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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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  • todd11todd11 Posts: 23
    Ant,

    Will the controls/buttons on the armrests in the doors also be illuminated at night?
    Was also wondering if the center armrest is sliding and adjustable for a perfect driving position , and does the engine hood have hydraulic lifts or the old fasioned prop thing.

    Where doyou estimated the 0 to 60 times will be with the 6 cylinder and the six speed auto to be. I think it has a good chance to get in the range of 7.7 to 7.9...what do you think?
  • todd11todd11 Posts: 23
    Ant,

    Almost forgot, is there an engine light?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes, majority of buttons will be illuminated for nighttime visibility. Actually Ford (by far) illuminates as many interior buttons as possible. Something Honda or Toyota doesn't seem to yet grasp. Contour I remember, was one vehicle where night time illumination on the door, went a bit overkill.

    As for armrests, it's pretty much kept simple as the engine bay and such. Final details haven't yet been released concerning that.

    As for 0-60MPH estimates, look around mid to lower 7's, thanks to the 6 speed automatic.

    I'll be on vacation for the next 3 weeks, in an isolated vacation island with no internet/phone, so I won't be able to answer as much as I have been.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I don't think the illumination on my contour (1996 GL) door is overkill. I think it looks nice. There is just a little light so you can see the door handle. It only works about 1/2 the time on the driver's door now, though.
  • f111df111d Posts: 114
    Automobile article April 2005
    By Richard Feast
    German automakers were once synonymous with great quality. What happened?

    Unfortunately it can't be read on-line yet even though it's the first day of May, well it is Sunday. Not sure when the folks at Automobile release archives for on-line viewing?
    One thing I always thought was Detroit's down fall, their inability to deal with electronics.
    Looks like Germany manufacturers have fallen into a similar trap. We'll just throw electronic at the consumers! IE: Quote from the article - "Many quality failures stem from the blinkered pursuit of the latest electronic technology" .
    Blinkered, love that description. Richard Feast must be from England? That's the word I've been looking for the last 20 years to describe Detroit's approach to electronics. Bean counter engineered electronics that is. I've been told cost-effective engineering is taught in college. But cut it some more knowing it will fail? I think not! Got that tid-bit from the owner of parts supplier to Detroit.
    My point is maybe car manufactures should stick to what they should know best (IE:driving dynamics for one) and let the after market electronics provide the toys? ABS is still pain to cost-effectively maintain or even prove if it's really working as designed. Very few error codes let along performance codes are in my PCM. (OBD II enhanced manufacture propeitary)
    I know this one device that needs integrated into to driving dynamics , but a one generitc algorithm fits all? NAW!. ABS has a long way to go. I'll try to explain (I've never been close to an english major) since I unknowingly learned threshold braking and I'm sure Bosch or whoever has played with this design, an ABS system does not need to increase stopping distances even on wet/snowy pavement! I been told by a Ham radio contact, it has been toyed with and works. Best way to explain it - "it's not the stomp and hold design". I'm guessing the better the driver the shorter the distance?
    Sure hope the engineers at Ford are paying attention? Actually all car manufacturers need to offer such an option. Option! Not standard if they can't offer a real ABS! At least for the Fusion it is optional - thank-you for not forcing a half-baked option!

    Paul
    N8BUU
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    With the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr now using the Duratec 3.0L, are all of the final run Tauruses for 2006 going to be Vulcan powered?

    ~alpha
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes, Vulcan will be the sole engine for the Taurus in 2006.
  • tkfitztkfitz Posts: 95
    There was a time when Ford offered Escort,Focus,Contour,Taurus and Crown Vic. Quite a range of sizes and options. Soon to be just Focus, Fusion,Five Hundred and the venerable old CV. Fewer choices??
    What distinguishes the Fusion from the somewhat unpopular Contour?
    It almost seems like the late model Taurus will remain the best value for the buck. Older proven tech at a truly bargain price.
    This strategy seems to blurs the difference between Ford and GM. Their 3.8 remains a viable alternative to their pricier newer tech in several models. Very respectible fuel economy as well...
    This said the Five Hundred really does offer a comfortable, pleasing package.
    What will the Fusion offer?
    I cannot wait to test drive one.
    I
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    There was a time when Ford offered Escort,Focus,Contour,Taurus and Crown Vic. Quite a range of sizes and options. Soon to be just Focus, Fusion,Five Hundred and the venerable old CV. Fewer choices??

    Unless I missed something, since the Contour was discontinued in 2000, Ford has had only the Taurus, Focus, and Crown Vic. So the range of choices in 2006 will be greater than it has been for the last 4-5 years.

    From the numbers I have seen the Fusion is larger than the Contour by about 5 inches in length. I would assume this larger size will mean more back seat room...the numbers show 3 inches of additional leg room over the Contour. This should be enough to make for a much more usable back seat than the Contour had.
  • todd11todd11 Posts: 23
    Wheelbase..........Fusion....107.4.........Camry......107.1........Accord.......107.9
    Length.................Fusion......190.2.......Camry......189.2........Accord.......189.5
    Width..................Fusion.......72.2........Camry......70.7..........Accord.......71.5- -
    Height..................Fusion.......55.8........Camry.....58.3..........Accord........57.- - 1
    Front Headroom....Fusion.......38.7........Camry.....39.2..........Accord.......38.3
    Front Shoulder.......Fusion......57.4........Camry.....57.5..........Accord.......56.9
    Front Legroom.......Fusion......42.3........Camry......41.6.........Accord.......42.6
    Front Hip..............Fusion.......54.0........Camry.....54.4..........Accord.......54.6
    Rear Headroom......Fusion.....37.8.........Camry.....38.3..........Accord.......36.8
    Rear Legroom........Fusion.....37.0..........Camry....37.8..........Accord.......36.8
    Rear Shoulder........Fusion.....55.6..........Camry....56.7..........Accord.......56.1
    Rear Hip................Fusion.....53.6...........Camry....54.1.........Accord.......53.5
    Trunk Volume.........Fusion.....15.8..........Camry....16.7..........Accord......14.0
    Curb Weight V-6.....Fusion......3,280........Camry....3,362.......Accord.......3,384
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    This chart should explain why all comparisons to the Contour are badly off course. One of the reasons the Contour failed in this country was the real lack of any room in the back seat. As Todd has so amply demonstrated, this horse is of an entirely different color....
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    Wheelbase..........Taurus...108.5...Fusion....107.4.........Camry......107.1........Accord- .......107.9
    Length.................Taurus...197.6...Fusion......190.2.......Camry......189.2........Ac- cord.......189.5
    Width..................Taurus...73.... ...Fusion.......72.2........Camry......70.7..........Accord.......71.5
    Height..................Taurus...56.1....Fusion.......55.8........Camry.....58.3..........- Accord........57.1
    Front Headroom....Taurus...40........Fusion.......38.7........Camry.....39.2..........Accord....- ...38.3
    Front Shoulder.......Taurus...57.3....Fusion......57.4........Camry.....57.5..........Accord....- ...56.9
    Front Legroom.......Taurus...42.2.....Fusion......42.3........Camry......41.6.........Accord....- ...42.6
    Front Hip..............Taurus...N/A.......Fusion.......54.0........Camry.....54.4..........Accor- d.......54.6
    Rear Headroom......Taurus...38.1.....Fusion.....37.8.........Camry.....38.3..........Accord....- ...36.8
    Rear Legroom........Taurus...38.9.....Fusion.....37.0..........Camry....37.8..........Accord...- ....36.8
    Rear Shoulder........Taurus...56.6.....Fusion.....55.6..........Camry....56.7..........Accord..- .....56.1
    Rear Hip................Taurus...N/A.....Fusion.....53.6...........Camry....54.1.........Accord- .......53.5
    Trunk Volume.........Taurus...17.......Fusion.....15.8..........Camry....16.7..........Accord...- ...14.0
    Curb Weight V-6.....Taurus...3.306..Fusion......3,280........Camry....3,362.......Accord.......3,384
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The Contour was beat-up over back seat space, but while the space was limited at least the back seat is at a comfortable height...some other cars supposedly have more legroom but the back seat is too low to be comfortable.

    I think the problem was the lack of rear seat space combined with the price being too close to the Taurus. I think most people just did not see the value in the Contour, when they could buy a Taurus for a few dollars more.
  • todd11todd11 Posts: 23
    Ford claims that hydraulic engine mounts are a rarity in the midsize class in which the fusion will compete. The Fusion will have this along with the tilt/telescoping steering wheel. Does the Camry, Accord, Altima,Mazda 6 have these features?
  • f111df111d Posts: 114
    My dealer was and is still upset for dropping the Contour's and Mystiques! Ford told him the Focus would cover that niche. I told him the're crazy in 2000. He now agrees.
    Majority of what he is selling is 2-3 year old Taurus/Sable from the Ford auctions.
    I'm keeping my 98 Mystique LS for at least 10 more years.
  • f111df111d Posts: 114
    Whats the limit on all these size increases? I'm assuming only so much suspension retuning/re-engineering/what ever can done to keep the NVH under control?
    I'm guessing this is just another automotive design fad or is there something useful going, besides bigger brakes.
    Any hint of affordable tire prices yet?
    Hoping manufactures don't over do it and leave the Amish tractors wheels where they belong?
    Paul :D
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Whent he Focus debuted many years ago, the interior dimensions of the vehicle placed it very close to that of the Contour. Considering the Contour was expensive to manufacture as well, Ford decided to drop it since some of the Focus trim levels crept upwards into that of the Contours. Since the Taurus' base pricing, also seem to fall into the upper half of the Focus', that just added fuel to the fire to get rid of the Contour.

    Granted, the Contour was an excellent driver's car at the time, but seldomly appreciated because of it's tight interior dimensions. Luckily, the vehicle has worked great for other markets around the world...Called the Mondeo in Europe, the vehicle has received rave reviews because of it's performance. Granted, it has grown in size since it's '95 birth.

    I do have to say I personally believe the Contour gave people a greater appreciation for driving and enjoying their vehicles, and is one of the few (at that time) that placed greater emphansize into displaying that. Remember in the early 90's, the "trend" was cushy quiet non-involving vehicle dynamics, which didn't agree with some buyers, who might have shopped otherwise.

    Fast forward 10 years, and suddenly "european atheletism" is the trend, with greater effort placed in giving the driver better control and feel over their vehicles. So you might think... Was the Contour ahead of it's time ?

    Now with the introducion of the Fusion, it's being placed above that of the Focus, and it's pricing will top out in the CV/500 territory. Mainly because, people are willing to pay for more luxury/options, given the dimensions of their vehicles.

    Old-School thinking was, the price of the vehicle reflected it's size, therefore U.S. buyer's wouldn't be able to swallow a $30K Focus, yet Europeans are willing to pay a price premium for options/toys, without relating it to the size of the vehicle.

    The 500 will be positioned above the Fusion, and the CV isn't really classified as their flagship, as does the 500. Unfortunately, there's been numerous comparison placing the 500 directly against the Camry/Accord, maybe it's wishful thinking on some people's part that the "Taurus" has grown up substantially in size, but it's the Fusion that really replaces it, not the 500. The 500 offers a step up in space with FWD/AWD drivetrain, while the CV does do with RWD and V8 power.

    In other words, you can cover more bases with more products, rather than trying to fit one product for 400K+ buyers...
  • tkfitztkfitz Posts: 95
    Family sedan buyers really need a viable domestic four cylinder choice.
    Hope the Fusion provides one.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    hmmm. A Fusion is built in Mexico. An Accord or Camry is most likely built in the USA, as will be most Hyundai Sonatas. Domestic???
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    Yes Domestic. Stop pretending like you don't know the truth and susequently the falsehood of what you are implying. The money paid to American workers in those factors is pennies compared to the amount of money that turns in Japan due to the composition of their stock holders as well as the fact the MOST of Toyota's workforce and leadership is based in Japan. With the domestics, the money is cycled through in the American economy. Also keep in mind why domestics are building elsewhere. UAW would rather see GM file bankruptcy than pay a dime in healthcare costs.

    A company, by definition, has a responsibility to increase stockholder value. And intuitively that amount has to be greater than what they pay employees. If it weren't, it'd be better to be an employee than to own the company. Where do Toyota's stockholder's live in majority? That is where the money is trully turning in the economy.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I am not pretending anything. I just don't want people to think a Ford Fusion is made in the USA. It isn't. I see no great moral superiority from a BUY AMERICAN mentaiity in driving a Mexican Ford vs. a USA assembled Camry. I am sure there are other places for these discussions, and I am not going in depth here. But to pretend that a Mexican Ford is a domestic is a fallacy at best and deceitful at worst.

    I should probably add that I think the whole idea of Buy American is overly simplistic these days. Even twenty years ago. I shall never forget the Isuzu built Japanese Chevy LUV trucks my local dealer had happily plastered BUY AMERICAN stickers on in my very pro-union home town, nor the steel or oil refinery workers who bought them, perhaps in part because of the stickers and the good old Chevy name. As I type this, GM in particular is putting strong pressure on its suppliers to cut costs, even if that means offshoring. The Equinox engine, for example, is built in China.

    I own a Five Hundred. I've owned Maximas and GM Chevy Toyota Novas.

    But I bet Ford does NOT go out of its way to trumpet where Fusions are made.

    Many other so called American cars are built in Canada, and have been for years.

    The whole domestic vs. foreign thing is far more complex than most realize. And the amount of Japanese investment in the US and Canada in parts, engine, transmission and assembly plants is far greater than most realize as well.

    Lastly, falsehood? Pretending? I have remained civil here. I beseech thee NOT to call me a liar. There are rules of civility here. There is room for differences of OPINION. OPINION. Not facts. Show me one place I have lied. Otherwise, back off and be nice. Thanks.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Oddly enough the Fusion's Japanese sister is built in Michigan on the same line as what is arguably the most recognizable American car.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Can you be a little less cryptic there.

    What "Japanese sister"? and what American car?
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Johnclineii, for what its worth- I highly value the contributions you make to these threads. You post with a dexterity of script that makes reading the facts you present and opinions you state very enjoyable, both informative and entertaining. Additionally, there is a clear distinction between the two. Please do not take the incivility of one to speak for the consensus of many.

    Also- The GM Chevy Toyota Nova- my auntie had an 88 that was a phenomenal vehicle, with its 74 horses and 3 speed auto!!!

    Anyway, have a great day!

    ~alpha
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,820
    What "Japanese sister"?

    The Mazda 6

    and what American car?

    The Ford Mustang

    Both vehicles are built in Flat Rock, MI at a Mazda/Ford joint venture plant.

    You folks can fight over domestic vs import. Today the auto business is global. We drive Mexican made VW's, American made Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, MB's, South African made BMW's, et al. We export American made Toyotas, Jeeps, etc.

    As for the money, yes it eventually goes back to the country the company is based in but they also spend billions investing in new plants all around the world - including here. Who owns stock in Toyota? If you own a mutual fund, probably you. As an FYI, you can own a little piece of Honda right here in the USA by buying their ADR's under the symbol HMC.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,876
    This topic is not about domestic vs. import, and what qualifies as one over the other. Please stick to talking about the Fusion & Milan, and what we can expect from these twin vehicles.

    MODERATOR
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  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    I'm not a union expert but I would think that the UAW would WAKE up a little when they see Hyundai opening up a US factory.

    Obviously there has to be some cost advantage to Hyundai. Granted it insults them a little bit better from currency fluctuations. But if non-union american workers can build a car cheap enough to may Hyundai happy the UAW is in big trouble.

    If the Fed does not do something to take some of the health care burden off of Ford GM and Chrysler, there is a disaster looming for the US economy.

    At this rate, the out look for Ford in its current form seems kind of bleak.

    Even if the Fusion is a great car, Ford is only expecting to sell about 175k. Compare that to the 300+k Camarys and 300+k Accords.

    This product is coming to the market about two or three years to late for Ford.

    Mark
  • f111df111d Posts: 114
    Beautiful explanation! Thanks!

    Too bad GM and Ford just got put to junk bond status and all the foreign entities are shining! Can't blame it on benefits alone, but sign of the times many many things. I know Kristie but unfortunately politics is closely thighed to car design, a-la global.
    all I wanted was bang for the buck, fun to drive, useful within the limits of economical but unfortunately kiss doesn't exist in the globe economy. At least not my budget now.

    Paul
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,699
    f111d... do we have some subliminal messages going on here for the host? if not too bad there isn't a grammar checker.
    i think the fusion can be a big hit, as long as ford doesn't fall into their ways of the past 10 years or so of squeezing the life out of the suppliers, and cutting the overall product as in ages, instead of improving it.
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