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If true, don't blame the electric-ness. VW has electric power steering and their system is fine.
Also I wonder if the system is adjustable, like VWs. Does the sport model have hydraulic or just a different setting on the electric?
IIRC, the steering on the Sport is hydraulic.
this goes for any other concerns, also.
There really no other source to get a set of consistently derived numbers to compare. I don't know that there is any reason to assume that one's deviation from EPA figures for model X will be any different that that for model Y. Meaning if model X and Y are both rated at 25 mpg, you can expect to get about the same mpg from either one. You may actually get 22 or you may actually get 28, but you will not get 22 from X and 28 from Y.
they are derived from identical testing conditions, but are they relevant?
believe them if you want to.
a few years ago, the focus was rated at 34 mpg highway.
the next year, the same car was rated at 37 mpg.
why? the engine computer mapping was changed to maximize fuel economy, instead of minimize smog.
you could go to the dealer, and get your previous model year car's computer reflashed, if you wanted to.
in this case, you could get different results from the same X.
And that's why the EPA test is the only valid way to COMPARE 2 vehicles and that's all it is useful for. There are far too many variables to compare one driver's mileage with another.
If your EPA rating is 30 and you get 35 then you can expect 30 out of a vehicle that's EPA rated at 26.
Background
Existing Tests and Methods
Fuel economy estimates have been provided to consumers since the 1970s as a tool to help shoppers compare the fuel economy of different vehicles. Currently, EPA relies on data from two laboratory tests to determine the city and highway fuel economy estimates. The test methods for calculating these estimates were last revised in 1984, when the fuel economy derived from the two tests were adjusted downward – 10 percent for city and 22 percent for highway -- to more accurately reflect driving styles and conditions.
The city and highway tests are currently performed under mild climate conditions (75 degrees F) and include acceleration rates and driving speeds that EPA believes are generally lower than those used by drivers in the real world. Neither test is run while using accessories, such as air conditioning. The highway test has a top speed of 60 miles per hour, and an average speed of only 48 miles per hour.
Since the mid-1990s, EPA's emissions certification program has required the use of three additional tests which capture a much broader range of real-world driving conditions, including high-speed, fast-acceleration driving, the use of air conditioning, and colder temperature operation (20 degrees F). These conditions affect not only the amount of air pollutants a vehicle emits, but also a vehicle’s fuel economy. However, these tests were not required to measure fuel economy.
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Background
The New Methods to Determine Fuel Economy Estimates
For the first time, the EPA fuel economy estimates will use vehicle-specific data from tests designed to replicate three real-world conditions, which can significantly affect fuel economy: high speed/rapid acceleration driving, use of air conditioning, and cold temperature operation. Previously, these conditions were accounted for by across-the-board adjustments, rather than by vehicle-specific testing.
EPA’s new fuel economy estimates will also reflect other conditions that influence fuel economy, like road grade, wind, tire pressure, load, and the effects of different fuel properties. The fuel economy for each vehicle model will continue to be presented to consumers on the label as city and highway MPG estimates.
In 2011, manufacturers will need to perform additional cold temperature, air conditioning, and/or high speed/rapid acceleration driving tests for those vehicles most sensitive to these conditions. However, in order to provide consumers with better fuel economy estimates sooner, EPA will use new calculation methods that capture these driving conditions. These estimates will begin with model year 2008 vehicles. The interim period from model year 2008 to model year 2011 will give manufacturers enough time to plan for this additional testing, while providing consumers with estimates that capture more realistic driving conditions.
Maybe you want to be a little more specific, what in those paragraphs leads you to believe that EPA estimates are going to be less representative for one car vs. another? As long as they are equally representatve, then they are useful for comparisons.
Where people go wrong is they take their personal real world mpg figures and compare them to EPAs for a new car they are considering. For example, they get 35 mpg in a car with an EPA rating of 30 and then they say what is wrong with car A, it only get 30 mpg (EPA) and I am getting 35 in car B. Or they were getting 25 mpg in a car, that they have forgotten was rated 30, and then they complain when their new car, with a rating of 25, only gets 21 mpg.
In addition, there are all sorts of potential sources of error in a single 400 mile test. I think if you repeated a single measurement like that with the exact same car, you could see measured results vary by 10-15% between runs.
this is not limited to the fusion.
it's my opinion that real world test results are as valuable, if not moreso, than the EPA tests, which cannot be duplicated outside of an artificial environment.
There are simply too many variables outside of the EPA tests that affect achieved fuel economy to use that as a yardstick. I'm not saying you should ignore it, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt.
The EPA tests are at least controlled to eliminate as many variables as possible.
If you want to look at "real world numbers", here are some:
http://fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=mpgData&vehicleID=23563&browser=true&de- tails=on
Let us know what you learn from studying these numbers that range from 13-37 mpg.
here is another: fusion fuel mileage
i learned you are coming around to my way of thinking, which is check multiple sources.
I'm assuming the one you are buying is not the Hybrid. Does it have leather seats?
Do you know how your price compares to MSRP?
I live in the northern Twin Ciites area. Can you share which Ford dealers are giving you the best price quote for the 2010 Fusion?
I was also told a non-hybrid Fusion should be arriving in the showroom during the first or second week of March.
Kevin512
Thanks
http://fueleconomy.gov/
Build & Price 2010 Fusion
http://bp2.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/services/cars-proxy/BP2/CompareModels/Com- pareModels_8801F25B-CD1A-E963-956A-8561956A8561.pdf
** Fuel economy when operating on E85 will yield different values
than gasoline. See Fuel Economy Guide for more information.
EPA says: FFVs operating on E85 usually experience a 20-30% drop in miles per gallon due to ethanol’s lower energy content.
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml
Why is there such a big difference in mpg between the different 4 cyl trim levels? With auto there is about 10% lower hwy mpg for the SE and SEL compared to S :confuse: .
6-speed automatic (S) 23 mpg city/34 hwy.
6-speed manual (S) 22 mpg city/31 hwy.
6-speed automatic (SE, SEL) 22 mpg city/31 hwy.
6-speed manual (SE) 22 mpg city/29 hwy.
I don't know what you're comparing it to, but it looks competitive to me. Not great, but not terrible. 1 mpg city and 1-2 mpg hwy is pretty close.
Fusion V6 18/27
Camry V6 19/28
Accord V6 19/29
I went to two dealers today. Freeway Ford quoted for a Sport Blue Metallic, SEL, FWD, 6 speed auto, Moon & Tune and remote start, $24300.98. Apple Valley Ford matched those numbers. I didn't get in trade what I was hoping for my 2007 Freestyle with 14200 miles but I like the price for the Fusion. One salesman took me to the reps house to see a fully loaded Sport. All I can say is WOW, this is one beautiful car! It's a horse apiece who I go with, so I'm going to try to get molded splash guards added for no charge and flip a coin.
Based on what I've been reading on other forums most people feel the same including me. However it was pointed out that the new D30 does have 20 more horses and does get at least 1 MPG more on the highway. So it's not a total loss.
Well you can get the D35 in the 2010 Fusion now and it's MPG estimates are the same as the D30's. Only you get about 25 more HP and a sport tuned suspension among other sport model extras. Being that the sport model is supposedly tuned for performance I have no doubt it could compete with the Accord's 3.5L in FE if tuned for normal use. If you truly want FE don't get a V6. If you truly want performance, don't get an Accord or Camry V6 because they have nothing special in the way of sport over their base models. We should all wait for a proper comparo before issuing final judgement though.
if you take a look back at the performance chart from the c&d comparison test powertrain, the fusion is down 15 hp to the accord.
the accord wins the 0-60 by half a second(7.5 to 8.0).
the fusion and the accord have the same final drive ratio and pretty much the same
top gear ratio, although the fusion is a six speed vs a 5 speed.
in top gear acceleration 30-50 fusion wins by 1.8 (11.9 to 13.7)
50 to 70 fusion also wins this time by 1.6(11.4 to13.0)
this is a measure of real world torque, which ford emphasizes over hp/liter.
of course, i realize you can downshift if you don't want to accelerate in top gear.
After posting, I did notice the skinny tires on the Fusion S. I doubt the gearing is any different between the different trim levels. Higher trim would have more weight, but that would be the case with any model of car and I can not recall ever seeing different fuel economy ratings for different trim levels for any other model. I have only ever seen different numbers for each engine and transmission combination.
I appreciate the information. Those seem like good prices considering this is the first month of availability, I didn't think it would be possible to get much under MSRP before summer. I'm going to talk to Midway Ford in Roseville once they have a vehicle available for a test drive (hopefully within the next two weeks), I've always gotten good service there on my '02 Explorer. Your numbers will give me a price to aim for.
I need to decide between an SEL and Hybrid. If I can get the $3400 tax credit for the hybrid, I may go that route. If not, I'll probably be looking at the exact same model and options you are looking at.
Kevin512
Does anyone know if push button starting is offered? I actually prefer the standard key with remote functions.
Also, with the bump from 220 to 240 HP on the 3.0 V6, do we know if there's a corresponding bump in torque?
Thanks.