Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

carguy58 · September 2005

Since the 6 is getting bigger for 07 model year or 08 model year will Mazda have a coupe version of the 6 for 07 or the 08 model year. Toyota, Honda, Pontiac and Dodge have coupe versions of the Camry, Accord, G6, and Stratus. So is there any plans for a coupe version of the 6 in the near future? I mean Mazda has a nice young buyer for the 6 now. I my opinion they should retain the current 6 buyer demographic by offering a coupe in 07 or 08(whenever the next 6 is supposed to come out.)

audia8q · September 2005

No MZ6 coupe planned at this point.

autonomous · September 2005

We're so used to thinking of Honda and Toyota as bullet-proof that it takes us for a loop when we see an increase in problems not only in the first model year but beyond. It sounds like it takes them sometimes 2 or 3 years to get back to their low-problem rate. The good news is that Honda and Toyota go after defects quickly and you're covered under warranty as they fix them. Mazda has a handle on the Mazda3 problems so that it rates as a reliable car that is recommended by CR; hopefully, the 2006 Mazda6 line has improved its defect rate so that it gets CR's stamp of approval.

carguy58 · September 2005

"Mazda has a handle on the Mazda3 problems so that it rates as a reliable car that is recommended by CR; hopefully, the 2006 Mazda6 line has improved its defect rate so that it gets CR's stamp of approval."

Well don't forget the last time the Mazda 3 was rated in reliablity by CR the 3 was only on the market for 5 months. The average car for 2004 models in CR's last full survey of cars had about 3,000 miles on them. In conlusion, we didn;t get enough data if the 3 will prove to be a reliable vehicle or not. Also, there were A/c problems with the 04 Mazda's. I'm sure Mazda for 05 3's fixed that problem. The Miata which has an above average reliability record by CR and is listed in CR's good bets for used cars is built in the same plant in Japan I think that the 3 is built in I think. The Protege was also built in the same plant as the Miata. In conclusion, I think the 3 will prove to be rock soild reliable.

I also hope the plant in Flat Rock, Michigan that builds the Mazda 6 has the its issues worked out with build quality.

autonomous · September 2005

I also hope the plant in Flat Rock, Michigan that builds the Mazda 6 has the its issues worked out with build quality.

Agreed. This leads to a question that I think many of us have asked ourselves: How important is the country of production to the quality of the vehicle? The Mazda3 which is built in Hiroshima, Japan seems superior to the Mazda6 which is built in the US. Recent studies by J.D Power (link title) and others link title) show that GM has increased its quality levels substantially and become top producer in the US, although Toyota continues to be the premiere car producer in the world. Hopefully one of the other automotive giants, Ford, has woken up and heard the call. Ford needs to follow GM and start drastically improving its build quality. Or putting it differently, is the real source of problems for the Mazda6 its affiliation with Ford?

p.s. several of the top GM plants are located in ... Canada

carguy58 · September 2005

Well, the Flat Rock is good I think but I think with Flat Rock it it takes them longer to work out bugs in models than it takes Mazda's plant in Horoshima. I had a 98 626 that was built in Flat Rock. My only compaint was a water link on the passenger floor. I think a hose busted or something. However it was a real problem and it was very simple to fix. I also felt the brakes start to go but after 3 years and they weren't even ABS I think its acceptable. No problems with engine or tranny.Keep in mind the 98-02 626 was not too much of of a changeover from the 93-97 626.

As far as build quality US vs Japan built well Toyota builds most of their Camry;s in their Kentucky Plant. Toyota also builds the RAV4, Sienna, and Avalon I think in Kentucky.

I think with the 6 the fuel recall and the staining killed its reliability rating. I mean the fuel system on the 03 6 was rated average. The "average model" for 03 rated a bullseye for excellent reliability with the fuel system. Other problem area's that the 6 finshed below the averge 03 model was Paint/rust/Trim with the staining, brakes, and cooling. CR puts extra weight on the trouble sports like Cooling, Transmission, and Engine. To compare the average 03 model go to page 82(CR' April 2005 issue) and then look on Page 89 to compare the average 03 model with the Mazda 6's reliability record. The 04 Mazda 6 which like every other 04 model's reliability record had only 3,000 miles on it at the time of CR's last survey. CR listed the 04 6 as a used car to avoid because it was below average in reliability at the time of the survey. The 04 6 finished behind in reliability with the average 04 model because it had more problems with the problem spot "Electrical" and "Body Hardware" problem spot than the average 04 model did.

As far as Ford impacting the 6's probably during its first year of bodystyle mostly and maybe a little bit in its 2nd year of bosystyle. The 6 was a totally different car than the car it was replacing(the 626.). I mean the 6 probably all had different parts than the 626 did in terms of assembling it. Also the 98-02 626 had mostly an above average reliability record except for one year with the 99 model it had an average reliability rating. Even the 97 626 had an average reliability rating in CR's last issue. The 626 and 6's reliability ratings are on the same chart on Pag 89(april 2005 CR issue.) Yes the 94-97 626(4 cyl auto only)had its tranny problems and it was a Ford Tranny. The 93 626 which is the same bodystyle as the 94-97 did not have a Ford Tranny.

To go more into Fords build quality well CR rates ford okay. The last generation Ford F-150 had as good as a reliability as some Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura Products. Ford seems to have work the bugs out of the Focus. For 03 and 04 model years the Focus ranks above average in reliability by CR. The Mustang from 97-04 has an average to above average reliability record. Most people think Ford sucks but perception is not always reality. Its just when you Ford parts in certain parts of a Mazda car it messes Mazda's cars up and I don't know why that is. If you put Mazda parts in a Ford it actually ups Ford's reliability. I don't know why that is either. I should also note Ford struggles with first year build quality. The 2003 Expedition, 02 Navigator, 00 Lincoln LS, and 00 Ford Focus do not have good first year reliability records. The 01 Focus also had a below average reliability record. The Navigator has had reliability ever since the 02 redesign. Its too early to tell if the Expedition will suffer the same fate as its cousin the Navigator reliability wise.

In summary I think by year 3 of a bodystyle the Mazda Plant in Japan and Flat Rock are even keel with reliability. I think year 1 and year 2 of a bodstyle Mazda's plant in Japan is faster at working out bugs in a car. I would never buy a year 1 car(not anymore) but I would probably buy a second year built in Japan Mazda and a 3rd year built Mazda car out of the Flat Rock Plant. I think Mazda's plant in Japan is like Toyota's plants are meaning they are very quick to reducing problem rates in cars.

BTW, I have an 02 Acura CL(second year of that particular bodystyle)and it was built in Ohio. Its been great so far so mechanical problems. I've just had problems with the tires. A relative of mine has an 03 Ford Escape its been fine.

mazda6s · September 2005

So what were the "Electrical" and "Body Hardware" problems on the 04 Mazda6 that resulted in CR's below average rating?

autonomous · September 2005

what were the "Electrical" and "Body Hardware" problems on the 04 Mazda6

Here are two categories and the areas tested for problems.
Electrical = Starter, alternator, battery, horn, guages, lights, wiring, wiper motor
Body Hardware = Manual mirrors; sunroof; window, door and seat mechanisms; locks; safety belts; loose interior trim; glass defects.

In the case of the 2004 Mazda6 (see CR April 2005) the problem score was in the range of 2% to 5% which is close to perfect; perfect = less than 2% of the respondents reporting problems.

According to Consumer Reports, a car is graded against the CR average vehicle for a specific year. If the car in question receives problem reports from users that exceed the average number of problems it gets rated below average; if the category is critical or if there are several categories in which it failed, the car is rated unreliable. The problems are reported by hundreds of thousands of subscribers to CR. CR is not only important to its readers but also to the auto industry which recognizes it (along with JD Power initial quality and satisfaction surveys and others) as one of the critical assessments of their products. A few years of problems with vehicles gives the automaker a "reputation"; GM and hopefully others have learned that lesson.

sandiegoguy · September 2005

One mazda 5 unknown was how would it crash test. Bad scores could affect the cars appeal and value. Mazda has generally done well so I took the risk and purchased. A few days ago I stumbled upon a report in autointell-news.com that said the European New Car Assessment programme (NCAP) ran some crash tests and gave the vehicle 5-stars the maximum rating. Particularly interesting was the achievement of 18/18 points in side impact. I'm not sure how this will translate to performance in US tests but hope it's predictive.

mazda6s · September 2005

So, specifically, what were the "Electrical" and "Body Hardware" problems (as reported by owners) on the 04 Mazda6 that resulted in CR's below average rating?

autonomous · September 2005

So, specifically, what were the "Electrical" and "Body Hardware" problems (as reported by owners) on the 04 Mazda6 that resulted in CR's below average rating?

Are you asking for specifics like 45 reported= alternator; 22 reported =starter, etc.? If every car's problems were detailed in such a manner the April issue (the annual auto issue) would be a book. :surprise: On the other hand, I agree with you that putting this type of information on the CR website, would be useful. Would you like to suggest that to them or would you prefer that I do that? More of this detailed information could be very helpful for current owners and prospective buyers

mazda6s · September 2005

Yes, that's what I was asking. The reason is that there's a big difference between small problems, like having a light bulb fail due to improper contact in the socket, and a big problem like when the entire electrical system bugs out.

Therein lies another flaw in CR's methods. The other is that the reports are based only on those who decide to respond, and then on what the responders decide to report. For example, if a Lexus owner has a faulty fuel gauge and the dealer fixes it promptly with no fuss, and the owner gets to drive a nice new Lexus loaner while their car is being repaired, is this owner going to be more likely or less likely to report this as a "problem" when surveyed by CR? Then there's the question of how the customer's expectations affect what they choose report, or not to report, but that's a topic for a whole other discussion.

nippononly · September 2005

Automotive News is reporting that due to exhaust-caused fires, they are halting production of the Mazda5, and dealers have been enjoined from any more sales until they get to the root of the problem. Sounds rather un-Mazdalike! Doesn't bode well for first-year sales of the 5 though. :-(

PF_Flyer · September 2005

Mazda halts production, sale of 2006 crossover vehicle

Washington (AP) -- Mazda Motor Corp. said Monday it had halted the sale and production of the 2006 Mazda5 crossover because a potential heat buildup in the exhaust system could lead to a fire.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050927/BUSINESS/509270370/1003

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autonomous · September 2005

if a Lexus owner has a faulty fuel gauge and the dealer fixes it promptly with no fuss, and the owner gets to drive a nice new Lexus loaner while their car is being repaired, is this owner going to be more likely or less likely to report this as a "problem" when surveyed by CR? Then there's the question of how the customer's expectations affect what they choose report

I hear you : these are human beings, with all their foibles, reporting. Because the survey results are anonymous, perhaps the face-saving exercises are reduced. On the whole, wouldn't you agree that it is better to have the actual owners reporting than relying solely on manufacturers claims or some media person whose firm is being paid by the manufacturers?

audia8q · September 2005

and the owner gets to drive a nice new Lexus loaner while their car is being repaired

If Mazda dealers had an avg gross profit in the range of Lexus (almost$5000 per copy) We would have a fleet of Lexi for customers to drive. We would also have somebody to cut hair, do nails, give messages, serve Crystal and cocktail weenies.....Mazda would be on top of the CR charts.

mazda6s · September 2005

Do you think I could get a vanilla latte with my cocktail weenies?

mdaffron · September 2005

I think Mazda's plant in Japan is like Toyota's plants are meaning they are very quick to reducing problem rates in cars.

Crossed the big 10,000 mark yesterday. No problems to report in my 2005 Mazda3 hatch!

Meade

carguy58 · September 2005

It sounds very Mazda-like. I mean the 6 had staining problems and the 3 had A/C problems in its first year. The RX-8 had alot of problems in its first year. Mazda has always had problems with the rotary even though the Rx-8 is built in Japan. I wonder how long production will be halted and how long the period of time will the "stop sales" is on the 5 at Mazda dealers. Now you know why you shouldn't buy cars in the first year of design. Dodge did a similar when the 04 Durango first came out. They had to stop-sales on Durango's for awhile because of a problem.

carguy58 · September 2005

"Therein lies another flaw in CR's methods. The other is that the reports are based only on those who decide to respond, and then on what the responders decide to report. For example, if a Lexus owner has a faulty fuel gauge and the dealer fixes it promptly with no fuss, and the owner gets to drive a nice new Lexus loaner while their car is being repaired, is this owner going to be more likely or less likely to report this as a "problem" when surveyed by CR? Then there's the question of how the customer's expectations affect what they choose report, or not to report, but that's a topic for a whole other discussion."

No, thats not the way it works. Mazda's reliability records from 1998-2003 were right up there with Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. The Protege, 626, Millenia, and Miata were all above average for the most part during the late 90's/early 00's. As a matter those 4 cars are all listed in CR's " used car best bets lists".The MPV mini-van which is built in Japan was rated above average for 00 and 01 model years. The MPV then sipped to average reliability with the 02 model year. For 03 and 04 CR downgraded the MPV reliability to "much worse than average" because of Transmission issue's.I guess mazda slipped in a new tranny for the MPV in 03 and didn't have the bugs worked out of it. Somebody also said on these boards that there was a software problem with the MPV's tranny. If thats true thats ridiculous though. I mean if the Tranny doesn't break than they just shouldn't downgrade its reliability. That cost a manufacturer some sales if they do that. With Mazda's releases such as the 6 and RX-8 reliability slipped because of first year issues. CR's new issue comes out in what a month and a half so will get a full year report on the 6 and 3 for the 04 model year in regards to reliability.

carguy58 · September 2005

"So, specifically, what were the "Electrical" and "Body Hardware" problems (as reported by owners) on the 04 Mazda6 that resulted in CR's below average rating?"

"Are you asking for specifics like 45 reported= alternator; 22 reported =starter, etc.? If every car's problems were detailed in such a manner the April issue (the annual auto issue) would be a book. On the other hand, I agree with you that putting this type of information on the CR website, would be useful. Would you like to suggest that to them or would you prefer that I do that? More of this detailed information could be very helpful for current owners and prospective buyers"

Yes it would be helpful if CR broke down the problems with a specific "trouble spot" but they don't.

Whats interesting is for the 04 Mazda 6 it actually had more electrical problems than the 03 model when surveyed by CR. Thars interesting because 04 models only had a total of 3,000 miles on them and at the time of the survey the 04 model year was only half way over. The 03 model had an excellent reliability rating where as the 04 only had a better than average reliability mark for the trouble spot "Electrical."

jaserb · September 2005

Yes, CR downgraded the MPV due to a hard shift caused by a problem in the computer. For some reason the '02s didn't seem to have the problem like the '03s and '04s did even though they had the same 5 speed Jatco trans. There's a TSB out for it now. It's just a firmware reflash.

I think the reason CR hit it so hard is because while it wasn't a very serious problem it was quite widespread. I think it's strange that severity doesn't seem to be much of a factor.

-Jason

mazda6s · September 2005

"No, thats not the way it works. ... "

Actually, I wasn't talking about the reliability records, but the methods used to collect them.

mdaffron · October 2005

You may have read that GM's domestic sales were down 24 percent in September, and Ford wasn't far behind at a decline of just under 20 percent from the same month last year. Mazda, however, showed that it does have a good foothold in the U.S. market ...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051003/mazda_sales.html?.v=1

Meade

smaria · October 2005

A sales increase, even though Mazda couldn't sell any Mazda5s for half the month of September (because of the recall). Looking pretty good for Mazda

stickguy · October 2005

I think sales were helped by the fact that they got some 2006 3s out there. Didn't the supply of '05s run out early? At least sticks did.

PF_Flyer · October 2005

It's Tuesday, and that means it's time to discuss all things Mazda (and some non- Mazda stuff too) in our weekly chat!

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carguy58 · October 2005

My take on Mazda's latest sales increase:

The Good News:

-It was the 3rd straight month of a sales increase in terms of month to month 2005 to 2004 figures.

-Mazda 3 sales were up 45% last month from september 04 sales.

-Despite the hurricane sales were up by 1000-1100 units last month from september 2004 sales. That shows even during a time of adversity or downturn in the US Mazda can still get some sales.

The bad news:

Yes they couldn't sell 5's for a month

Mazda is getting killed in the mid-size category by Altima, Accord, Sonata, and Camry. Either that or some dealers sold out of 05 MZ 6's during the summer. Mazda only sold 4,307 6's last month.

Mazda getting passed in sales by Kia by 15,000 units.

Also one more thing:

Mazda might want to look at what Honda and Hyundai are doing in terms standard safety equipment in their cars respectively with the 2006 Sonata and 2006 Civic. I think the 2006 Sontata and 2006 Civic are getting standard Side-Impact Airbags and ABS across the board. It took Mazda 2 years to get the MZ6 standard ABS across the board where as the Honda Accord had it with the 03 redesign. You have to keep with your competition and Honda and Hyundai are 2 competitors that Mazda goes up against directly. The MZ 3 is still without standard ABS on both the "I" and "S" where as the Civic gets standard ABS all across the board. I would expect Hyundai to put Standard ABS and Standard Side Impact Airbags on the redesigned 2007 Elantra.

autonomous · October 2005

Mazda might want to look at what Honda and Hyundai are doing in terms standard safety equipment

I support safety equipment being made available on all models but not necessarily being standard. Personally, I would opt for ABS and SAB but I have heard others here complain about being saddled with ABS. Providing options allows for choice. On the other hand, providing options complicates the maufacturing and sales processes. The worst case scenario is getting a mix of options like moonroof and ABS, one being cosmetic/lifestyle oriented the other being safety oriented.

smaria · October 2005

I support safety equipment being made available on all models but not necessarily being standard.

I agree. When I was looking at the Mazda3, I wanted SAB. SAB isn't standard, but it was pretty easy to find a Mazda3 with the SAB option (and ONLY the SAB option). As long as SAB is readily available to those who want it, I think it's good for the customer to have it optional, it gives them more freedom/choice and probably helps Mazda's sales numbers.

Now, of course, if SAB/ABS is standard across the board, then the MSRP goes up and Mazda makes more profit per unit. Also, a reduction in the number of build combinations would save Mazda money. So, there are some potential plusses for Mazda if they make SAB/ABS standard across the board. But they're probably finding that a good number of their customers don't want to pay for SAB/ABS...they'd potentially lose those sales by making SAB/ABS standard.

nippononly · October 2005

you DO want to be a little careful about price. Witness the new Jetta - a very nice car (with the background "issues" all VWs have) that isn't selling because it is too expensive for this size car in the U.S. It is LOADED with stuff the Mazda has optional, minus the alloy wheels, for around a $20K sticker. So you don't want to find yourself TOO much above that price point if you are Mazda. If that means deleting standard ABS and SAB, you probably should. Or find better compromises on things to cut.

Should we be aniticipating a remodelled Mazda6 sometime soon? Seems like it has been around a while. I am sad that the RX-8 seems to be going begging for buyers now. Yes, it has been around a while too. But everywhere I look, there are screamer ads for this model as low as $22K, and the rebates are running fast and furious now.

mz6greyghost · October 2005

Should we be aniticipating a remodelled Mazda6 sometime soon?

The 6 got a very mild facelift for '06 (restyled front end, new taillights, new center console, among other things), and I've heard two different rumors for '07-'08:

1. The 6 will grow in length, width, height (and weight, unfortunately) to better compete with the larger mid-size offerings, or...

2. A new, larger model will be introduced by itself (mazda 9, possibly?) on the Ford Five Hundred platform, and the 6 will continue on, albeit SLIGHTLY larger, on the Fusion platform.

Again, it's only rumors. Nothing concrete yet...

allfiredup · October 2005

I heard the same thing about the increase in size for the next Mazda6. This was actually an interview with a Mazda exec who essentially said they missed the boat on the American mid-size market because the car is too small, doesn't ride ride soft enough, etc. Basically, it's not a bloated barge like so many of the big sellers here.

From what I gathered, they are going to create a 6 specifically for the American market. Hopefully, if they do that, they'll still offer a smaller, sportier version. It worked for Honda with the Accord and Acura TSX (the TSX is the regular Accord in Europe and many other markets).

In regard to ABS/SAB- they're now standard on all 3 s models and optional on i models. I agree that they should be optional to help keep the price down, at least on the base models. I don't understand why reviewers and some shoppers complain they're optional when they are readily available. And for those who don't want them- they save $400 or so.

It's great to see sales of the 3 rising. I'm about to add at least one more sale to that number (I'm 90% decided). Rising fuel costs should help them continue to sell well.

One question I do have- I wonder how the new Honda Civic will affect 3 sales? The Civic has been my other main consideration, but I've only been able to test drive an automatic. No dealer around me has been able to keep a manual in stock long enough for me to test drive. Based on the automatic, though, the 3 is the winner in my book. The sportier handling, 20 extra hp and great looks close the deal.

mazda6s · October 2005

allfiredup -
ABS is standard on all Mazda3 s trim levels.
SAB/SAC is only standard on the Mazda3 s Touring and Grand Touring, not the Mazda3 s "base" model.

allfiredup · October 2005

You're right. I knew that, but was typing so fast I forgot.

mdaffron · October 2005

It is LOADED with stuff the Mazda has optional, minus the alloy wheels, for around a $20K sticker.

Yeah, so the stripper Jetta is still more expensive than a loaded 3. I just went to VW's website and "built" a Jetta 2.5 and, after adding the floor mats, aero kit and wheels that came standard on my Mazda3s hatch (which cost me under $17,000), the Jetta came to $24,103. And the 2.5 isn't even the top-of-the-line Jetta -- the Mazda3s is the top-of-the-line Mazda3.

Meade

nippononly · October 2005

Yes, but if you settle for wheel covers and build a Jetta VE, you get to about $19,000 in a manual transmission, in what is to me unquestionably a nicer car, albeit with a less thrilling engine than the Mazda (but it certainly moves out enough around town to be comparable to a Mazda3 in that regard).

Now me, I have to have a moonroof and alloys, which is just one of the reasons you won't find me in a Jetta any time soon (would be close to $24,000 sticker, as you suggested), but lots of people don't mind going without moonroof and alloys, especially in the compact class.

mdaffron · October 2005

Otayyyy ... and people around here tend to forget that the Mazda3s is not the entry-level Mazda3 model either. You can go with a Mazda3i, which has an engine more on-par with the Jetta VE, a few fewer standard features (like wheel coveres instead of alloys) and a manual tranny, and still be out the door for about four grand less than the Jetta VE.

Meade

carguy58 · October 2005

"I heard the same thing about the increase in size for the next Mazda6. This was actually an interview with a Mazda exec who essentially said they missed the boat on the American mid-size market because the car is too small, doesn't ride ride soft enough, etc. Basically, it's not a bloated barge like so many of the big sellers here."

They better be careful about how much they soften that suspension up. They tried to build a soft riding car with the 98 626 and it flopped. They did make changes to the suspension with the 2000 626 mid-cycle refresh but by then it was too late too repair the damage of the first couple couple years the last generation 626 had with the soft suspension. Even consumer Reports didn;t like the 98 626 as much as the 93-97 626. CR did however like the changes Mazda made for 2000 with the 626.

"From what I gathered, they are going to create a 6 specifically for the American market. Hopefully, if they do that, they'll still offer a smaller, sportier version. It worked for Honda with the Accord and Acura TSX (the TSX is the regular Accord in Europe and many other markets). "

No I don;t think Mazda will make a smaller car to slot in between the 08 6 and the Mazda 3. That would be like Ford did in the mid 90's when they slotted the Contour in between the Tarus and Escort and the Contour flopped.The same thing would happen in my opinon if Mazda slotted a 4 door sedan in between the 6 and 3. Their best thing to do would be to bring the MX-6 name back and make a 6 coupe sort of like Honda makes an Accord Coupe but to do this Mazda would have to differentiate the 6 and a coupe model of the 6 in terms of styling and the coupe model 6 having a slightly sportier ride than the sedan version of the 6.

"In regard to ABS/SAB- they're now standard on all 3 s models and optional on i models. I agree that they should be optional to help keep the price down, at least on the base models. I don't understand why reviewers and some shoppers complain they're optional when they are readily available. And for those who don't want them- they save $400 or so."

Basically with the ABS Honda has made it standard on all their models. Anytime Honda does something the rest of the Japanese makes have to follow like it or not. Toyota was forced to make ABS standard on their whole entire Camry line for the 04 model year I think because Honda made ABS standard on all their entire Accord line. Like I said before Mazda was also forced to make ABS standard on their whole entire MZ6 line for the 05 model year. Its good to see Mazda making ABs standard on the "S" model trim of the 3 in order to keep up with the well equipped 2006 Civic. Finally, I wonder if the 2006 Toyota Corolla will have standard ABS on any of their trim levels(CE, LE, S, XRS.) BTW, I wonder how much the price increase is for the 06 3s models considering they are coming standard with SAB and ABS.

carguy58 · October 2005

Well its good to see Mazda make ABS standard on the 3s models even though they are not making SAB standard on the 3s model.

joel5000 · October 2005

I have no problem with ABS/SAB remaining optional on the Mazda 3i, but it would be nice if dealers actually stocked it. I'm purchasing a 3i Touring because I cant find a standard 3i with the side airbag option. I don't mind getting all the power equipment and alloys with the Touring, but I would have preferred the lower sticker with a standard 3i. The side airbags are a must-have item for me. However I am still getting the 3i touring for about $1000 less than a Civic LX.

stickguy · October 2005

It's called the Fusion.

Would you like to supersize that order???

Seriously, Ford took the platform, kept the good stuff (hadnling/dynamics/steering feel, and just made it a bit roomier, and quieter I think. basically kept the Zoom Zoom in a package that better competes with the CamCOrd in size and comfort.

Any bigger than the fusion, and it will have to be a whole new big car IMO. Maybe a new 929 off the 500 platform?

Hey, Mazda used to have 3 distinct platforms/sizes (929/626/323), why not do it again? They can either upsize the 6 and slot in a new car below the 2, or pull a Honda and upscale the 3 (4?) to make them fit. COuld also keep the 6 and add a whole nother unit up top, but I agree that it wouldn't like sell too well. Mazda peopple would either go for the 3 or the 9, not the 6.

mazda6s · October 2005

I'll bet they also softened up the suspension for the Fusion.

stickguy · October 2005

not noticably softer. It still has very nice hadniling, and a good ride.

carguy58 · October 2005

"I'll bet they also softened up the suspension for the Fusion."

I bet they did too. If they didn;t soften up the suspension though Ford does a good job of taking the best from their other car companies that they have an interest in(Mazda and Volvo) and using them in their own products. Case in point: the 500 having Volvo underpinnings and the Fusion having the MZ 6's underpinnings.

carguy58 · October 2005

not noticably softer. It still has very nice hadniling, and a good ride."

Did you test drive the Fusion at a Ford dealership?

carguy58 · October 2005

"It's called the Fusion."

"Would you like to supersize that order???"

"Seriously, Ford took the platform, kept the good stuff (hadnling/dynamics/steering feel, and just made it a bit roomier, and quieter I think. basically kept the Zoom Zoom in a package that better competes with the CamCOrd in size and comfort."

Yes and no I agree with you. Maybe Ford did take the 6 platform for the Fusion to better compete with Honda and Toyota but at the same time when Mazda comes out with a new 6 the Fusion will be based on older technonlogy since the 6 will get redesigned for 08. Ford has to wait till 2011 to release a new Fusion so be time they release a new Fusion the so the current 6 platform will be aged be time a new Fusion comes out. I wonder if the 08 6 gets its own platform from Mazda or shares one with Ford.

"Any bigger than the fusion, and it will have to be a whole new big car IMO. Maybe a new 929 off the 500 platform?"

I don't see your any car bigger than than the Fusion that it has to be a next generation 929 theory. The Altima and Camry are still roomier than the current the 6 and the 6 still has growing up to do in terms of interior room. With that said though the current 6 does have a good amount of interior but not up to Camry, Altima, Sonata, and Accord Standards.

"Hey, Mazda used to have 3 distinct platforms/sizes (929/626/323), why not do it again? They can either upsize the 6 and slot in a new car below the 2, or pull a Honda and upscale the 3 (4?) to make them fit. COuld also keep the 6 and add a whole nother unit up top, but I agree that it wouldn't like sell too well. Mazda peopple would either go for the 3 or the 9, not the 6."

Yes they are going to upsize the 6. A Mazda exec said that last year in a Wall Street Journal article that they need model that fit the North America or American tastes more. The 2 is a sub-compact car or an entry level car isn;t it? I know Mazda has a challenger to the Honda Fit and Scion TC in the works in terms of an entry level car but I forgot if the 2 is a Aztek or Element type of vehicle or if the 2 is a supcompact. I hope with Mazda's styling DNA it will look a whole lot better than the Aztek and Element came out. I lost my magazine with all the future models in it. I think I threw it out. The photo I saw in the mgazine did look like a Scion XB, Aztek, or Element type vehicle.

"Mazda peopple would either go for the 3 or the 9, not the 6."

Why would they buy the 9 considering a 9 would be esentially a replacement for the 929 and Millenia that failed before? An entry level luxury car Mazda is not ready for in my opinion. One they can establish the 6(which they haven;t yet) as a Camry, Accord, and Altima fighter they would be ready to put out a 9 in my opinion. The 9 would be a Hyundai Azzera(now XG350), Avalon, and Maxima fighter.

I don't mean to be hostile with this post I;m just replying.

allfiredup · October 2005

The Mazda2 has been rated well in the European auto press. It's a good looking 5-door that slots in below the Mazda3. With Honda introducting the Fit, Nissan's upcoming sub-Sentra model, Chevy Aveo and others like them, it would make a lot of sense.

Another idea, would be to bring the excellent 2.0 common rail diesel that they sell in other markets. It makes 134hp and 228lb-ft of torque, strong numbers. It would make a great addition to the 3, 5 and 6 models. It would be an amazing opportunity for them to be the only Japanese automaker to offer a diesel. Alternative fuel vehicles are hot and most analysts think they will continue to be. I know I'd buy a 3 diesel...then again, I'm about to buy a 3 anyway.

z71bill · October 2005

Diesels have many advantages - but before you buy one you should go to the "gas" station and fill up a few vehicles with diesel.

It is impossible to not get some on your hands (many diesel drives carry gloves) - go look at the ground next to the diesel pump - it will look like an oil spill - because diesel does not evaporate as fast as gas - so you will also get it on the bottom of your shoes - it smells real bad. Once you get it on your hands & feet it finds its way to the inside of your vehicle - and then on your clothes - you will be in a meeting (at work) & someone will say - whats that horrible smell?

I know several people who have diesel vehicles - they love them - would never have anything else - but know the down side before you buy one.

Also - don't forget that a diesel will cost THOUSANDS of dollars more to buy - and it is also (normally) heavier that a gas engine. Most 3/4 - 1 ton or larger truck owners don't care that much about an extra 300 pounds - but an extra 150 pounds in the engine bay of a Mazda3 would have a very negative impact on handling.

Diesel is $3.50 a gallon in Houston - reg gas $2.74 - but even if I assume they will cost the same $3.00 a gallon how much will you save?

100,000 miles at 40 MPG (diesel) = $7,500
100,000 miles at 30 MPG (gas) = $10,000

So you save $2,500 in fuel - and just about break even on total cost.

If you ever have an engine problem out of warranty get ready to pay extreme amounts of cash to get it fixed.

If I was buying a heavy duty truck to pull a large RV SEVERAL TIMES A YEAR - I would look at a diesel - but for a small car I will take gas every time - and I don't care one bit what they do over in Europe.

mazda6s · October 2005

And let's not forget about the exhaust. Sure, I know about the myth of the clean-burning diesel engine. As an asthma sufferer who bikes 10 miles a day I always laugh when I hear "they're getting cleaner". Yeah, right.

Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

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