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Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

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Comments

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    "Yep, different levels of trim. The Mazda and Subaru will be loaded and the others will be base models if you're comparing by price."

     

    Refer to the TSX vs. Mazda6 forum for a very involved discussion on how some people "REALLY" don't care about how loaded their cars are. I'm sure there are those that feel the same way about the MS6 vs {insert car here}.

     

    By the way the TL isn't any more expensive than a similarly equipped MS6 than the same MS6 would be over a comparable TSX.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "Refer to the TSX vs. Mazda6 forum for a very involved discussion on how some people "REALLY" don't care about how loaded their cars are. I'm sure there are those that feel the same way about the MS6 vs {insert car here}."

     

    That's me, I don't care about leather or a moonroof and would actually prefer to not have them. I'd rather have 270 hp, 280 lbs-ft @ 2000 rpm, and AWD, than leather or a moonroof any day. Any day....and that's the difference between the TSX and Mazdaspeed6 at the baseprice point.

     

    *I* would MUCH rather have a Mazdaspeed6 with cloth seats and no moonroof, than a TSX with leather and a moonroof for within $1000 of the same price.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    It appears the fire at the mazda factory is going to have a bigger impact that earlier reported...I got a letter from Mazda today announcing that there will be no more Miata production for the 2005 model year, RX-8 won't start up again until end of Feb and MPV is on hold until late March....all unbuilt miata and miataSpeed orders have been deleted...other carline orders have been pushed back accordingly.

     

    The SP23 mazda3 will be limited to a small percentage of production and any unscheduled orders will spread out over March and April.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    Yikes. That is very bad news. My father's dealership is already hurting for new product. This could be quite disastrous.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    With the steel shortage and fire situation I suspect we will see a shortage of some product during the spring selling season.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    My thing is is this really going to effect Mazda? A far as the MPV is concerned I have seen 3500 dollars in factory rebates for it in the newspaper for 04 models so I don;t see any demand for that car. About the Miata no Miata's for 05? There is no big demand for the Miata right now but now no Miata's for the 05 model year? How long before Mazda releases a brand new 06 Miata? The main car in Mazda's lineup that I worry about is the Mazda 3 in terms of wether there is going to be a delay for Mazda 3's arriving on US shore. Mazda' best sellers are the 3 and 6.

     

    I have final sales numbers for the 3 and 6 as well for 04:

     

    3 sold 76K total units in 04.

     

    6 sold 72K total units in 04.

     

    Mazda sold 263K units in 2004 which was a 3% increase in sales from 258K units sold in 2003.

     

    The 76K units sold for the 3 in 2004 is off from when the Protege sold 78K and 83K units in 2001 and 2002 respectively. Finally, I don't think Mazda spent as much on incentives on the 3 as they did on the Protege back a couple years ago though.

     

    The 72K units for the 6 sold was an increase over 2003 6 sales in which the 6 sold 66K units. I think last full year 626 sales was 2001 in which the 626 sold 50K units so the 6 is doing better than the car it replaces. I wish I had 626 sales for 98, 99 and 2000. 2002 626 sales were 40K units but that was the last year for the 626 ever.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    the 1-pager in Autoweek recently on the Mazda5, which I guess is coming this year for sure. It is a very nice-looking car, good in all the right ways, but I still fail to see how a microvan fits in the U.S. That segment is a European thing, not an American one. I do wonder how its size compares to the original minivans for sale in America in the mid-80s. I bet it is not far off. Minivans have grown an awful lot over 20 years. They should make the Mazda6's 6-cyl engine available as an option in this model.

     

    And the new Miata DOES arrive soon, doesn't it? If they run short in the last model year of the old production run, that probably won't hurt all that much. It will just prime the customers for the new one when it arrives!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    let me explain why I feel this will be a problem...the stock inventory is ordered so far in advance that any hiccup is the system creates a shortage. Yes, the MPV isnt flying off the shelves but our inventory stock has been reduced accordingly....so if we sell our normal number of MPV's we will run our before they can restock our inventory....I have 18 MPV's on order that have been pushed back 3 months...but I sell 10 per month and we only stock apx 10-12 so we are turning the inventory monthly, but the new supply isnt coming on schedule...thus creating a shortage.

     

    A year ago mazda shifted the entire inventory carrying costs to dealers...the old way, Mazda corp ordered the cars and stocked them at the port and we could stock alot less cars. Replacing a sold unit only took 10 days...

     

    now there is no port inventory and all dealer orders are direct with the factory...so a japanese built car is ordered 4-5 months out...They essentially want dealers to have 4 months inventory on hand...well that dog doesnt hunt, many dealers would go broke stocking 4 months of inventory at all times...so mazda dealers are learning how to "work" the allocation system to keep less cars on hand...but if there is a problem with incomming units or a spike in sales a shortage quickly appears.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Hi Rich,

    Thanks for the excellent messages! Here are a few questions that may enlighten the rest of us.

     

    Is the Japanese plant the sole source for the Mazda3?
    Has Mazda ever planned to expand their Mazda3 production beyond?
    Isn't the Mazda6 built in the US and elsewhere?
    Would a US Mazda3 ever be possible?

    What is the rationale in choosing a certain facility? Is it more than capacity?
    Which makes one wonder how integrated the industry actually is? In other words, even though Volvo, Mazda, Jaguar are all part of the Ford family certain realities remain: a Mazda3 could not be built in a Ford plant in the case of a disaster or accident like the fire the Hiroshima plant experienced.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    good questions, let me see if I can answer them..

     

    MZ3 is only built in japan..

     

    yes, MZ3 production projections have been increased..the factory is running full shifts.

     

    MZ6 is built in US and Japan. The MZ6speed will only be built in japan, this is the only MZ6 imported to the US.

     

    I don't expect mazda to build the 3 in the US. Mazda only has one US factory. Mazda's Flat Rock plant builds the MZ6 and the Ford Mustang also. It is a huge plant that has alot of capacity, Ford needed the space to build the new mustang and it seemed like a good fit. The three new models for mazda this year will all be built in Japan.

     

    The rationale in choosing a plant is essentially economics, capacity and supply chain. One example of this is the MZ6 platform which is spawning 10 Ford and Lincoln/Mercury vehicles. This may not be possible if the platform was exclusivly built in japan.

     

    It would be almost impossible to shift production from one plant to the next without alot of planning and time. Example, Mazda shifted production of the B-series from the Edison, NJ Ford Ranger plant to the Minneapolis Ranger plant this past year and we lost 7 months of production. the B-series and Ranger are apx 99% the same vehicle...We had 6 months of warnings about this change so we were able to bulk up the inventories. With the MZ3 and the Volvo version, they only share apx 55-65% so it would be nearly impossible to shift production quickly and economically.

     

    Hope this helps.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Excellent! I always look forward to your posts.

    I hope business in 2005 is good for you.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    "A year ago mazda shifted the entire inventory carrying costs to dealers...the old way, Mazda corp ordered the cars and stocked them at the port and we could stock alot less cars. Replacing a sold unit only took 10 days..."

     

    You kinda wish you still had the old allocation system right now doesn't?

     

    "They essentially want dealers to have 4 months inventory on hand...well that dog doesnt hunt, many dealers would go broke stocking 4 months of inventory at all times...so mazda dealers are learning how to "work" the allocation system to keep less cars on hand..but if there is a problem with incomming units or a spike in sales a shortage quickly appears."

     

    I think your last sentence describes what has happened with the Mazda 3 in terms of Mazda seeing increased demand but they can;t do nothing about it because of their current allocation system right? Also another question about MZ 3 inventory. Is the 3 sedan model just in demand because I had seen some generous deals on leftover 04 hatchback models in the paper a few months ago but no really good deals for the sedan model.

     

    Finally, Another Mazda note: the 6 ousold the 3 last month again for the second straight month I think. The 6 outsold the 3 by some 1500 units. I think the 6 sold 7000 units and the 3 sold 5,418 units last month. Still 3 sales increased from 4,071 units sold in November to the 5,418 units sold in December.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I have done this several times - it is always much harder that you first think. No matter how much planning you do it seems like something will get missed - what was a small detail turns into a major problem. The result is your time line gets pushed out. That is never a good thing.

     

    But even after everything is moved and you are up and running other problems will pop up - a machine that ran for years at the old plant at 600 per minute - now will only do 450. Take this times the 50 machines that were transferred and you can start to understand how difficult it is to move a production line.

     

    I think Mazda can rebuilt the damaged plant much faster and easier then they could move / start up production of the Mazda3 at another facility.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    News from www.canadiandriver.com

     

    "Hiroshima, Japan - Mazda Motor Corporation announced today that the paint shop at its Ujina No.1 Plant (U1) that was damaged during a fire in December 2004 is to be completely restored, resuming full production with integrated painting and vehicle assembly in April 2005.

     

    Initial estimates of a 70,000 unit production loss have also been revised, with strong recovery efforts Mazda has undertaken to produce an estimated 40,000 additional units, resulting in a loss of an estimated 30,000 units due to the fire's interruption."
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    Having no idea about the kind of insurance corporations carry, I wonder if that is covered by insurance? Or if they could easily write off losses on items that actually weren't yet built or sold?
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    While many automakers have dillydallied over electric cars, fuel cells and other alternative power plants, Toyota has pushed hybrids aggressively, and has seized a strong position in the "green" market. Now it's planning to bring the price down, which can only be good news.

     

    Toyota is planning to press home its advantage in hybrid cars and ramp up production to 1 million units a year within five years, according to president Fujio Cho ... In the next 12 months, Toyota will build 300,000 hybrids, including 180,000 Prius models. A hybrid version of the Lexus RX will go on sale this year, with electric motors driving all four wheels. Toyota will also build Japanese-market hybrid minivans. "Eventually each model range will have a hybrid version," said Cho.

     

    Cho said Toyota was striving to bring the price of hybrids down through economies of scale. "It costs more than an average car because of the battery, motor, inverter and so on. But with improved design and manufacturing methods, and increased volume, we have reduced costs significantly. I can't say when a hybrid will reach parity with a conventional vehicle but it's our objective."
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    I find the new 6 five door very nice. I also like the 3 five door. I have always liked the MPV but hope it doesn't get big size wise now that the 5 is coming to America.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Mazda's in great shape. Now that cars like the Focus and Elantra GT have popularized Euro-style sporty handling, Mazda is in a great position to exploit this new demand. People looking for a handsome alternative will go with the 3, people looking to move up to a family sized version with similar handling will look into the Mazda5 and Mazda6 (or Subie Legacys...they're on the Eurosport end of the handling spectrum too).
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    for a B2300 the other day - it seems to sell stricly on pice now. It is so sad, they used to make the trucks for Ford, not the other way around!

    I would love to see Ford give them the green light to develop the next Ranger, so that the B-series could stay in the game and be more Mazda than Ford. (although it would probably have to use Ford engines). C'mon, zoom zoom company - you need a sport truck!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • russeastrusseast Member Posts: 1
    Interesting, because I was reading a news article and it said the miata was going to be produced in one factory and painted at an adjoining factory. Does anyone have current info?

    When will the '06's be introduced. Maybe by now the '06's are in production, so it's a little misleading on the '05 model year.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Miata, excuse me MX-5, sounds like the real deal - they have managed to keep it under 2500 pounds despite increasing the elbow room and adding side airbags, and now it will have 160 hp? With a new 6-speed manual designed specifically for this model? Roadster types will be in heaven.

    Funny that Mazda dedicates so much of its resources to every detail of this model, and remains fiercely committed to it, despite annual sales that have never hit 6 digits (and were down to 9500 last year). Yet Toyota, giant that it is, killed the Celica for dropping below 20K per year, and the MR2 as well.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Got the "official" word today that the MX-Crossport is a go....late 2006 arrival. The Tribute will remain in the lineup but the Crossport is expected to replace the Tribute as Mazda 3rd best seller.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Wow, that quick? At the NYIAS, it was still "gossip" stage, as I mentioned in the "MX Crossport" thread. They decide on an engine for it yet?
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    Isn't it the same platform as the next Lincoln Aviator, which in turn is based on the Mazda6/Ford Fusion/Lincoln Zephyr?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Mazda6 based platform.

    npaladin....They didnt give any other details...but I will pass them along as I get them. Once I saw the vehicle and the Aviator concept I had a feeling it was going to get approved. also...no third row seating.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I'd guess it would be the 3.0L Ford, maybe the new 3.5L version as an option..

    Surprised it doesn't have a 3rd row, even if it's just a 'token' that doesn't really hold adults.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Here is something that should stir up some debate....mazda hinted at the national dealer meeting that next years mx-cross sport (actual name not decided yet) will be powered by a 4 cyl turbo engine....no other details.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I would guess that the "standard" Mx-cross would have a V6 and maybe they'd have a Mazdasport version with the powertrain from the Mazdasport 6 (turbo 4). That would make more sense to me.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    audia8q said: mazda hinted at the national dealer meeting that ...

    At this meeting did you see any photos or hear more details (like pricing) of the 3 MPS (aka Mazdaspeed 3) to update the article from Edmunds newsite?

    HIROSHIMA, Japan — Mazda is readying a 'hot hatch' version of the Mazda3 — and we're talking jalapeño! The 3 MPS (Mazda Performance Series) uses the same 2.3-liter engine as the bigger 6 MPS, and this could make the car the hottest hatch on the market.

    The 6 MPS puts out 256 horsepower — way more than the VW Golf GTI (197 hp) or the forthcoming Opel/Vauxhall Astra VXR (237 hp). This should give the 3 MPS a 0-to-60 mph time of below 7 seconds — blistering performance.

    The 3 MPS will debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September and will go on sale shortly after. Its aggressive styling affirms Mazda is quickly shaking off its fuddy-duddy image, helped by the RX-8 and MX-5 sports cars.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    based on my fuzzy recollection, that the MS Mazda6 was going to be more like 280 hp? And when does the Mazda5 arrive? Adding the MX-Cross Sport or whatever it is called is going to make the Mazda line-up awfully confusing.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    Yeah, I agree - I thought the MS 6 had something like 270-280hp?

    I'm not sure where the Tribute (Escape clone) fits in there....seems to be redundant after the MX-Cross comes out.

    Mazda 5 - I think is due in the fall 2005 as a '06 model. Much smaller than the MX-Cross or the MPV van.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Nothing about future speed products....they are trying hard to keep stuff secret.

    MZ6speed....274hp 280ft lb torque - september/october (maybe sooner)

    MZ5...july/Aug arrival.

    cross sport (to be named later) fall 2006

    Tribute will remain in line-up when cross sport arrives... the cross sport will be very car-like and larger compared to the Tribute.

    2006 Miata fits tall people
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    some clarification: the MS Mazda3 will intentionally be down 18 hp on the MS Mazda6. The really bad part? It also will not have the AWD that the Mazda6 does (according to Autoweek). 250+ hp through the front wheels only - rings of torque steer a la Altima/Maxima V-6. Too much power for the front wheels only.

    audia8q - don't all convertibles by definition fit tall people? They have no roof! :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    Definitely doesn't make sense that the 'cross sport' would only have a turbo 4 while a V6 would be available in the smaller Tribute - I don't think that would go over very well...
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    do you think they would be better off putting in an engine with less horsepower just to say its got a V6? I personally would prefer the extra hp...I dont care if they do it with a 4cyl turbo or V12.....
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I think the MazdaSport crowd would "get it" but your typical SUV/Crossover/family people mover buyer would rather have the V6, IMO...

    For me personally, I'm not a big fan of turbo engines, I'd rather just have a normally aspirated engine...less maintenance problems.
  • fitguyfitguy Member Posts: 220
    I second that- owned 1 turbo (VW 1.8T) and they aren't, IMO, worth the extra hassle (higher maint, run premium, run hot/wear down motor oil, tubo lag). Gimme a nice, smooth, hi-tec V6 or I4 that is designed to run efficient on 87 octane. And they keep getting better every year. :)
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Without turbocharged vehicles (trains, & tractor trailers), you would not be taking delivery of the smooth, hi tec V6 or I4 automobiles that you desire.

    I wouldn't sell turbocharged vehicles short (especially if you live in high altitudes), if I were you... :shades:
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    As a former SLAAB owner, I can definitely agree that turbos are not worth the hassle. Also, fitguy, you left out one other important factor ... turbocharged cars do not fetch very high resale values because of the maintenance nightmares they present as they age. (I know from experience with TWO turbocharged cars of different makes.)

    Meade
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    It was a Mazda 626 turbo and it still ran solid with after being stolen and recovered with 144,000 miles on it. My friend just sold his Toyota MR2 turbo with 110,000 and that car was solid also. Neither of those cars were maintenance hogs.

    I wouldn't judge all turbo cars based on a few Saab and VW cars, which are high maintenance whether they have a turbo or not.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Not much extra maint here either. 1991 MR2 Turbo had 5000 mile oil changes and ran like a top at 90K when I sold it. The engine in my 1988 RX7 wasn't the weak part of THAT car. And my 150K 300ZX TT was still running at 170K last I heard.

    I'd say VW and SAAB was the biggest problem. Not the the aspiration of the engine.
  • fitguyfitguy Member Posts: 220
    Hmmm- sounds like maybe the German/Euro cars w/turbos are high maintenance and the Japanese cars are not. Yep, I'll go with that. Still rather not have a turbo at all, just in case! ;)
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I'd prefer to buy a car that runs on 87 octane gas, most turbos want 91 octane. I still say, give me a normally aspirated engine....I'll pass on the turbo.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    That seems to me like a more logical reason why you'd pass on a turbo. In some places, the difference in price between regular and premium can be significant.

    I'm not aware of any extra maintenance required for turbo vehicles, and like I said before and like gee35 also pointed out, I don't think it was the turbos that were the problems with VWs and Saabs.

    But anyway, I like turbo cars, they're fun. I love the feeling of the boost coming on and I love the sound. I had a co-worker who had a modified Eclipse and that thing was insane. It really put you in your seat and the turbo was so loud it sounded like a turbo diesel semi truck's turbo going up a mountain.

    I also remember going to the weekend races at Brainerd International and watching the Buick Grand Nationals. When those those things were in the burn out box, they let out an awesome ear piercing shriek.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    That's another point, too - For a daily driver, definitely give me the non-turbo, for economic reasons...If I could afford a 3rd or 4th car as a "toy" to drive on weekends, a turbo would be fun...

    So getting back to the topic somewhat, if I were looking at this Mazda CrossSport SUV/crossover/people mover thingy - just give me the 3.0 V6..

    If we're talking about a Miata or an RX-8, that's a different animal....
  • jsnewjerseyjsnewjersey Member Posts: 21
    My 6 Wagon died after three days and no one is in a hurry to fix it........
    Neither the dealer I purchased the car from, the Mazda dealer where it now sits for a third day not yet serviced or Mazda USA whom I emailed.I've been told to expect my car next week. If Mazda is going to compete with Nissan they need to get their customer service act together.They are off to a very bad start with me.
    I had two friends look at my car over the weekend when it was running and one was ready to buy one this week. When I told him how disinterested Mazda was in getting it fixed he crossed the 6 off. It wasn't the reliability it was the lack of service that changed his mind.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    someone in the office here today asked me about the new Mazda5. Maybe that model is going to attract more notice than I originally thought...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Like you, I'm not sure about the MZ5....but we have a 3-4 people a week asking so I feel better than the car was announced... The MZ6speed has been the real surprise...all but one of our initial allocation is spoken for. I was expecting alot of folks to "wait and see" before buying this but I was sure wrong.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    The crossover will be called the CX-7.

    http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102461
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