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Comments
As many have mentioned here my first impression of the exterior of the new X3 was a less expensive vehicle than the MSRP. The black bumpers are simply terrible, worthy of a inexpensive Japanese SUV, even the CRV has nicer looking black bumpers.
And the interior is very pedestrian, not worthy of someone who is looking for something more upscale. Why has BMW made a vehicle 10 percent cheaper than the very attractive X5 that is not 50 percent as attractive. Why would someone buy the X3 over the X5???
And are you all aware that the X3 is not made in a BMW factory. It has been contracted out to another company.
I do not own the Infiniti FX35 but I do not see any contest between the two vehicles. The FX breaks new styling ground and the X3 is nothing new. And of course the FX offer so much more for the money, there is simply no contest.
*ducking and running for cover*
I've been pretty happy with my Grand Cherokee (2000). It's had a few issues, but eventually got them taken care of (pinion seal leaks). The interior is nice enough considering it is a SUV. It handles the highway quite well, handles offroad and adverse weather quite well, and they know how to do real 4wd and AWD. The new Xdrive is a LOT like Jeep's Quadra drive in concept.
The only thing I plan to do with the GC to make it handle better is some sway bar installation (7/16" hollow standard - upgrade to 1" solid).
-Paul
1. I like the vehicle.
2. I like the interior.
3. I love the way it drives.
4. It fits my needs. It's not about buying more than you need, it's about buying what fits your requirements.
5. I'm betting the gas mileage is going to be better than the competition.
6. I don't need to be the fastest SZV(no typo) on the block.
7. The panaramic moonroof is cool.
8. My wife loves it.
9. My kids love it.
10. It's my money.
ksso
sometimes you are the windshield
sometimes you are the bug
The bottom line is that whether X3 is good, bad or ugly, useful or not, it will sell well because of the entire middle class in america wanting to ride in the lap of luxury and they will make other compromises to make do that monthly BMW payment.
ksso
sometimes i'm the windshield
sometimes i'm the bug
ksso
ksso
sometimes you are the windshield
sometimes you are the bug
The FX has plenty utility. For nine months it was my primary family hauler of 2 adults a seven year old and an infant. It handled a 2600 mile cross country trip in style and comfort and all of our stuff. It also did fine on several shorter weekend getaways with the family. Will it haul a 4x8 shet of plywood no but neither will an x3. It has just as much utility as the X3 and more than the X5. Also the FX with it's 20" wheels have done better in the snow than X5's. So unless you are going off road I see no way the X3 offers more utility. If you are going offroad skip the FX's and the the X's and get a touareg or cayenne for that.
ksso I don't buy that stuff. For the same money, there are many other vehicles floating around. NPR does not know what they talk about sometimes. There is luxury like and then there is luxury. An ES330/3 series for almost the same money are luxury like. My house is luxury like. I cannot afford the 20-30million that I really need make it pure luxury. There is nothing wrong with luxury-like.
as a family that has a jaguar s and bmw 3 convertible, and an exceptional one, i'm not a bmw basher, but the fine line between balanced reporting and fanaticism has to be respected.
ksso
ksso
ksso - If you knew me personally you would know I am not a BMW fanatic. I enjoy cars in general, especially am fond of manufacturers of all brands that managed to get it "right". BMW is one of a number of brands of manufacturers that managed to get it "right". The it is different depending on the manufacturer, but having said that, I am a big fan of BMW.
cj - for years I have heard a mixed bag about BMW reliability. I knew several people a while back with the top of the line BMW that was always getting repaired. JD and Consumers have had something to say about BMW reliablity or lack thereof. I have personal experience with several satisfied owners. Mine has been ultra-reliable. But I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, though it never may.
kd, you love the car for the reasons you mentioned. More power to you and good luck with your purchase. I tried really hard to see it the way you do. I really wanted to buy this puppy. Oh well!
ksso
today i'm the bug
yesterday i was the windshield
I'm still trying to decide do I want the X3, despite the interior issues, or an Audi Allroad, or do I want to wait for the 05 Passat Wagon. I drive an 01 VW Passat GLX 4Motion wagon now and we love it. I just have the new car itch that needs scratched badly! I love my cars you know:
2001 BMW 325Cic Convertible
2001 VW Passat GLX 4Motion Wagon
2002 VW Golf GLS
bodble2
I want to squash you like a bug on my windshield yesterday today and definitely tomorrow
j/k
Regarding the X3, I just saw it recently and my views fall somewhere in the middle of those expressed here. It's really like any BMW, in that if you like the package and have the money, you really can't loose. If you like the styling (I really do, although I'm not a fan of the black bumpers), like the handling, like the interior (I like the design, but I hope the materials appear cheaper because they are "SUV tough"...), and have the money, it's probably the best of its class.
If I were to buy an SUV (which I probably wouldn't, but...), it would for me come down between the X3 and the Infinity models. I'd consider the Volvo X90, but the supposedly soft handling would probably put me off.
Just my $0.02...
-Bret
I named the other one "Mac" but Mr. Jobs did squat, so I still drive an Intel box.
Sign me up for the bonus checks too :-)
Steve, Host
I have looked and sat in all four of these cars recently and I can tell you firsthand that BMW is using cheaper or as cheap interior materials than those 3 cars.
It's all about value. I am not going to complain about a cheap interior on a $20k car, but I would be pissed about a cheap interior in a $40k car.
BMW seems confident that they can get away with using cheap interior materials as long as they provide the BMW ride. Maybe they're right.
I guess it all comes down to compromises and despite some interior shortcomings I like what the x3 has to offer
Thanks!
Here is my spin on this:
BMW markets the x5 to a more upscale clientele who want an SUV as a grocery getter and trip taker. The x3 is geared (no pun intended) to a younger and more active crowd. These people are wanting the storage and space of the x3, along with the performance of a 3, which nobody is disputing. The x3 is geared to an active lifestyle, so I can understand why the lower grade quality is there.
-Paul
interestingly bmw just announced a special lease on the X5 3.0.
i wonder if there's anything behind the timing here... a X3 is likely to be even with the X5 on a lease, considering 3.0 models for both.
If the difference in handling is not so great, considering the little difference between the two (only $4K for the X5 3.0) I think you get much better quality workmanship with the X5.
Thoughts??
X5 was definitely a smoother, more supple ride. X3 suspension was stiff, "sporty" if you're of that mindset, "haywagon" if you're not. X5 interior was same materials as 3 series and old 5 series, X3 interior was lower-grade plastic. I could tell that although the X3 was smaller in weight and exterior dimensions the interior was set up more sensibly to optimize storage, i.e. lower load level and so on versus the X5 so I could see why the interior volume would be the same.
Acceleration-wise, to get to your question, the X3 was a bit zippier although there was a weird off-the line lag on the X5 with the automatic that I didn't experience with the X3, which could bias things somewhat. (Lot of people complain about this... doesn't matter to me, I'd get the 6-speed stick either way). I thought both, for trucks particularly, performed quite well. But I thought the X3 was more car-like overall, and you could notice the lower weight.
Word is that residuals on the X3 are lower than the X5, which means on a lease basis yes they'll come close similarly equipped with the same engine. (Depending on where the X3 actually sells, which is the reason for my price questions... should it sell for sticker when one could get a deal on an X5, the 5 might even be cheaper on a lease.) Build quality (*not* interior materials quality which is another topic and is readily apparent once you look at 'em) is probably a push. I understand the Spartanburg plant had trouble early which they've since worked out. Magna Steyr - who knows?
X3 does have the newer gadgets though, such as the panorama roof, the adaptive xenons, and the "sensotronic" (sensormatic?) steering. Found some slippery roads which both handled very well.
All in all from a marketing perspective this one puzzles me. Too bad for BMW that they weren't able to bring in the X3 for $3-5k lower than they did to create some real distance away from the X5, as it is there'll be some meaningful cannibalization one way or another.
I would imagine once the free maintenance is up, yes it would be pricey. But that's 4 years away for any prospective X3 owner at this point.
The problem BMW has (and for that matter, *all* other automakers makers have, especially the luxury brands Cadillac and Infiniti) is that Audi/VW (and Lexus to a lesser extent) are really raising the bar on interior design and materials. While the Toureg doesn't quicken my pulse styling-wise inside or out, I can't deny that its interior looks and feels like a million bucks. Same for the Phaeton and, to a lesser extent, the A8 and new Lexus RX. I have a gut feeling that the next Passat is going to do the same thing to the Accord/Camry/Altima class.
BMW and the rest are eventually going to have to rise to the challenge. For now, the X3 interior is OK, but they'll have to keep upgrading it...
-Bret
If the difference in handling is not so great, considering the little difference between the two (only $4K for the X5 3.0) I think you get much better quality workmanship with the X5.
Thoughts??
jjman, you need to take the beer goggles off when looking at the interior of the X3. maybe kdshapiro should give you some of the "cheerleading" money he gets from BMW, LOL!
also, when you say the FX is merely a "G35 on stilts", come on! The FX is a very nice car and by all accounts, handles just fine (never test driven it myself) and the interior is a whole lot better than the X3, no contest. Also, the FX sells for a lot off MSRP so you can get it a lot cheaper than the X3, plus the FX35 has 280 HP!
so jjman, while you may question my sanity for comparing the interior materials of the X3 to a Yugo (and really, the comparison is very fair), I'd question your sanity for the way you have dissed the FX, which is a very fine car.
Also jjman, if you look at my review of the X3, you'll notice that aside from the price and the interior materials of the X3, I'm very complimentary about the car.
Main thing is, the driving position is a lot higher off the ground, so I felt that the suspension was a little looser on the X5 and there was some sway when going hard into turns with the X5 that I did not feel with the X3.
I think that's to be expected. When the car weighs more and is higher off the ground, it isn't going to handle quite as well.
That being said, the X5 still handles great and is definitely the best handling SUV in its class (handles a lot better than my Acura MDX).
Maybe the 2004 X5 with x-drive will handle better, don't know.
Also, in terms of space, the X3 feels just as roomy than the X5, so I don't think the X5 uses interior space as efficiently as the X3.
With respect to interior materials on the X5, it's no contest -- X5 hands down.
I just want to say one more thing about cheap, had plastics and then I will refrain from beating on the X3 interior (feel like this topic has been done to death already). I hate 'em bad because my exp. in the Northeast is that they shrink in the cold and expand in hot weather and after a while the car starts developing annoying rattles everywhere.
With regard to the X3 being manufactured by Magnum Steyr (not sure if spelling is right?), I wouldn't worry about it. It's a company with a great reputation and I think the Austrians have the same attention to detail and quality that the Germans are famous for (I mean, aren't they ethnically the same?).
ksso
sometimes you are the windshield
sometimes you are the bug
all that said, within germany itself, the northerners and southerners are different, very different (i'm resisting to use the words such as bavarians) and the austrians fiercely pride themselves to be austrians, so i'd never make the mistake of every equating the two, even though from 5000 miles away their language sounds remotely similar.
all that said, i wonder if the recent spate of "issues" with german built 3's is due to east german labor... hmmm ok i'll shut up
ksso
The problem is the price points for the 3-series. They have to price the X3 to be in line with the 3-series. How can you have an X3, which handles similiarly to the 3-series and costs less?
By putting in a cheaper interior, which they did.
What did you mean by "But I thought the X3 was more car-like overall"? I thought X5 had a smoother, car like ride, vs. the sportier ride for the X3.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
also, interesting to see that people are already getting below MSRP on X3s.
tidester, host