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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    Has anyone rented an STS at Hertz?

    I see them available in Vegas - and my daughter & I will be renting something to drive to Zion and the Grand Canyon after my conference next month.

    I am curious about several things:
    1) Are they (all) V6 or V8s?
    2) I see sat nav listed as a feature on the Hertz site - is that Hertz's system or GM's?
    3) Anyone ever successfully 'waive' the mileage limit of 100 per day? Or reduce the overcharge if that's exceeded?
    We'd likely exceed that limit by 200+ miles @$0.39 per . . .

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Prefering this to a Taurus - but not quite that much . . .
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    Yes, I have. At San Diego.

    1. V6
    2. Depends. If the car has NAV, its the GM system, but not all of them have nav.
    3. Yes. I had unlimited miles, and a discountd rate. I'm a bit of a travel junkie and obtained a rate of around $64.99 a day, with unlimited miles.

    My car was a Black STS. Really enjoyed it, what a great rental. Made my want one, but unfortunately its out of my price range (though I'm seeing really low prices on used low mile ones...hmmm...)
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    nsidering buying an STS this month...What have others been paying lately?

    Also,the bucket seat bolsters seemed a little narrow...os seat comfort an issue for anybody?
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The STS will offer a six speed automatic on some STS packages for 2007. This will be the 6L50 transmission, and I will guess that the V8 packages will have it. GM has released news item to that effect.
    http://www.media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.co- m/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=25969
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    Thanks for the link.

    With this development now official, a 2007 STS V8 is 'officially' on my "short list".
    I wonder if:
    Caddy will effectively implement 'rev match on downshift'?
    The final drive ratio selection & availability will remain as in 2005 & 2006 among the 1SE, 1SF & 1SG?
    - Ray
    Wondering, but encouraged . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I have been checking the online order site, but there is no information on the STS or SRX. With first gear having a 4:1 ratio (about), my guess is that the axle ratio would be about 3.08:1 for the 1SG package. We do not know if there will be a 1SG package as yet. First gear with a 3.08:1 axle is about 5% lower than the 5 speed first gear and the 3.42:1 axle.

    I would hope that they choose axle ratios that improve the overall performance. The current base axle ratio of 2.73:1 gives about the same level of straight line acceleration as the 3.42:1 axle ratio. So I think the optimum gearing is somewhere in between.

    The six speed transmission may be a performance option.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    Though I am also very curious about what other changes will occur for 2007, I have never seen anything from GM to indicate that the six speed automatic in the C6 Corvette does a “rev match on downshift”, though various sources report that it does.

    I have seen nothing in any 2006 C6 Press Release, the on line order guide or the Owner’s Manual to indicate that it does. I have no ideas why this feature is completely ignored in promotional literature, as my driving experience in Infiniti M45 Sports indicate (to me) a substantially more refined driving feel with this feature.

    Point being: We may not know for sure about this and other features until someone actually test drives a 2007 and reports. GM has not proven to be a comprehensive and accurate resource for product information. For me.

    Heck, I have now personally contacted GM twice regarding incorrect EPA ratings for the STS-v listed at this GMBuyPower url:

    http://www.gmbuypower.com/vehicleList.bp?make=Cadillac&model=All&modelId=all&mak- eId=006&identifyThumbnail=showAllMake&

    Still incorrect. (sigh.)

    Oddly, the 2006 STS-v, with essentially the same transmission as the Corvette, did ** not ** implement this “rev match on downshift” feature. And that still surprises & confuses me. Very odd.

    - Ray
    Waiting now oh so very patiently for a 2007 STS V8 to test drive . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The 6L50 may have additional features that the 6L80 does not have, like the speed matching.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    “The 6L50 may have additional features that the 6L80 does not have, like the speed matching.”

    Possibly.

    However, my understanding is that the trans features would not actually be issue in implementing something like “rev match on downshift”.

    Since the TBW is already there, the issue would seem to be one of integration between downshift command (manual \ TapShift generated) and coordination between the PCM and TBW to achieve an appropriate amount of “throttle blip” based on the current RPM and calculated \ expected RPM after shift execution. To smooth the transition.

    Again, I believe that this would require no additional hardware components – and achieve an additional measure of driving refinement. Something that I expect would be ‘a given’ as important in a Premium Sedan like the STS.

    But I have been wrong before . . .

    - Ray
    Glad the six speed is coming, and still hopeful . . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    This feature is probably more a software (computer) package than anything. Software does not always work right, and does require a certain amount of developement time. So, I am not surprised that the 6L80 went into production without this feature. It could be added sometime.

    The current 6L80 is used in some trucks, which may not have the computer power to include everything.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    "I have been checking the online order site, but there is no information on the STS or SRX. "

    STS guide for 2007 is up now.
    - Ray
    Reading & digesting . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    No indication of axle ratios as far as I can see. But, as I thought, the six speed is the V8 transmission. I expect that the V6 will get the six speed next year when the CTS is redone and most likely will get the six speed.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    Other changes.

    I see a few other 2007 changes of potential interest.

    The addition of the J56 Brembo brakes (rather than just a pad upgrade for the JE5?) is certainly an upgrade – this carries the same option code as the brakes on the STS-v. And will likely add non-trivial cost to the Performance Handling Package – now called PCZ, and apparently including the QAF tires & Brembos.

    And (to my chagrin) the PCZ option is (still) only available on the 1SG.
    ( sigh. )

    I’ll save my full rant about STS pricing & option availability for another time . .

    It looks to me like the Sunroof (CF5) is now not included in any PEG. But is available on all. Interesting. For someone who prefers NOT to have a sunroof, but wants a 1SF or 1SG, I suppose this is good news.

    The 1SD does not appear anywhere. I have never seen one, and last I checked, there was not one in stock at any dealer within 100 miles of Atlanta.

    More important (to me) is that now the FE3 MagRide appears to be available on (and included in) the 1SG only????

    This again would force me to order a 1SG. Plus a sunroof. Plus PCZ.

    [ I drove a 1SE and a 1SF over exactly the same test drive route and the ride \ handling compromise was distinctly better (for me) in the 1SF – and I attribute most if not all of the difference to MagRide. ]

    Or, I could specify the 1SG, and Sunroof only, and have a dealer immediately pull the OEM Michelins off the 18 x 8” wheels and have them replaced with something roughly equivalent to the Pilot Sports . . And do without the Brembos.

    The only other difference I see (though I do not see direct reference to this) is that the Blackberry exterior color seems to have disappeared.

    Too bad. Last time I ‘walked the line’ of STSs at my local dealer, that struck me as a very attractive color. Oh, well.

    I wonder how the PEG Stairstep changes will effect pricing. I suppose that will not be released until a July or August.

    - Ray
    Watching & waiting . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I was just looking at leftover 2005's in my area. I found that there are some V6's leftover at some distance. Still, my 2002 SLS has lost too much trade-in value to really consider trading at this time. As far as 2006 model go, one dealer has a few V8's, no V6's; another dealer has no V8's, but a few V6's. The V8's were all 1SF's priced over $60,000.
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    I'm finalizing tomorrow purchase of a base six-cylinder STS. I was able to get it at a price I just couldn't pass up. I'm taking over my wife's Catera; I hope this new Caddy proves to be a little less problematic...
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    I just received the first, of probably many, flyers from one of the local Cad dealers here in South Florida. It's called the "Buy-Back Program" A good price for your trade-in, but more importantly, $10,000 off the MSRP, or 0/0 % financing. Of course, that would be on vehicles in stock, and even at that, maybe not all of the models. But, it's a good indication that the "incentives" will be back to help them clear-out the inventory.
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    An e-mail to the Cad Customer Relations people, got me a reply that the STS radios do not have the capability to connect an IPod (or any other Mp3 player), which didn't surprise me. The response went on to recommend that I upgrade to the best radio, and I'd be able to play any cd's, from which I'd burned Mp3 music. I Don't know what the upgrade price of the Bose radio would be, but I'm guessing that the addition of a "line-in" plug might add a buck or two to the manufacturing price.

    Actually, I'm more interested in having a lot more people remind Cad that we're now in the 21st century and that a few "upgrades" to the old stand-by radio, would be welcomed! A six-disc cd-player is about as up to date as an 8-track tape player. A hard-drive would be nice, with the ability of downloading a bunch of tunes. That might be too much to ask; but a "line-in"???? I haven't used my 6-disc in years. My Ipod holds 40 gig of memory, now has about 3000 songs, plus audio-books, and enough variety for a long drive. Anyway, if a lot of people "ask", maybe they'll listen.

    Thanks, and remember -- Life is Better at the Beach!
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    While you have a valid point, I only have a one cd player in my Seville. I would have liked the 6 CD in dash changer, but that was never available on the FWD Seville. I do not have any sort of Mp3 player, iPod or otherwise. The 8-track tapes and players were quite iffy when they were new.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    “Why no "line-in" plug on the head units (radio)?”

    I hear you.

    For me, with a 6 CD and XM on my current sedan, and no iPod (or similar player) it is a non-issue for me.

    But I do know that many others would appreciate this “listening option” – and other manufacturers are offering it. And in the great scheme of things, it would seem relatively easy for Caddy to offer this added feature.

    I am afraid that this is indicative of GM’s larger problem \ issue of being able to bring improved Product to market, in a timely manner.

    For example, the Caddy STS for 2007 is offering a new version of the six speed automatic. Only on the V8s. And to replace a pretty darned good 5 speed. ( I have driven a couple & reviews have been almost universally positive. ) Not a 4 speed.

    One could certainly argue that the V6 versions of the STS would take better advantage of the additional ratio and the substantially wider spread ( between first and sixth gear ) in ratios, given the lower HP & TQ ratings of the V6 vs the V8. But Caddy (apparently) reasons that the V8 is more premium and deserved the most premium ( ? ) transmission - first. Or something like that. I will be very interested to see what GM \ Caddy says about this in their marketing of the 2007 STSs.

    I think it is likely that the issue here is available production capacity for the new six speed. I just don’t believe that GM right now has any more money to spend ( or that they could reasonably borrow more money, at their current debt ratings ) to throw at new product development or at increasing capacity for such component manufacturing enterprises as the transmission plants. They have clearly been badly burned by excess capacity issues. And continue to be burned. And even if they had more money to invest here, ramping up ANY production capacity any more quickly probably looks rather risky & fraught with potential peril.

    Even taking GM’s fiscal situation into consideration, I am surprised that it looks like the six speed is essentially the only significant change to the 2007 STS. No other additional features are mentioned in what I have read so far.

    After 2 model years, I expected more from the 2007 STS. The six speed ( if it provides enhancements where I expect, in the measure I expect ) is important to me. But I expect that many potential customers will not care. Where they might care about a feature like “line-in” for an iPod. Continuous refinement and advancement is required to compete in this segment, in my humble opinion. And I believe that potential customers expect it.

    This time, next year, we’ll see if Caddy has more or less STS inventory. Presuming roughly the same production rate, this will determine if GM is right – or I am right.

    We’ll see . . .

    - Ray
    Thinking a 2007, in 2007, might be available at what I’d consider to be “a good price” . .
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    In my earlier post, I didn't mean to suggest that the 6-seed changer should be abandoned, just the need for more and better technology, as you have articulated so well. I do agree wholeheartedly that if Caddy is going to run with the "big dogs", they better pay attention. On the other hand, if they're just going to play "catch-up", then maybe their market will have to be a continuing one of rebates and diminished resale values; and maybe that's part of the current business model. After all, if you start comparing the STS with the 5-series, and/or the Audi A-8, you can get a nosebleed at the higher prices that these marques can command.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I have looked through the radio options on some of GM's other cars and I don't think that they offer the plug in for i-Pods on anything. I do not think that this plugin is a simple matter of soldering a couple of wires on with a plug.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I have thought about your post on the six speed automatic and that it might benefit the V6 more than the V8. I think the six speed should improve the highway MPG EPA rating somewhat for the V8. It may help the V6 too, but the V6 has much less low end torque which drops off rapidly at lower engine speeds. I think that the V6 needs to run faster at highway cruising speeds than the V8. Still, you are right, the six speed would improve performance for the V6. I think that the six speed axle ratios will need to be different to improve performance for the V8. I can't see the 3.42:1 axle ratio the best ratio for the V8 with six speed.
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    It may not be "simple", but it shouldn't be too difficult. But, that's probably why I flunked electrical engineering.

    I'm going to experiment on my 2001 Seville STS, to see if I can make it work. I'll let you know if I have any success; (that is, if the car doesn't catch on fire with me in it!) My plan is to find the input for the CD player and use that input for the IPod.

    Anyway, no guts -- no glory!

    Thanx, and remember -- Life is Better at the Beach!
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    “Also, the transmission is calibrated to override the automatic gear selection during closed-throttle and high-lateral acceleration maneuvers, rapidly downshifting with nearly synchronous engine speed matching for quick power-up when the throttle is reopened.”

    This wording (nearly synchronous engine speed matching) sounds to me like it ** MIGHT ** mean that my (?) “rev match on downshift” will be a feature for 2007.

    http://www.media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.co- - m/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=26191

    - Ray
    Waiting . .
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    A reporter seeks to interview owners of the Cadillac STS-V. If you have one and care to share your story, please e-mail ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Friday, June 9, 2006 and include your daytime contact information in your response.
    Thanks for your consideration,

    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    Like the rest of the "Car Side" of GM, sales are down:

    http://www.media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.co- - m/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=26343

    Again, I am not picking on Caddy here - I wonder if 2007 STS's changes will be enough to increase sales significantly.

    And if the MSRPs, when announced, will be reduced - as several Ford 2007 products recently were.
    - Ray
    Wondering also if the current Dealer Marketing $$s will help move inventory this time . .
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Well, I think that the STS sales are about where I would expect them, about 25,000 annually. The CTS is a somewhat cheaper alternative to both the STS and the DTS. Changes for 2007 are almost no change at all, except for the transmission change, which is not going to sell more of them.
  • you know, if you have a cassette player, you can buy one of those line in plugs connected to a fake tape, they used to be around so you can play CD's, but i found out they can be used to play MP3 players too. Very cool.

    The only problem is, almost no one makes a car with a tape deck anymore, so the obviouse sollution would be to include a Line in for your MP3 player. GM has this feature on its Impala. WHY NOT ON YOUR FLAGSHIP SEDAN?

    This needs to be addressed seriously, b/c the STS does have one of the largest nav screens in its class, one of the best AWD systems on the market, amazing Magneride shocks, 15 speaker bose audio and plenty of advanced features, all of which cost more money than this simple feature. It would really suck if this car, about to revieve one of the most advanced transmissions in the world, is considerred infferrior due to a lack of simple technology.

    meybe the problem is GM is offering to many different options with this car, too many ratios too many transmissions too manyoption pakcages, and NOT ENOUGH OPTIONS! Oh, well, hopefully this will change soon, the difference here is that GM has an excellent product, they just need to keep it fresh.
  • dotbowelsdotbowels Posts: 43
    Local delivery ordered 2006 last fall for inventory. Could buy over weekend with no miles on it for $32,995 Lists for $44,380 Base with 1SB I passed because of winter issues. Are you seeing this type price in your area?
  • merckxmerckx Posts: 565
    No,they haven't seemed to be that low in Tidewater, Virginia..Where are you?
    I'm about to get a base car($41,700)for $34,000(plus some other discounts).
This discussion has been closed.