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Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?
Mazda has made alot of profits in Europe of late but in the US is facing declining popularity. Sales have been down for the past year and a half since an upswing spanning 1998-2001 with vehicles sold around 240,000-260,000 around that time. Remember this is a car company that sold 345,000-370,000 cars in the US between the years 1990-1994. With that said should Mazda just banned the US market and focus their efforts on the European Market or does it have a long lasting future in the US? Opinions please:
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I think Mazda is regaining the respect among the public and with strong products (Pro, Trib, 6, RX8) I think there future looks pretty bright.
I'm rooting for them! Bring it on!
People should just be glad that there's still a car company in NA that makes well-built, inexpensive vehicles that are fun to drive!
go buy Mazda! NOW!
Based on those plans, I'd say that Mazda does have a future in this country.
-Andrew L
As for the Altima the car came out out almost a year and a half before the 6 did. 6 sales have been up every month since its debut but Mazda expected alot more sales for the 6 than this.
I think it would be more profitable for Mazda just to sell cars in Europe. In the US Mazda was such a promising company in the late 80's/early 90's and than the 94 626 with the Ford Tranny killed their name they worked so hard for. After 1995 all their loyal buyers went to other brands. Mazda still hasn't gained those customers back in a decade. Its hard to believe the year of the Ford Tranny was their best selling year(94) and then everything just went downhill. In fact Mazda went 3 years(1995)without making a profit in a month until 1998.
M
In contrast, the 6 feels tiny inside. It's cramped for me up front, and the back seat is practically non-existent. I actually fit better in a Dodge Neon! Now the 6 makes a good niche product, as a small sport sedan, but it's just not big enough to cut it in the bread-and-butter family car market.
Also, in person, I didn't find the 6 interior to be all that impressive. I can't remember if it had any major fit/finish concerns, but there was enough cheap plastic inside to remind you that this ain't no premium car!
Trivia: Mazda was the brand name of the most popular light bulb in the early 20th Century.
As far as the 6 is concermed its like a front wheel drive 3 Series. I don't expect it to be big inside like the Altima.
I do think Hyundai has taken a bite out of Mazda sales. Toyota and Honda: thats a little different buyer than the Mazda buyer.
Everybody says how the 323, 626, and 929 model line was lacklauster but Mazda their best selling years with that model line. In 1995 when they switched to the Protege, 626, and Millenia line is when sales took a big hit. The Millenia didn't sell well as Mazda thought it would so thats why it died.
Regarding the 6 versus Altima sales, THe 6 is far more handsome than the Nissan, although interior-wise, neither are impressive, but the seats in the Mazda are better IMO, and the dash layout and ergonomics aren't as cheap in the 6. The Altima V6 is a bit quicker, but I would put the Mazda under the category of Japanese BMW before the Nissan for overall driving excitment.
I've heard that too, that if you got a Probe with a V-6 and a manual, you could get years of troublefree service, but throw a 4-cyl and/or an automatic tranny into the mix, and suddenly you got one of the most expensive-to-maintain Ford badged cars there was at the time! At least, I knew a guy with a '94 Probe, and that's what the Ford dealer told him when he had to have it in for service. Its tranny went out once under warranty, with about 30-35K on it, and #2 went out when the car had about 85K on it.
The Ford Escort, from 1991 on, and the Tracer, as long as there has been one, were also based on Mazda designs...the 323/Protege.
I think even to this day, the Focus and Protege share some underpinnings, such as suspension components and perhaps some structural metal.
It's kind of an ironic twist, considering that Mazda and Isuzu used to build Ford and GM's small trucks!
They still have credibility to be that sports car excitement company, but I wish they would do two things:
(1) put rotaries in a lot more of their products. There just is no engine quite as exciting to drive as one of those puppies when it winds itself out. It could certainly go in Miata, the RX-7 I hope they will produce again, and even a sport compact based on Protege (now to be called the '3').
(2) get rid of every product that is just a rebadged Ford. That would currently include the B-series trucks and the Tribute (any others I am missing?). And then never introduce another one. I believe the new '3' will be all Mazda, right?, with Ford then borrowing it for the new Focus or something? That is not so great either, but at least it is Mazda-developed, and they can't stop Ford from poaching since they are the owners!
I think it is a good idea for Mazda to have a sporty mini-ute, which the Tribute is. But it should be an independent effort. If this is not possible due to cost constraints, I am not so sure they would not be better off without it. And it has been more than a decade since Mazda built or designed its own pick-ups. Maybe it is time to just give that niche truck a rest permanently.
BTW, count me in the crowd that thinks Altima looks better than the '6'. But beyond looks which are so subjective, the midsize sedan is a fiercely competitive segment, especially right now when so many of the offerings are fast and sporty. Call me crazy, but I think the best way for Mazda to distinguish itself in that segment would be to offer rotary-powered cars...they would just have to be sure to differentiate it sufficiently from the RX8.
I really hope the RX8 sells well. Mazda deserves real credit for that one.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Routine maintenance on them is critical, too. If you don't keep up on oil and coolant changes, they can deteriorate very quickly. Stuff you should do anyway, with any engine, but with rotaries it's more critical. I'm guessing because they rev faster, so they're more strained?
So basically, we have a high-maintenance engine that's expensive when it breaks, and guzzles and pollutes as much as a V-8 more than 4 times its size. Sounds like it would end up on the short list for most bean-counter managers. Sounds like a miracle that it ever got out of the experimental stages!
They have changed the apex seals on the rotors to be much more durable and long-lasting.
They have changed the location of the exhaust ports so they run a lot less dirty smog-wise.
And the new engine produces the same power as the old twin-turbo, only it is normally aspirated.
PLUS it gets better mileage than the 17/25 of old.
And they don't rev faster than Honda's i-VTECs...both have a 9000 rpm redline. Think S2000!
Subaru has regained major market share by being the Japanese "AWD company". It seems to me Mazda could become the "rotary company" along with the usual dose of that zoom-zoom PR. Rotaries lend themselves to lightweight applications due to their low torque, so they couldn't put one in the minivan for instance. But they could have rotaries in all their cars...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We will have to wait to see if their statement regarding bump in fuel efficiency is true, however. Since the car will be on the road soon, the official EPA numbers should be available any day now....
The old non-turbo RX7s ran on regular gas, so one would hope the new ones will too. However, I will bet since it is important to obtain maximum horsepower figutres for this type of car, they will recommend premium.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
and 20/30 is the targeted gas mileage Mazda has listed on their website.
the advancement in material and oil injection technology has allowed the exhaust port to be relocated to the side housing instead of on the peripheral. This change dramatically reduces emission, allows more complete combustion, thus resulting in more power, all without forced induction :-)
it's not like Mazda just put the rotary on the shelf when they stopped selling it in the US in 1996... A lot of development has taken place during that time...
For a 'global car' that is to be sold all over the world, Mazda6 simply can't have the 'All-American' size and proportion. It has to be more compact to fit the narrower and smaller roads of Europe and Japan and Southeast Asia.
The 6 is 70.1 inches wide, compared to 70.4 inches for the Altima. In the real world, that's practically imperceptible. The Altima is about 5 inches longer though, 191.5" versus 185.8", and the wheelbase is longer by about the same amount...110.2" versus 105.3". So basically, both cars have about the same amount of overhang, it's just that the Altima has more between the wheel centers.
Turning circles? The Altima's is 37.4 feet, while the 6 is actually larger, at 38.7 feet. You'd think that a shorter wheelbase would allow the 6 to make a tighter U-turn, but that's not the case here.
Weight? The Altima 2.5S manual is listed at 3039 lb, while the smaller Mazda 6 4-cyl manual is a slightly chunkier 3042 lb.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, necessarily, that the 6 is smaller than the Altima, Accord, Camry, and competing cars. But because it is, it's not going to have the wide appeal of those other cars, either. Now if Mazda can find enough buyers that will go for the 6, more power to 'em. It's never going to take on the big boys though, unless it grows up.
Its impossible for Mazda to develop all their products independently because they don't have money to do that. This is a company that almost went defunct in 1996 and has been in and out of the red since 1998.
As for the 6 growing I don't think its has to. The 3 Series is smaller than a Maxima, TL, and Es 300 and still sells really well so I don't think size is a problem with the 6. Mazda just needs to get their name out there more.
As for the Altima and 6 comparison in styling the 6 will date better than the Altima I think. The Altima is nice looking but the 6 just looks better to me.
As for the 3 Ford will give Volvo and Mazda seperate platforms so it it will be based on a Ford Focus Platform. The bright spot is it will be made in Japan so all the kinks should be worked out in a small period of time. Some parts wil be from Ford based on what somebody said on another board on this site so I'm kind of worried about that though. Platform sharing doesn't bother me though. Its kind of sad to see the Protege name go because Mazda is best known for the Protege now. The 3 will have to build its repulation up. I hope Mazda keeps the names 3 and 6 for a long time rather than renaming their cars every decade. That leads to confusion among non-automobile enthusiasts(mostly the buying public.)
It's just not a suitable car for me because I can't fit comfortably in it! Oh well, blame my mother...she should've married a shorter guy!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm sure there will be a lot of folks it odesn't matter to, but with the numbers Mazda has now they need to aim at a larger audience.
Sporty is definitely the image they want to project. Losing rebadged Ford parts will help.
Isn't every Japanese brand but Toyota and Honda largely owned by one of the USA Big 3?
How anyone would let a Ford part - particularly a powertrain part - in a Mazda is beyond me.
I have had a number of people say, and I pretty well agree, that Fords aredesigned pretty nicely but have bad powertrains. The sad part is that this really means that Ford builds nice cars as long as you don't actually drive them.....
If low price is a concern, get a Kia,Hyundai, or Daewoo.
If reliability and durability are main concern, get the Toyota...and if you don't like Toyota, buy a Honda.
About Japanese Brands being owned by the Big 3: Mitsu basically put themself in that hole with terrible build quality in the mid to late 90's.
Mazda on the other hand had the Ford tranny incident which had a part in putting them into bankruptcy. Also the 95 Protege and 95 Millenia were not recieved well by the buying public at the time. So its some of Ford's fault and Mazda's fault what happened to Mazda in the 1994-1996 period that put them into bankruptcy.
Nissan is owned by Renault which is a french company so Nissan is not owned one by of the Domestic Big 3 competitors.
Subaru is owned by GM and GM also owns Isuzu.
Does GM have part ownership in any quality foreign brand? To improve its image, GM recently acquired that coveted Daewoo brand.
I am disappointed that Toyota will let GM re-badge a Toyota to sell as a GM vehicle (Pontiac Vibe and formerly Chevrolet Prizm and Nova). Honda was very unwise to badge an Isuzu as a Honda Passport.
Protege, 6, MPV, Miata: As reliable as their Toyota and Honda counterparts.
What Mazdas generally offer that T+H don't is driving fun, something that unlike 0-60 #s can't be measured, but only experienced.
Dinu
Toyota works jointly with GM from time to time because it makes them good money oftentimes. Notice that they never sell a GM product as a Toyota, but merely allow GM to sell a Toyota with a GM badge.
Mazda's only products with crappy reliability in the last decade have been the ones that parts-share with Ford. All the rest have been above average. This is why Ford intrusion in Mazda products must end for Mazda to improve its rep in America. The '6' is far too new to know how reliable it will ultimately be, but thank goodness Ford intrusion for that model is at a minimum.
Funny fact: C&D just did a big Ford retrospective for its 100th anniversary, running through all the significant models over the years and giving little descriptions of what was significant about each along with a picture. So you get to 1990, and turn the page...........and lo and behold! The 1990 Miata was Ford's big accomplishment that year! Thought that was funny.
Ford already owned part as far back as that, IIRC, and bought the rest later in the 90s. This is why Mazda "let" Ford put in its own powertrain parts - it had no choice, as by then Ford was calling all the shots money-wise.
Ford still does today, but now that Mazda has found its feet again, Ford would be wise to lighten up a little on the reins.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
GM owns a piece of Subaru. Fortunately they have chosen not to screw it up like they have their domestic cars - give them time... you never know.
The Vibe is not exactly a rebadged Toyota - it's a joint project beteen the two companies. I honestly don't see what's in it for Toyota to be doing joint projects with GM.
On throwing out the Tribute ratings - you can't quite do that. It's part of the line. I'm sure Honda would have loved to throw out the old Passports ratings. Being rebadged Isuzu Rodeos they weren't terribly good. Probably Honda's biggest misstep in the American market, but tehy were desperate for an SUV.
GM owns Saab - now there's a fun one for you. They want to start selling the Subaru WRX as a Saab 9-2 and charge more money. That should be amusing.
In my book, Mazda brings a lot to the table. I think they have suffered from some very bad marketing mistakes such as the Tototazation of the old 626 (in its day a great car!). The Ford ownership hasn't helped but they still have a solid base to build off of.
Note that the car is entirely mechanically a Toyota corolla (or celica in the case of XRS/GT). The only GM input came in design, interior and exterior, which was done jointly by both companies.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Toyota's success formula seems to be based more on reliability and durability than fad styling that is soon obsolete.
Many people think Toyota and Chrysler represent the two extremes: Toyota #1 for Reliability and Chrysler #1 for styling.
Based on the sales trends for each brand, which is more important: Styling or Long Term Reliability?
as for Toyota styling thats a whole other ball game. Toyota needs younger stylists.
As far styling and reliability I think the top car company that does both is Mazda and Nissan/Infinti. Chrysler has gotten better with the reliability side of things in the past 5 years. VW's are stylish but build quality with the exception of the Passat is not very good. I thought Honda made some good looking cars in the early to mid 90's: 90 Integra, 92 Prelude, 92 Civic, 91 Legend. Honda has slipped a little in the styling deprtment since then.
I can't really take words from someone like that seriously....
Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, etc. try to ride the coat tails of Toyota and Honda superiority but the American buyers are smart and do not believe it. Buyers who have had bad experience with US brand vehicles do NOT want a Japanese brand that has a US brand engine or transmission included.
Toyota has earned the reputation for long term reliability and durability. Toyota has NOT put Ford, GM, or Chrysler engines or transmissions in their vehicles to lower the reliability. Toyota is not partially owned by Ford, GM, or Chrysler.
Protege vs Corolla
6 vs Camry
MPV vs Sienna
Let's discuss your impressions (fun to drive, styling, etc) and facts (reliabilityl, steering feel, cornering, slalom, etc) in a civil manner.
Dinu