Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

1212224262766

Comments

  • bballabballa Posts: 56
    Iwantonetoo, I don't think cutemorganite is a he. Sorry, just had to point that out. (lol)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,893
    Welcome to the Mazda Mania Weekly Chat!

    Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
    The chat room opens 15 minutes before the scheduled chat time, so come early and get a good seat! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!

    Mazda Mania Chat Room

    PF Flyer
    Host
    Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Yes, I am a female, and yes my appointment was at the Mazda dealer. I was just upset, because if I had known they only had three techs on a Saturday, I would have just went on Monday. The chic insisted that I could come Saturday, so I went for it. I could have gone to Firestone and gotten an oil change within an hour for $11.99. Thanks for everyone's comments anyway.
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    Well Honda and Toyota's customer service satisfaction scores are right down there with Mazda. I know Honda has tried to get better with that and I saw in an article about how Toyota wants treat its customer's better. Mazda has hot products and they are penetrating the market really well. Next thing Mazda needs to do is improve this customer service issue. The Domestic's have way better satisfaction scores when it comes down to customer service than the Japanese do.

    BTW, I took a trip down to Virgina this weekend from Jersey. I saw a lot of Mazda 3's. Mazda 6 is doing well but not as well as the 3.

    BTW, avoid to going to the dealer on Sturady's if you can. Thats the kiss of death right there. The dealer I leased a 1998 626 a few years ago from extended their customer service hours ayear ago during the week which is a convienent thing to do.
  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    You have your good and bad dealerships, whether it's Toyota, Honda or Mazda. In Indianapolis, the service department at the Honda dealership that I bought my S2000 couldn't be much better. Very professional (such as returning phone calls quickly). The Mazda service department was good as well. However, I did have trouble with the sales staff at Honda, but I just went above them to the GM and got the car at the price I wanted. I don't think there is a dealership out there that relieves you from having your guard up while looking. However, some are just better about letting you lower it a little.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    I guess sales are now speaking for themselves, in telling "Mazda's future", eh?! :-)

    I think Mazda's future in general is well assured now that Ford has basically given it the role of mechanical designer for all the small and midsize cars under the Ford and Volvo banners (not to mention Mazda's own).

    Just be careful not to alienate the Mazda faithful with the next Miata, people! Oh, excuse me, MX-5.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,432
    what volvo cars is mazda the mechanical designer of? I haven't heard of any.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    ..Mazda has been tasked with designing all the future, smaller engines for Ford/Mazda/Volvo, but other than sharing common platforms, I don't know of anything further than that.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,432
    I'd be surprised. That would mean doing away with their 5-cylinder configuration. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but it would certainly hurt to have to give up what has become something of a trademark.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    envisioned under Ford, Volvo gets to be in charge of safety, Mazda gets to be in charge of mechanicals, and Ford gets to be in charge of platform design, for all the small and medium cars under all three brands. Seems like Ford has decided that of the three, Mazda can achieve the best balance of powertrain durability and reliability at a given price point. Ford, OTOH, will be in charge of cost-cutting and streamlining! I don't really understand what Volvo will be in charge of in this new Ford world.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    of TRUCKS!!!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    Ford has always been in charge of trucks for the Ford and Mazda brands. The $64,000 question is, what will become of the next-gen XC90? Will it turn into a rebadged Freestyle? But that is a question for a different thread.

    Mazda being in charge of the mechanicals for Proteges and Escorts from 1990 on served both companies very well.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    and their long term report on the RX-8 it doesn't look like there is a big future for the rotary. Fuel consumption is still a problem as is oil consumption. Autoweek liked the car but the problems are not corrected from the old RX and we all have read how Mazda had to beg ford to allow them to bring the Rx back. Mazda has to pray that if they decide to pack a rotary in the Miata, as some people have suggested they might, that they find a way to fix fluid consumption both inside and outside of the combustion chamber.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "that they find a way to fix fluid consumption both inside and outside of the combustion chamber."

    What fluid is consumed outside of the combustion chamber? Oil and gas would be consumed inside of the combustion chamber. Does the RX8 use up a lot of windshield washer fluid too?
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    Hopefully the oil isn't being burnt on purpose? oil is supposed to lubricate outside the combustion chamber. Unless it is a diesel and then some oil is expected to burn within the diesel fuel. If the oil is burning and not being lost to leakage or pressure blow by the problem is even more serious. Several cars today seem to have some kind of non combustion oil loss. Saturns come to mind as well as some Hyundais. But if the RX is burning oil the problem is not a mystery as Autoweek indicates. The mystery is solved by pulling a plug. It will also require plugs far more often. If it is blow by it never enters the combustion chamber but is pushed out from escaped pressure after the valves or seals. A rotary has the potential to seal quite well enough to keep oil out during intake but not well enough to prevent some hot gasses from escaping after combustion.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "Several cars today seem to have some kind of non combustion oil loss...

    ...If it is blow by it never enters the combustion chamber but is pushed out from escaped pressure after the valves or seals."

    I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

    What kind of fluid "consumption" would occur outside of the combustion chamber? If the engine is low on oil, oil either leaks or is consumed (burned in the combustion chamber). It doesn't just disappear.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    lubricates the apex seals in the Mazda rotary, and as the seals wear, the oil consumption can become excessive. And it is more than one might expect in a non-rotary engine even when new. Autoweek went through several quarts, right? When I had my RX-7, I kept a case of oil in the back.

    The gas mileage they are getting is truly dismal, more of a standout than the oil consumption. They are at 15.9 in mixed driving, with individual tanks falling as low as 13. That is awful by my standards, and is 20% less than their long-term 350Z managed. (which has a lot more torque and more power too). But they mention there is nothing like a rotary for fun driving, and I agree. The way it winds out is unlike anything else. As long as you have got the money for gas and a good oil connection! :-P

    so, yes, boaz, a small amount of oil IS being burnt on purpose. And it doesn't have valves, does it?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    not valves like we see on a traditional engine I agree. The theory is more like what you get from a two stroke. Not the same I know but it seems that it is a flaw in the design that they have not solved, along with fuel consumption in excess of engines of similar size. Oil loss outside of the combustion chamber is caused when pressure passes through the valves, or in the case of a rotary the seals to the lubricated parts of the engine. In the case of a non rotary the oil in the valve cover can be forced passed the PCV valve or the breather. If you look at the breather hose on many new cars you will notice more oil build up that on most of the other hoses. This is only conjecture on my part but if a car is burning a quart of oil between changes and the plugs are not getting fouled the oil isn't being burnt in the combustion chamber. If it were the plugs would foul. So there would have to be blow by. In the Rotary the seals can be worn enough to allow blow by and still good enough not to allow oil to be sucked into the combustion chamber. If as Autoweek says they were adding more than a Quart between oil changes, sometime a lot more than a quart, then the oil must not be being burned because they didn't indicate the car was a smoker or that performance suffered much.

    Whatever the cause the oil consumption and fuel mileage shows the new rotary has not solved the problem that was one of the major drawbacks of the old rotary. I still like the concept because of the decreased weight. But I hardly believe people want to carry sever quarts of oil in their cars to add evey few gas fill ups do you? If that problem is not solved Ford may require Mazda to pull the rotary, again. Or do you consider the results reported by Autoweek acceptable? My opinion is that it is not.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    oil consumption is normal in rotary engine, as it is INJECTED INTO the combustion chamber to provide lubrication and seal. as such, it is burned with the air/fuel mixture during combustion. i really don't see a problem with this as long as people are educated in why it does what it does.

    as for fuel consumption, well, the latest ECU reflash for the RX-8 seems to be improving the gas mileage across the board (both highway and local driving), so the engine is a major improvement over the previous rotary engines, it's just that Mazda engineers are still working out the kinks in the software/electronics to maximize its potential.

    regardless of these 2 'issues' (i call them quirks to an unique engine), Autoweek does praise the RX-8 in its fun-to-drive quotient and all the intangibles that make a car great. Overall that long term update is a positive one :-)
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    But then if burning oil is normal in a Rotary one has to wonder why Autoweek bothered to complain? Also one must ask how that effects emmisions? I used to ride a two stroke street bike. I believe the 500 Kawasaki, the 750 Kawasaki and the owc30 Yamaha race bikes were way ahead of their time. But they used oil in the combustion chamber and that made them a minus on the street. In fact two strokes are better for power to weight but use fuel like a rotary as well. For that reason they are being phased out of water craft on most any lake in our state. So if rotary engines inject oil into the combustion chamber aren't they by definition, Dirty engines?

    No one can say the RX isn't a fun car. A Cobra with a 427 would be a fun car as well. But to get better fuel mileage and have to factor in oil mileage doesn't bode well for the long term success of the rotary in my opinion. To use more gas than the faster more powerful 350 nissan or the XC90 doesn't show much improvement over the old Very fast twin turbo RX-7. The question I have to ask is this, is the RX-8 a better car than the old RX-7? At this fuel mileage and this reported oil consumption I have to wonder. It is a better price I agree but it sure wouldn't make me jump ship to get one. You have every right to call it a quirk. I call it a flaw you can drive a 350 through. I think the Corvette and the SSR get that kind of fuel mileage.

    I am glad they brought back the RX I am just sad that they didn't live up to the press of fixing the problems of the rotary fuel and oil usage.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    "The question I have to ask is this, is the RX-8 a better car than the old RX-7?"

    Well, I do believe that the overall car is much better than the old one - $10K cheaper than the old turbo for the same performance, and a back seat people can use occasionally if you are into that sort of thing...

    The looks of the '93 were better though. The issue with the engine consuming oil and gas is offset by the engine's compact size, low weight, and ability to slot in behind the front axle - this car has great weight distribution. And winding that rotary out to 9000 rpm must be pure nirvana, I am sure.

    Mileage is not out of this world low, either. Their long-term Z was getting 18 overall for them, with their typical heavy footed driving style. And of course, the Z was going through a set of tires every 18K miles with the suspension/alignment issues the Z has right now. Now, do I want to spend $40 every 18K miles on oil, or do I want to spend $600 in the same period of time buying tires?

    A Cobra will smoke this car, but will cost more than $10K more and have a punishing ride as a reward for your money. The Mustang GT will be quicker off the line for the same money, but will be outhandled and outaccelerated by the RX in every other test you might want to put on.

    It is a shame that all the hype that Mazda put out about this new rotary consuming less oil and improving fuel economy was just that - hype. But it is still a great car that can be tons of fun for a good price, and is totally unique into the bargain. It is not dead yet. Didn't I hear that its sales had surpassed the Z's, at least for a single month or something?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "This is only conjecture on my part but if a car is burning a quart of oil between changes and the plugs are not getting fouled the oil isn't being burnt in the combustion chamber."

    If the oil is being burnt, it's going through the combustion chamber.

    Like I said before, if the car is low on oil, it either leaked out, or went out the tailpipe.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Here is mazda's near future plans

    The Miata Ibuki design has been dropped for a new design...the new design looks like the current car with the nose off the RX-8. I have a picture if you email me....No rotary. 2006.

    The RX8 will be offered as a 2 door coupe and convertable for 2006-2007

    MX-Flexa has been approved for Europe and Asia, no decision for North America. If it comes to the NA market, it will be 2007 model year. Based on MZ3 platform.

    MPV..total redesign for 2007 model year. Will be MZ6 based. AWD is under serious consideration. The platform will also be used for Ford Freestar and Merc. monteray redesigns.

    B-series.....total redesign for 2009 along witht he Ford Ranger

    Tribute goes to MZ6 platform for 2008 model year. total redesign planned for then.

    A premium sprot wagon is planned for 2007. It will be based on a stretched MZ6 platform. Will have a 3.5l V6 from ford. will be highest price point vehicle for Mazda, starting around $27K. This vehicle will be the size of the Honda Pilot and will offer third tow seating.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,692
    if this is what we have to expect for Mazda in future: that every new segment it jumps into will first be occupied by a rebadged and slightly tweaked Ford (like Tribute), to be followed a few years on by a new model entirely designed by Mazda, which Ford will then use as the basis for all its future Ford, Mercury, (Lincoln?), and Volvo products in that segment...

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    ... now that it has been cleaned up in emissions to meet Euro II standards (comparable to LEV II in US?). It is A LOT cleaner than any previous rotary cars were capable of.

    there IS a market for it, not nearly as big as say the midsize family sedan market (for reasons stated above), but it'll carve out it's own niche and stay in there as long as price is held under control :-)
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    Why in the world is Mazda (or Ford) delaying the redesign of the B-Series trucks for so long? People don't want to wait four more years for the new truck to come out.

    And besides, it'll be the longest-running Japanese-brand truck series ever, if it keeps this up.
  • tzoomertzoomer Posts: 18
    How are Mazda sales doing? Have Mazda6 sales improved?

    I haven't seen a newspaper ad in over 8 days from the Mazda dealer for my 3-county area, despite daily spreads from other dealers and weekly ones from Lexus, BMW, and even used car lots. The last one from my multi-brand Mazda dealer was a 1/8th page below the fold in the classified section. They also have no visible role in the community or at sporting events (whether billboards or Spec Miata racing). You'd think they'd be trying hard to make up for the loss of their core Oldsmobile franchise.

    The Mazda TV ad during the Sunday Olympics was pretty generic, didn't give a good view of any one car, just the lot of them zooming in a cloud of desert dust.

    Incidentally, re customer service: local after-sale Suburu customer service is superb (if they don't fix it right they make it right for free). But Suburu is the entry brand for an otherwise all-brand-German upscale dealer, so perhaps Suburu customers benefit from trickle-down service quality. I would guess the quality of customer service fundamentally depends on the dealer's standards rather than the brand; it's just that in out-state areas they can be few and far between if your local one is a lemon. I have no complaint about my Mazda dealer.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    Is doing pretty good. Outsells the Nissan Maxima, but then their sales are compromised because the Altama is a better deal if you want that size car. I have no idea how well the Mazda3 is doing. I also don't know what the yearly sales for the Rx is going to be.
  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    Mazda is supposedly doing pretty well. The Mazda 3, Mazda 6 (3 versions) and the RX-8 are raising sales higher than in several years. I like the fact that Mazda is giving it a good effort.
  • Hey guys,

    I know this has been talked about before,but I have to chime in.The rotary engine by design burns oil.It always has,and probably always will.The amount that it burns is proportional to how much you use the loud pedal.Autoweek has been complaining about the oil consumption as well as the fuel mileage.These two things are linked.The more you step into it the more fuel you will burn,and the more oil will be burned.It is pretty simple.I have yet to look at the oil injection pump on my new RX-8,but i have rebuilt them on both my RX-7,and my rotary truck.I wish people would do some research on these things before they condemn them.They don't burn an excessive amount of oil if you drive them normal.It is just a fact of life with a rotary.You need to lubricate the apex seals,and the only way mazda has figured this out is with oil injection.It isn't a bad engine design,or poor engineering on Mazda's part.I have been getting 18-19 mpg with my new RX-8 in 90% city driving.Now granted i have yet to really open it up yet with it being so low on miles.I want to break in the engine right.Auto week should be ashamed of themselves,talking about too much oil being burned,and then not telling the regular joe car buyer that it is normal with this engine design.Rant off.

    Chris
Sign In or Register to comment.