Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
My wife drives an 04 RX330 (formerly drove an 02 RX300). We've not noticed any transmission issues with either vehicle.
I note with interest some of the posts that complain about service from the Lexus dealers. Over the last 25 years, I've acquired 24 different vehicles of various makes from 10 different dealers. The two Lexus dealers I've dealt with are head and shoulders above the rest. My current dealer, Lexus of Shreveport, is outstanding. On my 02 ES, as I dropped it off for its 10K maintenance, I mentioned to the service manager a slight shimmy when braking. He called me a little while later and said they were replacing the brake rotors at no charge. Similarly, I stopped in one day and told them I had begun hearing some unusual road noise. They took one look at the Toyo tires on the car and told me they would be replaced. I got a set of five new V-rated Goodyear Eagle GA's, including balancing and alignment at no charge. No fuss. No muss. I've never experienced that type of proactive service from any other manufacturer's dealers.
Of the six Lexus vehicles I've owned, the two items mentioned above with the 02 ES are the only times any of the six have been in the shop for anything other than scheduled maintenance. The only other car I've ever been able to say that about was a Saturn my daughter drove for 70,000 miles. Lexus does make great cars, and my experience says they stand behind what they sell.
Unfortunately, those numbers are not firm because different people coded the problem differently and I didn't read the whole complaint to be sure.
I'd suggest that everyone who has the problem should contact the NHTSA to file a complaint. It's quite easy and will only take a few minutes at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.
To ensure that the complaint gets full attention, I'd suggest that everyone enter the same thing under 'equipment'. That way, the problem won't be neglected because it appears to be so many unrelated problems. I would suggest that you enter the following two items for equipment:
Power Train:Automatic Transmission
Vehicle Speed Control:Accelerator Pedal
Since no one knows for sure what the problem is, but the drive by wire seems to be one culprit, those choices seemed reasonable.
Please take the few minutes to file your complaint if your car is affected.
It doesn't cost anything but a couple minutes of your time.
Thanks.
Will do. Thanks.
Its a wonderful car with a smooth, velvety ride. What you would expect from a Lexus. As for the transmission problem....as long as I was moving forward at ANY speed, anytime I pressed hard on the accelerator, the was a momentary pause....BUT a very small and most people wouldn't even notice. Yes for those car enthusiasts out there, you would definitely notice but I wouldn't classify this as a problem. I have driven a lot of cars, some owned, some rented and some belonging to other family/friend members. Most cars have a momentary lag, albeit a micro-second long, when you stomp on the gas. I'll add that none of these cars a drove would be classified as a sports cars. Even my Integra had a small lag that wasn't really noticeable or a problem.
The only real issue I noticed was that the shift from first to second was a bit "klunky". Not as smooth as the rest of the gear changes. But all in all a very smooth car with lots of features and what should be great reliability and resale value. Even if there really are shifting problems I don't think it will cause any real transmission problems in terms of repairs in the future.
Thats my 2 cents.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
I counted over 100 complaints for 02 alone. Something like 60 last year and 10 already on the '04 models.
The problem is that NHTSA only looks at the description. If the descriptions don't match properly, they don't count them. For example, they count 'power train:automatic transmission:torque converter' as a different complaint than 'power train: automatic transmission:shifting' even if they both describe exactly the same symptoms. It's even worse in this case because many people listed the problem under 'accelerator'.
If you go to the NHTSA web site and review the complaints for 02, 03, and 04 Lexus ES300/330 individually, you can see pretty quickly which ones cover this specific problem. The numbers are much higher than NHTSA is willing to admit. Close to 200 complaints on a car that only sells a few thousand units per year is huge.
I am just wondering: Are you a Lexus ES owner? What year is your ES? Do you have any tranny problem? Seems like all your 3 posts are asking people to file complaints to NHSTA. BTW I think Lexus are selling more than a few thousands ES a year more like over 60,000. If you include V6 Camry wih A5 then that's more. @ NHTSA site for ES330 I could only find out 8 complaints in POWER AUTO TRAN and 1 for POWER TRANS.
You can't count the Camry in with the ES330 since they have different drive trains. The transmission problem doesn't seem to appear on the Camry.
Your numbers on the complaints are incomplete. First, you're only looking at the 04 - which is less than a year old. Second, as I've pointed out, many of the complaints are probably listed elsewhere. For example, Lexus keeps telling me that the problem is the drive by wire and not the transmission. So there are also some complaints listed under that category. You want to look at the complaints for unexplained hesitation on acceleration. THAT was my point - people should be consistent in their complaint so they all get tracked together. If you have 100 complaints and they're all assigned to a different category, it won't be noticed.
As I said, there are many, many more complaints on the 02 and 03 ES300 cars.
My gripe is that everyone I've talked to at Lexus is aware of the problem - and many, many dealers reported by readers here have also admitted to being aware of the problem. But Lexus refuses to acknowledge it. If they refer to it at all, it's a 'concern', not a 'problem'. When every Lexus employee I know is aware of the problem but they refuse to fix it, they need to be forced to fix it.
Not to mention that it's irrelevant for me. I just bought an 04. Even if I could afford to replace the car after a year, there's no way Lexus is getting any more of my money the way they're handling this issue.
There's more to the drive train than just the specs.
I don't remember the exact number, but I came up with over 100 for 2002, 2003, and 2004.
Yes, 110K is a lot. That's exactly the reason why the service consultant suggested me not to flush but to do a tranny service. He said it's company policy not to flush tranny on cars with more than 100K miles because it may cause tranny problems since the new fluid may not protect the seal as well as the old fluid does.
Crystal
When I bought my ES330, I drove a number of cars. Frankly, there wasn't even any contest. My wife had just bought a Volvo at the local Infinit/Volvo dealer and they were offering me a great deal to buy my second car there. But I bought the ES330 without hesitation.
At the time, the dealer acknowledged that there were transmission problems with the ES300. He said that they had been fixed with the ES330. Since both the engine and transmission were reported to be brand new, I figured it was a good bed.
Had I known that the problem wasn't fixed, I just might be driving an Infiniti G35 today. Probably 50:50 chance.
On the 5 days a week that the transmission basically behaves itself - I'd say yes.
On the 2 days that it clunks into gear or hesitates during an anticipated shift, I'd say no and I start thinking about what I want to trade it in for - Volvo S60/S80, BMW 330 xi, wait for the new GS model. Maybe a Crossfire roadster.
ES300, even in those whose owners swear they don't have the symptom.
Well, today as my vehicle was being repaired (I have had my brake rotors go, and my rear window motor go, and my rear window shade go.), I drove an ES330 loaner. I will confirm that the hesitation is still there, but it seemes slightly different. Specifically, the ES330 hesitation seemed longer, ie. I got the sensation of stepping on the gas with the car going nowhere (as others have reported). I have never felt that in my ES300 (I did NOT get the firmware mod.) My ES300 (and the other ES300s that I drove) had a much jerkier transmission but not as long a delay.
My questions are for owners of '02 and '03 ES300s who have had the trans. software upgrade. (upgrade is reported to be same as software for the '04 330).
Did you notice MORE hesitation after the upgrade than before???
Did you notice less jerkiness after the upgrade than before???
It has an "intelligent transmission" that adjusts to your driving style, but I'm finding that I'm adjusting to it. If I ease into the throttle slowly, the car responds very nicely. At first the acceleration is mild, but it's definitely there. Since the car is so smooth and quiet, you're not sure at first if it's really accelerating unless you look at the speedometer. Then, when it shifts into gear you get a nice punch. The delay in shifting is not a problem, since you're accelerating. You just don't get the burst of the downshift immediately, but it comes soon enough.
When I test drove the demo, I noticed that if you really punch the throttle at the outset, the car definitely hesitates like it's confused at first. The car doesn't respond well to that style of driver. But if you have a sensitive foot that can "feel" the engine through the throttle, the transmission is quite satisfactory, IMO.
"Btw, the ES330 does 0 to 60 in 7.2 seconds. It is hard to imagine a car with a hesitation problem accelerating that quickly."
I rarely sensed hesitation flooring from a full stop, although I don't do that much. It's up and down and fully up that's hesitant one time. But I'd agree that this is really a corner case to me, but may not be for people who floor more often at any moment.
I disagree with those who say the problem is caused by "aggressive driving". I also totally disagree with any theory that says that the adaptive "learning" aspect of the transmission causes the problem.
Note that although one can repeat the problem at will, doing certain actions, that sometimes the problem occurs with no warning. It mostly happens when one starts up after a stop sign or when making a turn (when you make a turn, you tend to pull back on the gas during the turn, and then you try and reapply gas after the turn.)
Note for the record, that I am one of those drivers who is only mildly annoyed by the transmission problem because:
a. you can exert some control over how often it happens by adjusting your driving style.
b. The positive features of this car outweighs my annoyance with the transmission.
c. I have never experienced a dangerous situation (very long hesitation) in my vehicle. The hesitations in my car seem to last less than one or two seconds at the most.
I drove an RX330 (last year's model) as a loaner once, tried to repeat the problem in it, and discovered that the problem is not in the RX330.
I also note, for the record, that my boyfriend, who often drives my car, and I are both aware of the transmission issue, and still find this car a very desirable option, when compared to its competitors. His top pick for his next car (he currently owns and old Camry XLE) would be the ES330 and I would purchase my car again having to make the same choice over again.
Unlike myself, my boyfriend could easily afford a "GS" but does not see an $8000 price difference as being worth the difference in the two cars.
I say all this, because many are looking to this board to decide whether or not to purchase the car for the first time. I just want them to know that many of us out here are fully aware of the problem but considering everything are happy with our vehicles.
I have been on two long trips and enjoy the car otherwise. I find that the gas mileage is nice.
I am not in favor of purchasing another Lexus but my wife is really interested in the RX330. Question: Has anyone found the same problem with the RX? Thanks in advance for your help.
Your best best is to drive one to find out.
Personally, I liked the RX330, as well, but decided to go for luxury rather than utility. I am not so sure this was the right decision.
I have a 03 ES300 and most of the time I simply need to press pedal half way to pass or merge. 210 HP isn't much these days but it seems to be enough for all practical purposes. The typical judgegment I use is that if I have to floor the throttle in order to pass a car, or I can tell the other car's driver is aggressive, then I would just let the other car go first. I am not a very aggressive driver to begin with so it's never an adjustment for me. I'd not have bought ES for spirited driving to begin with, although I am not saying whatever hesitation behavior is a right one. It just never bothers me in real world driving.
Is there any info coming from Lexus/Toyota that a fix may be forthcoming?
I have considered the Acura TL, but don't need the performance, and feel Lexus will hold value better.
1. They claimed that the ES330 didn't have the problem. I specifically asked the dealer if the problem was fixed before I bought my car and he said it was. He was wrong.
2. I've been trying to get resolution from Lexus Customer 'Satisfaction' for a few months and their only response is 'it's normal'. If they were close to having a fix, I would expect that someone would say 'we have identified the problem and expect to have a solution soon. Please be patient'.
I don't think they're going to have a solution any time soon. I'm almost certainly headed for arbitration.
One of the things I plan to do is bring in all the complaints to NHTSA to show that Lexus knows it's a problem. For the 2004 model year, 11 of the 36 complaints on the RX330 are from this same issue. 22 of the 29 complaints on the ES330 are the same problem. I haven't yet figured the percentages for previous years.
Clearly, the more people who document their complaints, the better the chance that Lexus will fix the problem. So, again, I would encourage everyone who experiences the problem to file a complaint at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.
I'll keep everyone posted.
I just wish more attention had been put into how the transmission and engine worked together in the test car.
Lexus said it "revised" the old tranny to better handle the new power. And for 2004, it had "new grade logic" for the transmission to perform better on descents and ascents on hilly roads.
But in the test car, occasional, clumsy-feeling upshifts came through to passengers. There were enough of them during my test drive that I wondered what had happened to the silky-smooth shifts that I had so enjoyed from the predecessor ES. I also noticed occasional hesitation, as if the transmission was indecisive about which gear to be in, when I traveled on hilly highways
This is a review from msn carpoint. Notice the part about the transmission. The reviewer clearly felt the jerky transmission shift and the hesitation. Just wondering if this is what some owners are feeling? Incidently, I have also surfed the Avalon forum. Nothing but satisfied owners. Makes you wonder how two very similar cars made by the same company can create such different ownership experience.