Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

b4z · April 2004

The STS is the same chassis as the SRX. Which is the same as the CTS exept for a 3" longer wheelbase and some width.
They actually build the SRX and CTS together.
I have sen pics of the CTS and SRX following each other on the assembly line.

I doubt if there will be 2 many problems with the startup of the STS.
They were building '04 CTSs last June. So I guess they can build '05 STSs.

rayainsw · April 2004

Job 1 (as I understand it now) is actually the first run of production vehicles for the model year. I believe that it used to refer to the first production unit down the line.

In any case, I am just curious when the new STS will likely start to show up in numbers at my local dealer. My guess is that if production is scheduled to begin in 6  8 weeks, then the press pre-production run is complete and in the hands of CD, R&T, etc. by now.

I was interested to read the weight difference between the V8 RWD and AWD of approx. 4230 - 3921 = over 300 #s.

And a GM expected 0-60 time of 5.8 for the RWD V8  and 6.6 for the AWD version . . .

Link: http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=reviews&content_code=02729100

And further interested to see (last paragraph) a top price of $66K. Seems like a loooong way from $47K base price for the RWD V8 version to $66K!

- Ray
Curiuos-er and curious-er . . .

rctennis3811 · April 2004

asian journalists around car???

You can see many journalists of different races around any new car at an auto show...

mbukukanyau · April 2004

I agree, But i though guys from overthe pacific seemed particularly intrested in the new American Luxo.
Its something different from the Norm, Euro/Japanese concortions. It should do well with Yakuza if it ever goes on sale in Japan

rctennis3811 · April 2004

Ahh gotcha!

But the Japanese mafia using an STS? I dunno about that. Whenever I go to Asia, people say they drive Nissan Glorias.

1487 · April 2004

The guy at the auto show said a loaded STS will be 62K, not 66K and he said they will reach dealerships in August.

rctennis3811 · April 2004

62K isn't bad..

illini · April 2004

In the list of colors for the 2005 STS I see Moonstone and Sand Storm. The other colors listed appear to be the same as the CTS.

What color is Moonstone?
How about Sand Storm?

rctennis3811 · April 2004

I'm betting Sandstorm is probably beige.

b4z · April 2004

Is dark grey with a lot of metallics.
This color is now on the SRX.

mbukukanyau · May 2004

rayainsw · May 2004

Answering my own question from a little while back: According to GM, "Uplevel brake package rotor dimensions measure 323 x 32 mm front and 320 x 26 mm rear. "
- Ray
Interested still, and wondering when first (preview) tests will be published . . .

mbukukanyau · May 2004

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-shots-2004/C/cadillac/ct- - - s-sts-v-plus_page_5.html

sevenfeet0 · May 2004

If this is true, it also speaks volumes to the future power of the Corvette Z-06. GM has wanted for a while to end any doubt that they weren't king of the hill against the Viper. It looks like they are serious.

mbukukanyau · May 2004

I am disappointed that Cadillac will not increase the Northstars displacement, or blow it instead choosing to soil Cadillac with Chevy and Pontiac engines.

eaton53 · May 2004

Possibly be "soiled" by choosing a 700hp engine?

erickpl · May 2004

are GM engines. I didn't think Cadillac made engines, but they did use GM parts...

-Paul

mbukukanyau · May 2004

In consumers mind, you do not want to pay top dollar for a Chevy powerplant. You pay top dollar for a Cadillac powerplant. See.
If GM is going to pendle the same Chevy stuff as a Cadillac (remember Catera?) then, the market will take them back to the drawing board.
Do not get me wrong, the LS6 is one of the best Engines in the world. World class, up there with the Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porsches. But its a Chevy Corvette engine. Not Cadillac.
Cadillac, needs its own credentials. Take the Northstar Powerplant, its known as a Cadillac engine, the same should happen with the V Series. Eventually Cadillac should develop special engines for their Cadillac V performance. Currently, they are selling you a corvette Powertrain in a Cadillac body.
See My point?

theo2709 · May 2004

Cadillac was caught testing a blown Northstar in an XLR the other day, reportedly similar to the 4.2L one in the Evoq concept.

erickpl · May 2004

I would think most Caddy owners or buyers have heard of the excellent Vette engines and don't mind having a 'Chevy' engine if it is from the Vette. Using that analogy, a Porsche is running a Subaru engine or Mercedes is using a Chrysler engine.

Having an engine in a particular car, in this case a Vette, you can pretty much get the idea of what it is capable of. They are proven. If a new Northstar becomes available, it has to prove itself in terms of power, mileage, and reliability. I think the Vette link provides that history and would put a Caddy owner at ease. Just my opinion though.

I do agree that the Northstars associate to Cadillac, but ultimately, it is STILL a GM engine, regardless of which brand using it.

-Paul

eaton53 · May 2004

"You pay top dollar for a Cadillac powerplant. See."

No. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with a Corvette engine (especially a tuner Corvette engine) in a Cadillac.

Unless they don't like kicking butt.

mbukukanyau · May 2004

Chevy = Mass Transit for the masses
Cadillac = Exclusive Luxury commute

eaton53 · May 2004

"Chevy = Mass Transit for the masses"

I don't know that many masses transit in Corvettes.
I'm sure it's a lot less than transit in DeVilles.

rayainsw · May 2004

"I don't know that many masses transit in Corvettes."

Hmmm. . .
"Mass transit"

Really fast - and in Latin?
- Ray
Who would be quite happy to have a Ford 427 side-oiler installed in my Lincoln . . .

erickpl · May 2004

It looks like this is going down the manufacturer image, but that is an important aspect to consider.

When you consider Cadillac's desired image: performance luxury, that is a stark contrast to what has actually been done in the past. I can't speak for anybody else, when I think of Cadillac I think of hearses, old retirement fleet cars, and tricked out Escalades.

Cadillac wants to get to that performance route. They are making great strides in the luxury department. Their racing endeavours at races like LeMans are gaining notice. But a great way to market the performance aspect is to HYPE the Corvette engine in their new sport sedans. During this time, they can continue their development of the powerful Northstars.

Tying to Corvette right now is a VERY smart marketing move. Not everybody is going to like that, but it does set a benchmark expectation for those looking at those new cars.

When I think of a Caddy with a LS6 engine in it, I think one word, "sleeper."

-Paul

markcincinnati · May 2004

. . .Cadillac has and is causing the worm to turn. The CTS was given a big #1 in the Road and Track comparo in the new issue. The CTS-V, for the money, has received a warm to a very warm reception too.

I see no reason, currently, to worry about this image issue -- Cadillac's image is evolving quite nicely, I think, FWIW.

GM has a lot to crow about, both currently in the showrooms and "coming soon" (with respect to Cadillac).

I read an article that seemed to be somewhat critical of the Northstar engine, claiming that it was overly complicated, lacking the design simplicity and possessing too much mechanical complexity -- this was an article, not an advertisement, praising the Chryco Hemi with MDS.

A lowly pushrod engine was lauded and, in some ways, was presented as an almost more reasoned alternative to the Northstar.

I can't recall but I think the article was in Autombile magazine or Car and Driver, but if I read the article in a vacuum, it would POSSIBLY make me come to the conclusion that the Northstar Engine was the way it was for Marketing Purposes not Performance Purposes and that Chryco (DC) actually had a better mousetrap if what you wanted was economy, performance and reliability (fewer moving parts).

I haven't seen anything that makes me think Cadillac is going to chinzt out on the upcoming generation(s) of automobiles it will bring to market -- there's just too much riding on it.

I don't know much about Corvettes, but what I think I know is that they have reputations for good engines. If someone told me my new STS had a Covette engine in it, I don't think that would be a bad thing.

FWIW.

aldw · May 2004

It basically comes down to DOHC vs Pushrods here, in the case of the market segment the V series vehicle compete in, nearly all of them (MB, BMW, Audi) use high output DOHC engines, so Cadillac would need to have something comparable to compete marketing wise.

mbukukanyau · May 2004

Complexity, exlusivity and high tech in luxo land yatch sells. Northstar is the way to go. Who has the best toy wins.

Cadillac should go Northstar exlusively.

eaton53 · May 2004

Buying a car for technical complexity is for fools, as many people who buy such cars are finding out the hard way.

There's an common engineering acronym called KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. To their detriment, the Germans don't seem to get KISS.

There's also an old sports saying that I also like to apply to engine horsepower.... "It ain't how, it's how many."

markcincinnati · May 2004

You may be right, but I disagree with your reasons. For marketing purposes perhaps the Northstar might be the way to go.

I'll bet there will be a high zoot Chryco Hemi super duper high wow output version of a 300C within, hmmm, 9 to 18 months -- it will be, in the usual car magazines, maxed out with special HP stuff and in AWD guise will be tested and pitted against the STS AWD.

While DOHC gets a lot of positive press, I suspect that the current DC Hemi MDS system has already earned the respect of some, who shortly ago, would have said "no way" to a pushrod engine.

If it goes, goes well, runs well, is fast and quick, reliable and even has a modicum of "economy" -- I, frankly, don't think the buying public will poo-poo it with their dollars just 'cause it ain't complex.

Just a thought.

mbukukanyau · May 2004

You forget what market Cadillac is going after, The BMW MB crowd. thats who.

callmedrfill · May 2004

1. Re: KISS. Look at the E500, with the 3-Valve V8. 5L, 302HP. That is simpler than 4-valve (BMW/Lexus) or 5-valve (Audi), no? But it is over 15% less effective in producing HP/Liter than a GS430 (4.3L), almost 25% compared to the 545i (4.4L)!

       Seems keeping it simple IS STUPID! Double Vanos, VVTL-i, Hybrids, even New-Gen diesels are more competitive than GM Pushrods!

   2. Not how, but how many? A 3800 lb. 530i can beat many cars with bigger engines and more HP/torque with their now dated 3L 225HP engine. It's not just how, but where (where is the torque/gearing)!

   I'm totally making a 2005 Acra RL vs. 2005 STS Board!

   DrFill

eaton53 · May 2004

"But it is over 15% less effective in producing HP/Liter"

Who cares? HP/Liter only matters when there are displacement taxes. The truly simple solution is to just add displscement..... easy to do on OHV motors because they are extra compact.

"Double Vanos, VVTL-i, Hybrids, even New-Gen diesels are more competitive than GM Pushrods!"

In the M5, those fancy, expensive solutions use more fuel and make less horsepower. There's no hybrid or diesel sports car, so much for that.

But diesel is a better solution than hybrid. Much simpler, just as efficient. Even the Europeans have gotten that. All they need to do is make some low sulfur fuel available.

tactown81 · May 2004

I to am very disappointed Cadillac has chosen to use the Vette motor. Some even complain the XLR is just an edgier Vette because they share the same platform. This is a marketing disaster and WILL NOT get BMW owners to trade in their Bimmers for Caddies. If Cadillac wants to be a world class luxury line they need to use world class technology and design. I think it is stupid that GM is not developing a new fancied up Northstar for all the higher end Cadillacs. Maybe they are, who knows, but dont put in old school pushrods to battle German and Japanese marvels or technology. Plain and simple a pushrod engine will never equal a dohc when it comes to refinement. Aren't luxury cars supposed to be refined??? Or am I mistaken.

eaton53 · May 2004

"Plain and simple a pushrod engine will never equal a dohc when it comes to refinement. Aren't luxury cars supposed to be refined??? Or am I mistaken."

It seems you are. Those who have reviewed the LS6 application in the CTS-V have commented that the level of refinement is very high.... much different than what they've seen in the Corvette.

And now we're seeing the 300C's powertrain getting rave reviews... hmmmmm....

"I think it is stupid that GM is not developing a new fancied up Northstar for all the higher end Cadillacs."

Actually, they're developing a V12.

graveman · May 2004

During the past two years, the Stability System on my 1997 STS has been malfunctioning (especially when the ambient temperature exceeds 75 degrees) by frequently engaging while driving on dry pavement.

Yesterday, driving from South Carolina to Ohio (12 hour trip), the Stability System engaged about every 3 to 5 minutes, until the last 4 hours of our trip when the ambient temperature dropped below 70 degrees.

Any idea what might be the cause of the malfunction?

merc1 · May 2004

Mercedes is going to correct those outputs with their next generatoin V8(s). The CLS will be the first model to feature one of these V8s. It should be a 4.6L with 340-355hp. All the "500" badged MB cars will get this V8 by 2007. The other V8 is a 5.5L with 405hp, which will transform the SL500, CL500 and S500 into "550" models. The S-Class will be the only class of MB to carry both V8s, with the next generation S500 (4.6L V8)taking the price point of today's S430.

M

rayainsw · May 2004

STS fearless prediction of times

Based on the XLR data (from an R&T comparison test) of:

WT: 3670
Final Drive: 2.93
Tires: 235/50 x 18
0-60: 5.8
Quarter: 14.1 at 101.9

My fearless prediction of STS V8 RWD magazine times:

( Assumptions 
HP: 320 = +10
5-speed trans: same
WT: 4026 [9.7% diff.]
Final Drive: 3.42 [16% diff.]
Tires: 255/45 x 18 )

0-60: 5.8
Quarter: 14.1 at 101.9

Just a guess.
But this should be interesting . . .
- Ray
Thinking that would be a pretty quick Sedan . . .

markcincinnati · May 2004

Perhaps refinement requires complexity -- don't ask me. Perhaps MARKETING copy demands the use of lots of TLA's and "current" technology.

Perhaps there is something deeply flawed in the Chyrsler 300C's Hemi with MDS.

Reading the editorial and analytical stuff being cranked out about this lowly pushrod engine, does not make me dislike complexity and cool new tech, it just elevates my perception of the the Pushrod Hemi -- and apparently I should be impressed with the Corvette application as used by Cadillac.

I think there can be co-existance of these technologies.

My BMW bigoted Co-workers and friends are all taking notice of the 300C and the Acura RL -- both engines do some interesting things with different approaches.

I think they want mo' power and mo' milage -- and if there is a diesel or a gasoline engine that can do that and they can buy it, it is unnecessary for the engine to tout a complex technological pedigree, now a refined engine, yes!

dhannahiii · May 2004

In the latest issue of AutoWeek Magazine, May 24th, there is a picture and story about the new STS-V sedan due in the summer of 2005. This "V" model stays true to the wreath-and-crest powertrain by running a supercharged Northstar V8 producing 400-plus hp (vs 320 hp in the normally aspirated version). More information will be due in next week issue of AutoWeek.

tactown81 · May 2004

NO Northstar V-12 in the STS-V??? Why develope a v-12 if you're only going to use it in the Escalade?

craig

callmedrfill · May 2004

Jes, Mercedes is going back to 4-valve tech on their engines, an Autoweek interview revealing that Mercedes sees the market wants more power/performance these days, so their new engines will supply it.

What did buyers want before?

drFill

merc1 · May 2004

Well the truth of the matter is the 3valve SOHC designs weren't going to be able to compete (without forced induction) in the hp contest Mercedes started I guess. The design make for great SC engines, but naturally aspirated they were low on power compared to the competition.

I'm waiting for the next generation V8 with hp from 340-600, 4.6, 5.5 and 6.3Ls.

I see Cadillac is going to do a supercharge Northstar. Sounds like it should be a hell of a motor. I wonder if they'll step up to the 500hp standard.

M

bhill2 · May 2004

The Corvette-engined CTS-V and the SC Northstar-engined STS-V are going to provide a very interesting contrast of a 'sophisticated' engine vs. a highly-developed but relatively 'unsophisticated' one. This should shed some light on what the additional sophistication of the Northstar gets you.

mbukukanyau · May 2004

V 12 Escalade will probably be used as a test mule for the 2007 DTS for $100 K plus,to go after S class and 7 Series. Lutz is already hyping it as usual, with Wagoner or Wagner (I do not know his name) saying they are looking at the #'s case.
With Lexus going for a $100K car above LS, GM has to follow suite. after all Buick is not in the game yet.

On the LS Vette engine, it may be Pushrod, but its not 'low tech' Its one of the most advanced automotive pieces out there. the LS6 Gen III may have its ancestor in the 'small block' but , its come a long way to all Aluminum, Advanced fuel injection and Engine management systems, to a complete redesign along the way.
This engine is as advanced as any racing engine out there.
The New LS6 Gen IV will push the envelop even further. Not just in Displacement but in performance.
The Z06 will be going after the New 911 Carrera Turbo, and since the Porsche is out GM has a Chance to best it in #'s.

There is another Vette or Cien planned to set site on Ford's Ferrari and Lamborghini slaying GT and the New Chrysler ME Four-Twelve Super Car which is already undergoing testing with several mules.

These are interesting times to be a car Buff. Congress might act soon or later, meanwhile We are all happy.

bhill2 · May 2004

I agree with you about the LS Vette engine, mbukukanyau. That's why I characterized it as highly developed. Also that is why I put the words sophisticated and unsophisticated in quotes; I was just using the terminology used in earlier posts. I own a C5 and enjoy it immensely, and I think that the ball is in the Northstar's court to show that its design translates into a meaningful improvement.

gteach26 · May 2004

I just got a new "insider" brochure in the mail. Yes, I am an official cadillac "insider" -- me and the millions of others who subscribed online.

In any case, it is a VERY slick presentation -- all black, letter-sized envelope -- large, high gloss pics of the interior and exterior in the brochure -- caddy seems to be going all out on this one. Just when I start to loose interest in this car something comes along to perk me up again.

Nothing new on release date -- just "Fall 2004".

The styling on this vehicle is growing on me and I get the feeling when I see it in person it might make a very nice impression. I guess this "insider" might just have to go on a test drive!

1487 · May 2004

I read somewhere that production starts in June. I would assume that cars will be at dealers by July or August. The rep at the NY auto show said August.

rayainsw · May 2004

Looking for an update that included job1 date  found this:


Distribution Updates
Updates for STS
Week of 5/24/2004
Effective 5/24/2004, the following changes will be made to the Vehicle Order Guide:

Mechanical section-Added (R8E) Gas Guzzler Tax as "A" in (6DC29) V8 1SG column with a footnote that reads "(R8E) is not orderable but will be automatically added when AWD (MV3) Transmission is selected".
Mechanical section-(MV3) Transmission, 5-speed automatic, added footnote that reads, " (R8E) Gas Guzzler Tax is automatically added to (MV3) orders.   quote from GM Dealer World.

Not good news.

- Ray

Who was hoping for at least decent gas mileage from all versions . . .

dispencer1 · May 2004

Where do you subscribe?

Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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