BMW 1-Series

paulhuang · June 2007

So I've read in a lot of places that it's supposedly coming in the spring of 2008. I also read in Car and Driver that the price is supposed to be 25k for the 128i and 35k for the 135i. The price point has me very interested; so much so I wrote to BMWUSA since I didn't see the car in the future vehicles section. I said I was very interested in the vehicle and wanted to show my support for the model since it wasn't on the website yet.

I got a reply saying the company currently has no plans to bring the car over to the US

I hope that's just them trying to keep it a secret.

Does anyone here know of any credible sources (perhaps the dealer network) that indicate the car is coming to the US next spring? I am thinking about getting a new Miata but might hold out for the 128i if it is coming.

PS: I am interested in a relatively inexpensive RWD vehicle with manual transmission, good performance, and reasonable fuel economy.

qbrozen · June 2007

I didn't even know it was still a secret. I thought it was confirmed.

I believe $35k might be too high for the 135. I hope its not that high. I mean, at that point, I would just go ahead and step up to the 335, personally. I'm thinking the 135 should be more like $30k. The difference between the 328 and 335 is currently about $6500 to start. So maybe $25k/$31k?

nyccarguy · June 2007

You can't write to BMWNA & ask them. They'll never give you the answer you want to hear. I wrote a similar inquiry about 2 years ago regarding the 3 series wagon. It was only available as an Xi (AWD). I asked if they were going to offer it as a RWD wagon with sports package. They wrote back no. 2 months later I saw a 328i Wagon.

fixxxer · June 2007

$35 is about right, i would assume, because think about the cheapest 335i coupe, starts at $40k. Im sure BMW thinks that 5k is a good price difference. I don't think i'd be interested in a 135i, because the running costs would just be to damn high. The 128i makes alot more sense to me, and with 230 hp, thats still hot-hatch beating, considering most hot hatches have 200, maybe 220 hp. (I know the Mazdaspeed3 has 273, but thats just ubsurd)

kyfdx · June 2007

If only we were getting the hatch..

nippononly · June 2007

Ditto that. :-(

nyccarguy · June 2007

Obviously every one of us here would love to have a new 1 series powered by BMW's all new twin turbo inline 6, but I've driven a 328xiA (Automatic, AWD) which is one of the heavier combinations of E90 3 series out there and I was impressed with the engine's responsiveness. It will definitely make the 1 series a zippy and fun car to drive.

qbrozen · June 2007

well, honestly, 230 hp/$25k brings alot of other cars into consideration for me. The bimmer might still win due to RWD, though. Who knows?

However, 300hp/$31k is tough to beat. Cars like the STi and EVO are about all I can think of that fit that bill. And those just don't appeal to me with their low-rent interiors and boy-racer looks.

I still think $35k is overestimating ... that is IF the 128 comes in at the projected $25k. A $10k price difference is too much to justify, especially since, as I've already pointed out, the difference between a 328 and 335 is $6k.

fedlawman · June 2007

There is no way that BMW will offer the 128i for $25K - that's cheaper than the FWD, 200hp Acura TSX. I'm thinking $29K for a bare bones model.

As for the 135i - the Subaru STi costs $33.5K. The 135i will certainly cost more than that...

ateixeira · June 2007

Perhaps on paper they will start them at $24,995, but you know how that is. Add freight, and it really starts at $26k, and that's without the Sport and/or Luxury package that pretty much every car on the lot will have.

I expect cars on lots to cost $28-30k for the 128i, $33-35k for the 135i.

Wonder if you could do euro delivery and custom order a "base" model?

fedlawman · June 2007

Are the coupes going to be built in Germany? If so, Euro delivery would definitely be the way to go.

A base model 128i with manual tranny and sport package would be the way to go. Something like a 2008 E46 330i PP / E36 M3, for $10K less.

kyfdx · June 2007

I agree..

I think typical prices will even be a little higher..

$30K-$32K for the 128i

$35K-$37K for the 135i

That puts them $5K or more cheaper than the comparable 3-series models..

Plus, at this time, they are only talking about coupes and convertibles... These cars aren't going to compete with hot hatchbacks. They are trying to grab the buyers who have been left behind by the pricing of the 3-series coupes and convertibles..

Just my take on it..

qbrozen · June 2007

that's cheaper than the FWD, 200hp Acura TSX.

But the Acura is bigger, has 4 doors, and has WAY more options than a base BMW. They just aren't in the same category.

Well, in any case, at $35k, I would no longer be interested in this car.

fixxxer · June 2007

There's no WAY they could sell a 128i for $30-$32k, a 328i starts at $31k, who would they be doing a favor with that?

The old 200 horsepower Acura RSX started at $21k, so i think a 230hp BMW 128i could easily start at $25k, and i think BMW would have to get it down to $25 inorder for it to be market competitive

kyfdx · June 2007

Good luck finding a 328i for $31K.. A 328i equipped the way I would order it is pushing $40K.. That still doesn't include NAV..

Base price including destination on a 328i is $33,175. A MINI Cooper S model with 175hp is $27K-$28K, typically equipped.

qbrozen · June 2007

do euro delivery on the 3'er and get it any way you want. ;b

good point on the mini, though. I guess we should expect a base 1-series to exceed a base Mini S. but that shouldn't be too tough. what does that start at? $22k?

fedlawman · June 2007

"i think a 230hp BMW 128i could easily start at $25k"

The VW Jetta GLI is $24,000 and the Subaru WRX is $25,000.

If the BMW 128i comes it at this price point, I'll eat a bug (after I buy the Bimmer).

qbrozen · June 2007

well, again, i think maybe we aren't clear on the size we're dealing with. And, don't forget, as for the WRX, there are alot more expensive mechanical components you are dealing with there. You don't get over 230hp out of a 2 liter very easily, then add AWD to the mix. So swap some of that out for some refinement, knock off 2 doors, and you've got your bimmer. ;b

fedlawman · June 2007

I hear what you're saying, but brand image costs money too. Think about it, you have $25K burning a hole in your pocket - do you buy the 230 hp Subaru or the 230 hp BMW? Don't even think about a 200 hp FWD Volkswagon...

qbrozen · June 2007

and for the people that care about image, I'm sure that's an easy choice.

for me, it comes down to, "do i need awd?" "do i want to modify the heck out of it?" things like that.

But, as you folks points these things out, its definitely lowering (or raising?) my expectations. I'm now thinking $27k/128 and $33k/135.

that's pushing it, though, IMHO. For $33k, I can get a G37. If I actually WANTED a small car, I'd opt for the bimmer, sure. But the way I see it (and I'd bet most shoppers will, too), I'd be sacrificing space with the bimmer to get great performance in a snazzy package. If it then becomes a choice where I could gain back that space for the same money .... know what I mean?

stevecebu · June 2007

Since MINI is so hard to get in many areas it would be downright foolish of BMW to try and place the MINI which is a specialized car with very limited dealership as an entry level BMW in price. You can get a lot of car for $25k including the Subaru WRX and the 2008 Honda Accord with normal discounts and while these aren't real ELLPS's people buy a lot of them. The 1 series doesn't look very sharp for a BMW. The hatchback which I drove was awesome tho, in looks and everything. But not US bound

BMW will have to bring in the 1 series a lot cheaper than you think to get it to sell. I figure base MSRP on the 128i will have to be under or at $25K and not a chance they will sell a 135i for 6K more. They start competing with far too many cars for what amounts to BMW's econobox. This based on the fact that BMW imports into the US, cars which are luxury based, not like average model cars in Germany. I think a base 135i is going to have to be $27k or they will have a lot of them left on the lot.
The 1 series is a small car and while good for enthusiasts. The average car buyer will cross shop it with a lot of other cars. Sure they won't get BMW handling or a 4/50 warranty but You can only sell a car for so much and in that price range I figure they will get buyers into BMW with low enough prices then once hooked on BMW they might upgrade to more expensive models 3, 5 or even 7 series. The 1 series is a good way to get your feet wet with BMW without breaking the bank. BMW has a lot of repeat customers but the 3 series has stiffer competition every year. I think they need the 1 series for new blood but if it's overpriced like some of the figures I've read on here it will push it way outside what most people will spend on a small car.
The Subaru WRX offers alot of bang for the buck and AWD and it's all new this year as well. Ditto the Accord. No they aren't ELLPS but the 1 series hatch I drove was great but it's not like a 3 series which is an ELLPS. Best hatch I ever drove tho!

louiswei · June 2007

A 318ti had a MSRP about $24,950 back in 1998 and it has a 1.9L 4 banger. Now fast forward 10 years, here we have a relatively same size BMW, with a 3.0L I6 producing 230HP and you expect it to cost the same?

:surprise:

My prediction:

128i: starting $27,995
135i: starting $34,599

kyfdx · June 2007

Good point (especially since it agrees with mine..lol).

Not only that.. when have you ever seen a price-competitive BMW?

stevecebu · June 2007

A 318ti had a MSRP about $24,950 back in 1998 and it has a 1.9L 4 banger. Now fast forward 10 years, here we have a relatively same size BMW, with a 3.0L I6 producing 230HP and you expect it to cost the same?
My prediction:
128i: starting $27,995
135i: starting $34,599

You are comparing the 3 series to the 1 series and that's not going to work. The 318 grew up into a great big car and the 318 was pretty small compared to the 328/335 of today.
Yes I expect that the 1 series is going to sell for about 25K entry level price. Just how much do you think these cost in Germany?
Plus you are adding all luxury options and that will boost up the price. BMW makes a fortune off of options. Me I want power windows and locks, A/C, CD player and a sport suspension. So for me options are minimal. But many people order the big $$$ options which is where they make all their money. Price it too high and it will not sell, BMW or not.
These engines are not rare they are basic BMW engines not specially tuned ones. They've been out in the rest of the world for a while now. Either BMW will sell it for a lower price to compete or it will be a very short lived series.
Congrats to BMW if they can sell a base 1 series 135i for $34.5K. I sure wouldn't spend that much for one. There's just too many good cars out there that offer a lot more for that price. BMW knows this.

louiswei · June 2007

I am comparing the 318ti. Remember those?

See, BMW has everything going for them. Even if there are more folks thinking like you they still will have a line waiting to get their hands on the new 1-series. Being competitive in pricing is not BMW's concern. Deliver the best performance sedan/coupe in its segment and uphold the prestige factor are more of a priority for them.

qbrozen · June 2007

And the 318ti was a big bomb exactly for that reason. Maybe BMW has forgotten this ... but I doubt it.

Manufacturers seem to think the public balked at a high-end hatchback. What the really balked at, IMHO, is an OVERPRICED hatchback.

No, the 1-series we are getting won't be a hatch ... yet ... but I don't think that will change the pricing problem. For $28k, many of us 'Mericuns will be buying a bigger car.

nyccarguy · June 2007

we might as well speculate on weight. From what I can tell on BMW's website, the lightest car in their current US lineup is the Z4 3.0i Roadster at 3020 lbs. Any guesses on what the US 1 series will come in at?

Does anybody have the specs on the European 1 series hatchbacks?

nippononly · June 2007

Little coupe like this, I am hoping it wouldn't be more than 2800 pounds or so. But am I being optimistic there?...these days a Civic coupe weighs 2700 pounds.

The RX-8 is hanging in there around the 2800-pound mark, IIRC. Even with the bigger engine, I would hope BMW could counter with some weigh-reduction measures to hold it to that mark.

nippononly · June 2007

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=121452

just makes me drool. A 201 hp twin turbo beaut of a diesel, installed in the 123d that runs to 60 mph in about 7 seconds and still gets 54 mpg? Where do I sign?

Of course, BMW in its infinite wisdom won't make this powertrain available in the U.S. Everybody knows Americans will accept nothing less than a V-6 in their entry-lux models...

:sick:

fedlawman · June 2007

The 130i hatchback weighs 3200 lbs.

fedlawman · June 2007

When did BMW start building V-6's? Do they have dipsticks?

stevecebu · June 2007

just makes me drool. A 201 hp twin turbo beaut of a diesel, installed in the 123d that runs to 60 mph in about 7 seconds and still gets 54 mpg? Where do I sign?

They'd have my check in hand today! without even a test drive if they sold it in the US.
I'd gladly trade off the 6 cyl power for 50+ mpg and it would probably use a 6 spd manual to do it. Sweet car but if it ever does come to the US it won't be for many years if ever. :sick:

stevecebu · June 2007

I am comparing the 318ti. Remember those?

I try not to it was hardly BMW's best effort.

See, BMW has everything going for them. Even if there are more folks thinking like you they still will have a line waiting to get their hands on the new 1-series. Being competitive in pricing is not BMW's concern. Deliver the best performance sedan/coupe in its segment and uphold the prestige factor are more of a priority for them.

Yeah I can think of a few car companies that thought that way and are now very deep in the Red so maybe you are right but I still maintain you will not sell a base 128i series for $28K and the base 135i series for $35K .
Oh sure they can ask that much and maybe for the first 6 months people will check them out and maybe even buy them but once the newness wears off and the small cramped size gets to them they will realize they just paid $28K+ for a very powerful car the size of a Geo Metro. They had better hope the trunk can at least hold a set of golf clubs because if not most people would just get a Z4 because those rear seats will be unusable for $28K+
I still maintain there are too many cars in that price bracket for BMW to sell them at $28K for a base model.
As far as eliteness goes BMW's are pretty common nowadays and are great cars but if you price a car too high they'll find many people will but something else that's bigger and roomier and costs less. Sure it won't drive like a BMW but it'll be close enough and probably more comfort and for the same or less since many manufacturers discount their cars unlike BMW.

nippononly · June 2007

You know what I mean!

sunilb · June 2007

I'd be all over this 123d, especially if it came in a 3 or 5-door configuration.

Good handling, great gas mileage and some utility as well!

nyccarguy · June 2007

The problem with BMW's weight saving measures is that they are on the costly side. Front Aluminum Susupension pieces & Front Aluminum Body panels like they use on the 3ers & 5ers. 3200 lbs seems about right.

I'm all for the diesel option, but it won't be available here the first model year. Much like the hatchback 318ti that BMW believes it made the gravest mistake at bringing in an entry level BMW with a 4 banger.

We're only going to see the NA 3.0 INLINE 6 & Twin Turbo Inline 6.

I'm all for a 4 cyl gas powered turbo 1 series too, but I should be happy they're even bringing the 1 series over here in the first place.

stevecebu · June 2007

We're only going to see the NA 3.0 INLINE 6 & Twin Turbo Inline 6.
I'm all for a 4 cyl gas powered turbo 1 series too, but I should be happy they're even bringing the 1 series over here in the first place.

I agree they will most likely not bring over a 4 cyl gas engine. I do hope they bring over the diesel tho. It won't be for a while but BMW will follow whatever trends are popular. If everyone else starts selling lots of diesel cars you can be sure BMW will have one ready to go.
The 1 series is much nicer looking in hatchback for and 4 doors but I'm in the minority that likes hatchbacks and wagons.

nippononly · June 2007

I'm in the same minority. I think it's a great shame they chose not to bring over the hatchback, just at a time when 3- and 5-doors are making a big comeback in the U.S.

blueguydotcom · June 2007

the lightest car in their current US lineup is the Z4 3.0i Roadster at 3020 lbs. Any guesses on what the US 1 series will come in at?

I'm guessing 3250 for the 128 and 3350 for the 135.

blueguydotcom · June 2007

You're not alone. The coupe is utterly worthless to me. a 4 door 135 sedan would be perfect.

blueguydotcom · June 2007

but I still maintain you will not sell a base 128i series for $28K and the base 135i series for $35K .

Where do you guys get a 7k price between the 28 and 35? BMW bumps the price 4500-5000 between the engine choices. So if you're putting the 128 at 28k, the 135 must be about 33k. They're not gonna bump the price 7k...there's no precedent for that much of a gap between the 3.0 engines.

Sure it won't drive like a BMW but it'll be close enough and probably more comfort and for the same or less since many manufacturers discount their cars unlike BMW

All non-M BMWs are discounted. Always. This isn't 1990. BMW is in a tough market and you should be able to buy any BMW for near invoice (or well below invoice via ED).

stevecebu · June 2007

Where do you guys get a 7k price between the 28 and 35? BMW bumps the price 4500-5000 between the engine choices. So if you're putting the 128 at 28k, the 135 must be about 33k. They're not gonna bump the price 7k...there's no precedent for that much of a gap between the 3.0 engines.

I already answered that question in my last post and it was not $7K it was 5K if you add it up the difference is something like $5,500 between the 328i and the 335i and $5,100 between the 528i and the 535i. If my math is wrong in that post them by all means cut an paste it so I can see where I added incorrectly.
Also it's just a logical guesstimate. Only BMW knows for sure. i think the coupe will have limited appeal in such a small size but they will probably have a 4 door soon afterwards.

You also didn't read why I used MSRP and stated my reasons for doing so. Do you know you can get the 1 series which is unreleased for invoice? I don't, too many factors which muddy the waters, so I used MSRP. What is invoice on it? We are trying to gauge MSRP not out the door prices.

I'm glad you mentioned the tough market which drives prices down. i wonder how many 135i's BMW would sell if they sold them with a sport package for $28K out the door? I know it won't happen but it would boost them up a lot if they did. They would stomp their competitors flat with that inline six Turbo in a light coupe at a few grand above a WRX.
Still it will be higher, probably close to what I've shown.

blueguydotcom · June 2007

I'm glad you mentioned the tough market which drives prices down. i wonder how many 135i's BMW would sell if they sold them with a sport package for $28K out the door?

It wouldn't help them much. The people who want a car like that will gladly pay in the 30s for it. Nothing like it exists in the market.

I know it won't happen but it would boost them up a lot if they did. They would stomp their competitors flat with that inline six Turbo in a light coupe at a few grand above a WRX.

Profit margins would be tight and like I said, it'll move fine with the price in the 30s. The 330 in the e46 sold at about 1 to 5 margin with the smaller 325 models. The e90 is selling a bit more 35s right now but the market will probably correct. The 328 is the bread and butter for the 3. I'd imagine the 128 will do the same - at 26-27k they'll probably sell well above the more enthusiast oriented 31-32k 135. Plus the 128 may offer a more satisfying drive - lighter, less weight in front, better balance much as the e90 328 and e46 325 felt a bit more nimble than the e46 330 and e9 335.

PS: BMW has made it clear that the hatch won't come and there's not been a test shot of a 4 door 1 series in years.

qbrozen · June 2007

that's what i see, too (here on edmunds, at least). $5500 more in coupe form, $5900 more in sedan form.

qbrozen · June 2007

PS: BMW has made it clear that the hatch won't come and there's not been a test shot of a 4 door 1 series in years.

Well, I certainly could be wrong, but maybe, just maybe, if the 1-series coupe sells like hotcakes, BMW will consider more variants for us (and not just the drop-top).

kyfdx · June 2007

The one positive is that they are already making hatches, so they just have to federalize it...

No sedan, yet, though..

blueguydotcom · June 2007

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536

The pics are far better than those originally released.

kyfdx · June 2007

The rear end looks a lot better than the earlier photos, but I'm still not loving that ducktail treatment..

I was hoping that was just a spoiler, but it looks like the actual trunklid..

qbrozen · June 2007

its both. The shape of the lid does turn up at the tip, but there is also a small glued on piece. Not sure why, though. It seems to follow the line of the lid exactly, so the glued on lip does not add real height. weird.

anyway, i like the interior pics. very simple layout.

kyfdx · June 2007

I see what you mean.. It has a little lip spoiler like the one that was on the E46 Performance Pkg models..

I think it will still have the ducktail, even without the spoiler..

It's okay... I just like a cleaner look.. I have the same problem with the Z4.

BMW 1-Series

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