Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

tedescm1 · March 2003

There has been some discussion regarding transmission problems (hesitation) with the 2002 ES 300. Does this problem also exist in the 2003 ES 300? What is Lexus doing about it?

richm4 · March 2003

I haven't heard of anyone saying the trans problem has ever been fixed. For one last time, I'm going to try test driving an ES300 this weekend to see if the trans problem still exists. If I don't notice a problem I may finally relent and buy the ES300. If the problem is still there, I'll probably give up and go buy the Accord instead.

tedescm1 · March 2003

Let me know your impressions after you drive the ES300.

tedescm1 · March 2003

Hard to beleive that a company like Lexus would
not take positive action on the trans...

wrd · March 2003

My 02 has what has been described as a "lean mixture stumble". Most noticable around 40mph, less noticable but still noticable at most other speeds. Lexus Customer Hotline says it is a lean mixture, originally to improve emissions, and a fix is due around July. My 3rd Lexus(and probably last) and I am upset that they would release a model and take so long to fix it. The stumble is very annoying.

tedescm1 · March 2003

I do not blame you for being annoyed. I am surprised they have not responded more quickly to resolve the problem. I called the service department of several different Lexus dealers to ask about the problem and they told me there is no problem in most cars. I was told that it's just a few cars and they are putting in chips to fix the problem.

Does the 03 model have the same trans problem?

How do you access the Lexus Customer Hotline?

es300trans · March 2003

I own a 2002 ES300. I have brought the car back three times regarding the shuddering, surging and jerking transmission problems. They finally admitted that there was a problem the third time (one year after i owned the car). But, they have not promised to fix it or do anything about it. I will never buy a Lexus again.

tedescm1 · March 2003

I've been looking at an ES 300 and i can tell you that Lexus continues to deny that there are concerns with any of their transmissions.

Thanks for relating your bad experieice.

I will profit from it....

daytona01 · March 2003

The problem as I understand:
    Several ES300 owners have complained about the problem that when trying to accelerate... (highway merging or passing)... at about 50 mph...
the transmission confuses on whether to stay at or go up gear (to save gas) OR down gear (for quick acceleration)

    You want to accelerate so you keep pumping on gas... but it doesnt know what to do so no respond...(in a noticeable period) And then suddenly the car speed off

Question for who are having problem:
    How does your transmission problem happen ?...
    Does it happen all the time or just occasionally ?
    It's stall for how long ?... few seconds ?

    If you take it little bit easier on gas when passing or merging
    Or if you step on gas and no respond can you just take it easy on gas pedal then try again... Does it still happen?

     I think the reason it suddenly speed of.... b/c it changes to low gear and your rpm is high

My test drive:
    I planning to buy an ES 300 and did a test drive last weekend...
    While cruising at about 40-50 mph... I tried (suddenly) pump on gas... the transmission responded little slow (not as fast as my 2 doors Daytona or the Acura TL)... but I think it is OK for a 4 doors sedan...

   The car I drove is 2003 with Premium package, VSC + brake assist + traction control, HID, wood trim

es300trans · March 2003

The problem that you have described is not the worst of it. Picture this, you are coasting along at 45 mph (e.g., no acceleration at all) and the car suddenly shudders. It does not happen all the time. You will only realize it after you own it. By then its too late. Do a search in google on ES300 transmissions problems and you will see that there are quite a few of us out there. Also, read Edmunds own "full road test" review of the ES300:

"Owners of the redesigned ES 300 have complained long and loud about the transmission. During our testing, we found when driving normally the five-speed automatic shifted imperceptibly. But when exercising the car or driving aggressively, the slushbox responded with harsh upshifts and soggy, delayed downshifts, behaving as though it were utterly confused about what the driver wanted it to do."

This problem bothers me as well, but I could live with this one. Its the shuddering while coasting problem that I can't deal with. And again, it does not occur frequently enough during a test drive. I only noticed it after the first week after I had purchased it. What makes me really angry is that they denied the problem for so long. And after they admit there is an issue, they won't fix it. Utterly frustrating.

daytona01 · March 2003

Es300trans:

Did you try to contact with high level of Lexus ?

If they know problem and don't fix.. I think you can take some legal action with them.... (for violation of warranty agreement)

I searched the web... some people also have the transmission problem of 2002 model... they file a complain at http://www.bigclassaction.com => category Automotive.

I went there and want to read more information... but somehow the complain link is no longer available... (I don't know the case was dropped b/c their cars was fixed or there is some solution, settlement...etc... you may want to contact them)

tedescm1 · March 2003

To: es300trans

Do you have a 2002 or 2003?

Lexus claims the problem is fixed on the 2003.

tx.

es300trans · March 2003

2002

es300trans · March 2003

If you know of anyone else with a similar complaint, please encourage them to register it at www.BigClassAction.com. I did.

daytona01 · March 2003

es300trans: you just file the complain ???
or long time ago... any respond ?

I went to www.bigclassaction.com and search for the complain:

http://www.bigclassaction.com/class_action/complaint_form_lexus.h- tml

=> "This case is no longer accepting plaintiffs"

es300trans · March 2003

daytona01:
I just submitted my complaint based on your post #12, thanks. I was not aware of that site. The fact that there was a prior case that is no longer there at least assures me that the problem may be bigger than we all know. You found a very interesting piece of information.

wrd · March 2003

FYI. I brought my 2002 ES300 in to the dealer to fix a few rattles. They gave me a 2003 as a loaner. It also has a "lean engine stumble". Brand new car(4000 miles).I don't know if this is the trans problem you have all been discussing.The trans seems to shift fine. The car just seems to occassionally "shudder" around 40mph. Also at other speeds, but most noticable around 40.

es300trans · March 2003

Yes, this appears to be the same problem that my 2002 Lexus is having. So the shuddering is not the transmission? The lexus dealer made it sound like it was. Does your 2002 ES300 have the "lean engine stumble"? What is the "lean engine stumble"? Have you discused whether or not the "lean engine stumble" can be fixed with the dealer? Thanks wrd for your info.

wrd · March 2003

It seems that others may have a trans problem. I assume that their cars are being diagnosed correctly. I originally thought my car had a trans problem, but the tech at the dealership went for a ride with me and diagnosed it as a stumble. A problem they are aware of and can do nothing about at this time. The computer controls the mixture. I called the 800 number in the back of the owners manual to verify. The person there was aware of the problem and said they were working on a fix and it should be available by July.

daytona01 · March 2003

I found some info that you may want to read
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h57.pdf
http://www.sdsefi.com/techtemp.htm

wrd · March 2003

I couldn't open the first link, but,the second seemed to deal with cold start-up/run. My 300 has the stumble even after being driven for several hours. It is especially noticable at approx. 40mph,but is noticable at higher speeds more as a vibration. It feels almost like wheel balance at 70/80 mph, but the wheel balance has been checked and rechecked.It is annoying enough that I would not be able to drive this car daily.(wifes car). I drive a LS400(my second one) and if Lexus cannot or will not fix the 300 I would be hesitant to buy another Lexus. Again, the 2003 loaner did the same thing.

es300trans · March 2003

wrd: I agree. I told the Lexus dealer that if they didn't fix the problem, this will be the first and last Lexus I will ever buy. How can I trust them?

With regard to the shuddering/lean engine stumble, when I am coasting at about 40-45 mph. the car will shudder without any acceleration. Is this the same for you (your wifes' car)?

wrd · March 2003

I have not noticed the shudder when off the gas. It seems to be during normal acceleration through the 40/45 mph range that it is the most noticable. Again, while I do drive the car on occasion, I drive it as seldom as possible. Perhaps if I drove it every day, I would notice more. I am waiting for some carpet clips now. When it goes in for that, I intend to pressure them for more explanation.

pkorman1 · March 2003

The transmission bucks between 1800 and 2000 rpm's. It is terrible at shifting in traffic. Example, slowing down for a red light, the light turns green and you hit the gas and it bucks. It does not shift smoothly. Lexus promised a fix with the 2003 model. It does the same thing. They keep clearing the computer. It is good for maybe a day or so. SEE THE LEMON LAW!

es300trans · March 2003

wrd: sounds like two problems. i notice that when i accelerate at times, the car will stumble a bit. this must be the lean engine stumble issue. the car also shudders around 40-45 mph when not acclerating; this must be the transmission issue that i was talking to the dealer about. now i understand.
pkorman1: i notice the bucking as well. very annoying. but, one of many annoying issues with the ES300.

daytona01 · March 2003

Lexus has a slow sale for last 2 months...
for ES: 8548 vs 10,368 .... about 20% decline compare to last year
(http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp)

This month, Lexus has some kind of dealer rebate (info from www.carsdirect.com) to kick up sale and help clean up their over stock... and that's why we have seen a lot of ES commercial recently...

I waited for the end of month (another tip from several people at Emunds board)... This Thursday.. I brought home an ES... for just 32K... with premium pkg ( leather & 6 CDs ) + heated seat + HID + wood trim + VSC.... (sticker 36522)...

I'm very aware of the tranmission problem ... but so far all I have counted is about 50 owners (surely there are more) have that problem... and most are 2002 model....
so compare that number to more than 50,000 ES sold last year.... that is about 0.1%

I cross my finger and enjoy my beautiful Alabaster Metallic with black leather.

I hope Lexus will soon solve the problem of their program with the tranmission...
that will be a happy day for everybody...

Without that problem... ES is a beatifull car, isn't it ???

I wish you all the best

Drive safe..

joker2108 · March 2003

Es330

is the Es330 coming out this year? If so I might wait for it.

Anyone know what features it will have?

canuck13 · March 2003

I understand that the 04 Sienna uses the same transmission. Here is what I just posted on the Sienna site. Does this sound the same as the ES300 problems:

I wish I had checked this site before buying my 04 Sienna. I only have about 100 miles on mine and I absolutely hate the transmission. I have it into Toyota to look at today but after reading these posts, I'm sure they are going to say it is working as designed. I've noticed 3 separate problems. First, when you go around a corner at low speed it seems like you are in neutral when you try to accerate. Second, when you are coming to a stop, occasionally, you feel like someone has bumped you from behind. Third, (like some of the posts here) when you hit the gas hard (like when trying to pass) the engine revs up to the red line but there is no power. I think this is a transmission problem, not an engine problem.

es300trans · March 2003

canuck13: Sorry to hear about your problems so early on. Seems very similar (the clunkiness and jerking). It would seem that they would fix these problems with the transmission on their new cars. I am glad I heard this from you. My wife and I were thinking about buying a AWD Sienna but two cars with the same problem is just too much for me.

ramza39 · April 2003

I have read through almost all the postings and it seems the ES300 really has transmission problem. I am going to test drive this car soon and can someone please tell me what should I do in order to "get" this problem during the test drive. Also, should I consider this car? Have they fixed the problem in 2003 cars?

daytona01 · April 2003

1. The transmission problem:
A lot people (my count about 50) have complained:
- Transmission responds slow (noticeable) when trying to pass (at speed 40-50 mph)
- some people (2) also complained when cruising at 40-50 mph the car suddenly shudders...

Current logic for the transmission probably is: try to shifting to high gear.. to save gas, and gain quiet... The car will try to study your driving pattern... and making decision
But sometimes... the transmission confuse whether to shift to low gear for quick accelerate or high gear....

2. My research: Ive research for 6 months almost daily.... (Im a computer software engineer known a little bit about basic mechanic... I work with the internet and I read Edmunds everyday).
Ive counted there are about 50 people complained about the transmission...
- Most of them are 2002 model.
- Few people said 2003 model have it too... but no one clearly said they owned 03 and have problem
- And some people said Lexus claimed their 2003 model is fixed.

3. The risk:
    So, compare that number 50 ( there're probably more.. because people may didn't known or didn't complained on internet) to more than 50 thousands ES sold last year .... it is about 0.1%
   Thus, yes, there is clearly a chance of having transmission problem with 2002 model.
   For 2003 model it is un-confirmed if have, the chance I believe will be small.

   If you are afraid of the problem... you can wait until Sept for the new ES330.... with the bigger engine... and probably a new program for transmission (the price for the new ES330 will be at sticker though)

4. Our drive test:
   The car I drove test is 2003 model and doesn't have problem... (I tried a lot of suddent acceleration... and cruising for 10 minutes at 40-50mph)

5. We bought:
    Last week, my brother-in-law and I... we bought 2 cars for the little less than 32K each... (list price 36552)... more than 4.5K discount...

6. Why we bought ES:
We've started to look for new cars since August last year... Our list are: Altima, Mazda 6, Accord, Acura TL, and Lexus ES300
   - Altima: nice body but interior is so cheap
   - TL: last year model.. Once the new Accord came out... we remove TL out of our list
   - 6: just has zoom-zoom noise...
   - Accord EX-V6: our top choice... 240Horse good value.. lot of feature for the price...
   - ES: not sporty as Accord or TL, rich interior, pricey options..

Accord was top of our list.. But, Honda dealer didn't give us good deal (add $$ for silver color, window etch, 1K for extended warrant, hefty dealer fee) total at 25K...
But, on March... www.carsdirect.com.. (I've monitored the price almost everyday) and suddenly see ES300 has rebate.. (Still more expensive than Accord of course).. but in our reachable range... So, we went to Lexus dealer... to take a drive test to see how different Accord vs ES...

Our truly intention... is to give ES a shot... if not remove ES out of out list... and nail down our deal with Accord

We have a good deal for ES... not only just the car and the price... but also... with Lexus dealer... totally different with Honda, Acura dealers.. that we have visited...

The price, good service and pleasant treatment outweighs the unknown small risk of transmission problem

So, we decided go for it... (And cross finger.. wish that 2003 model is fixed)

7. Worst case scenario:
If 2003 hasnt fixed the chance of having problem is small I think the problem is just the decision logic in the algorithm of shifting gears program for the transmission...
Those talent, well-paid engineers at Lexus probably will be able to find out solution for it.... if they can't... they can hire me... :-)

If not... since I bought it with a big discount... it probably will be less hurt to trade in to get a different car...

8. My ES:
   Brought it home last Thursday I've put 170 miles on it.... I had a 140 miles up-state round trip in the weekend with a lot of cruising (of course), hill mountain climbing and passing
So far, the car is wonderful... the transmission responds fine....The leather seat (probably b/c new) is a little bit hard though... I'm very happy with the car

I'm following the instruction from the manual ... use premium gas, no hard braking, no hard accelerating and no racing for the first 1000 miles

Hope it may help... and good luck with your research

es300trans · April 2003

I would like to say that the ES300 would be awesome if it weren't for the transmission issues. I transport little kids around town and I can tell you, the car feels very safe and build quality is very good. The car has 15k miles now and has not broke down or had any other problems. So while annoying, it does not appear to be a reliability issue.

daytona01 · April 2003

Dealer rebate is expired... carsdirect.com.. (for my NJ zip code) shows price at 33,360 (1K higher compare to March) for a car listed at 36,552

Yes.. I totally agree with es300trans... ES300 is an awesome car...

es300trans:
I hope they will find solution for your car transmission...
Also, I heard from Edmunds.. some people (2)complained with Lexus and got a $2000 voucher... from Lexus toward purchasing any Toyota or Lexus... Why don't you give it a shot...

rtorreca · April 2003

I was exactly in the same boat as you more than 13 months ago. Before I bought my 02 ES300, I've heard some rumblings about the transmission problems but made exactly the same assumption you have - that I might be lucky enough NOT to be in the .1% that's having the problem. I guess I was not that lucky. Now, I absolutely loathe this car. If I can do it all over, I would have stuck with my 99 EX-V6 Accord. Man I miss that car!

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your new lexus. I know there's plenty of people here who absolutely enjoy theirs. Good luck and keep crossing those fingers!

es300trans · April 2003

I think that the number is higher than .1%. Just because only 50 or so people have posted issues regarding the es300 transmission does not imply that the % is .1. I would argue that only a certain personality type with decent computer skills would post on the internet. For example, I am a type A and am 37 years old with decent computer skills. If someone could figure out what % of Lexus es300 owners have this personality type, then we would be closer to the true number. Since the average age of lexus owners in mid 50s, I would conjecture that only a small group of this age group would understand the computer well enough to post on the internet. The % type A? Your guess is as good as mine. But lets conservatively assume that 10% of ES300 owners have good enough computer skills and 10% of the population of ES300 owners have a type A personality. Time to post is also another factor. But lets keep it simple. This would imply that approx. 10% of 2002 Lexus ES300 owners have the problem. Who knows what the true number is. But its a lot larger than .1%.

zueslewis · April 2003

in two years of researching lemon law cases, I have never seen an ES300 transmission or engine management problem. I look at cases all over the Northeast and there are plenty of ES300s in our area.

rtorreca · April 2003

I agree with you that it's much higher than .1% but I used that number just for the sake of argument. It's pointless to try and figure out the real number since there really is no way of finding out - unless you have access to lexus service records.

es300trans · April 2003

It's early in the process. You need to wait approx. 18 months before you can file Lemon Law in my state. You may see some cases with the 2002 shortly. As you can see below from edmunds.com, you need to attempt to have the car repaired a number of times before you can use the law to the fullest extent:

What is a "lemon"? A "lemon" is a vehicle that continues to have a defect that substantially impairs its use, value or safety. In general, if the vehicle has undergone a "reasonable" number of repair attempts for the same warranted defect within the warranty period, and the defect has not been repaired, the vehicle qualifies as a "lemon" under the "lemon laws" of most states. The number of "repair attempts" needed before the lemon law applies varies by state and may also depend on the defect: typically, safety-related defects require fewer repair attempts. However, keep in mind that if the defect is not covered by a warranty, it is not likely to be covered by your states lemon law

zueslewis · April 2003

You need to have "repetitive or unrepaired problems" that "substantially impair the use, safety or value" of a vehicle - (Magnusson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act.

You don't have to wait 18 months - the problems have to have had occured within the FIRST 18 months of ownership.

Additionally, a vehicle doesn't have to meet the requirement of your state's lemon law for you to seek damages under Mag-Moss.

es300trans · April 2003

but it takes time to build a case. Plus, Lexus may fix the problem in which case, there is no need to push the issue. I am in a wait and see position myself, as I am sure, many other 2002 ES300 owners are.

zueslewis · April 2003

I certainly know what a "lemon" is - I've seen about 4,000 of them in the last 2 years! That word is overused to describe vehicles that don't meet the guidelines.

es300trans · April 2003

While the transmission and lean engine stumble issues are annoying, they may not meet the Lemon Law guidelines. I am not going to waste my time fighting Lexus. Its not worth it.

I told them about the problems which they admitted to me. The dealer has been really great in trying to help me out, but they don't have a fix. This decision needs to come from Toyota Sr. Mgmt.

ramza39 · April 2003

thanks for your very detailed analysis and i will try to perform many sudden acceleration during the test drive. i am also considering some other cars: TL, 325i, A4 3.0 and accord V6. you have any experiences with these cars?

A4 3.0 - very good fit and finish; you open the hood and the layout of the engine is very nice; interior quality is very good except the position of the hand brake is awkward; test drove it twice and i think the exhaust is a bit loud

TL - average fit and finish; paint isn't good as i expected and the interior is rather dumb, so i didn't test drive it

325i - test drove a 330i two years ago and it was the best at that time; will test drive it soon but in my opinion, the options are expensive

accord - haven't been to the dealer yet

ES300 - the styling is pretty elegant and the fit and finish is good; very comfortable and lots of leg room but there is one thing i don't like: have you noticed the tailpipe has a very large clearance with the chasis and it is like hanging loose and i don't understand why toyota would make this mistake because i have noticed corolla and camry also have this problem.

daytona01 · April 2003

Consumer review
Consumer guide rate ES300 at 70 point... highest score in its class
(http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id- /23264.htm)

You should read Consumer report Auto buying guide 03 (come out this month April)
  TL and ES300 are recommended... Accord V6 (240hp) is also a nice car
  I didn't pay attention at other cars...
  About Reliability: TL top then ES300 (better than avg).... 3 series on the other side (worse than avg)

A4 and 3 series: They are kind of small.. about the size of corolla or civic...
(I even feel the back seat has less room)
My friend got his 325 last Dec... his car is fine.. he doesn't have any problem yet...it's a nice car.. but I can't sit in the back of his car...
I consider they are like a luxury version of honda civic with rear wheel drive

- I would not go for A4 or 3 series... If you like rear wheel drive performance... go for IS300 or G35 (260hp - motor trend car of the year)
- Accord V6... good value, strong performance, nice car, close but not reach luxury level yet... (save a place for TL)
- TL (a luxury version of Accord)...03 is the last year model... the new design 04 is comming soon
- ES300 (a luxury version of Camry with a lot of borrowing from LS430) is a family sedan with conservative driving... if you like to enjoy driving.. Lexus also has IS or GS

daytona01 · April 2003

Here are how I choose my car.. hope it may help..

- Find out all cars in market that in the range that you think you can afford..
(if you are not rush.. look for future cars too... own the car we like is priceless... thus... it's worth to wait)
- Eliminate cars that you don't like
- Research (internet, news, friends) for the cars that on the list
   . concentrate on reliability... and don't care much about performance (you should do the drive test yourself)
or style (people's styles are different)
   . listen for advice... and make decision yourself...
   . don't forget to check the insurance rate (you will be suprised to find out.. Accord is little bit higher than more expensive ES)
   . you should also take a look at "true cost to own" from edmuns.. thus you can check with your bugde...
   . narrow your list by eliminate cars that have too much trouble

- Go to dealers... have close look, have personal feeling and drive test the car...
- Your list now should have very few cars
        . good reliability
. in the range you can afford.
        . pass all of your research

- Finally, go with your feeling and your heart...
if you are still not sure.. why not drive test again and again... try to do all of them in the same days...

mmccloskey · April 2003

Greetings all:

I have been the proud owner of a 2002 ES300 (everything but AVS) for nearly nine months and have yet to experience the transmission issue that has plagued some owners. My vehicle was manufactured in June 2002, and I purchased it in mid-July of 2002. I have a bit over 7,000 perfect miles and look forward to many more.

Most of my driving is highway and the car accelerates in a very smooth manner without any kicks, jiggling or abrupt shifting.

I was out and about today in the Lexus and payed very close attention to the behavior of the transmission and did notice a slight 'lugging' at 40-45 mph and the RPM's were about 1,400, maybe less. I then pressed the accelerator and the car downshifted and accelerated without delay or hesitation. I have used premium since day one, changed the oil twice in 7,000 miles with Mobil-1 5W30 and have nothing but praise for this finely crafted automobile.

I have monitored this forum for some time and do hope that those with the tranny problem will be provided a 'fix' by Lexus. I feel I made the best choice in purchasing this car and I would to it all over again if given the chance.

Smooth and serene motoring to all!

M. J. McCloskey

bartalk2 · April 2003

Daytona01 claims his research on this board yielded many complaints of transmission problems on '02 models, but few or none on '03s.

Is this true? Anybody with an '03 having the common transmission problems discussed here? Please report. If not, maybe Lexus fixed the problem after all.

kennynmd · April 2003

I bought an 03 last year and it has no problems whatsoever. Not sure if the problem is fixed or did I just get lucky. Haven't owned many vehicles because I'm young but this by far is the best vehicle I've driven and rode in.

daytona01 · April 2003

bartalk2: not just this Edmunds board... I use google, yahoo search engine to search for "ES 300 transmission problem"... I also went to bigclassaction.com, read owners and editor review at carpoint.msn.com, carreview.com, yahoo groups...

And read review at other auto websites such as:
motor trend, caranddrive, newcartestdrive.com, new-cars.com, epinions, consumerguide, consumerreview, canadadrive... etc...

(Worked with the internet is my daily job since 96.. my work experience include part of a team development website for an auto site in 98)

My count (as I have previous declared.. there're probably many more)... doesn't represent the real number....

  - some owners who have problem and very mad... they posted the problem everywhere.. (so I may counted multiple time... if I see same name I counted just one)
  - some owners didn't know they have problem
  - some owners don't know (or didn't use internet) how to post it internet..
  - they may post their messages at some board... I didn't visit

(*) Lexus is the one who has the most accurate counter... Unfortunately, they didn't post it on internet...:-(

bartalk2 · April 2003

Very thorough search! Waiting for '03 owners to chime in, whether or not they're having transmission problems.

richm4 · April 2003

I really would have liked to have bought the ES300 because it's a beautiful car, but the transmission problem was too much of a risk for me.

I'm buying a different car tomorrow, but am hoping that when I'm in the market again in 3 years or so, the transmission problem will have been fixed.

I wonder how many potential customers Lexus is losing due to their inability to fix this problem.

Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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