began to have transaxle design problems, SERIOUS design problems/flaws, going back to the introduction of the RX300 in '98.
can help me before i go spend money on possibly the wrong thing. anyway my
93 es300 started leaking pwrsteering fluid bad, like every other day,then i noticed
that after a while of driving the car would start to get hot.sum kinda way im thinking
the pwrsteering high pressure hose goes to the radiator, i dont know! sum kinda way these two have to be working togther. then after all this, as im driving,the gas pedal becomes unresponsive,the engine jus revs but no movement, then i pull over
an let the car sit for a minute, an start it back up, an it begins to drive normal,then after awhile acts up again. now im no expierenced mechanic,but i know enough
about cars to know that a trans is not jus gonna go out like that! no warning,no slipping or nothin. this car has another engine in it,wit about 70,000 miles on it, the trans is the original,which total, the car has about 130,000 miles. like i said, im no expert,but these type of cars (toyota/lexus), these trans can run well up to 200,000
plus. there is no way this trans is out...there has to be some one who can tell me or kinda give me a good idea of whats goin on. becuz im about to go spend almost 1500 on a trans job i mite not need, as far as the pwrsteering issue, that i can take care of , but this trans problem is killing me, an i got to get this car fixed fast....help,help,help!!!
lot more notice before it went out. an no check engine light ever came on either,an hey, should i change the high pressure hoes that connect to the pwrsteering pump
from the engine an to the radiator, when i do change the pump? an can i jus change the shift solenoid,wit out redoin the whole trans? an does the pwrsteering pump interact someway wit the coolant or radiator on the car, it seems like it does!
an thanks for your help to, i appreciate it,alot
I have a similar problem with my 1994 ES 300 with 123000 miles on it. Did you ever get a diagnosis? I am considering selling my car if it needs a new transmission.
Any help would be much appreciated
Thanks
The ES 350 was easily my #1 choice in terms of features and value. I was attracted to the Lexus brand because my impression was that Toyota and Honda generally make the highest-quality under-$40K cars in the world. What would make more sense than buying from Toyota's "luxury" division? Car magazine journalists regularly write about "legendary Lexus quality." That leads to a contradiction: Why does Toyota have such a stellar quality reputation even though it has had ongoing FWD transaxle problems since 1999? Why can't Toyota figure this out? Shouldn't Toyota thoroughly test pre-production models instead of making its customers responsible for quality assurance? Replaced transmissions, buybacks, amazing.
It's hard to figure out the precise truth and a manufacturer is probably going to avoid transparency in this kind of situation, so I think I should move on to other makes and models. Any suggestions for FWD alternatives to the 2008 ES 350?