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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Toyota Avensis is a compact car - it is smaller than Camry and slotted between Camry and Corolla. To have an idea how small Avensis is - take a look at Scion tC - it is coupe version of Avensis. Mondeo is a bigger midsize car and it become bigger over time because Ford dropped midsize RWD Scorpio which was the only luxury car offered in Europe by Ford. By dropping Scorpio Ford moved in direction of cheapening its image in Europe. It simply could not compete anymore with Audi and BMW. And well it had hard time even competing against VW which is considered as a premium brand compared with Ford. But now since Jaguar is unloaded Ford can go upmarket in Europe as well as in USA.

    But in general both Mondeo and Opel Insignia are considered as better cars that any of Japanese midsizers in Europe, like Honda Accord aka Acura TSX in US, Toyota and Nissan anything (Camry is not sold in Europe because it is such a piece of junk by European standards). Mazda was always doing better in Europe than Toyota, but I do not know how Mazda6 is doing, but since basically Ford clone, it has to do well.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    So then Ford is certainly not priced as a premium brand in the UK, since the Mondeo is less than the Accord.

    The UK Focus starts at about 80% of the Mondeo price, just as the US Focus starts at about 80% of Fusion's. The UK Fiesta starts at 72% of UK Focus price. If the US Fiesta starts at 72% of Focus that'd be about $11,500. That's why I'd expect Ford to put the price at $11-12K.

    I had no idea the Fit started as high as $14K, but the Yaris starts at $12K.

    Mazda, Subaru, and Mini are proof that premium small cars still only sell in small numbers. The big sellers in compact cars are things like Civic, Corolla, Focus...not premium models.

    The Fiesta does get the DSG first, my comments regarding the fusion were looking to the future maybe 2-3 years from now.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I had no idea the Fit started as high as $14K, but the Yaris starts at $12K.

    I don't think you can get a manual window/door lock Fit.

    Mazda, Subaru, and Mini are proof that premium small cars still only sell in small numbers. The big sellers in compact cars are things like Civic, Corolla, Focus...not premium models.

    I guess you are right. I was thinking of small cars that are profitable, and you were thinking of high volume vehicles. I realize that was your intent when I reread your last post. I think at this point it would be better to make money on each one rather than sell a gazillion at a loss.

    All of this is mute unless gas gets more expensive. At less than $4/gallon, I would still rather mitigate fuel usage in other ways.

    The Fiesta does get the DSG first, my comments regarding the fusion were looking to the future maybe 2-3 years from now.

    I think the new Focus comes before the new Fusion so we will see if it gets the same one as the Fiesta. I also think there is a slightly beefier one in Europe already that Volvo uses. I wonder if that will make it on the midsizers.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think at this point it would be better to make money on each one rather than sell a gazillion at a loss.

    Exactly. When I said premium I just meant nicely equipped small cars - a Fiesta with Navigation and other amenities. People today are more likely to buy a fully optioned Fiesta for $18K rather than a stripped down Focus for $16K. Ford doesn't need to go cheap - there are other players that do that better now. Ford needs to build vehicles people want to buy at a fair price with minimal discounts. And that probably means that it won't be the volume leader in those areas - but they will make money and that's all that counts.

    I think the new Focus comes before the new Fusion so we will see if it gets the same one [DSG] as the Fiesta.

    The Fiesta gets it first with the 1.6L engine. I don't think any other versions for larger engines will be available for a couple of years, so unless they drop the 1.6L into the Focus I don't think it will see a PowerShift tranny right away.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I see what you mean now and I think you are probably correct that they will want to sell the majority of the Fiesta's in higher trim levels. I do think that they will also want to have a one, perhaps with no A/C and no power widows/locks, etc., that starts at least under $12K, though. Perhaps that will mean that they will drop the stripped Focus next time around.

    Maybe they only want to bother with a real strippo for the lowest price vehicle. Just a guess, since there is no really stripped Fusion, the base Fusion S comes standard with 16-inch alloy wheels, keyless entry, full power accessories, a trip computer, cruise control, air-conditioning, split folding rear seats, tilt/telescoping steering wheel...
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ford has realized that it can't make money on stripped down, cheap models. They can't outcheap the Koreans, Chinese, etc. There is always room for a low end model but even the low end models will be nicely equipped.

    Trying to sell the Focus as a cheap car resulted in Ford losing $3K per vehicle. If they reduce the sales volume by 50% but can make $3K per vehicle - that's a total win.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Well they do still have CAFE to worry about, although I think the structure of the new standards is changing...not sure when that is happening.
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    to see what the next Focus is going to be like. I keep an eye on the internet for any type of new press. From what I now understand the new Focus will be based on the Volvo C1 platform. At first come in 2 models a 4 door and a 2 door version. If all goes well we could see a convertible and a eco-tech turbo Focus. I know this is a Fusion/Milan forum. I own a 2006 Fusion SEL V6 and it will be paid for in about 3 months. I am holding off for the new 2010 Focus. I no longer have the need for a mid-size sedan.
  • xmechxmech Member Posts: 90
    Does anyone else find the auto-dimming rear view mirror to be lacking in the dimming department? I had a loaner SEL, '09 I think, for 2 days and now have my shiny new 2010 SE, and the mirrors seem just the same. I don't like it fading in and out. And I think with the bottom edge of the rear window so high, the lights from the cars behind me are just above that bottom edge. The sensors being under the mirror, i think are blocked from 'seeing' those lights. I've contemplated seeing if I could simply spin the mirror 180 degrees so the sensors are at the top.

    Anyone else have any solutions? Am I just sitting too low?
  • xmechxmech Member Posts: 90
    Well, I had someone ride in back ast night who lowered the center headrest and now the mirror seems to work fine.... in case anyone is interested or searches the subject in the future. :shades:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I just bought an 06 Fusion for a friend of mine. I bought it at the auction directly from Ford Motor Credit. The car had 36000 miles on it when I bought it exactly. After 2 weeks, it has 160 more miles on it. The problem is, the transmission is bad - very bad. It slips out of gear whenever it is stressed by any acceleration at all and the engine just spins. You then have to restart the car to re-boot it, and it's ok until you try to give it the gas.

    I have been to 2 different dealers in Las Vegas. Both have said the identical thing, that they would try to help me had I bought the car from them, but since I did not, there is nothing they can do. Ford is very reticent to fix out of warranty cars, even those only 100 miles out of warranty. I checked, there are TSBs out on this transmission. Ford knows they have a problem, but will not step up and help me.

    I can understand out of warranty exclusions, and if the car had even 40,000 miles, I would not squawk about it. But 100 miles over is egregious and unconscionable for a manufacture to rest on a technicality like this.

    I have bought a hundred Fords in my lifetime. I have influenced another hundred friends and family to buy and drive them, and for the most part, I have been pleased with them. I currently drive 3 Fords and have at least 9 friends who do the same due to my direct influence. Ford will lose this battle - not because I will fight them, I will not waste my time. I will fix or sell the car, one or the other. But I will hurt Ford, and I will hurt them badly. They may not notice it, but they will suffer due to this decision.

    You heard it here first. I will not buy another Ford. And I will do everything I can in my very influential circle of family of friends to see that they do not buy another Ford. I will cost them tens and tens of sales over the rest of my lifetime. Maybe hundreds of sales.

    If Ford is not interested in my business, past present or future, that is alright with me. They are the losers, and it is sad indeed. :lemon:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I bought it at the auction directly from Ford Motor Credit.

    Is that an auction that is aimed at car dealers, rather than retail purchasers?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yes it is. Where dealers get their used cars. I am a dealer.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    I once purchased a car from the Southern California Auto Auction when my brother had a lot in San Diego. Since you could only start the car and can't drive it, I paid a guy who's job is to access the condition based on what is known. Based on his opinion I purchased the car and it turned out to be a good runner for many years. I knew going in that it was buyer beware, no warranties. Now, as you stated in a later post you are a dealer. Did you purchase this vehicle without giving it the once over? If Ford Credit was the seller, was it a repo or returned using a Lemon Law. I don't know if you can actually drive the cars where you are, but was there a maintenance history, did you run it through the gears, was this possibly a known problem, (Lemon Law) or a don't ask don't tell on the part of the seller and auction? Someone had to drive the car at the auction site or did the problem arise after you took possession? One mile, 100 miles or 1000 miles, the warranty expires at 36000. Where would it stop if Ford didn't enforce warranties. How are you going to hurt Ford? Are you going to walk around with a sandwich board reading FORD SUCKS Ask Me How. I don't know how influential your circle is but tens or even hundreds of sales is a drop in the global ocean of Ford. These forums are full of people who claim they will never buy another Ford or Chevy or whatever, so what. And, if they, Ford, don't notice, how does it hurt them???? It sounds to me that your beef is with the auto auction, not Ford. If they put a vehicle with a known problem up for auction and passed it off as a good runner, that's fraud.

    2010 Fusion SEL
    2.5L FWD
    Sport Blue Metallic
    Moon & Tune
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Sorry, but I don't think a dealer buying a car at auction has reason to expect Ford or a Ford dealer to give him any special dispensations after the expiration of the warranty.

    I'd assume auctions are typically a "buyer beware" type of situation. I think it'd be a different story if you were a retail customer.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Some manufacturers have been known to do "goodwill repairs" to vehicles just out of warranty, in cases where there's a known problem (Camry sludging, Accord transmissions). But none of these would be offered without some sort of maintenance history on the individual vehicle in question.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    So Ford is supposed to rectify your goof up. You bought a car at an auction where it is buyer beware and you screwed up. Your a dealer and I'm betting this isn't the first time you have bought other peoples junk. Fix it and get on with life. Being a dealer can't you write off your screw up when you sell it at a loss?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Let's be honest - TSB or no TSB - it's entirely possible this transmission was damaged by the previous owner.

    I think nvbanker is just angry that he got burned and once he calms down he'll realize that this really isn't Ford's fault.

    Or maybe not. :blush:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Some manufacturers have been known to do "goodwill repairs" to vehicles just out of warranty...

    I think they all do that in certain circumstances. But I doubt it is ever done on a car that a dealer bought at auction.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    And let's be precise here. Ford does not repair vehicles. They're not allowed to by law. The dealer does the repair and the dealer decides whether to submit it as a warranty claim or not and whether to ask for an AWA (after warranty adjustment). It is then Ford's prerogative whether to approve it or not. Without a dealer asking for a warranty repair or AWA Ford's hands are tied anyway.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Besides, if auto companies got generous with out of warranty repairs that would reduce their sale of overpriced extended warranties. It might also encourage buyers to hold on to vehicles longer.
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    It is amazing how people react when they get burned. I cannot believe this dealer did not have the car checked out before buying it. How do you kow how the car was treated or serviced before? Previous owner could have really abused the vehicle. I now have 45,000 miles on my 06 Fusion V6 SEL and its transmission is fine. I did have it serviced at 30,000 miles. Change oil every 4,000 miles. Air filter every 10,000, on and on... I do prevenative maintanence for a living, maintenace reviews of tools/machines ect. I am a true believer in taking care of your vehicle. Cheaper to do fluid changes/filter changes than to replace a whole engine/transmission.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, now that you all completely FLAMED me, and called me everything from stupid to whining, I will complete the story.

    First of all, when you buy a car from the auction you cannot try the car out, or check the car out prior to buying it. You rely on the seller to disclose any major defects in the car. Ford Motor Credit is normally very good about this, so you can generally trust them when they sell you a car "green light" which means, the car is guaranteed to be free of major mechanical defects or frame damage. This car was sold to me "green light". This is why I felt cheated, because the car should have been sold "red light" meaning, buyer beware, you take your chances.

    It took a month - but Ford is buying the car back from me full refund. I am satisfied, even though it took a month to chase after them to live up to their guarantee. I will continue to buy Fords because they stepped up to help me. Turns out they did care, and they want my continued business. :shades:
  • blumsteinblumstein Member Posts: 38
    Ford was good to us when my wife's out-of-warranty Contour would die while driving every 3 months and came up good in their testing. I wouldn't sell it privately knowing it might kill someone so the factory bought it back at a very fair price providing we buy a new Ford or Mercury new car as a replacement. They got lots of loyalty plus they got us singing their praises.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    To be fair, you left out the "green light", "red light" part of the story. Sounds like "green light" is some type of implied warranty.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    As Paul Harvey used to say, "And Now the rest of the Story" I find it easy to get flamed on these forums but when you leave out half the story you almost invite it.
  • xmechxmech Member Posts: 90
    I looked through the manual and found nothing.

    On the 2010 Fusion, is there a way to program the interior lights so they don't automatically come on when you turn off the car? I found the one so the headlights don't come on when you use the remote to unlock the car, but not the aforementioned interior lights.

    Thx!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Not that I know of. Did you check the owner's manual?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The color of the lights was not the issue of concern, so I didn't mention it until I was universally flamed by all respondents. The issue was that Ford wasn't going to stand behind a vehicle with 36100 miles on it. In the end, they did, as they should have, regardless of how or who bought the car.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    You have always been a strong supporter of Ford, nvbanker, so I am glad to hear how this turned out. Had I been in your shoes on this deal, I would likely have felt much the way you did.

    Anytime I have ever had a problem that was "gray," Ford has stepped up to the plate including AWAs for my Lincoln LS and even for the old Taurus we used to have. They don't always have products that I want but I always felt like they treated me fairly. Of course, I have always had the dealer on my side and your situation was a bit different.

    Again, glad this worked out and congratulations for getting it done.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Cars bought at auction are almost always bought "as is". Apparently the Ford Credit auctions are different and we didn't know that.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    You do realize that (a) the Toyota Camry, Nissan Altima, Honda Accord, and Hyundai Sonata are made right here in the USA, and (b) you just replied to a post from almost a year ago. Right?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    So it is a year old. He made a good point, and I agree. Sure there are some foreign junk made here but all the profit goes back to their country to help their economy, not ours. If more people bought American when possible we wouldn't be where we are now. I go out of my way to buy American when I can like I don't have a foreign piece of clothes in my closet and my tennis shoes are New Balance which in most cases are also American. I look at the labels and get what I can.
    :shades:
  • petras2petras2 Member Posts: 104
    I agree with your post and try to buy American made whenever possible..the issue I have with the fusion is that it is made in Mexico with only 55% US parts..even the eng/tranny are foreign built..another car I am considering is the camry, built in the US with 75% US/CA. parts..buying a ford fusion may help the co. and its stockholders but I don't see how it helps our own people get decent jobs...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "I don't have a foreign piece of clothes in my closet"

    Wow...how is that even possible? I doubt I have a single clothing item with "made in USA" on the label. But then, I don't mind human beings in other countries having jobs, so I can't say that I have read all the labels.

    I even own some foreign stocks, so some of those profits of foreign companies come back to me, here in the US.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Can we please not go there (again)?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Small % of vehicle purchase goes to the manufacturer and stockholders (profit). Far more goes to suppliers, assemblers, etc. I try to buy something that benefits the US the most while still meeting my needs. The ONLY neg I have on the fusion is where its built and the content. I would still buy it but it certainly doesn't get bonus points for being "domestic" in my book.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Congrats on keeping the 2nd graders of other countries enployed. Me, I like being able to keep them in school here, but than again that takes money that you seem to send oversea's.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Take it offline. This argument is old and nobody's going to win.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    You're right, of course, it's just so hard to resist that bait, though... ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Any word on this thing? Anything other than the 2.4L?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    same to you too. :P :confuse:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Spam, spam, spam, spam...........
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    It attracts the spam-flies. :P

    Please keep the comments focused on Fusion/Milan.

    Thanks!
  • texasnightowltexasnightowl Member Posts: 31
    I test drove a Fusion last night and was very impressed in many aspects of the car. However, the auto trans on the I4 was not one of them. Now, part of that is that I am coming out of a V6/5MT car and I have never owned an automatic. However, I felt there were several places where the car was slow to re-accelerate after slowing because it didn't downshift appropriately (or at least, where I would have already down shifted). The dealer didn't have an MT version on the lot, but I'm going to check with another local dealer to see if they have one.

    Anyway, if anyone has an I4/MT could you tell me how you like it? How it compares to other MT cars you've driven? I'm shopping for my next car and the other two cars at the top of my list at the moment are VW Jetta and Mazda 3.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If you're expecting it to behave like a manual you will be sorely disappointed.

    If you want an automatic to downshift you have to give it more throttle - probably more than you're used to doing with a manual. The throttle is the only way for the tranny to figure out what to do.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,308
    the drivetrains on these cars is very tight and take a long time to break in.
    i have 18k on my fusion 6/AT.
    when i first got it, the transmission was very 'geary' sounding in the 2 lower gears and the engine sounded rough.
    eventually, i would say between 10-15k, the engine and trans both quieted down/smoothed out.
    unless i push it, the only sound i get out of the engine is a low level 'vvvvvv'.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • texasnightowltexasnightowl Member Posts: 31
    You could be right...I may not have been hitting the accelerator hard enough to tell it what I wanted. I may give it another try in the auto as it did drive perfectly fine...yeah, less power than I'm used to, but still enough. I'm cross shopping it along with Mazda 3 hatch and VW Jetta...kind of a weird group, but the cars have to appeal to me aesthetically and still have some life to them...I'm planning to drive it for 9-10 yrs like I have my current car.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I cross shopped a Mustang GT, Cougar and Lincoln LS and ended up with the LS. I didn't have any preconceived notions of what car I wanted.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Coming from a V6, you may also be used to more power at lower rpm. The difference you are noticing may be due as much to the engine as the transmission.

    I went from a 4 cyl manual (Contour) to a 4 cyl automatic ('07 Mazda6) a couple years ago. I've found the transmission's operation to be pretty acceptable. The only negatives I notice are more vibration when stopped, a bit of slush when initially starting from a stop, and early up-shifting a bit early under light acceleration. I do like that under hard acceleration my Mazda trans shifts at redline, I guess some do not do that and have revs limited to something less than redline.

    My wife has a Jetta and that is a super-smooth shifting transmission. The 2.5, 5 cyl engine also has more low end torque than my 4 cyl.
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