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Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW
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Speaking of which, I've had my E60 for a few weeks and am finding it to be a good car overall, with the important items (handling, brakes, power, comfort) as good as the E39. Spent an hour in the driveway with the the I-Drive and got it figured out and programmed. No major problems to use anymore and it does a few things better than the old way. I particularly like the two programmable buttons on the wheel. Wife really like the seperate key reprogramming capability. We both like the integral emergency notification system.
I'd set up some items on the interface GUI differently, but the automobile technology transition to software buttons and indicators is a given. Too much economic incentive to do so. They just need to do it with more customization capability.
Odd item is that I tend to use the "manual" function a lot more than with my E39. I think this is because I can spend more time in the power band.
Well, it's too rational and thoughtful on this board. I'm going over to the E60 "BMW Tips" site where everyone flames each other. Fun to watch....
Best --
When I'm in my car, I want to DRIVE. I want to exult in the mechanical experience. When it's time to change radio stations, I want to push a button. To make it louder, I want to turn a knob. I do NOT want to go through a series of menus to accomplish these simple tasks!
No, I'm not a Luddite. But I work on a computer all day long, and when I get in my car, I don't want another one! You'd think BMW -- makers of the "Ultimate Driving Machine" -- would get this!
Correct me if I wrong, but you don't need idrive to adjust the radio.
I began asking various people what they thought of the design. I found that the "I like it" factor incresed sharply the younger the person -- 30-45 seemed to love it more often, whereas 45-60's were less attracted or were more likely to dislike it. No science to it, just opinions. Also, the age-favorable relation is just an impression; there were people I talked to who didn't fit the "profile", such as it was.
Anyway, setting aside all the angst that many feel about the design on the Boards, I wonder if anyone has ever seen a marketing study (and I'm sure BMW did a lot of them) with the reaction to the E60 design by age, sex, income etc.
As much as folks like to bash Bangle, no corporation makes a major investment and design decision on the merits of one person's opinion. And having worked for a German corporation, I can offer that a decision in that environment is far more consensus-driven than the non-German cliche about supposed German "top-down" management. Probaly no one has anything but their own opinion, but I'd sure be curious what the various marketing studies had to say about the E60.
I just have to chuckle at all the people saying how great i-drive 2.0 is. I wonder what they would be saying if they had tried i-drive 1.0.
First, i-drive 1.0 had a lot of bugs so you'd be programming memory seat controls and then the climate control would go out of whack blowing hot air on you in the middle of a humid summer, lotsa fun. Then I took the car (my parents have the first 7 series with i-drive 1.0) to the dealers 3 times for software upgrades, which wiped out previously programmed settings so you'd have to do it all over again. Also, remember that i-drive 1.0 goes in 8 directions, not 4, and it's quite easy to do a quarter turn too many, so often you'd find yourself in the wrong menu and have to backtrack.
Don't know how deep the menu systems go in i-drive 2.0 but in 1.0 they go 4 or 5 deep which is just too many.
Looks like BMW did a better job with idrive 2.0, but you need to realize that those improvements came at the expense and frustration of idrive 1.0 customers who paid to be guinea pigs. That may explain the level of frustration with this system.
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VCR players have so many different options, 99% of the consumers really only use about 5 of them, and the rest are wasted, and cause much frustration and confusion.
Then, it hit the Automobile in the 7 series, and what is one keystroke on the steering wheel of my Lincoln, becomes a programming task with a lawyer's disclaimer on a screen in the 7. How smart is that? Add to it, the constant glitches in the 1.0 I drive, and my partner's wife is ready to set her 7 on fire!
Simple - a concept lost on BMW, evidently.
BMW thinks and behaves like Bill Gates--make it satisfy BMW not the customer, and above all, make it unintuitive. Pity, because BMWs drive inituitively from the first mile, but their interior controls are clunky and infuriating, even after 40,000 miles.
I'm not fond of those designs, I don't own a Mac, IPOD or any Apple product. I'm a Windows type of guy. (gimme BSOD ). BMW without doubt would lose me, and others like me as a customer.
However, I can see Ive’s hand at exterior and interior styling. He has also expressed an interest in auto design even though he also states that he doesn’t believe he would be good at it—a modest self-assessment I disagree with. He has what it takes and what is missing at BMW.
It may be wise for auto manufacturers to lure him, but given their design mentality these days I doubt this will happen. It’s just too much of a maverick move considering he has no automotive experience.
Kd I work with Windows PCs and Macs intensely, toggling between them all day because I have to. I have no loyalty either way. PCs are Fords, Macs are Porsches. And this is not just my opinion.
You don't need to be an automotive design genius to develop an interface to an idrive type of system.
hope this helps
If you don't care about the extra power and are not a fan of Bangle designs, then maybe you'd be better off getting the last pre-Bangle 3s before he beats them with his ugly stick.
After people actually saw the e60 5-series, the e39 5-series actually went UP in price. So people who got the latest e39 5-series actually made money. Amazing, a luxury car that is actually an APPRECIATING asset.
IMO, I doubt that the same thing will happen with the 3-series b/c of the better engines.
The photoshopped 3's looked very nice. Although I think we'll have to wait a bit until we see the final version. --kdshapiro
I agree. They look OK to me too.
What a profound statement! While I really like the look of the new Beemers you are absolutely correct - BMW has always been about simplicity and beauty/elegant design. Are they now into "non-simplicity"?
Every new shape is hard to get used to... I have a hard time ascertaining what makes a car look good to me, but I know it when I see it. I don't think the photoshopped 3-series pictures look better than the current model, but I do like them, and I'm sure they will grow on me. Give it a couple of years and the E46 will look dated also... I used to love the E36, but the four-door really looks "old" now.
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E26 original 7 series
E21 original 3-series
E24 original 6-series
In my opinion the style of these are unbeatable in BMW's history. They are thoroughbreds. They have that minimal, geometric countenance. Very angular but just enough curvilinear balance. Also a great blend of symmetry and asymmetry. I would love to see them bring the look of these into the future. If they did so, I believe sales would absolutely go through the roof. They personify the technical image that BMW once had and should be striving for with styling. The current models are feeble attempts at fashion and are 180 degrees from the direction they should be going. BMW and MB have lost their heritage. Thankfully, Porsche has kept it.
Check out those wonderful bimmers, when BMW emerged from a styling cocoon with glory. The shots aren't that good but the site is fairly comprehensive in terms of being able to compare styling among BMW platforms:
http://www.bmwinfo.com/
the new 5 is growing on me, took quite a while to get used to but now its lookin ok, except for the rear end which stll looks like a copy of some japanese car design to me even until now. come to think of it the overall design of thenew 5 still look more like a japanese car than a german. is it just me or is anyone else feeling the same?
With respect to the Dame Edna/raptor eyebrow headlights, they're kind of funny and I'm OK with 'em.
The weird thing about Bangle's shapes is they look different in different colors. For some reason, the 5 series is repellent looking IMO in light colors.
In darker colors, the front looks good and the sides look OK, although I think the flame surfacing was overdone and should be toned down to make the car look slimmer on the sides.
OTOH, my wife loves the look of the new 5 series (except for the butt which she hates as well) whether it's in light or dark colors.
But my wife liking the design of something doesn't mean much b/c she has pretty awful and generally tawdry tastes, as she herself will admit.
It's unfortunate b/c she drags me around now on all her clothes shopping expeditions to have me approve every single outfit she gets b/c, according to her, she only gets compliments on the outfits and shoes I pick out for her.
Someday soon, I'll have to lie to her and tell her she looks great in the moo-moos she picks out for herself so I can get out of that most despised of all activities -- waiting for a woman to shop for her clothes.
I find the 5 lookin better in black or silver, but i find it lookin horrible in blue. still in any color the rear doesnt impress me.
lookin ok in the front and ugly in the rear, so turning japanese when you look from the side and overall shape i say yeah theyre losing directions
Best,
Sharon
bangles designs are more into being "aggressive" and "sporty", leaving the old theme which suggests "elegance" and "simplicity".
the new 7 is actually not bad (w/o the eyebrows) but they dont sell well.i think the real problem is they applied the design in the wrong market segment, in this case: modern styling in a conservative market.
I can't agree with this. How can you say BMW is trying to get more exclusive when they're producing the X3 and the 1-series, which are cheaper versions of X5 and 3-series?
I think BMW is trying to sell as many cars for as high a price as possible, as are all profit-driven manufacturers.
Is one reason why BMW kept MINI (and is promoting the heck out of it) as well as Rolls Royce. BMW wants sales at the low end and high end, and wants to dominate these respective niche markets.
Don't forget that Porsche almost was sold in the early 1990s. Not unlike what almost happened to BMW in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Both had severe sales and profit declines at the times that almost led to their demise. Yet another reason why size can matter.
How can you say BMW is trying to get more exclusive when they're producing the X3 and the 1-series, which are cheaper versions of X5 and 3-series?
Porsche has a similar system to BMW and Saugatak made me realize that, Porsche has the Boxter which is a lower end car and fairly uncomparable to the 911 (I know I own a 911), anyway the Boxter sells lots of modles to people who want the Porsche name and not the price, that would be the equivalent to the 1 or X3 of BMW marketed to people who want the BMW name but not the price, the Boxter gets the extra cash in to complete market R&D and customer feedback, then they develop cars like the GT and new 911 modles ect. Same concept and aim for BMW. BMW is a name of pride, and they do want many people to have them and show them off but do not want their cars to be seen on every road. The older modles were like this, when I was coming home from work yesterday I sat in my car and counted 6 BMW 5,3, and two 7 series (all old bodys) drive by in less than a minute, This is what BMW is not aiming for with their new bodys (According to BMW productions reps)
BTW they sold Land Rover
Boxster is not comparable to the 911? I'll say. It's lighter, has a superior design and balance due to the mid-engine design and, accordingly, it handles better. Did you also know that the 996 911 shares about 40% of its parts with the Boxster? They are virtually identical from the cabin forward. They have the same engine block and the Boxster S has the same 6-speed transmission. The only differences are the engine displacement, intake, rear suspension and engine placement. The 911 Carrera has more power and that's it. Finally, ever wonder why the Carrera GT has a mid-engine design like the Boxster, unlike the 911?
Also, take a look at August Motor Trend and see how the Boxster S blows away the Z4, Audi TT and 350Z, then tell me if this is about a badge stuck on the hood and about people who are not willing to pay extra for a better car.
Lastly, if you are so unconcerned about badges and spending money, tell me why you didn't go for the NSX, a car that outperforms the 911?
I don't believe BMW has two platforms that share parts like the Boxster and 911. And it's because Porsche really can't afford to do it any other way.
As far as people buying badges—you will always have them. But this has nothing to do with the integrity of the cars they buy.
.... Wrong board for this,
The 911 is rear engine and mine handles wonderfly pulling almost .9 lateral G's, can your boxter do that? ... Thats all Im going to say bout my 911
I don't believe BMW has two platforms that share parts like the Boxster and 911. And it's because Porsche really can't afford to do it any other way
... engine wise yes but other than that, X3 has parts borrowed from the Z4, 5 borrowed parts from 7, 6 borrowed parts from 7 and 5, and X5 has 3 parts mixed in with it, X3 and X5 have the same optional engine 3.0, X3 uses the 2.5 liter too.... I dont know where you got that... Ive seen them being installed so dont try to convince me that they all use separate parts that uneconomical, Yes the Boxter is not to be taken lightly and Porsche puts out great cars, but it is a step lower than any of Porsches other cars, that is their aim no matter how it preforms they are more seen on the road and MUCH cheaper than 911t's or any other Porsche, while they have the same engine block they do not share power and they are asembled differently how slightly it may be...
But this board is aimed at BMW so lets try to keep on the subject
Interesting theories. I'm really not sure what BMW was trying to do with Bangle so your guesses are as valid as anyone else's.
My guess is that BMW just picked the wrong man for the job. They wanted to be bold and daring and it didn't quite work out. It costs a fortune to do the design, R&D and tooling for these cars, so I think that even though Bangle's designs have not been a huge hit, BMW has no choice but to ride it out.
Bangle took a big risk and seems to be paying off. BMWs are like art, they take time to be appreciated. Picasso was not a hit when he started out either. I do think the designs need to be tweaked though, not trashed. My guess is that people are waiting to see what the new model year brings and when the new models arrive, sales will sky-rocket.
thats really interesting, i kinda agree w/ it, since the designs arent that bad overall (save the 5s butt and 7s eyebrows). im also into modern stylings, nothing overly radical though.
but in any case i would say the biggest failure BMW did recently is creating the X3. except for its off road capabilities, theres no good about it, harsh ride, weirdo design, mediocre material quality. is this really what a bmw is supposed to be?
btw, boxster is just as good as any porsche could be, while they can say its a cheaper version of 911, it handles just as well as any 911 for nearly half the price
sadly, i found the true simplicity and elegance in the old 5, as for the new 5, this might sound funny, but the only character i can see in it is anger, whenever i see it i always think its lookin angry with me all the time lol.
Seats are wonderful, it's screwed together nicely, but BMW has instilled a "coldness" and an impersonal nature to the interiors of both the 5 & 7 IMO. The 7 has the requisite luxury ambience, but the 5 is somewhat sterile.
I miss the cockpit-like feel in my e39. The overall goodness of the e39 keeps me from rushing to buy the latest creations from BMW. Conversely, I am not automatically drawn to other marques in a display of civil disobedience to BMW!
MB makes some beautiful cars (we've owned several since 1997), but they have their cross to bear in the form of lousy electronics QA on their vehicles. I will NOT pay their price of entry to receive mediocre to poor quality operating sub-systems, no matter how well screwed together they are.
For me, BMW still hits the mark on driving aesthetics, but lose the "I'm too smart for my own good" school of thought on the human interface design! Fix things now before it is too late and resale values plummet on the 2003-4 models.
true that and i agree with you that bangle should design only 2 doors instead.
lovemyclk: i also felt the same way, cold w/o emotion, thats how i see the interior. i-drive more a hassle than a help.