Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

tlcman · February 2005

X-3 was a mistake, horrible offroader (due to lack of protection) and bad on road car because of the offroad suspension. HOWEVER, the 7 series was a huge gamble and is starting to pay off, I love the new styling, and off course they are going to tweek the designs, the first time I saw a 6 was driving past teh dealership at night in my 7 and i looked and thought they had an Austin Martin on the lot, but after pulling in to look at it it was the 6! in black, truly an incredible car, took it for a test drive and thought about trading my 7 for it! (but I dont think my insurance would like another 2 door 300+ hp sports coupe in the family) The 5 made me look twice at the rearend, and im not sure what i feel when I see it, but the rest of the car is amazing and the M5 is a truely wonderfull car as tested by Motor trend it sent the Benz back home crying. BMW is always into exlusivity while selling many 3's too keep their market share. They are not for everyone but for the people they are for they are amazing. Oh and about iDrive, its really not that hard once you learn it. yea you have to shuffle through a few pages but its not as hard as everyone is saying, maybe thats just me though.

xkss · February 2005

you're joking, right?

The new M5 doesn't even have four piston caliper brakes! what a joke!

Here is the new M6 in all its shame with lines going all over the place.

and here is the new Aston Martin DB9 which has a chassis twice as rigid as the DB7.

Here is the DB9 Volante.

merc1 · February 2005

While their shapes are remotely similar, both being coupes...the Aston-Martin is miles and miles ahead in its rear-end treatment. The BMW is aggressive where the Aston is simply beautifully elegant. The BMW is nice but the Aston is otta here gorgeous.

The Aston-Martin DB9 is imo the best looking production car in the world today.

A different behind is in order for the BMW.

M

kyfdx · February 2005

I'm betting the M5 will stop so quickly, that your dentures will come flying out of your mouth.. I don't car if they use rubber bands and paper clips for brakes, as long as they work correctly...

This is what happens when you read too many magazines, instead of driving real cars...

Stats don't make great cars... but, great designers and engineers do..

merc1 · February 2005

I agree and BMW has said why they didn't go overboard with pistons on their brakes.

They stated the tire size and the size of the contact patch of the tire is what determines stopping distance, not the amount of pistons.

I'm sure too that the M5 will outbrake the E/CLS55 or XJR or any S-series Audi with ease.

M

qrom · February 2005

Hi all. This is my first time posting. I am new here.

I think the new 6-series looks good...well, acceptable, anyway. The Aston is a beautiful car, but its design is predictable.

The rear treatment of the new 6 is not bad and I think BMW should refine it more to make it look like a $70,000 car. As it is now, the rear end looks a bit like that a certain Chrysler car whose name I don't remember.

I've seen the Aston coupe and it looks much better than the convertible. I've never really cared much for open top cars. Maybe that's why I can't warm up to the 6-series convertible. The 6's drop-top looks too much like something from Detroit.

xkss · February 2005

Why does Porsche use four piston caliper brakes for many of its cars instead of two pistons caliper brakes?

The new M5 will just be a rich man's Subaru WRX...fast but it has zero taste and class like the old M5s.

Since the M5 has side vents but the M6 doesn't, why does the M5 need them?

The new 5 series looks like a Pontiac.

m4d_cow · February 2005

the new designs, in this case the 6,7 and z4 might not be conservatively handsome/pretty, but still attractive in some ways. however i still hate the rear ends of the new 3, 5 and z4.
all the interior designs are real mess, what happened to the good ol cockpit style? at least they can use better plastic at these prices, especially on the x3.

xkss · February 2005

Here is Hartge's modified BMW 6 series. 100 % revolting! Notice the poor panel gaps.

rich545 · February 2005

Just wondering...since you appear to hate BMW's why do you bother to post on a BMW message board? Seems kind of pointless no??? I mean, I hate Cadillacs, but I don't go on to that message board. I'm sure anyone good at using Photoshop could make any car look like any other so who really cares?

lovemyclk · February 2005

You are just making yourself look like a foolish troll attempting to start a flame war. I'd suggest taking your obviously qualified product development credentials straight to BMW to "fix" them. I'm sure you would inspire their design and engineering teams to hire you on the spot to work your Photoshop mastery. I mean, your obvious talents for thoughtful critique would show them the light according to xkss!

From an engineering perspective, I believe it would be enlightening for you to share your opinions with the M5 development team... well those engineers responsible for braking systems at a minimum. I'm sure the transcripts from such a session would provide inspired reading to all the folks here.

BTW, how about offering your design and engineering quals to explain your "knowledgeable" disdain for BMW and the M5 in general?? We need to be impressed when we take in your thoughtful insights.

xkss · February 2005

rich545,

I post here because this is a message forum. I won't stop posting this until BMW makes cars with higher quality than they have now, builds the M5 by hand at the M factory like the first two generations of M5s, stops building suvs, offers a manual transmission for the M5, and...

designman · February 2005

You are just making yourself look like a foolish troll attempting to start a flame war.

Nah. Sounds like just another normal person who is torqued off at the jerky styles and direction coming from BMW.

xmf314 · February 2005

I agree. BMW is going through a wacky period.

I think they will learn their lesson and dump the Bangle design nonsense, greatly simplify the idiotic I-drive, and once again build sensible cars.

When that happens, I may be in the market for one.

rich545 · February 2005

Well, you know what they say about opinions. Anyway, of course you have a right to post here and have your own opinion. I just question what would motivate someone to post about cars they hate rather than cars they like. I'm sure that your postings really mean very little to BWM though in terms of what direction they are going in as a company, but if you feel it's some kind of crusade you're on, by all means, continue. The fact is BMW is no longer the small niche car maker they once were, and they aren't because of the success they have achieved. I ask you this, I have a 2004 545 and it has 9000 miles on it. Now, who has a more qualified opinion on the build quality and overall satisfaction that the car offers? The person who's driven the car for that long or a person that has read about it in a magazine and may have test driven it for about 15 minutes? Like it or not, the true testament of how good a car is is how it's owners feel about it. If you read postings here from people that own the new 5 you'll find that nearly all of them love them.

rich545 · February 2005

Yep, sure are learning there lesson based on this:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/02/01/019432.html

99zero · March 2005

BMW sales may be up now, but I don't think they can sustain this in the long run with cartoon bodies on the 5 and 7 series, and the I-drive which forces owners to plow through menus to do simple tasks when they could be paying attention to driving the vehicle.

As XMF says, BMW is passing through a wacky period.

jlbl · March 2005

Honestly, I can assure that the i-Drive in the new 5 Series is not bad but, in fact, very useful and undisturbing. (I have lived with it for a year now.)

Jose

kying · March 2005

I am new in this forum. Here's my 2 cents: I bought a new 2004 530i last May for its look!

The first time I considered buying a BMW 5 series was in 2001, but I hated the look of the old E39. I love my Audis, but when I saw the new E60 last year, I had to have one. 7000 miles later, I still love it like the day I picked it up from the dealer, and the I-drive is fun too. I must admit, I don't fool around with it when I drive; I preset everything before I get on the road.

I wonder the people who criticize the I-dirve are the ones who have it, or the ones who just read about it.

kdshapiro · March 2005

Bingo. Right on. The ones that criticize i-drive are the ones that read about it in C&D.

pfolk · March 2005

Is it just me or does the re-designed trunk of the '06 7 series, just announced with breathless press releases by BMW, look a lot like the back end of a Ford Taurus when they had a squared-off trunk?

It's a definite improvement from the first edition of the Bangle-designed 7, but still a disappointment.

kdshapiro · March 2005

Nah. Looks great. GIMME! GIMME! ME WANT!

xmf314 · March 2005

I thought the BMW boys would stick a good looking rump on the re-designed 7 series. But the new rump is just as ugly as the original Bangle bungle.

Maybe the awkward design of the 7s rear end made it too difficult to execute a good looking posterior without major surgery.

draq · March 2005

what is more important looks or substance? to me the new BMW 7 series does not look all that bad in fact I know in time the new look will grow on me, but what's important to me is comfort, reliability and power. I think, the new 7 has it all. I just wonder about the iDrive improvement. I have a 7 and i can't see how will they improve it. From the pics it look the same to me!!!

gordonwd · March 2005

The problem with magazine testers (or people taking a test drive) is that they have no time to get really familiar with a car, so any control or feature that is out of the ordinary they tend to view as "wrong". For years, BMW motorcycles have used switches for the turn signals that are rather unique in the way they operate and nothing like the UJMs. Magazines always criticize them for this, but anyone who has actually owned one of these bikes gets used to them within a few days or weeks, and then operating them is simply automatic.

So any computer-type control or NAV system is likely to get roasted by a tester who has only a couple of days to drive and evaluate it.

bpraxis · March 2005

Maybe that is why so many of us are having such a hard time acclimating to Bangles new design language.

It has been proven that we are attracted to people who shared a mathmatical symetry and precision of facial shape.

Bangle has lines that are disjointed, syncopated, convuluted, and sometimes very interesting. I like the new Z4 very much.

The current generation of the 3 series is so right to my eye that the new body style just misses the mark. It is somewhat nondescript and derivative of many designs.

A shame because I really want to buy a BMW but cant get past the design for the new 3 series which would be my car of interest. Z4 is too small.

And the competition is producing some very nice designs. I like the pics of the new Lexus iS and the new Infiniti M35-45. Very nice.

Maybe they can do a better job the upcoming 3 series coupe.

seller · March 2005

New design philosophy is bold, daring, ingenious and yes beautiful( and this is an opinion ). Critics of Bangle ......who cares...the guy has pinache and dare I say BALLS. If you don't like the looks of our cars and looks are your number one reason for buying a car don't choose BMW. Your loss.

BMW is about progression, innovation, we aren't in the market to do what everyone else is doing.
BMW invented ABS, traction control....I-DRIVE....which is , in case you didn,t notice, showing up in other high end brands.
Maybe less expensive(cheaper) vehicles out rank us on the odd test here and there.....we are not for everyone...at these prices. You get what you pay for.

kdshapiro · March 2005

"Bangle has lines that are disjointed, syncopated, convuluted, and sometimes very interesting."

That come together to form a work of art. If one looks at pointillism an individual dot means nothing. But as a whole pointillist painters have produced classics.

mikar · March 2005

If you are employed in the auto industry you should know that BMW did not invent ABS or traction control. Robert Bosch did some fundamental work on ABS in the 1930's but Heinz Lieber (first with Teldix & then Daimler-Benz) created the first working automotive ABS system in 1964.

Opinions vary on who invented traction control (depending on whether it uses brake or throttle control) but Robert Bosch's name comes up most often.

Ten million monkeys playing with CAD systems invented iDrive.

merc1 · March 2005

I like BMW too, but they surely didn't invent traction control or ABS.

M

jlbl · March 2005

Was not FIAT which sold the ABS patent to Bosch? Could you please let us know more on the process?

José

jlbl · March 2005

This is a general question. Fuel for Diesel engines is usually cheaper than gasoline here in Europe. Someone has recently told me this is just the opposite in the U.S. A. Please, will anyone confirm it to me?

Regards,

José

warthog · March 2005

That is correct in my area (southeast USA). Diesel runs at or as much as $.10 above the cost of 93 octane gasoline.

Kirstie_H · March 2005

Let's stick to BMW styling. If you need help finding your way around the Forums, let me know and I'll help!

530ir1150r · March 2005

BMW motorcycles have used switches for the turn signals that are rather unique in the way they operate

Unique, yes; better, no. I mishit way too often and have to look at the switches way too often.

mikar · March 2005

This is the first time I've heard of Fiat being involved in ABS development. Bosch had a bunch of ABS patents by the 1950's but they might have acquired some variations or enhancements elsewhere. Fact is I don't know.

Trivia (yawn) - The first operational ABS was used in 1858 in an attempt to lay a telegraph cable across the Atlantic. Apparently the cable kept snapping whenever the brake was applied to the cable feed spool and a form of ABS helped prevent this.

newbmr · March 2005

All: I would enormouly appreciate your insights and any help and guidance you can offer on this.

Kyfdx: I would love to hear your suggestions.

I have a 2004 X3, and I now want to buy 2005 3-series with the following:

-BUY (not lease)

2005 325i w/:
-auto trans
-alpine white (w/ black or dark grey leatherette)
-undecided on premium package

The questions I have are:

1) for 2005 what is a good/great deal to shoot for a purchase? (I am in San Fran Bay area)

2) given that 3-series gets a total makeover in 2006 model (available in September '05), should I

- wait till September when the new redesigned models are available hoping that BMW will make discounts to clear 2005s?

- buy now,i.e. no meanigful upside to waiting till Sept.?

- buy 2006 model in Sept as 2005 would have taken a big hit due to depreciation (i.e. 1 yr older model) and due to "obsolesence" of the old 3-series styling?

I would really appreciate your guidance and insights on this matter.

Regards,
newbmr

turnbowm · March 2005

You might have better luck on the "3 Series" forum.

Martin T.

designman · March 2005

It really is a challenging task trying to figure which BMW is ugliest, but on my scorecard the Z4 takes the cake. It subverts everything a sports car is supposed to be in all manner of styling. Can you imagine Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo trying to pull off something like this? All BMWs considered, no one is more off-mission than this poor excuse for a sports car which, by nature, is supposed to be the torch bearer for styling.

jlbl · March 2005

Should I go to the therapist? As different from many of you, I like that new Z4 and I also like all in all the new 5 Series. I do not like however the former 5 & 3 Series styling.

This new Z4 recalls me some British MG and particularly those Triumph TR3 and TR4 of many decades ago. By the way, are those 3 & 4 numbers merely a coincidence in the BMW Z Series? In any case, such cozy cars are not to be compared with full-size/engine sport cars like Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini. I believe they belong to a different line of sports cars.

Regards,

José

kdshapiro · March 2005

That is one gorgeous car. While I don't own one, I know people who have these cars and love them.

If anything, the only criticism is the too-taut suspension.

peakpro · March 2005

I completely disagree. I think the X3 is the uglies BMW in production now. With the new 3 series a close second.

But to each his own.

I have driven BMW's for the past 30 years. (3 and 5 series, I also own a 325i with Sports package) No one has evey said a word to me.

In Oct I purchased a Z4. It is incredible how much positive reaction this car generates. In a few months I have had dozens of compliments. Not to mention horn toots and waves.

I won't even get into the driving pleasure.

Sure its looks are not for everyone. That's a plus for me since I don't have to see one at every corner like with the 325i I own.

And it's no Ferrari but for 1/3(?) the price it does it job nicely.

designman · March 2005

"I completely disagree. I think the X3 is the uglies BMW in production now. With the new 3 series a close second."

Cool. I did say it is a challenging task picking the ugliest BMW, that's why we need a vote. So chalk up one for the X3. IMO they're all tied for second except the X3 which I think is the best looking one, mainly because most SUVs are ugly anyway and it just blends in with none of its features screaming for attention. I also happen to love the X3 ride which IMO is the best-handling SUV out there.

kdshapiro · March 2005

Gad, the ugliest BMW is nicer looking than most beautiful Infiniti, Acura or Lexus. Hey, even amongst the most beautiful, someone has to be the ugliest.

mevande · March 2005

I have never been a fan of the "new" styling in the 7 series. I still can't get used to the awkward rear styling. I have a 1999 740i with 42,000 miles on it (silver) and I think it looks better than anything "newer" that BMW has offered. In addition, mine is paid for.. hence I plan on keeping it a long time! Mike

saugatak · March 2005

Wow, I take off for a few months and the Bangle debate is still raging among the usual suspects.

My vote for the most Bungled BMW is without a doubt the e60 5-series. It's the equivalent to a former beautiful starlet who's had one too many nips, tucks and, ahem, misproportioned silicon implants [hope the moderator lets this one slip through].

I know there's a beautiful car somewhere underneath all those scalloped lines and unexpected bulges, but it's tough to find.

I actually like Bangle's angel eye concept, but he really screwed it up on the 5. The eyelash is too thick, makes the eye (headlight) too droopy and IMO looks more like badly applied clown makeup instead of a proper eyelash.

But to each his own, I hate it, some people love it.

Designman's choice the Z4 is atrocious as well, but I cut it some slack because the Z4 is the de rigeur car of choice of the "midlife crisis, tan saloned, hair transplanted, 2nd trophy wife, I can't afford a Porsche" market.

That target market dose not reward taste.

IMO, the reason the Z4 is so successful in this market is that it is, without a doubt, the most PHALLIC car I have ever seen.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a Z4 because I would not want people thinking I was compensating for nonexistent inaequacies.

IMO, the debate over whether Bangle's controversial designs were worthy or whether they sucked is over.

Bangle got booted upstairs and the X3 and the new 3 series, which are BMW's bread and butter, have not been Bangled, except for the cheap interior of the X3 but honestly, that might be the beancounters and not Bungle.

It's clear to me that the BMW board gambled on Bangle, didn't like the results, and pulled back before he could Bungle the entire lineup. I think some Dutch guy Hoodvynk has been assigned to clean up Bungle's mess.

Re the I-drive debate, I've come to like i-drive not because it is any good (I still think it sucks and it's an answer looking for a problem), but because:

a. my brother is making a killing at his garage fixing all the stupid electronics and useless gizmos BMW threw in; and

b. my sister dumped her 645 for an X3, partially because she hated the i-drive, and it sits unused in my parents driveway, so I get to drive a chick magnet car every time I hit my parents home in NJ.

So thanks Chris, keep up the good work. A few more i-drive like innovations and my brother will be in the next tax bracket!

There's a lot of discussion on the exterior of Bangle's cars, but what about the interior? What happened to the classic cockpit design? What's with all the cheap crud in the new designs?

kdshapiro · March 2005

Well no doubt your bro-in-law is making a killing fixing them. I have a friend who sells BMWs and he says he's making a killing selling them. So I guess if they sell a lot, your brother-in-law will fix them.

Clearly BMW has polarized the camps, which I think is great. This is what they needed to do. The new styles 7/5/3 are a great step forward. They must take care though their legendary road handling is never compromised.

pearl · March 2005

while we all agree that styling is subjective and some will love/hate any design, it seems safe to conclude that BMW has definitely turned off many long time advocates (including moi) with the current, polarizing "Bangle styling" (yes, no doubt some new fans will have been created). In my humble opinion, if BMW had simply evolved the E39 styling and added goodies like the new 3L engine, sales would have been significantly higher than for the current E60. I am a very good example. I bought my E39 in June 96 as one of the very first models out in that series and as a strong devotee of BMWs had planned for a couple of years to trade it in on a new E60. I almost died when I saw the interior/exterior of the E60 coupled with the I-drive debacle. They lost me right there and I am now in the midst of a drive/comparison between the new M, GS, RL, E350, and A6 for my new car. No doubt the E60 is still a great driver's car, but I won't even sit in one based on its looks. That, BMW, is really too bad.

gregfocker · March 2005

BMW has always stood for classic designs and driver oriented cars. I think the new designs are to "cutting edge" which will date them very very fast. The interiors of BMW's have always been classic but now they are looking more like something from Detriot.

My biggest problem is that I see to many compromises in the designs and just can't get myself used to them. I really wanted the new 5 series but could never really get used to the styling. I mean, it has grown on me a little, but it just doesn't jive as a complete package. From some angles the new designs look good to me but from others they look terrible and confusing.

I think this will be a time period that BMW will be seen as losing their identity in styling. The technology used inthe cars are very advanced and the ride is, as usual, awesome. The design leaves much to be desired in my book.

Take a look at older BMW's and you will see the classic look to them that has been proven over time. This new look will date itself quickly.

The new 3 series has some hope in the design department although I am somewhat concerned about the back end. I am sure it will be a blast to drive as are all the new BMW's...

mevande · March 2005

I think BMW made the 7 series bearable again! It looks closer to the 1995-2001 series than the 2004-2005 "mutants". BMW got an earful from the automotive press, customers ect. I was at the dealer various times in the 2 years after the 745i intro, and they always had a huge demand for pre-owned 2001's for the styling on the newer 745i's was in total, not a favorite. I think the evolution from the 1994 7 series to the 1995 was more palatable. They made a significant update to the platform w/o making the 1994's look like dated "pigs":).

Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

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