Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

bigdaddycoats · May 2004

Looking at that info, it appears that the gas guzzler tax is only added when the STS is ordered with the V8 and all AWD.

rayainsw · May 2004

"Looking at that info, it appears that the gas guzzler tax is only added when the STS is ordered with the V8 and all AWD. "

Agreed  hence the title of my post: V8 AWD = Gas Guzzler.

I am just a bit disappointed  particularly given the 17 or 17.5 gal. fuel tank.

And given the Jaguar XJ8 at EPA 18 / 28 and even the supercharged XJR at 17 / 24.
- Ray
Hoping to have seen 24 / 25 mpg EPA even on the V8 AWD - sigh

gteach26 · May 2004

...at the main cadillac site: www.cadillac.com

Click on the '05 STS and there'll be a "contact me with more info" link in there.

bigdaddycoats · May 2004

Did not notice that, sorry.

b4z · May 2004

I guess Cadillac could always classify the STS as a truck.
Just like the Chrysler 300.

blkcadillac · May 2004

Cadillac has came further than any other US carmaker. The new STS is beyond nice, and the DTS 2006/7 will be an evolutionary car. The V12, the last time I checked wouldn't not fit under the hood of the regular Cadillac passenger cars, only the SUVS, but that was like two years ago, changes may have been made since then.

Cadillac has great products and if twenty or thirty people on Edmunds dont buy Cadillac's there will be twenty or thirty-thousand (216,000 for 2003)people like me that will.

Besides all of that engine technology makes for a $high$ service bill, BMW, MB, Audi, you guys have had them.

theo2709 · May 2004

Sigma Heavy is being designed with V12s (and maybe higher

) in mind. The regular Sigma cannot house a V12.

rayainsw · May 2004

"Sigma Heavy "

Now I really LIKE that designation!
- Ray
"What do you drive now?"
"I drive a Sigma Heavy!!!"
Menacing . . .
(Maybe better than 'Hemi')

b4z · May 2004

The new 6 speed will probably get the STS out of the gas guzzler category.

rctennis3811 · May 2004

Nice name - Sigma Heavy.

So now there's going to be:
-Sigma Lite
-Sigma
-Sigma Heavy

Nice..

mbukukanyau · May 2004

Will this Sigma Heavy be for the DTS?

erickpl · May 2004

The Cadillac DTS goes on a Weight Watchers diet and goes from Sigma Heavy to Sigma Lite.. now it is the Catera.

-Paul

rctennis3811 · May 2004

I don't know. I think theo will know.

theo2709 · May 2004

Sigma Heavy is the codename for the full-size 7-series fighter platform, and it can be stretched to make a Sixteen-sized car.

Sigma Lite/Sigma Mass is Zeta.

markcincinnati · June 2004

. . .I am less enthusiastic about the new STS AWD. Why? Dealer says $62,500, email suggests less than $60K -- I'm thinking this car, based on nothing but 2d views and write ups here and there, is a great $50K car, but not a $59K car.

Acura SH AWD is looking better all the time, as is the Audi A6 for 05.

I've been wrong before, BTW.

mbukukanyau · June 2004

Remember the thing is bigger than a 5 series and btw a 5 and 7 Series. Wait until you see the thing and then judge it

rctennis3811 · June 2004

Couldn't that be said with all the new cars coming out???

nbfc260 · June 2004

Does anybody know when the release date is? I heard it was June and when i spoke with my dealership regarding it they said they dont know when they will be getting them in the showrooms. Thanks for your help.

bigdaddycoats · June 2004

They are scheduled to go on sale this fall.

Over the weekend I saw two of them on the road. A dark blue and a black one. They looked very nice. This is the first time I have seen them in person and you can definatley tell there is a difference from the CTS. The STS does have the same design but looks bigger and has softer edges. I wanted to turn around and get a better look but the better half wasn't interested.

b4z · June 2004

41 STSs built in May.
21 built his week.

I would expect for STS's to be on dealer's lots around August.

The next step is for this thread to graduate to the "SEDANS" board.

svevar · June 2004

The Chrysler 300C is not classified as a truck; the Dodge Magnum (with its flat load floor) is. Both vehicles' mileage figures (17/25 with the HEMI V8) wouldn't subject them to the gas guzzler tax, anyway.

-- Mark

rayainsw · June 2004

My Personal Assistant (!) said last week that pricing would be released today.

Has anyone else heard that? Or anything different?

- Ray
Wondering what a V8, 1SG, NAV, HUD and a heated steering wheel will list for . . .

rayainsw · June 2004

WOW.

It certainly includes lots of stuff (Sat Nav, heated and ventilated front seats, Xenon, Limited Slip, Performance Brakes, etc) - most all I would want, but . . .

And, as Mark said, this puts even a V8 RWD 1SG over $60K.

WOW.

- Ray
WOW. . .

bigdaddycoats · June 2004

Where are you finding the pricing???

markcincinnati · June 2004

Please no boos or hisses, yet. . .blurb in new Motor Trend magazine about a Chrysler 300C AWD SRT-8 -- 425 or 435 HP, more sport, more lux stuff -- wanna bet it will NOT exceed $44K?

Point?

The Cadillac may be too expensive.

I think I'll go back to Audi and still keep my eye on the new Acura RL.

Perhaps Cadillac will just add AWD to the CTS -- one of my employees just got a CTS, and it is REALLY nice, and not even a CTS-v.

rayainsw · June 2004

"Where are you finding the pricing??? "

Since I had been told that the official pricing would be released on the 10th, I contacted my local dealer. Clueless.

So I sent an e-mail to my (?) Caddy Personal Assistant requesting only two things: 1SG pricing and HUD availability.

I expect that it will be on Edmunds and KBB - and on the Caddy web site shortly.
- Ray
Remembering when I could buy a pretty nice new (whole) car for $13K . . .

b4z · June 2004

I tried to find pricing info but it has not been posted yet.

I did find a site with all of the options.
I am not at all happy with how Cadillac has bundled these options.

They have debundled options on both the CTS and SRX in response to criticism.

But haven't here.

Looks like you can't get the "Sport" package without buying the full on 1SC package(V6)

Can't get the 18" wheels on the V6 either.

The wood trim that they have shown in all the pics is OPTIONAL!

So I guess the base cars will have a sea of black trim on the center stack. Arrgh!

Go back to ala carte ordering Cadillac!

here is the site.

http://www.carprices.net/find_display/pricing_page.pl/Cadillac/ST- - S/STS_V6_RWD/2005/options.html?STS_V6_RWD=2005&Cadillac=STS

mbukukanyau · June 2004

The Cadillac may be too expensive."

Exactly what GM wants. They would like to move only 30,000 Per Year of the STS world wide, push Cadillac upscale, towards the $100 Ks and make for Buick to go for low price luxury. It may be a good way to do it. You know, when you see a Cadillac, you will know what those people paid for it.. That is the Idea

nbfc260 · June 2004

Here are the prices that i got from my personal asst. for the V8

standard V8 46,800
1SE package 2,845
1SF package 11,065
1SG package 13,100
AWD option 1,900
Dest. Charge 695.00

You need to get the 1SG Package in order to get the AWD option that is the only way to get AWD. Basically if you add up the V8,1SG,AWD and Dest. the vehicle comes out to over 62,500. If anybody has anything else regarding prices let us know.

bhill2 · June 2004

Hell, I remember when I could buy a pretty nice new Cadillac for $13K.

pearl · June 2004

I HOPE that the prices reflected in earlier posts (e.g. ~60K for a sport equipped V8 STS) are NOT accurate. In my humble opinion, Cadillac does not YET have the bonafides to charge this much for this car. Recall Lexus charging $35K for their new LS in '89. May not have covered all their costs, but caused a huge interest in the car and with its now bullet-proof acceptance of this marque can charge full market prices. Caddy's have lost their premium status and will not regain it by throwing their new car out against established marques at equal prices (e.g. Lexus LS430, Mercedes E500, etc). Cadillac needs to underprice these brands at least initially so that they can ensure they bring in buyers. If the quality and performance hold up, they will easily be able to raise the price into competitive areas.

dutchman · June 2004

I visited my local Cadillac dealer today and asked when the 1st STS was arriving. The guy told me July and asked if I'd seen the final pricing (which he was happy to share - even gave me a copy to take with).

I saw pricing for all seven V6 & V8 packages (3 V6 - Std, Luxury & Performance) and 4 V8 (same 3 plus a top of the line Prestige package which has everything).

Here's the details on the V6s:

Standard; MSRP: $40,995. Expected to account for 10% of V6 sales, 7% of total STS sales. Includes:
- Stabilitrak
-17" painted wheels
- 5 spd auto stick
- Express power windows (all 4)
- 8 way pwr seats
- Leather
- Keyless access with pushbutton start
- Remote start
- Bose w/ CD & 8 speakers
- Only a la carte option is Engine Block Heater

Luxury: MSRP: $43,470. Expected to account or 60% of V6 sales, 42% of total STS sales. Includes above plus:- Memory settings
- 6 disc changer
- Heated front seats
- Rainsense wipers
- Homelink
- XM Radio
-Wood package
- Only options Sunroof ($1200), 17" polished wheels ($600) & engine block heater
TOTAL PAACKAGE PRICE = $2,475

Luxury Performance; MSRP: $49,560. 30% of V6 sales; 21% of total STS sales. Includes all the above plus:
- Bose 5.1 surround sound, DVD & navi
- Rear heated seats & heated steering wheel
- Ventilated seats
- Performance brakes & lmtd slip differential
- Decklid spolier
- Uplevel wood trim
- 17" polished wheels
- Sunroof
- Only option is engine block heater
TOTAL PACKAGE PRICE = $8,565

The V8 started at $46,000 for base and went up to $61,995 for Prestige (which initially will be the only way to get AWD).

Don't know about you guys, but with a CTS Lux Sport running $41-$3K, this seems like an incredible price for this vehicle.

Sign me up!

rayainsw · June 2004

I HOPE that the prices reflected in earlier posts (e.g. ~60K for a sport equipped V8 STS) are NOT accurate. In my humble opinion, Cadillac does not YET have the bonafides to charge this much for this car.

I believe that the prices posted are an accurate reflection of MSRP. What these cars will actually sell for, after discounts / rebates, who knows.

Although I have not yet driven one, my sense is that this will be a very good car. (Whatever the opinions of the testers, once published, I expect to drive one or 2.) But even with the apparent success of the CTS-V, I am not convinced that many people will pay these prices for this car  yet.

Caddy clearly does have a long established reputation. But it is NOT in the high performance sedan arena. Caddy deciding to go up against the best (the standards) in the world (today) like the BMW 5, the new A6, the MB E-Class, etc. is going to be difficult for many reasons, really  but for Caddy, there is the added problem that many people in the market for a sedan of similar specifications will not even look seriously at the Caddy, because it has not yet established an ownership base in this class. If the pricing is also perceived to be rather high for the value received, sales will be even more difficult.

And decisions like only offering AWD with the V8 1SG will mean that the minimum list price will be in the $62K range. An AWD Caddy sport sedan may be of interest to some, but the number interested at that price is likely to be smaller than if base / 1SE V8s and V6s were also available with the option.

More aggressive pricing, at least to start, would be one way to raise awareness and better balance the value perception. And then, pricing could be adjusted.

Well see.
- Ray
No marketing wiz  but a potential buyer . . .

markcincinnati · June 2004

. . .in November 1996, I picked up my 1997 Audi A8 with the optional wheels and Peal White Metallic paint. MSRP was $71K. I essentially had a money factor of 0% and I got a 36 month lease which, as I recall was just south of $1000 month (no money down, Audi made the first payment, kind of thing).

The car was very nice -- Audi did, however lower the price and increase the content over the next few years.

I know there are a lot of Audi naysayers -- but at this time, Cadillac has about as much chance of getting me to shell out $62K for a first year STS as VW has of getting most of us to shell out $66 to $96K for a Phaeton.

The Lexus approach, as I have heard it called, is to convince the market by offering value and then move the price point upmarket.

The CTS seems like a pretty good car, maybe even a very good car -- the current other Caddys do not impress most Euro Premium buyers (and probably not many Japanese Premium buyers).

To put it into perspective, the Chrysler 300C may prove to be a bad value (a year or so from now). But, itintially, the 300C Hemi with all options seems to be "according to others, who write this stuff for a living" a lot of car for the money (I've read reviews of the 300C that claim it feels like a car $10,000 more).

The new Cadillac looks great and I might be a customer if I could order the V8, AWD and cherry pick an option or two to get the price (MSRP) in the low to mid 50's.

I guess I'll just say "too much $$$ too quickly" -- and this coming from a guy who thinks the Phaeton (if leased) is a heck-of-a bargain compared with t Mercedes which is subtantially more $$ and is only RWD.

I hope they, Cadillac, unbundles the options a bit, so that ordering AWD does not automatically add $11,000 - $13,000 in bundled options.

Hey, maybe it IS the bargain of the decade -- the issue, to repeat, is that without any history, this is too much money. I'll stick with the Germans and possibly the Japanese. And, who knows, perhaps the 300C SRT-8 might be the "steal of the decade" if you can stand entering a Chyrsler dealership.

At least the Cincinnati Cadillac dealers have learned how to "act" like the German Premium brand dealers. Not so the Herb Tarlicks that still populate Chryco dealerships -- plaid pants, white shoes and belts and all. . . .

C'mon Cadillac, throw us a bone, let us order the V6 with the AWD option or the V8 without the kitchen sink!

For the time being, Cadillac, your reputation (the one that you want) does NOT precede you.

rayainsw · June 2004

"in November 1996, I picked up my 1997 Audi A8 with the optional wheels and Peal White Metallic paint. MSRP was $71K. "

From the Audi A8 forum, regarding availability of the SWB A8: The A8 has a manufacturers suggested retail price of $66,590.

Does this make the 2004 A8 at this list price 'a bargain' - relatively speaking???

And with he new Caddy STS V8 AWD (1SG) apparently to be in the $62K range, does this mean that the STS will turn out to be a bargain?

- Ray
Rhetorical questions, I suppose . . .

mbukukanyau · June 2004

Does this make the 2004 A8 at this list price 'a bargain' - relatively speaking???

No, if you factor in the time value of money, I do not think it a bargain....

markcincinnati · June 2004

Well, bargains are in the eye of the buyer, so to speak. I think the new Chrysler 300C is probably a bargain, ditto the VW Phaeton (have you seen the lease deals?). The Audi, so I read, compared with it's competition, BMW 7 and Mercedes S is perhaps the value leader since it is the LWD version (currently) and has AWD.

The Acura RL, which I see is being presented "as if" it is in the same class as the Cadillac (July Automobile magazine, FWIW) and it will be maxed out at $49,650 w/SH AWD and a 300 HP [V6] engine -- bargain?

Who knows -- my point is that the STS at $62,500 equipped the way I would want it, just got about $8 to $10K too high.

markcincinnati · June 2004

. . .I went to the Cadillac site, and built a V8 SRX w/AWD and performance luxury options. About $54K.

What on earth makes Cadillac think the other $8,500 worth of stuff should be foisted upon the customer who wants, essentially, a V8 + AWD STS (which on the SRX is $1,900 -- that seems reasonable).

The STS must "cost" about the same as the SRX, wouldn't you think?

mbukukanyau · June 2004

I think what you pay above the reasonable price is the Brand mark up to shock and awe your neighbors as to how affluent you've become lately....
If they are cruising around in a cheap Benz and you have an STS worth $62K, they will get the message..... At these prices, you are beyond bargain hunting, you are essentially buying prestige.... Lutz calls Bargains in this Segment, Mass Luxury will leather, he want to move Cadillac away from that segment and let Buick take it, Hence the higher prices Cadillac is asking for.

bigdaddycoats · June 2004

Preliminary start-of-production prices.

Base Model Prices
Model...Model Description......................MSRP(c)...........Destination
6DW29...STS V6 Luxury Sports Sedan.............$40,300.00.........$695.00
6DC29...STS V8 Luxury Sports Sedan.............$46,800.00.........$695.00

Option Packages
Optioncode......Description.............................MSRP(c)
1SA.............1SA Standard Package....................$0.00
1SB.............1SB Luxury Package......................$2,390.00
1SC.............1SC Luxury Performance Package..........$8,595.00
1SE.............1SE Luxury Package......................$2,845.00
1SF.............1SF Luxury Performance Package..........$11,065.00
1SG.............1SG Premium Lux Performance Pkg.........$13,115.00
PCR.............Premium Upgrade Package.................$730.00
QAF.............Performance Handling Package............$795.00

Additional Options
OptionCode...Description................................MSRP(c)
K59..........Adaptive Cruise Control....................$2,300.00
MV3..........All Wheel Drive............................$1,900.00
V03..........Performance Cooling Package................$150.00
K05..........Engine Block Heater........................$100.00
29U..........Red Line Premium Color.....................$995.00
98U..........White Diamond Premium Color................$995.00
R8E..........Gas Guzzler Tax (w/MV3 AWD)................$1,000.00
IL3..........Premium Tuscany Leather Seats..............$1,200.00
U2K..........XM Satellite...............................$325.00
CF5..........Express Open/Close Sunroof.................$1,200.00
__________________

rayainsw · June 2004

"1SE.............1SE Luxury Package......................$2,845.00"

Given that this is the 1st level package for the V8, any list of what options are included?

No link I have seen specifies what this includes.

Must be some of what is included in 1SF and 1SG - but $2,845 to $11,065 seems like a BIG jump to me. . .

Thanks,
- Ray
Curious . . .

rayainsw · June 2004

Plowed through the order guide  twice.

Looks to me like 1SE includes:

Memory Pkg  A45
Heated Front Seats  KA1
Heated Rear Seats  KA6
Sound System  YQ2
Leather Heated Steering Wheel  NR7
Homelink  VG1
Wood Trim (some)  B19
Electrochrome rearview mirror w/compass  DD7

Not a sunroof.

Plus ability to order some additional options (sunroof) separately.
But some (LSD) you still cannot order with just the 1SE.
Interesting. (Sort of.)

But this is really still a guess.

- Ray
Still waiting for Build My Caddy / STS to be added to their web site . . .

rayainsw · June 2004

KBB shows EPA highway = 26 mpg for V8 w/3.42.

- Ray
Thinking that (at least) is pretty reasonable . . .

rayainsw · June 2004

Although Edmunds still does not seem to have pricing / availability (Caddy had not yet put it under build your Caddy on their web site, either) according to KBB, you cannot order an STS without at least the 1SE package - $2,845. And my experience has been that KBB is pretty accurate.

This makes the real, current minimum base MSRP for the V8 = over $50K.

- Ray
Not understanding this marketing strategy . . .

blkcadillac · June 2004

This from GM's website
2005 Cadillac STS luxury performance sedan will start at $40,995, including a destination freight charge of $695.
4.6L Northstar engine with 320 horsepower and 315 lb-ft. of torque, will start at $47,495 (including DFC of $695.
I think the prices are priced just right..Cadillac does not need to be looked at as a good value budget luxury car like Acura is....Any valet will just to a Cadillac before they jump into a bland Acura. So what if they seem pricey then don't buy. Cadillac keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!

rayainsw · June 2004

Understand.
I could have been more specific - I was referring to Options / Packages pricing and availability.
- Ray

Robberbarron · June 2004

"It also have a bunch of industry first such as an adjustable screen and automatic high/low beam operation. "

Yeah, Cadillac had automatic high/low beam back in what, 1955?

My 1985 Lincoln Continental had it too.

Robberbarron · June 2004

" This is a marketing disaster and WILL NOT get BMW owners to trade in their Bimmers for Caddies."

BMW owners won't trade in their Bimmers for Caddies because the Caddies don't have the blue and white rondel on the hood.

BTW, CTS is outselling the 3 series these days.

sevenfeet0 · June 2004

That feature was known as "Guidematic headlamps" and they indeed date back to the '50s. The problem with them was that they used a simple light sensor to determine whether or not to dim the lights, and in practice it didn't work as well as it could.

The new system uses a computer sensor to make some judgements on whether or not an oncoming car is resposible for the approaching light, or whether or not it is something else. The system will hopefully have a fast reaction time than the previous systems.

mbukukanyau · June 2004

Tacttown. It was great that Cadillac Choose the Vette Motor, The LS6 is one of the most and respected powertrains in the world today.
Though its a Pushrod its also a very advanced engine. Its not the so called Small block of the 60's. Its completely redesigned and engineered with all the electronic wizardry of the new milinium....

No wonder M3 foreign car owners are quickly dissapointed when they try to light a candle in the precense of the Z06

Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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