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Saab 9-2X
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Comments
Here's a good comparison test:
Swedish Wagons:
Saab 9-2X Aero vs. Volvo V50 T5
Saab 9-2X Linear vs. Volvo V50 2.4i
For $30,000, I'd rather have a Saab 9-3 Linear. Yes, I'm giving up power, but I'm also getting a car that Saab got more input into designing. I'm looking forward to the second generation of the 9-2, if we get one.
More interesting to me though is that the Saab 9-2X Areo in full dress, as tested came to $31,890.
A few pages later, an auto equipped Sube OB 2.5 XT Limited with similar equipment rings in at 32,470. Subtract out the automatic, and you're at $31,270.
So the choices are even more complex: Save money and get a WRX, spend the cash and get a WRX with added style and refinement (the Saab), or spend the money and get more utility, room, and even more refinement at the expense of "balls-out" handling and a dash of style (the Outback XT-L).
~alpha
Give the Saab a chance. There are plenty of folks who've wanted a WRX but either the looks didn't do anything for them or they wanted a little more luxury or both. The 9-2X fits that buyer perfectly and hopefully brings a few younger folks into Saab showrooms.
Heck, if Saab hooks this thing up with one of their great subvented lease deals I'm definitely intrigued.
Oh, and here's the last line of the R&T article:
"And consider this: The Subaru Impreza WRX has its wonderfully potent, 300-bhp STI variant. Can a Saab 9-2X Aero Viggen be far off?"
Would anyone be opposed to an STI wagon with a Saab badge on the front? Not me!
-Jason
The S40 is more differentiated, but it's still not a unique platform.
I drove the S40 and the T5 and I'd pick the WRX, mostly for the AWD, but also for the better balance.
-juice
Accord and TL and I believe the TSX are the same.
350Z shares platform with the G35 coupe and sedan.
Celica, Corolla, Matrix.
Sentra - not sure but I think it shares platforms with cars in Japan and Europe.
Lancer and Outlander share.
Do not know about the Mustang but I am sure it is not a stand alone.
9-2x is not very differentiated, though, in fact it's the same except for some cosmetics and more options available.
-juice
;-)
-Jason
-juice
The Impreza is a well-sorted car that always lacked some of the glitz inside and out to satisfy Porsche and BMW owners looking to downmarket thier next rides...enter the Saab Luxury Appointment squad.
Yep, it's an Impreza alright. Same platform, same trannies, same engines...but you get a critical more-than-once over from Saab engineers to make the fewest possible changes (cost-savings) to execute the best possible upgrade from the current Subie offering. I think you will see more collaborations between these two companies...with the next Impreza/9-2x having a deeper split personality.
So what if Volvo S40 is built on the same platform as the new Focus. That platform is a killer in the Rally racing world and the extra ducats are spent on things we all like: luxury appointments and upgraded cogs and pieces.
I think Saab has made a good decision to add this car to their lineup. I am dubious about the value upgrade for my personal dollars...but I think this is a great pointer to the next stage for both.
How about a TDI Saab/Subie with AWD? GM has a few good ones in EU aleady, just waiting for us to clean up our diesel supplies (2006 rollout).
A good platform is just a starting point...sharing will be the only way to make a car cost effective, especially with us customers demanding quick vehicle redesign cycles.
Just outside Toronto, we're looking at waiting until July 1st to get our first kick at the 9-2x, but my local dealer did have pricing and some basic lease info
Unfortunately in Canada, we still don't get access to the dealers true cost, but the basic listings show the Aero @ $37,735 and the Linear @ $28,950 (both in Canadian dollars). Doing the exchange math shows that we're getting a pretty good deal up here, but what's not apparent is that our Aero will automatically be suited up with the moonroof and cold-weather package + the 17" wheels for that same price - the only option being a combo of leather and xenon.
I'm curious to know about the past Saab policies several folks have written about regarding aggressive price reduction and or lease deals. I am aiming at a lease, and the rates I'm hearing from GMAC on the Aero are 2.9% for 3 years with a 55% residual (+ another 2% if you opt for low miles and stay under 10,000 miles/year) or 3.9% for 4 years with a 49% residual, again with an option to take a low-mile package and add in 2%.
If those numbers hold true, Subaru Canada will get whacked, as the WRX sits @ 6.8% for 4 years and so does the Forester XT. As a Forester owner I know that residuals are in the 50-52% ballpark, and quotes from local dealers seem to bear this out.
The Linear, however, is totally submarined by Saab/GMAC, as whilst the same lease rates apply, residuals sit around 48% for 3 years and 43% for 4 years. Subaru keeps the pace around 50-52% for the Outback Sport, RS, TS, etc, so it seems to show me that Saab is much more keen on putting my butt in an Aero. What gives? How does it look to Subaru when Saab seems to only improve their car with more content, better fit & finish, nicer sheetmetal, all built by the same Fuji employees, and than BAM! They tell us Subaru overvalues an Impreza @ 4 years out, and it's actually worth close to 10% less....talk about gratitude! Saabs may devalue quickly, but this car is a Saabaru.
With gasoline prices only heading upward, I'd consider the Linear but for this pricing diff. As it is, I'll forgoe my daily coffee and a bagel, and spend the coin on Turbo power.
For those interested, several Euro sites, like EVO, have also started to review the 9-2x, despite not even having it available. For all those lovely little hot hatches they've had for so long, turnabout is fair play!
And having visited a Volvo dealer today, I'm happy I've ordered my personal plates already which say "SUUB" and not "V50" - nice car, but in a different class @ nearly $7 g's more, not including tax.
Cheers.
They have suddenly and dramatically improved materials quality and driving dynamic feel...that and some sexier sheetmetal.
Could it be that some Saab folk were involved in a partnership long ago, working on that project as well? Seems anedoctal at best, but how did Subaru go from the only AWD car in town, but boring, underpowered, and not pretty - to the hottest, suddenly good looking, and ragingly powerful?
Who knows, maybe they are working on some more twin offerings. Saab and Subaru both would benefit by offering some more models into the market. Have you seen Subaru's Concept convertible? It is sweet looking.
Could we see a 2-seat Saab sports car around the corner?
GM has an interest in making some serious mileage from the Pontiac Solstice R&D. Can we see a possible platform deal that brings potentially three 2-seat convertibles to the market at variety of price points?
Subaru stopped selling their high powered versions of Legacy in Japan only. They figured out that other parts of the world will buy them and Subaru will be able to sell more cars.
Subaru did not have high performance car in US until they start selling WRX. SVX was disaster 10 years earlier but it was luxury high performance car.
What Subaru gets from SAAB deal ?
They build 8000 more cars without any financial risk. I suspect SAAB (GM) pays them decent money for all of them and distribution, advertising etc costs are covered by GM/SAAB too.
Well, parent company FHI gains economies of scale. It hurts dealer relations, though, becuase US dealer aren't happy, not a bit.
In terms of product it did benefit Subaru - the nicer interior goes on the 2005 WRX as well.
-juice
http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=14- 993
Inside and out, it would get better odds of taking my money than the Subie. I've always respected the WRX, but never cared much for the overall presentation.
Only thing that still bugs me is that C-pillar. It's that started-as-a-sedan-and-tacked-on-a-wagon-butt look that I just never can get warm with.
Nice looking package with all the goods, otherwise.
I also appreciated their "attention to detail" as if you can make sense of the info-graphic on the right hand side, you are definately ahead of the curve. Show me that $19k Audi A4 Avant please!
I think they framed all that is negative to say about this car in one article, bravo for that.
I guess, I would like to go back and read an article of theirs on the Impreza. Maybe they are just not very happy with twin car offerings. As this is certainlt one of those situations.
My question, does anyone else here know much about the differences between Ford and Mercury cars in the 80s and 90s?
Seems to me that a Ford Taurus and a Mercury Sable were almost identical, yet add a few luxury items and a better service department and people were willing to pay for a Mercury premium.
My biggest concern remains the upholstery, as the seats in Linear, with the base materials, were already showing some dirt...and I can't imagine how clean these buckets will be years down the road...it's really pushing me to the leather. I do really like the material qauality, with a more expensive canvasy type feel vs. the velour of the typical Impreza...definitely a more durable material. Just that the shading is so creamy pale that it's bound to get dirty fast - particularly when little ones are on board.
In Canada, the leather option is $2g's, but I think there will be worthwhile savings in the long run, so it's worth the plunge. Too bad there's no cheaper 'pleather' a la mini or bmw...it would suit just fine.
Anyone got a listing of the accessories as yet? I got no feedback from the dealer today, but I'm hopeful I can plug in an auto-dimming mirror. I figured the Subie one would do just fine, but my dealer wasn't certain the wiring would be in place, through the roofline, to allow an easy install.
If anyone has a list, please post! Bigdaddycoats has been so resourceful so far(and thanks for that), maybe he or someone else has preliminary info...?
I haven't driven the 9-2x, but I've driven several WRXs, and several of the new Legacy turbos. IMO, the Legacy wins hands down. There's no comparison.
The only advantage the 9-2x has is a 1-year better warranty. On top of that, in my neck of the woods, Saab dealers are as scarce as hen's teeth, whereas Subie dealers are plentiful.
Bob
It's funny, my step-mom had a Sable and then got a Taurus wagon and she REALLY missed her Sable. Small and subtle difference but the Mercury was coincidentally a lot more reliable as well.
-juice
the 9-2x is awful! frankly, i'm disappointed
by saab foisting this imitation subaru on the
general public. if gm wanted saab to have an
awd vehicle, it should have been patient for
_saab_ to develop its own product; not "patch"
a subaru with a saab front end.
where are the side turn signals? why is the
ignition in the wrong spot? why does it look
like a subaru? why is it not built in europe?
i'm sorry, but it's _not_ a "saab." the 9-2x
has taken the saab "cachet" _way_ down to
an embarassing level.
one of the reasons i've been a saab "loyalist"
was that saab didn't cower to being a "copy-
cat" in it's approch to designing and building
its products. it always prided itself on having
a "unique voice." such is no longer the case.
i don't see "today's saab" (or the future saab,
with the "auto/manual" transmission "thingie",
for that matter) as a reflection of its heritage.
it's painful to watch this sad "metamorphosis."
"...but i wanted a 'griffin,' not a cat with its
tail between its legs."
kthxbye.
b.
//
9-5 doesn't have the keys in the center console either, FWIW.
9-3 uses an Opel platform and GM engine blocks, I believe.
-juice
Anyone who thinks there would still be a SAAB available in this country without GM?
I'm as ready as the next "enthusiast" to get on GM's case for past (and potentially future) failures, but reality bites.
I feel for old world SAAB purists to an extent in that the product is now a bit more homogenized across the boards, but in this day and age and in the future, quirky niche product (no matter how delightful) that is not expensive with a healthy net profit per item is destined to go the way of the pull-chain toilet.
Wale hit it right on the head. Without the WRX, and GM, there is no way that Saab would be able to offer anything similar. AND, they may just be able to turn a profit on it, and not have to offer $6K in dealer incentives to move them out the door.
I wish they had done more to differentiate it also, but I'd take one just the way it is now. Subaru reliability with a better warranty and more luxury features.
regards,
kyfdx
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That is like 6 per dealer, if Canada is included in that sales estimate.
It's not as if Saab plans to outsell their 9-3, or give Honda a run for its money.
We have a project car, an oddity. It will sell ok, it has some upsides over the Subaru it mimics.
Will it break sales records? Nope.
Will it push Saab in new directions and new markets? Yep.
Will I buy one? Doubt it, for my driving, I think the Volvo S40/V50 is a better value statement.
-juice
Acura said just 15,000 TSXs per year, yet they sold over 3000 of them just last month. If they start selling well, it will go up from 8000 pretty fast.
regards,
kyfdx
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I bet they double that 8k goal.
-juice
But it is sales for this year only, they probably want to double that for next year.
Let's say 250 dealers in US and Canada. 8000 units. That's roughly 32 cars per dealer. That puts them on pace to sell 5-6 cars per month to hit targets. Considering the decent press and buzz the car received from the majority of venues. It should be likely for Saab to hit that number. I think they have only two dealers here in PHX. Neither of them very good. But I would bet they could still fall into 6 sales a month, especially in the Aero package. I see about 10 Impreza/WRX variants almost everyday on my drives to work, and maybe 2-4 Saabs.
I would guess the cross over should be able to add 60 new 9-2x's to the PHX metro area.
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Autozone.com shows the following breakdown for 2002 Impreza engines
4 Cylinders 2.5L MFI 38 %
4 Cylinders 2.0L SFI DOHC TURBO 62 %
That's exclusive of the Outback Sports, so it would include the 2.5RS, 2.5TS, WRX sedan, and WRX wagon. Does anyone know what Saab is planning for the Linear/Aero mix?
-Jason