Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

m4d_cow · August 2004

then again, noone can deny the fact that a lot of brands are copying BMWs, its just their own way to somehow tweak up their sales.
btw pontiacs are copying bmws front ends, not the other way round.
does chrysler have that weird boxy trunk also? i dont think so

carnaught: looks and beauty are relative, different comments in different minds out there, like cheez said "beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i own a 330i myself and i dont like the new 5er and the future 3er myself

sphinx99 · August 2004

I saw a new BMW and it was ugly.

carnaught · August 2004

I like the design of the new Bimmers. I think that with tweaking each year or so, they'll grow on us even more. The jury's still out, in my mind, on the interiors.

kdshapiro · August 2004

The interior on the 760/745 are gorgeous. I think they have an overall nice feel to them, and what you would expect in a luxury automobile of that caliber. I also like the interior of the new 5 series. After flipping back and forth between an E39 and E60, I decided I liked the E60 better. Cupholders are weird though. Although it's sort of cool not to bump them with my elbow when I'm driving.

All in all while some people come flat out and say their ugly, in my eyes BMW did a wonderful job with them. Their distinctive and handsome.

What I think the issue with the 5-series is the the way the 5-series prices get up into the stratosphere without trying very hard.

vsaxena · August 2004

I think the Z4 has awesome styling.
Perhaps is is just a bit too aggressive for some of the buyers. I have heard that roadsters are often bought for women drivers. I think the aggressiveness of the design might be putting some of them off. Of course pricing too does not help the Z4.

kdshapiro · August 2004

I agree on the Z4 styling.

m4d_cow · August 2004

ah i forgot about that one, yeah its actually kinda nice, but i dont like the interior.
best interior so far is new 5er's dash, hate the doors design though...

sapparo · August 2004

Now that we see what the 3 series looks like we have the complete Munsters family. Dad, mommy, and junior..

pearl · August 2004

"only a person who hates BMWs would say it looks like a Chrysler"....Well, that is your opinion, but regardless of what it looks like, many people do not think that the Six series, or any of the recent BMW models "look gorgeous". The apparently toned down upcoming Three series seems to be proof that BMW realizes that they have lost sales due to their controversial styling trends (plus techno overkill). I anxiously awaited the new E60 last year since I wanted to trade my E39 on one, but I could not deal with the styling, nor I-drive. Many others share similar feelings. For those who like the BMW styling trends - go for it - but many (and likely many more than BMW anticipated) do not.

xmf314 · August 2004

Two of my neighbors have E39s. They each lease a new 5 series about every three years. However, both of them hate the styling of the new Bangalized versions and will be leasing other makes when their contracts end.

One is planning on leasing a Mercedes 300C and the other is looking at the upcoming Cadillac STS, which according to a recent road test in Car & Driver appears to have BMW chassis dynamics - and is a good looking car.

I wonder how many other long-time BMW owners there are out there who are put off by the Bangle-bungle styling direction BMW has taken and will switch to other brands because of it.

kdshapiro · August 2004

I know of two people that jumped on the new Banglized versions of the E60, because they love the styling. While one journalists negative opinion in a magazine is read by millions of people, the fact that Neiman-Marcus sold out 50 special edition 6-series in 7 minutes, says people are out there who like the styling/materials/new directions.

While I know a lot of people that don't like it, a number of people are also thinking to jump on the BMW bandwagon now that the styling is less conservative. In other words the styling has attracted new customers.

The fact that BMW has become even more premium to me would have a more of a negative impact than styling. The fact that a loaded 530 E60 starts to approach $60K has more of an effect than the styling.

rich545 · August 2004

The Cadillac is better looking than the E60? Please...the new Cadillac's are some of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. But I guess that proves one thing. People have different taste in cars and no one is right or wrong. Also, people that like the new designs are going to like them regardless of what other people think as people that hate them will continue to hate them. We can speculate all we want about the reasons behind sales figures and at the end of the day we're really probably all looking at the numbers with some bias. Bottom line is, if the new designs aren't to your liking buy something else. If you do like them buy them. You can mention any car and there will always be those that like it and those that don't. Take the new Chrysler 300 as an example. I think it's one of the most hideous cars I've ever seen. But friends of mine love it. I'm no more right in hating it than they are in loving it. I guess I just really don't see the point in complaining so much about the new Bangle designs when we have a choice in terms of what cars we buy.

vsaxena · August 2004

I do not think it is fair to compare the styling of the 6 series to the E60.

The new 7 series is different but not bad. The new 6 series has much smoother lines. The Z4 is a beauty. A bit too aggressive in styling than the typical rounded convertible/roadster out there, but with harmony. The E60, however, was the pinnacle of Banglization.

I know more than a few people who have bought different cars because of the styling. They are folks who had made up their mind to buy Bimmers but were really put of by the styling.

I think the price inflation in the E60 also did not help its sales either. The only thing most people can afford right now are the 3 series cars. Unfortunately they are too small for many.

MB is doing very well in the styling of their vehicles. Their styling distinguishes vehicles from different classes (C/E/S), but still provides continuity in styling. There is a lot harmony in the MB styling. A C2xx can be had for less than $30K and looks awesome.

The 5 series needs to come down in pricing and move up in styling before cross-shoppers will flock to it.

glaker · August 2004

As I read the comments about the similarity people seem to see among autos, it brings to mind a local commercial for a car dealership that sells Hyundai. In the commercial, the owner of the dealership and his pitchman are standing in front of a Sonata holding the hood ornament removed from a Jag. Their story is that, rather than spend $50K for a Jag, you can come into their dealership and spend $15K for a Sonata - which looks just like the Jag. All your friends will think you have a new Jag. Then you can use the $35K difference to put toward college costs for your kids. And even better (according to them), youll still be driving the Sonata long after the kids finish college because the Sonata has a 10 year warranty! As the commercial would say, their idea (and deal on the Sonata) is HUGE!

Why didnt I know all this when I bought my 530? I coulda had a Tiburon instead!

sphinx99 · August 2004

"the fact that Neiman-Marcus sold out 50 special edition 6-series in 7 minutes, says people are out there who like the styling/materials/new directions."

Oh, c'mon. Neiman-Marcus could sell out 50 special edition Cadillac Allantes in 7 minutes. I know people who budget for monthly, quarterly and/or yearly big-dollar Neiman-Marcus Purchases just for the sake of it.

xmf314 · August 2004

"The Cadillac is better looking than the E60? Please...the new Cadillac's are some of the ugliest cars I've ever seen"

I agree that new Cadillac's are poorly styled. However, with the 2005 STS Cadillac has finally got the styling right.

I think it will steal more that a few sales from the 5 series.

m4d_cow · August 2004

i kinda like the new STS too

and id choose it over the new 5 for sure...

glaker: come on, man its not fair to compare a bmw with a hyundai

well, not that i have kids to worry about though...

rich545 · August 2004

Really? I guess that's a case in point. I hate it (and every other Cadillac as well), and I don't see how it's less angular or more "harmonious" than the E60 or other Bangle designs. I would guess that for every person that would choose the STS over the E60 there is another like me that would never own a Caddie over a BMW. It's not a status thing. I just don't like how American cars look or drive and I really feel that the materials we use in our cars is way sub-standard (even in a Caddie). Don't know why our leather seats always seem to feel like p-leather. To each there own though. I just looked at the performance numbers for the new STS against the 545 and it doesn't really stack up too well. Slower in every category. Plus I've never seen a dash in an American car that I really like.

rich545 · September 2004

Not trying to re-ignite this debate, but thought people might find this article interesting:

http://www.bmwboard.com/news/view.asp?linkid=415

kdshapiro · September 2004

He deserves it. He did a great job in moving forward a design, which is destined to become a classic in it's time. More and more people are liking what he accomplished.

m4d_cow · September 2004

He deserves it. He did a great job in moving forward a design, which is destined to become a classic in it's time. More and more people are liking what he accomplished.

i wont deny it though, the fact is i like the design elements separately. what makes me hate the newer beemers is because when the elements are put togethers theres no unity to the look, just like what saugatak said in another forum.

kdshapiro · September 2004

I don't agree though. The lines flow into one another. Oh yeah, they'll tweak 'em, they always do. The only thing I don't like about the lines, is the new/updated price tag.

tlcman · September 2004

from time to time i come here to spill my thoughts... So here I go... When it comes to the new design I cant stop looking at them... I dont care for the trunk but like kdshapiro said the lines follow through. Look at the side of the car and you will see how the roofline flows off the back and is picked up by the (i´ll admit it) not so pretty tail lights. I think this is a good redefining step for BMW it put limits their sales to people who love BMW for what it is style. Now dont be offended all of you who love the old bodys and hate the new, I was one of you. I have a owned several BMW´s and my most recent is the 2000 740iL and loved their body styles. the First 745, and 760 I saw I almost lost it and thought I had spied a upcoming production car. I hated it, the lines the trunk....everything... but the more I looked at it the more I fell in love with it, now I can say that I absolutetly love the line...minus the trunk, that one still needs to be developed farther. And with the Introduction of the F1 inspired M5 for the production year of 2006, I dont think BMW has missed a beat. I see Bangles styles much more agressive, and futuristic. I have said before on this post that I think that his styles were only good for the Z4 and 6 series. the sports cars that need that attitude, the Im here look at me and remember type... Now I after testing a 545i and a 760i I can defenitly say that Im all for the style, and my next BMW will be a 5 series. Lets not just talk about the out side but the refinement of the cabin is the best I have seen in a long time... I hate the iDrive, although this version is easier to use than the previous version.. But matterials are always high grade in BMW and assembely of the products is very good... I only can complain about the cup holder in my 740 that my wife has broken 3 times... Caddies... I can not stand their styling at all... as Motor Trend said ´the styling trys to hard to impress but it doesnt´ I do have to complement them on their stides forward in the RWD catagory, the power that it has, the cornering that it is capable of. But despite that I can not look at any of the caddies and see luxury. Comparing the smooth lines of a BMW and the choppy boxy look of the caddies is not valid. Motor Trend also complemented Cadilac for its strides forward in a comparison between the 545i and the comprarble caddy (im sorry i dont know the name) , one of the editors said somthing like, ´Cadilac comes to the fight with a gun now instead of a knife´ Have they made major advances? Yes, can they right now touch the BMW name in preformance and luxury? No they need time to rebuild their name.

carlisimo · September 2004

Has anyone else warmed up to the new 5-series? I'm not weirded out by it anymore. It's not looking so bad in black anymore...

m4d_cow · September 2004

im getting used to it, still dont like it much though, but the new M5 is indeed great looking

particularly the wheels.
i agree w/ parrish about audi and mercs styling, theyre doing great.

designman · September 2004

I couldn't warm up to the new 5, 7 or Z4 if I was cremated in them. What's more, this BMW styling schism is ruining the pleasure of my E39 ownership. Would have been nice to have a little more affection for the marque I have followed since the days of the 2002. That was ugly too but for some reason I loved it. Can't do it with this repertoire and can't wait for the successors to these platforms. My only ember is the X3 and it's for reasons other than styling.

pearl · September 2004

Well put. No doubt the old saying "to each his own" is true; however, in many, many years of following auto trends, I have rarely seen/heard this much negative commentary about a new design - AND - it clearly IS affecting sales. After the initial wave of the "gotta have a new one" crowd wore off, BMW 5 series sales are down. I have an E39 that I had hoped to trade on a new E60 - I love BMWs, but no way Jose. I am waiting to see/drive the new RL, M45, GS430 and STS. Chances are good that I will buy one of them.

kdshapiro · September 2004

The issue is price. I love the new looks of the Bangled-up models. In fact, I'd love to be cremated and buried in a 760.

However, I think the issue is price. A fully loaded 530 for $60K?, when you can get a 2005 RL for the upper $40s. (Although here is where I agree with fellow posters about not trusting the reliability of any new model). People are put off by the price, not by the lines. People have more praise for the 5 series than designman thinks.

For a few $$$ more I would buy a 3 series over a G35. But I wouldn't spend $10K more for a 530 over an RL. I would spend $10K more for a 545 however.

tlcman · September 2004

the price has moved up, when in the old days it was the 3 series (30,000) 5, (50,000) and 7, (70,000) do we see a trend here? well BMW, has made some big changes, one they changed their heavily praised steering, to a speed sensing ratio changing config, which is nice for the sunday drive but not what a BMW is made for doing, touring. They changed the computer, I love my nav system in my 2002 740 why didnt they just stick with that? And finaly they changed the price, because they are finaly realizing they made to many changes too quickly and need to show some more return on them. One thing they have not changed however (and I praise them for it) is their attention to detail, every car is assembled with presicion that IMO has never been matched by a domestic car, its only competitors are other german and Italian cars. I will certainly purchase another BMW, but I dont think I will get the 7 again, as much as I love mine now, I would have to down step to the 5, because I believe it represents what BMW is more so than the ´learn how to drive me´ 7 series.

pearl · October 2004

Well, I agree that the issue is (also) price; however, I would have happily ante'd up 60K if the new E60 looked remotely like anything I thought I would be caught dead in. It is MOSTLY about the exterior/interior styling coupled with the idiotic I-drive (why can almost every other manufacturer get this right and not BMW???). I am glad that you like the styling and no doubt some others do too; however, the huge numbers of people far and wide who love BMWs but won't buy the E60 is incredible. Face it, this was a horrendous screw up by Bangle and BMW management. This baby, will get "major" design refresh at the "mid-point". Count on it.

saugatak · October 2004

With 2 factors in play, it's hard to say which one is responsible for the decline in overall sales. IMO, it's both.

My wife used to like the new Bangled 5 series, but as she saw it more and more, she decided she didn't like it. Before she said it looked like a shark, now she thinks it looks like a mishmash.

There are too many people with excellent design sense (like designman) who dislike the 5's bold style. I at first hated it, then thought it was OK in dark colors, and now as I see more of 'em, I hate 'em even worse than ever.

I think price is probably the biggest factor in the 5's declining sales b/c most people are sheep and would just fork out the $ for the propeller, but there are enough discerning car buyers who are put off by the style to negatively impact sales.

Also, everyone's talking about the Bangled exterior, but where's the discussion on the interior? The new 5's interior is just plain ugly.

m4d_cow · October 2004

dont forget the i-drive, it turns buyers off as well.
the interior is, like you said, rather ugly, and the i-drive screen stuck permanently on the dash just makes it even worse.

kyfdx · October 2004

I think price is the greatest factor... Whether you or I, or even most people on these forums think it is ugly, I really doubt that is the consensus among likely buyers...

But, when you start getting over $50K for a sedan, that is a big barrier..

I, too.. do not understand the move away from the "cockpit". Unlike you, however, the exterior is growing on me.. (like fungus?).

regards,
kyfdx

radox5 · October 2004

On the beginning I didn't like the new 5 series, now every time I see it on the road it looks better each time. Same feeling I had with X5, and now I own one.

m4d_cow · October 2004

, too.. do not understand the move away from the "cockpit". Unlike you, however, the exterior is growing on me.. (like fungus?).

lol thats funny, the exterior is growing on me as well, to "acceptable" level.
the interior somehow looks cheaper the more i look at it, particularly with the amount of plastic they use at this price.
and last but not least the i(diot)-drive, still sucks big time.

530ir1150r · October 2004

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In my mind BMWs have never been beautiful in purely a stylistic sense. What I think is being missed in the Bangle discussions is the shifting of emphasis from the driving dynamic to the aesthetic. The emphasis on dynamics was highlighted by the aesthetic and that is what attracted previous buyers and they feel alienated by the looks of the newer cars and the toys that are on the newer cars.

This shift has been evolutionary over the years with some wondering who wants an automatic BMW? To why upgrade the radio in a BMW? To I-drive? All of this to increase volume at the expense of the niche market fanatic. These additions may be necessary (?) on cars at a certain price point. Did this begin at the introduction of the new 7 Series or the introduction of the 3 Series in the 70s?

I am sure BMW will sell more cars, but at some point the market will change BMW, to also sell more cars. The fanatic thinks this has already happened.

The long-term risk to BMW in this chase for volume is in the theory of threes for mature markets. When the global auto market matures will BMW-Ford-Honda-whatever comes out of China be headquartered in Munich, Dearborn, Maryville or Peking? And what will we be driving then?

tlcman · November 2004

Never been a big fan of us germans over thinking things, but I do have to say that the iDrive is not as complicated once you get use to it, I hated it when i saw it, but brought my son along and he figured it out in less than a min. I was pretty impressed, he showed me how to work the thing to. And it is easier, not easy but easier. The problem is that when people get in the car for a test drive they cant get use to the interface but sit down with it for a while and it starts to work. I still am not sure why they even introduced it, but its here lets work with it. O and guess what! The new 3 is with out iDrive! Styling is not typical Bangle rear but its design was executed tastefully, the belt line is a bit higher on this car IMO.

rich545 · November 2004

I agree, but you'll never convince those that don't like it that it's not distracting from the "driving experience." I don't happen to agree with that sentiment as I don't touch it any more than I touched my old stereo and climate control, but I tend to like new technology in cars whereas I can appreciate that some people don't. Thing is, most new cars (at least the more expensive ones) have some version of it so it's not like BMW is alone. About the new 3, it's interior is all Bangle (basically a mini version of my dash). You can definitely see his influences on the exterior as well though not as dramatically as you can on the 5 ,6 or 7.

tlcman · November 2004

"Styling is not typical Bangle rear, but..." Just talking about the rear end.

m4d_cow · November 2004

yeah the same rear end as u usually see in aa late 90s nissans

cheesestate · November 2004

Under a minute I learned how to toggle between CD, radio, and cassette mode, adjust its bass, treble, balance, played around with the navigation, and a whole lot of other fancy options. Great, your kid learned how to use it under a minute....but does that mean he understands the whole i-Drive system? Or just the basics that I covered above? It doesn't take a genius to learn the most basic functions of the system. The point here is that i-Drive isn't user-friendly at all. Instead of pressing a button once, I have to navigate through several different screens to do the most basic functions. Simplicity is the name of the game, not some high-tech PC-wannabe system that drives even the most patient driver to insanity. When I drive, my hands are not glued to the steering wheel. I got my cell phone, my coffee mug, my morning reports and newspapers; I want to listen to my morning radio traffic info, turn up the volume under heavy traffic, switch on the A/C, etc. I got no time to fiddle around with this i-Drive system, more-so taking my eyes off the road in heavy Chicago traffic.

IMHO, the new 5 and current 7 series are plain ugly. Every time I see one on the road, I stare at it not because I'm at awe with it; it's because of how hideous and out-of-proportion it looks. Not only is the exterior a nightmare, the interior looks like a creation from a Frankenstein movie. There's no flow to it at all; worst, the materials used are sub par to Lexus and Audi in almost every aspect. But don't worry, at least it's better than Infinity (cheap plastics everywhere) and equal to Mercedes-Benz. Thank goodness the new 3-series is a bit toned down, but I still wouldn't buy one either.

tlcman · November 2004

Sorry to hear that, but remember Porsche turned away many "911 traditionalist" when they introduced the 996 modle with the water cooled engine and boxter style head lights. Despite the fact that people claimed to hate this modle they ended up selling more that 20,000 units in the production year 2000, not cause people didnt like it, or the plastics inside were cheap (i know they are i do have one, but still love it), but because it preformed better and its still the 911. Its different I know but with every new design some people will hate it some will love it.

carguy58 · December 2004

You know what the Z4 actually looks good except for the tailights. The front of it is actually good looking. The 6 Series is a good experimental design. The only thing is I don't like the red lights on the lower back bumper. The rest of the car just has that "expensive look to it". Still don't like the 5 or 7 Series at all.

BMW's reliability has been slipping of late big time because of this I-Drive stuff.

jason3 · December 2004

The 5 series exterior is acceptable at best, and the interior is just about as ugly as you can get. I am extremely diappointed in the new changes. They have even managed to make the 3 series interior just as ugly! I sure am glad I bought a 325xi 04 model. The outside I can live with but once they made the changes to inside it has made me look at other manufacturers. I can't say whether I will purchase a new BMW next year when I look for a new car, they have a cheap inside and are now asking a price that they should be paying me to drive a car with that ugly of an interior!

jlbl · January 2005

I am re-phrasing the #446 message that I have just posted as a commentary to kyfdx message # 430 on the 'Luxury Performance Sedans' Discussion here in Edmunds web page.

kyfdx wrote:

"I was looking at pictures here on Edmunds (Inside Line?) from the auto show... Is it just me, or do both the Acura RL and the new Toyota Avalon have a touch of the Bangle Butt? Not that they look BMW at all, overall... just that one feature..."

I then wrote:

"kyfdx, you are quite right in your remark, in my opinion. Also, the exterior style of all of the sporty Alfa Romeo new series (don't forget European cars aside from BMW, MB and Audi) has even more touches of the Bangle Butt: in fact, they look like as clearly inspired by it! May be we all must wait for another one year or so to see more and more of these Bangle-inspired-but-not-acknowledged 'intercontextualities' erupting in many other car brands. May be not. The style that is to be seen nowadays in the majority of the cars was only a tendency pointed to by very few of them some years ago. There are people that follow the trend, others anticipate it. (Others feel they don't follow any, but few of these are really originals.) Everyone is O.K. because life is diversity. But now I thank BMW for taking risks instead of follow the path.

I say now that this former commentary of me should be applied not only to the styling (both exterior and interior) but also to the mechanical and electronic developments inside the new 5 series. Driving is an endless pleasure. Interior is minimalistthat is, it is not overcharged with so many buttons that you don't now, while driving, which is to be pressed, as in other cars happen. I-Drive is made mostly for pre tunning the car, before starting driving, to your preferences. When driving, you should only have left yourself to deal with the little choice of buttons placed along the steering wheel and dashboard to easily control the major features of head lighting, inside-climate, phone, radio and navigation. Of course, not everything in the new 5 series is blessed with perfection but, on the whole, I feel it is a step towards it. I should eventually say that indeed I love other cars in addition to the BMW 5 series (e.g, Citroën has been for many years ahead on mechanical gadgets that now are present in other carslike the active suspension with active roll stabilization, the headlights adjusted to the steering and others). But this is another topic.

ashaju · January 2005

i quite like the styling of the 7-series bmws. admittedly, it grew on me, but the 5-series is a different matter entirely. it looks good from some angles (rear 3/4), but damn right ugly from the front on. and i think it has more to do with that nose and those lights than anything else. imagine more a conventional nose section and it would be easier on the eye.

i have been waiting for the 5-series to grow on me... still waiting.....

everytime i think i might be getting used to it, i look at that nose, and i'm back to loathing it!

spoilsport · February 2005

i've come to the conclusion that the 5er will never grow on me. it keeps getting uglier the more i look at it.

same thing with the z4, don't know why anyone would want one over a boxster.

the 7 series has grown on me and i like the 1er....go figure!!

xkss · February 2005

Why did they do this?

They were not stagnating. Or, at least very, very few were saying that they were stagnating. The 2001-2003 530i is still one of the best BMWs ever made.

I HATE the interior of the new 5 series. Not even the $85,000+ M5 has a decent interior. The grey plastic around the Shift-My-Gears knob screams cheap. The new M5 doesn't even have four-piston caliper brakes. Car magazines are reporting brake fade from the M5. Given the problems with the current M3's engine, I'm not so sure about the M5's engine.

I can't wait for the next-generation M5 with a 10-speed transmission! LOL!

BMW had record sales in 2004 along with a record number of recalls/service actions.

The BMW X3 isn't even made at a BMW factory. LOL!

The new 3 series looks boring because if they gave it the styling of the 5 series or 1 series, people would be even more furious.

The grille of the new 5 series looks like the grille of a Pontiac. The taillights of the new 5 series look like the taillights of a 2001 Kia Rio.

The taillights of the new 3 series look like the taillights of a Nissan Primera.

When the new 5 series came out, I thought it was better than the 7 series, but after seeing it in person along with the previous 5 series it looked nasty.

Why do the new BMWs have so many electronics? Do we need computers with wheels?

Kirstie_H · February 2005

A newspaper reporter wants to talk with current and former BMW owners who either love or hate the brand's new styling. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, February 25, 2005 with your daytime contact info and a few words expressing your opinion.

bpraxis · February 2005

Rumor has it that Chris Bangle is on the payroll of Mercedes, LOL. As least the new designs are distinctive, not very attractive but distinctive. Actually the Z4 and 6 series have grown on me.

The new interiors with the I drive you crazy are a complete letdown. Has anyone sat in the interior of the new X3? They must be kidding. Honda has a nicer interior.

Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

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