BMW 1-Series

m4d_cow · May 2004

i thought they only come w/ 1.5 and 1.6l engine? 120i sounds possible, but will they ever throw in a 2.5l engine in a hatchback?

i dunno about the x3, imo ppl buy them just because its cheaper than 3.0, of course if youre looking for a real suv you wont go for a bmw product except for the range rover.

and yeah, german cars are never that roomy to begin with, especially compared to japanese or american cars

creakid1 · May 2004

I'm always proud of my parents' air-cooled Super Beetle 'cause even the rear passengers get to sit on a high chair that can house the battery, which carried the tradition into the Audi 5000.

& I'm still proud of the little '84 Wolfsburg Jetta I coupe I spent a fortune to restore(see my profile). 'cause the back seat is not just high, but so super-comfortably shaped that I'd stay there w/ the front seat moved forward for limo-like leg room. Plus, the ride is stable & comfortable uncannily more so than a plush-riding car!

What's really wrong w/ Japanese designs is that even the benchmark sedan, the new Accord, rides less comfy than the Passat(per CR) & the extra-roomy back seat is still too low for supporting my thighs.

creakid1 · May 2004

"i thought they only come w/ 1.5 and 1.6l engine? 120i sounds possible, but will they ever throw in a 2.5l engine in a hatchback?"

BMW already registered "125i" & "130i", & I'm pretty sure the "225i" & "230i" as well. So what's the point of the expensive but light-weight M3 CSI?

m4d_cow · May 2004

well the csl definitely has something youll never get in a hatch

and itll have the 360 ponies + the lightweight body, not sure about the 2 series tho, as ive no info about it

jchan2 · May 2004

But some of us will sacrifice some room in the backseat for prestige and a better handling car for nearly the same amount of $$$.

harlequin1971 · May 2004

considering that most people's back seats get less than 1% use over the life of the car (other than as a parcel storage shelf)...tight rear seats are a minor consideration.

Sure, if you cart around clients, or have older kids...you need to worry about rear legroom. If you cart your co-workers to lunch on occasion, who cares?

WOuld much rather have a smaller car with better performance and style than a larger car with rear legroom that I won't utilize. Maybe I am unusual (I don't buy it) but my back seats always end up looking as new as the day I bought the car when I go to trade it in on the next ride. Rear seat room, who cares?

I don't like narrow cars, however, that make two adults riding in the front feel like they are sitting in each other's laps...that is the kind of space I can appreciate.

307web · May 2004

Either you need the room in back or you don't. Do you have access to a second vehicle with a bigger rear seat or are you going to rent another car when you need the back seat room? If so, then the back seat room is not important.

jchan2 · May 2004

I have two growing kids, but with a Honda Odyssey van back seat room is no concern for our other car, as they're (the kids) quite skinny and don't mind tight back seats.

wale_bate1 · May 2004

I have two young'uns as well. We do all the local trips (1-1.5 hours one way) in my IS300 SC, which is almost exactly the same dimensions inside as a 3er. I also do the AM drop off duty. We're all comfy, and the only complaint is lack of a rear-seat entertainment system ("tough crunchies", says I)! I also drive with three passengers for office lunch outings quite a bit. No complaints there either.

For our long voyages, we take the Mrs.'s T&C. No way you'll ever find me skippering anything that huge for daily travel.

IMO, people in this here country routinely overstate their actual need for "room" in a daily driver. Need it? Horse feathers. Feel a bit more comfy with space around them? I'll buy that one.

m4d_cow · May 2004

i agree w/ you, i dont have kids and barely use the backseat at all

its been only me and my girlfriend all the time
When the time comes, then i'll start worrying about the backseat, but for now its no big deal to me

jchan2 · May 2004

I do all the local trips (in town, maybe up to 25 minutes away) in the Civic, and anything beyond that, we take the van.

creakid1 · May 2004

just 1 coupe & 3 sedans. Man, my '84 Jetta coupe's back seat feels sooo good I want to hire a chauffeur when I become a millionaire. The reason a roomy coupe can be more comfy than a sedan is that the rear windows provide unobtrusive side view like the Focus 3-dr or even the '02 Maxima sedan. & the cushion's lateral support extends further up near the knee(even the 3-series sport seat doesn't have it) unlike 4-dr cars that need to round off the cushion corners for ingress/egress ease. Plus my Jetta rode great from the solid stable rear suspension.

I'm 5'11" & found back seat of the the 3-series sedan, w/ either sport seats or power seats when tilt up, roomy enough for me, at least the right side. So 3 of me can fit in such car comfortably, especially w/ the excellent ride comfort from the std suspension.

bmwlover · June 2004

Is the 1 series coming out in the U.S.? If it is when? If it isn't some one please tell me when its comin out in europe... or even If it is comin out.

I think its a great idea what bmw did. The 1 series is gonna be a great sucess if the fuel economy is better than the 3 series though

jrct9454 · June 2004

...[see any number of earlier posts]...

However, one more time:

-The car is already available in Europe, or will be shortly. The early reviews are in and available from the usual EU car mags. General consensus is that it is a great car let down by a ride that is just too darned hard [a common failing with several new BMW models lately, including the X3]. BMW promised journalists who complained about the rocky ride that production cars would have suspension tuning that would be more compliant. We'll see.

-BMWNA has stated pretty flatly that it doesn't want the early 1-series models in this country [5-dr hatch and 4-dr wagon, 4 cyl engines only] because they will "devalue the brand". Whatever...

-We apparently WILL get the so-called 2-series cars, which will be a conventional 2-dr sedan ["coupe"...again, whatever] and convertible. And, only with 6 cyl engines, or so the buzz in the auto press has it.

As for timing, don't look for the "225is" [or whatever they'll call it] before calendar year 2006, either as an '06 or '07 model, depending on timing.

These appear to be worthy competitors to such cars as the A3, Golf, etc. Too bad we won't have the opportunity to sample the most practical and best values in the line. Prices on the 2-series cars with 6 cyl engines promise to be almost as high as a basic 325 is now - guess that's one way to avoid the dreaded "devaluation of the brand".

jchan2 · June 2004

Motor Trend says we might get a sedan later in the decade, say pushing 2010.

harlequin1971 · June 2004

read about it in R&T.

If they could qualify that in the US, it would be a great motor...though maybe too big for the 1/2-series.

IIRC - it was around 250hp and 400 ft lbs of torque. But then I just skimmed it last night and don't have it close by...

Anyone else catch that article?

it was July R&T, Diesel was in the article title...some new process they are using, a double turbo.

How would 250 hp and 27 mpg strike you? It struck them as a marvelous idea long overdue.

Get ready, because 2007-2010 will be the era of diesel engines in the US as the new fuels and rising prices will drive us into more efficient machines that can still haul butt around town.

jchan2 · June 2004

Good. When can we expect more gasoline stations selling diesel?

creakid1 · June 2004

jrct9454 · June 2004

...and are the best engines in the lineup - of BMW, MB, and VW, and most of the other Europeans, as well.

We just got back from trip to the UK. Four of us, and 150 lbs of luggage, in a Vauxhall Vectra 5 dr hatch [think Malibu Maxx] diesel averaged 35 mpg under all conditions, including a lot of puttering around towns. Average motor fuel cost: 83 pence a liter, or about $5.60 per US gallon.

Anyone who has driven a contemporary diesel will tell you this is the best alternative going.

jchan2 · June 2004

is the best evidence the new diesels are a great alternative engine to the traditional Gas engines.

harlequin1971 · June 2004

from R&T (I'm home now):

2-stage, turbocharged diesel engines

BMW - 3.0L inline6 (268 bhp and 413 lb-ft torque)

Opel - 2.0L inline4 (209 bhp and 295 lb-ft)

writer tested a slightly different version of the 3.0L BMW (in US) in a 530d, (369 lb-ft at 2000 rpm) had plenty of power, after a 364 mile trip, average 28.7 mpg versus a normal 530i which averaged 21.1 mpg in a different test by same driver. This car was provided by the BMW guys, not for sale here, yet.

Personally, a 200 hp I4 diesel with 300 torque would move the 1/2 series just fine by my tastes.

In fact, I find the 100 hp VW TDI to be decent, better even than the normal gas engine, since the torque is much higher and makes city driving much smoother...

I asked for this in the beginning, slick, small BMW, add in the award winning BMW diesel engine, and call me a customer in waiting.

Then they go and do this (whacky design) to us and yank the 1 from our shores for the time being. BMW-USA is a fickle, mis-guided crew in my mind...had no idea how to market the 318ti, have no idea how to keep their "market niche" if they offer cheap cars in their lineups...

Whatever. As it is, the Volvo S40 redesign is almost "nail on" what I was looking for...add in the upgraded T5 and I have something to save for...

jchan2 · June 2004

a diesel, and you may be the first one to drive a diesel Volvo. (if they build one)

harlequin1971 · June 2004

has a very nice diesel in EU in the Focus lineup, IIRC...

A little system's share could put a diesel in the US for Volvo, would be worthy a consideration.

Still, the base S40 gets 31mpg highway, which is nice...would be much better than my Elantra with the same mpg that often only gets 26-27 mpg in mixed driving.

I really need to set off a Saturday to do some driving, the new 100 hp diesel Jetta/Golf, the 138 hp diesel passat, the S40 and the 9-2x Linear.

I just can't fathom going past $25k, so the up-grade engines are a touch out of reach...but I do like the idea of the S40 better than the 9-2x at this point...of course, that is always subject to change.

jchan2 · June 2004

for the year end sales to do my car shopping. I'm mainly thinking of a Honda Accord, but if the deals are good enough on Saabs, Volvos, Infinitis and Acuras I may stretch the budget and get one of those instead. For the Infinti, I'm mainly looking at the slow selling and roomy I35, which I'm sure can be bough heavily discounted. The Saab would be the 9-3 Linear and the Volvo could be either the S40 2.4i or the S60, depending on the deal.

creakid1 · June 2004

let alone the handling, especially the rear-tire road-contact over bumpy corners.

jchan2 · June 2004

I will make sure to pay attention to that. Otherwise the car sounds like a great bargain considering its size.

ateixeira · June 2004

I agree with creakid1, though in my case it was that generation Maxima, it handled well until I went over some uneven bumps, then the axle hopped around a bit.

Besides that I liked it, though.

-juice

jchan2 · June 2004

I'll test drive it. I took my van in for an oil change at the dealer (and got the recall issue checked)and rode in an Accord courtesy car. Not a bad car. It was quiet, rode fine, the materials were nice and the price was low.

jchan2 · June 2004

I'll test drive it. I took my van in for an oil change at the dealer (and got the recall issue checked)and rode in an Accord courtesy car. Not a bad car. It was quiet, rode fine, the materials were nice and the price was low.

m4d_cow · June 2004

lol thats a real lame excuse, i personally dont see any real luxury in a bmw, it IS a great car, but not a luxury car, except for the 6 and 7.
just like benz, german police and taxi companies use E-240s
and id also say a luxury car wont use diesel engine (yes i consider 740d a trash)

ateixeira · June 2004

That's perhaps an outdated view of diesels. The new E series diesel actually costs $1100 less and will outrun an E320 while delivering far better mileage and range.

-juice

saugatak · June 2004

says 1-series will be coming to America but no date is set.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0406/24/autos-192933.htm

jrct9454 · June 2004

It's a 2-door sedan, just like all the current 3er "coupes", with a conventional trunk. For reasons known only to their marketing people, BMWNA has convinced itself that hatchbacks are taboo in a so-called premium brand, even as MB and Audi continue to offer or plan to offer HB competitors in this very price segment.

jrct9454 · June 2004

...or as close to the facts as we are going to get for now:

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=coverstory&loc_code=index&content_code=04997070

ateixeira · June 2004

Dunno, I sorta disagree. The 1 series hatch is dorky looking, too short and stubby.

That coupe is much better, kind of a German Scion tC. I'm not sure that's what they were aiming for but still, it's better looking than the hatch.

Bring the coupe and maybe the 1 wagon, but not the hatch.

-juice

307web · June 2004

It's just more Photoshop renderings, not real photos of physical vehicles that exist in reality.

ateixeira · June 2004

Saw some 3 series photo chops in another tread also. They gave it that 1 series face.

-juice

m4d_cow · June 2004

"The 1 series hatch is dorky looking, too short and stubby"

too short...maybe not, but dorky...definitely, and rear end = audi a3

as for the coupe, hope the real one looks like the photoshopped one, lookin ok, and definitely a lot better than the hatch

heard theyre cancelling the 2 and 4 names, and now they have M2???

ateixeira · June 2004

I meant short in length, it's actually kind of tall. But it ends up with the Toyota Echo effect of looking taller than it should be.

The wagon is longer and looks better. The coupe also just doesn't seem as top heavy.

Won't sedans be odd numbers and coupes, even?

-juice

kyfdx · June 2004

They dropped the even number thing.. Don't know what they will do with an "M" 1-series, though.. as I'm sure they won't use that nomenclature again.

The 1-series wagon looks great to me.. If the new E90 3-series has that general look, I'll be happy with it.

regards,
kyfdx

sunilb · June 2004

they are planning on selling this in Mexico and Canada, but not the U.S.... we must really be stuck up!?!

m4d_cow · June 2004

itll be no good if customers dont want them, but the new 1 is coming to US anyway, though not sure when.
the new 1's front end is somehow too narrow, giving it the "cute" and "dorky" impression.
make it wider and the impression will be much different.

creakid1 · June 2004

then the 1 coming to America is probably just the coupe. The absence of rear doors got all the excuse for missing a decent rear leg room due to the RWD layout. 'cause even the FWD Prelude is hardly roomier.

raychuang00 · July 2004

I think there is a good chance the USA will see the 1-Series, but it will be built at the BMW final assembly line in South Carolina, the same assembly line that assembles the Z4 roadster and the X5 SUV.

The 1-Series and its derivatives will be built at their USA plant in these models:

120d three-door hatchback (2.0-liter I-4 turbodiesel of 140 bhp)
225i coupe (2.5-liter I-6 of 168 bhp)
M2 coupe (2.5-liter I-6 with BMW Motorsport cylinder head of 210 bhp)

Note that by the time the 120d is sold in the USA, the entire USA will have switched to low-sulfur diesel fuel, which will make it possible for BMW to sell diesel engined car all over the USA and still meet the stringent Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (ULEV) emissions standard.

npaladin2000 · July 2004

I can just see them building the 120 hatches here, but shipping them up to Canada and down to Mexico to sell, because no one thinks Americans will buy hatchbacks.

Guess I'd better go hide my Mazda3 5 door. And tell all of the Elantra GT owners to hide theirs too. And the Aerio SX owners, and the guy I saw in an Aveo, and those Malibu Maxxes, that Rio Cinco, the Accent 3 door owners, the guy in the Mercedes sport coupe, then there's all the Protege 5s, and the Mazda6 5 doors, and the Focus ZX3s and ZX5s. After all, we're all not supposed to be buying hatchbacks here, because we're Americans, right?

creakid1 · July 2004

Hatches are for northern Europeans. Southern Europeans & 3rd world like notchback sedans.

I like the way a fastback hatch looks, but still prefers notchback due to better sound insulation & wider rear visibility.

npaladin2000 · July 2004

"but still prefers notchback due to better sound insulation & wider rear visibility." DOn't forget the useless for anything but groceries trunk.

creakid1 · July 2004

requires the rear suspension bracing, which defeats the cargo carrying capability. Just check out the new Z. & the notchback G35 coupe doesn't need it 'cause it already has the metal rear shelf panel.

No wonder the 1-series got an ugly-looking long wagon-like roof over the rear suspension.

creakid1 · July 2004

True, there's no intrusion from front-drive forces, but on first steering movement there's no intrusion from anything else, either. Just blind precision and a cosmic turn-in. This makes the 120d curiously hard to position at first, although once in a bend the steering's weighting does correspond with the forces felt by other body parts. Good, then, but not a religious experience from the god of rear-wheel drive. (Strange, as some 3-Series BMWs - most notably the four-cylinder Compact - steer so naturally.)"

http://www.evo.co.uk/driven/driven_story.php?id=48193

So watch out! Equipping this car w/ engine heavier than the gasoline 4-cyl will dull the steering feel.

BMW 1-Series

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles