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I'm now casually shopping for a 997, but I'm in different circumstances today than in 2002. I can deal with a hassle or two without blowing a gasket on having spent top dollar for a Porsche and expecting Honda reliability. And there really is no Honda/Acura substitute for the 911.
On the hardtop, I strongly suggest you drive one before buying one. I almost dished out $3k for the S2000 hardtop. At 47 lbs, it fit over the (lowered) convertible top. But it made the 9,000 rpm engine feel like you were sitting in a blender set at the highest speed. The person who let me try theirs actually used it 3 times before retiring it to their basement. The Boxster is much less high strung than the S2000, so that might make a hardtop less offensive on the noise front. But it is not convenient to use or store and, IMO, of little value. I never regretted not getting it and I did drive the S2000 throughout the year (except in snow) in the DC area.
Like the S2000, the hardtop goes on after the ragtop is folded down. The good news is you still don't lose any trunk space, and the car gets much quieter. All newer Boxster's, since '03, and the S model, since '01 I believe, have a multiple layered soft top that's quite good.
I'm on my 5th Porsche, and second Boxster, and they go in the shop once a year, for scheduled maintenance. Most of my Boxster friends will tell you the same story. When you need work, it's more expensive than a Lexus or Honda, but if you treat them well, they return the favor. Yes, I agree an S2000 is cheaper to maintain than a Boxster, but then it's a cheaper car, isn't it?
Actually, in some ways it isn't. The S2000 would have a fully amortized cost of over $45,000 if Honda did not write off virtually all of its ground up development costs as a "corporate marketing" expense. The base Boxster, on the other hand, yileds Porsche in excess of 25% profit on the car; the "S" even more. Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world, measured in gross margin; and they are far from the most efficient. It was guessed that the S2000 would cost Porsche more than $45,000 to produce. This information is from a confidential industry report by a business school buddy who is a senior director with a top strategic management consulting firm. Can't name him/it, but you can take a guess at Boston Consulting, Bain or McKinnsey.
At the suggestion of several, I am now considering a new Boxster S. I have a test drive scheduled for this Thursday, weather permitting. I expect I will like it very much, based upon the improvements made since I was last seriously looking in late 2001.
Just curious, why are you on your second Boxster? The resale value of the $60k Boxster S that I considered in late 2001 is now about $35k in the DC area, for a $25k hit. The resale value of the $32k S2000 is about $23k for a $9k hit. So it doesn't seem like a good car to buy and sell/trade as opposed to buy and hold. Perhaps you are leasing? Also, how have your other Porsches been in terms of reliability?
The base MSRP is $53,900, with an invoice of approximately $47,100 a $6,800 (14% mark-up). The configuration I am looking at comes in with an MSRP of about $61,500.
What are the best prices buyers are getting?
I moved up to get the more powerful engine and glass rear window in '03. I had someone who wanted my '99 and I got a heck of a deal on the flip. I really wasn't actively looking to sell it. The only problems I've had, knock wood, were with my first Porsche, a 911T, because I didn't know how to treat her. Even then the problems were minor. Maybe I've just been lucky.
Far be it from me to argue with either your confidential sources ;-) or resale values which vary wildly. Good luck with your test drive.
Miles:5,829
Price: $32,995
5 Speed Manual, RWD, Air Conditioning, Power Steering, Power Windows, Power Door Locks, Telescoping Wheel, AM/FM Stereo, Single Compact Disc, Dual Front Air Bags, Front Side Air Bags, ABS (4-Wheel), Leather, Alloy Wheels
If its clean
One question to throw out to the long-time owners though. The dealer charges $200 for an oil change. Is there a safe alternative to this, or is there a good reason for the big charge?
If you don't know much about your car, it's a small investment to keep in their good graces, and it can't hurt to have an experienced eye check the undercarriage, if they do. If you want to save $100+ do it yourself. A web search will get you pictured instructions, it's easy, you don't need a lift, and after the first one, all it will take you is 30 minutes. Plus, you will feel good about it.
I wouldn't bring a Boxster to any Jiffy Lube type place, and I won't get into how often you need the change the oil. Check you Owner's Manual.
Boxster reliability is good but not stellar. There is a small risk factor for getting one that will require an engine replacement and other less toxic but annoying problems, but I repeat the risk factor is small. Wish we knew accurate figures but I don’t think anyone but Porsche knows. It’s too early to assess 05 reliability although I haven’t heard of anything abnormal.
As far as driving, either one is apt to please depending on your expectations. Boxster S reviews have always been spectacular and as stated in my previous post I think the current non-S version is perhaps the best it has ever been. So if you are passionate about these cars and can get past the fact that they are in no way, shape, or form a part of your investment portfolio then jump in and enjoy the ride.
The S year 04 has about 5K Mi, and comes with Bose, all leather, 6 gear shift, PSM, 260 Hp, etc and an asking price of U$75M.
The brand new Boxter comes with standard equipment and goes for U$65M.
I do not know if there is a big technological change with the new models, I understand that in terms of safety (airbags, etc) the new models are much better.
Sincerely I have no idea which way to go. Any ideas are very welcome. Thnks
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However, and I would like other opinions, I believe the actual cost of ownership over 3-4 years between the 911 and Boxster S is not that different, given the poor resale value of the Boxster compared to the 911. I figure the Boxster S after 4 years will have lost roughly $28k+ in value (around $30k in actual trade in value) whereas the base 911 will likely be worth at least $50-55k, meaning a similar amount of depreciation.
I can comfortably afford either of these cars, so the better deal appears to be a 911 over a Boxster S, given all of the additional features, luxury and performance.
sakanuki:
I considered using the Boxster depreciation to my advantage and trest drove several used Boxster S models that were low mileage and well maintained. I even drove a new leftover 2004 Boxster S being sold for $48,000, with a sticker of $57,500. However, if you think there is no comparison between a 2002 Boxster S and a Honda S2000, then there is similarly no comparison between the 2002 Boxter S and the completely redesigned, more powerful 2005 Boxster S (which uses many of the 911 suspension and chassis components).
If I were on a more limited budget, I'm not sure I wouldn't take a new Honda S2000 over an "outrageously priced" 2002 Boxster S. I do not believe that, even with low mileage, a used Boxster S isn't going to hit you up for expensive maintenance and big depreciation. Certainly less depreciation than a brand new Boxster S, but also, unfortunately, much less of a car. If you prefer not to believe me, don't test drive a 2005.
Spiritinthesky... the Boxster always shared components with the 911, not just the new one. From the front end to the back of the seats they have been virtually identical. Major differences—engine displacement, stroke and aspiration, engine placement and rear suspension. The debate never ends with many claiming the Boxster is superior in handling.
Thanks
The analogies of a sledgehammer vs. a scalpel have been used to compare the Corvette and Boxster. But you need to get your own butt into each if you are serious about ever buying one.
Base Model..................54,700 (Apparantley there's a price increase on the 06)
Seal Grey Metallic.............825
Stone Grey Full Leather...2,095
Bose System w/windstop.1,185
Bi-Xenon Package...........1,090
Tiptronic S......................3,210
Heated Seats.....................480
19" Carrera S Wheels.......1,550
Leather Steering Wheel.......490
Sport Chrono w/out PCM.....920
Floor Mats........................ 115
Misc..................................910 (destination charge)
TOTAL............................67,570 (Plus Ca Tax & Lic apprx 10%)
Seems a lot for an entry level Porsche?
Things I could do without:
19" wheels... Just bling.. 18" not big enough for you?
Sport Chrono? Not sure what that is, but $920 is a lot for instrumentation..
Tiptronic? $3210, and your car will be worth less on re-sale than one without it.. I understand that an automatic might be necessary... but....
I just knocked over $5K off your car, right there...
Lastly... Did you negotiate a discount? You aren't paying sticker, are you?
regards,
kyfdx
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also, anyone know about the engine TSB...porsche replacing defective engines.
dslstl
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Don't let them trick you. Negotiating a lease is no different than negotiating a purchase. The first thing you do is work on the price ( cap cost). In fact, you don't even have to say at that point if you are buying or leasing because it really makes no difference. The price is the same regardless. Residual value is stated and not negotiable. If it's too low, walk away and tell them why. The third item is the money factor ( interest rate). Edmunds has a great explanation of leasing math. Learn it and be prepared.
I thought about an 05' Boxster at 40k or so but I think I may just spend 30k on a new Mustang GT cab and put 10k in my pocket. In a surprising anomoly of the market the new Mustangs are actually selling for MSRP and the Porsches are being discounted heavily. Who would have guessed that?
My wife and I really like the car.....our children are in their early 20s and we want a weekend sports car for ourselves...I am trying to resist, but................
We are also considering new vette...your Mustang GT idea is something to consider...thanks for taking the time to respond
secondly - the vette is a completely different experience. even if you are not into sports cars, you will be able to tell the difference in how the car handles/performs. and the GT is NO comparison to either..
the dealership called again today and lowered their pricing, so we're getting close, but not there yet.
thanks for your input....hopefully, we be cruising the roads in a new boxster soon.
Reading the Msg on this forum I understand that you can get 6-9% of MRSP
Also some one mentioned that waiting to Dec-Jan will be a good idea to avoid depreciation.
Does anyone have any idea how much off MRSP can I get when buying a new 2005 in Jan?
Also how much should I pay for a 2005 used boxster s (dealer request 52000 - Fred baker in OH) ?
As for a used Boxster S, I would want to get at least 12-15% off list if it's under 3,000 miles, more if the mileage is higher. But personally, I won't buy any sports car used. If I'm going to spend between $55k and $100k (911), I want to break it in myself.
and found a car from a private seller that has only 5k miles.
It is an '04 S Tip.
What would you offer?
Thanks
Anthony
P.S. For the past several weeks, Select Auto Imports in Alexandria, VA has been advertising a new (86 miles) 2004 Boxster S 6-speed with an MSRP of $57k+ for $48.5k - and still no takers as of yesterday. It seems that many shoppers (myself included) feel that the new 2005 redesign is a significant improvement in both performance and appearance. If you are looking to save money, I might recommend considering a new 2005 base Boxster (240hp) over a used 2004 Boxster S. You give up 18 horsepower, but get a much nicer interior and, IMO, better looking exterior.
I have to be careful, since I've been (justifiably) censored by the Host before for being impolite in my posts regarding automatic transmissions. However, it does seem highly contradictory to me that someone considering a Boxster S - one of the best performing roadsters on the market - would then consider paying in excess of $3,000 for a Tiptronic that will significantly stiffle it's performance and lessen the fun of driving a sports car.
Objectively, the Porsche Tiptronic has been criticized by many professional reviewers as being slow shifting and very unimpressive in performance. BMW, Ferrari and AMG have far superior SMG units (and even those have a performance penalty). I suggest you read through the reviews, but better yet, go out and test drive the Tip vs. the 6-speed yourself. A base Boxster with a 5-speed will virtually match a Boxster S Tiptronic. So not only are you are spending an additional $3,000 for this option, you are also negating the roughly $10,000 premium for the 3.2 liter engine, as far as acceleration goes.
Subjectively, unless one has a physical handicap, I believe there should be no reason for anyone not to get the 6-speed in the Boxster S. I have heard the excuses that manuals are difficult in stop and go traffic. I don't buy that for a minute. My wife and I live in DC and if the 2005 MDX we purchased came with a 6-speed, she would have paid extra for it. It is the first vehicle either of us has ever owned with an automatic in 30+ years of driving. My youngest daughter could shift my Honda S2000 from 1st to 2nd and back from the passenger seat flawlessly at the age of 5. Granted, I operated the clutch and we never went more than about 15 mph.
I'm am not on a mission to save the sports car world from automatic transmissions. But given that you had the foresight to post your question on Edmunds, I must respectfully and politely suggest you re-ask yourself the $3,000 (or, really, $13,000) question, "why"?
2004 S
In Service Date 06/04
5,000 Miles
Tiptronic
Metallic Paint
Heateed Seats
CD Console
Wheel Caps w/ Crest
Windstop
MSRP $57,500
Best Price Negotiated: $43,000 (Maybe $42,000 - Best Case Scenario)
Do I pull the trigger?
I would only buy an S, Tip, Metallic Paint if I bought a 987S which
puts me in the 57K price range less any discount. That discount
would still be over my budget which is already maxed at $43k.
So, knowing that, what do you think?
The RMS problem although well-known and not uncommon is not said to be rampant. Nobody really knows the occurrence rate because Porsche is mum about it
It should cost between $900-$1200 out-of-warranty at a Porsche dealer. Some owners have had it fixed without the problem returning. I have also heard of it re-occurring up to four times. I have also heard that Porsche will replace the engine as a matter of policy if the problem occurs three times under warranty. They will even cut some slack after warranty if it starts under warranty. I hope you have some left. If so don’t dawdle.
Severity ranges from considerable oil depletion to puddles of oil on the garage floor to small drops on the floor to small leaks that don’t even make it to the floor. Some people with the less-severe problems who are not covered under warranty wait until the clutch needs replacement because it minimizes labor cost. I suggest going to rennlist.com or other dedicated enthusiast sites where this is frequently discussed. Needless to say, the car needs to be assessed and if necessary repaired by a bona fide Porsche professional.
Also... if you really want a Tiptronic, that's great.. But, most don't... Bargain hard on that car, as the Porsche dealer will really knock it down on a trade offer..
In other words, just remove that $3K from the original MSRP... The Tiptronic is worth less than the manual as a used car..
regards,
kyfdx
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The car had an MSRP of $71,000, asking $46,000
2004 Boxster S
Tiptronic
Metallic Paint
Full Leather
Self Dim Mirrors & Rain Sensors
Power Seat Package
Bose sound package / windstop
Xenon Headlights
Heated Seats
18" Wheels Turbo
Porsche Crest
Cruise control
CD Changer
Carbon Package
2 1/2 Years "in service" date
11,000 miles
What is a fair price for me to buy it?
Thanks
Anthony
You have a great description there.. Copy and paste your post... and be sure to add your location (city/state), and interior/exterior color.
A professional can give you a good number..
Are you sure about 2.5 years? That would mean a sale date of January, '03 for an '04 model...
The two drawbacks I see are Tiptronic, and 2.5 years old....
regards,
kyfdx
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I am contemplating a brand new 2005 Boxster S 6-speed with an MSRP of approximately $60,800 that includes most of the items you describe above, plus the new sport chrono package, sport seats and sport steering wheel, 19" Carrara S wheels and, most importantly 22 more horsepower, a noticably improved suspension and an infinitely better looking interior (and exterior). I can buy this car for about $4,500 off MSRP, or approximately $56,300.
As both kyfdx and I have posted, the Tiptronic is a detriment, not an asset to the resale value of a Boxster S. Worse yet, it is a detriment to the performance and driving enjoyment of the vehicle itself. And I agree that the 2 1/2 year "in service" date makes no sense whatsoever. So, although I am hardly an expert at used car values, I think the first owner of this purported $71k vehicle got completely hosed and anyone who pays $46k for it now is getting seriously splashed.
Also, other issues such as maintenance as mentioned below in my email to the seller....
================================
(his response)
Hi Manny,
I usually take the car to the dealer or Andial Racing in LA. I dont do service on the car myself so I cant answer your question regarding repair work. I believe I have the service receipts.
Ethan.
================================
(I wrote)
Hey Ethan,
Maybe sometime next week after work. Also, where do you take it for service? I'm a little worried about repair cost when the time comes. I've done basic maintenance on bmws (1997 328i and 2001 530i - still have both) and was wondering how hard it would be to work on the Boxster - engine bay is cramped. How hard/easy to do an oil change? or change plugs? or brake pads? Got any weblinks that can answer these ????'s. And speaking of service, I'm assuming you have records, right?? Sorry for the concerns......
Thanks again,
Manny
Techart
As far as $71k MSRP, I have a copy of the original sticker and believe me, it is a shocker. I am guessing the dealership could have retired with the $$$ made on the options.
I understand that the new '05 S is beautiful as I test drove one this past weekend but it is beyond my budget. So, while an '04 has some sacrifices, it includes so many bells & whistles, that I am still happy. Remember, this is a significant improvement over my '99 Tiptronic.
While most Porsche lovers think that tiptronic is a "basterdization" of a true sports car, it is convenient and enjoyable.
Finally, I offered $40k and am waiting for an answer.
Thanks for the feedback.
Anthony
I'm not quite as surprised at the $71K MSRP... You can spend close to $9K just on leather, if you go all out.. Porsche option prices are just nuts...
regards,
kyfdx
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