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Comments
Forgive my intrusion, but it sounds like you are convincing yourself that the initial hesitation you felt on the test drive won't bother you as long as you understand the technology.
I am still trying to understand the technology too, but am still annoyed at times by the slow response to pushing on the gas and feeling the shudder when it downshifts - as atoews refers to.
If I were you, I'd take a more basic approach to it. Test it again (without the sales person in the car). Stomp on the gas, slow quickly, speed up again - then drive it slow and easy, noticing every sound and vibration. Drive it for as many miles as they will allow, before you purchase. New car owners should be 100% satisfied with the car when they leave the lot - (the car won't get any better than when it's brand new and shiney).
P.s. My car is a 2004 Camry SE V6 with the same 5 speed ECT-i automatic.
Wiht the exception of the shifting and throttle response, it is a great car that I wish I had never bought. I also own a LS400, my second,and I do not know of a nicer production automobile, but, I will never trust Lexus enough to buy another one of any model. Their response to the driveability problems of the 300 have been underwhelming.
I will be looking into a used es300, most of my driving will be on the freeway. From what I've read, there is a lot of issues with AT, does anyone if the '92 used the same?
94k, leather, suppose to be clean with no major mechanic issues; Their asking for 5k.
Thanks.
The 92 ES300 had a totally different transmission from today's ES300. In fact the 92-93 ES300 had one transmission, the 94-96 ES300 had another transmission.
I'm sure Lexus will do something about it..Their whole Brand Image is based on Reliability..I've driven a few ES cars and have noted their sluggish transmissions. The ES330 I had recently as a loaner was significantly better though. If anything I'm sure Lexus is working on a fix.
Don't let one bad experience deter you from buying another Lexus car. I've had 3 LS400/430's and plan on continuing to buy them. (I still have the 92..Absolutely Bulletproof reliability) Lexus still builds a car that is second to none in reliability.
SV
You might want to search for user "texas83" and a couple of others who have engaged in lawsuits against Lexus/Toyota over the issue. Currently, Lexus will not even acknowledge that there is a problem.
I noticed that the hesitation is worse the harder you punch it. If you ease in on the throttle and push it when you feel the tranny engage, there's not much hesitation at all. Or at the very least, a lot less than when you just floor it quickly.
Any thoughts on this? I'm still debating whether or not to buy one. I'm going to test drive it again the weekend. There's no other car that interests me. If I don't buy it, I'll just keep my 1997 ES300 and wait to see what the 2005s are like.
Re: changing driving habits ("hesitation is worse the harder you punch it"). Unfortunately we can't always control our driving patterns and have to adjust depending on traffic flow, congestion, emergency stops, stop and go of rush hour, etc.
I'd say that if you are annoyed by the shifting on the new ES330, you might try a different ES, (some ES cars seem to be affected more than others - or at least their owner's are more vocal than others) but more than likely you will continue to be annoyed if you purchase it. You are probably very sensitive to the way a car responds and the current ES model may not be for you. The updated GS330 model is due out soon and promises to be "sporty" with close to 250hp.
I noticed that the hesitation is worse the harder you punch it. If you ease in on the throttle and push it when you feel the tranny engage, there's not much hesitation at all. Or at the very least, a lot less than when you just floor it quickly.
Any thoughts on this? I'm still debating whether or not to buy one. I'm going to test drive it again the weekend. There's no other car that interests me. If I don't buy it, I'll just keep my 1997 ES300 and wait to see what the 2005s are like.
Lexus has obviously been very successful in sales of the ES, but Lexus' recent drop in quality ratings (number of complaints by new owners) was attributed to the ES transmission issues. They make up for it in quality of the interior, quiet ride, smooth ride, etc.
All cars have some lag between the time you put your foot on the gas pedal and when the car responds. Some more than others. And granted the ES330 could be better in this regard. But dangerous? I don't think so.
Also, I've read about 3 reviews in car magazines of the ES300 (C & D) and the ES330 and there was absolutely no mention of the issue. The only place I see it discussed is by a few ranters on the Internet.
Best of luck with your car selection.
Check back on older posts on this site.
I may be getting use to it's jerky habits as it now has close to 10K miles.
Anyway, just suggestions that might help.
After all of you folks experiences I changed my mind and bought a used (19,000) Mazda Millenia that drives just as well and and has a silky smooth engine and transmission for $15,000. I'm happy and saved $17,000. Thanks folks, the Internet rocks!
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/lexus/es330/100322064/review.html- ?tid=edmunds.h..reviews.reviews.1.*
Does Edmund's pass on website chatter to reviewers?? Probably not.
You'd think that if you were in the business of reviewing cars, that you'd know and factor in what is being said by the customer base (those of us on this website).
Good question for our host. Why don't Edmund's reviewers comment on the transmission issues with the ES ???
The reviewers are usually pretty good about jumping on a glaring defect, if you read through some of the other reviews.
However, your comments (basic content, not identities) are very helpful and are directed to management for possible forwarding to manufacturers. We hosts often note any reptitive mention of problems with a car and send that observation along.
You have to remember that even a 10% failure rate in a car's component would be very unusual, so it makes sense that the Edmunds car wouldn't show it.
I think about recent scandals with stock analysts and how they had conflicts of interest with the companys they reviewed.
My biggest concern, now that my ES has 10K mi, is how likely is it that this transmission will completely fail prematurely.
I am also driving my second LS400 and had plans to buy a new 430 until I read posts from two owners complaining of abnormal shifting with their new 430's.
Quote from Auto Spy:
"Lexus passenger cars also posted strong sales of 12,762, an increase of 13.9 percent. The ES 330 luxury sedan recorded best-ever May sales of 7,099 units, up 23.9 percent. The
LS 430 flagship luxury sedan posted sales of 2,763 units, up 55.3 percent."
The interior of the ES sells itself, so by the time the test drive occurs, the customer is more focused on the wood grain, quiet and ambience of the cabin and not on the transmission.
Well, Lexus should be more concerned about RETAINING customers as much as aquiring new ones.
This customer has NO plans to buy another Lexus after owning 3, and having problems with 2 of them. Next time, I will look elsewhere.
The full report on the 02 ES300 does mention the transmission anomaly. It says during normal driving the upshift is barely perceptible, however during aggressive driving the upshift is harsh and the downshift delayed as if the transmission is confused about the driver's intention. So, it is understandable why the majority of the owners probably will not feel the symptoms being described on this board since 90% of the owners probably will not drive it in a way to induce the transmission problem. However, if you read the entire article, you will see that the overall review of the car is very positive calling it one of the best entry level luxury car in terms of fit and finish and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) even saying to pass up the MB C320 for this car.
Basically I did find it a little slow to kickdown gears when driving at about 40-50MPH but it wasn't dangerous and it wasn't any worse than my Accord V6, which I feel has a so-so automatic transmission.
This does sound like - we are the best so if we have one problem, why should we fix it if others have more problems.
Re: the Avalon. I believe the new '05 Avy will have the same drive train (3.3L V6 5sp auto - drive by wire system that is in the ES). So, if you want silky-smooth shifting, check out the '04 Av before the model end. IMO.
Since the ES, RX and Sienna now have the 3.3L V6 mated to 5sp auto tranny (which is the topic of concern), it would be predictable that they would also include it in the new, yet to be released, '05 Avalon.
Interestingly, there are posts on the new Sienna site complaining about transmission issues, but perhaps not the same ones listed for the ES.