Oil Change

camryman5 · May 2003

I recently purchased a 2002 Camry LE 4cyl(20,000 miles). Is it alright to drive 5,000 miles between oil change? For me, that would mean 2, maybe 3, oil changes per year.

Also: Please feel free to discuss any other experiences you may have had (good or bad) with the 2002 Camry.

Thanks!

nippononly · May 2003

5000 miles between oil changes is fine, and this is in fact what I do.

You will get lots of different opinions on this board though! Including several that will tell you to switch to synthetic at 1000 miles and never look back.

The required interval by Toyota to maintain the warranty is 5000-7500 miles between changes, depending on usage. You would be going with the most frequent of those intervals, which should be fine.

You might want to make sure of getting 3 oil changes per year if you drive less than 10K in a year, though.

bretfraz · May 2003

That's as far as I'd ever go on conventional (non synthetic) oil. By 5K the additives package is used up and the protective qualities drop significantly. I've seen many used oil analyses where the oil is wasted before 5K to want to push my luck beyond.

You can further on full synthetics (7500+) if your goal is to stretch change intervals.

df2000 · May 2003

Is this 4cyl. engine one of these famous yota sludge monster? Anyway, I wouldn't trust regular oil for more then 3000mi/3mo,and synthetic(mobil-1) 6000mi/6mo.

krzyss · May 2003

it was 6 cyl that was sludging.
camryman5, do a search for sludge and toyota, you should find some info.

Krzys

nematode · May 2003

If you are going to keep the car around 5-7 years and then sell it (trade it or whatever)I would go to the absolute limit on all fluid changes (including oil) to stay under warranty. So 7500 miles a change or at least 1 change a year on regular oil. Its what I do but I dont plan on keeping the car more than 5-7 years and then I really dont care what happens to it. I'm doing 7500 mile changes now and I'm going to do 15,000 changes (1 time a year) once the warranty runs out. I do run synthetic but thats only because I have coupons.

On the other hand, if you want to keep it until it dies of natural causes (like 10-15 years) then 3-5k oil changes are probably better but the evidence is not all that clear cut. There is little evidence that the 3k or even 5k change is necessary within the useable life of the car (about 10-15 years). Beyond that, it may be but very few cars are kept that long.

On the other other hand if it makes you feel better to do the 3k change then just do the 3k change. If you are doing it yourself its less than $10. Its about $20-25 if you have a a quick lube place to it. Just keep in mind that if are paying $20-25 a chance then the difference is about $500-800 over 150k miles. Thats enough to pay to have your transmission rebuilt....which is more likely to fail than your engine. Still your mental health is more important so if 3k makes you feel good do it.

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

3K oil and filter changes, done by the owner/driver: just can't be beat for safety and efficacy.

slov98 · May 2003

Should you have the oil changed after 500 miles? to get rid of any tiny metal pieces that may accumulate as the engine is broken in?

swschrad · May 2003

and I split the difference in the last car. purists believe in factory break-in oil with possibly mild abrasives in it, certainly believe that you will grow tons of foundry sand, metal shavings, etc. in the break-in period. they want to dump it all pronto. I've been there in two vehicles.

automakers generally are on the other side... no magic in the factory oil fill, they want the little bit of nonsense that is big enough to be trouble caught in the oil filter, and the microparticles that might develop will help the break-in process. the automakers say, normal change schedule, DO NOT perform an early change. IT IS NOT recommended.

I wimped out and changed mine in the exploder at 1000 miles. so much for principle, my guts ran out.

I have not run ten cars with and ten cars without, or 50 and 50, or any valid survey. one guy's story is not a valid survey here by any stretch of statistical nightmares.

it's almost religion to some folks. practice what you preach, it's allowed here. expect folks on both sides to try and scratch out each others' eyes in the ensuing discussion... anything that pretends to be a discussion concerning OIL seems to bring all the moths to the flame

tboner · May 2003

I changed the filter at 1K miles and added a quart of Mobil 1 to the factory fill.

TB

nippononly · May 2003

I have always changed the first oil at 5K. I only kept one of the four past 100K miles however...that one was still running fine original engine no oil consumption at 115K when I sold it.

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

When contemplating the desirability of changing oil and oil filter early, on new cars, don't forget the AIR filter. On the last several new cars in my family, I have noted that for whatever reason, there is a tendency for new car air filters to already be "nastied" up a bit, I suppose right from the factory. I have noted a "non dangerous" volume of black nasty stuff on practically every new car air filter.

nematode · May 2003

1) Cars are disposable. You use them for 5-7 years and then ditch them.
2) The vast majority of "car trouble" is not related in any way to oil change interval.
3) The transmsission is far more likely to fail than the engine even with regular care.

I think they are all true. However, I would not go more than 10k on regular oil.....every person has their limits!!! I have done the 10k interval with regular oil in a variety of domestic and foreign makes that I got used. They were all fine to at least 100k miles (at least 50k with me) and several to 150k+. Yes, they do get some sludge in the pan but it does not seem to kill the engine. I wonder how badly you have to treat your car to kill the engine due to oil failure?

tboner · May 2003

But then I've broken four transmissions in my lifetime, and have yet to have had a catastrophic engine failure.

I think part of that is because of the 3-5K oil change intervals typically found in America. (Of course that means for every one of us who changes at 3K, there is some guy changing at 7K-10K miles.

Most people never touch their transmission fluid. Talk about a fluid with a rough life, you have to lubricate and operate in the pressure environments normally reserved for gear oils, but yet still be useful as a hydrallic fluid.

For example, went to the parts counter of my local Mazda dealer the other day for a pan gasket, filter and O-ring for my 2000 Mazda MPV. The parts guy said I was the first one to ask him for these parts.

Doesn't anyone change transmission fluid and filter anymore?

I just finished these tasks on my 94 Geo Prizm. (I don't think the owner ever changed the gear oil on this car in 9 years.) And I installed ATF+3 in the gearbox of my 98 SVT Contour. Now before everyone flips out about ATF in a manual tranny, Fords factory fill is Mercon. However, there is no friction modifier so the syncros don't work well.

Ford sells a 4oz bottle of FM that is about $20 or something silly like that to add to the Mercon fluid.

ATF+3 is essential Mercon with FM added, and 3 quarts are under $10 at your local parts store or Wal*Mart

Seems to do quite nicely.

The MPV would also have new fluid and filter, but the Mazda guy had to order them. So next weekend for that project.

TB

nippononly · May 2003

this car I just bought (Matrix) recommends the auto trans fluid NEVER BE CHANGED in the life of the car, unless it is used for towing.

Seeing as I will probably not have the patience to keep this car more than 100-150K, I am bloody-mindedly going to do exactly that - not change it ever. I wonder if it will make it?

I agree that automatic transmissions are a lot more likely to fail than engines, with or without proper maintenance.

I do believe in keeping a car until it dies in principle, but in reality I get bored with them after 5-7 years...to my shame!

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

Great pair of posts! The tech info is useful, and the philosophy entertaining.

mxylplik2 · May 2003

So if motor oil should be changed every 3k (dino) - 6k (syn) to keep the engine running for awhile, how often should tranny fluid be changed? What other maintainenance on a tranny should be performed other than fluid changes to make it last awhile?

nippononly · May 2003

may vary with model nowadays...before getting the car I have now, I would have said to change the fluid every 30K or two years, but in the Matrix you are not supposed to change it ever, unless you tow, so obviously things are changing on that one...

irishalchemist · May 2003

...really depends on the tranny. As nippononly says, 30K is the average. However, if you own a Ford/Mazda product with the dreaded CD4E (Mazda 626 or Tribute, Contour, Mystique, Escapade...), then you want to do the fluid at 15K miles, at least once a year. This tranny has no filter to change, no pan to drop, and a terrible repair record. One of the problems in these cars is the tiny transmission coolers fitted to the cars, so the tranny heats up and cooks the fluid in less than 30K. Did it on my wife's 626 last May, and plan to do it again Next week (actually, next couple of weeks, as I do partial dilutions of the old fluid to get to the stuff in the torque converter).

I know that with the CD4E is a matter of time, but I want to stretch that as much as possible.

I also agree with nematode. Most of my trouble with cars have been plugs, wires, hoses popping off, CV joints, etc., etc. The only real problem I ever had that was oil related was when I drove a rented Dodge Caravan over a big pothole. I heard 'cronk', and the oil light lit up. My brother in law told me not to worry about it, that his car did that all the time, so I kept going. 2 miles later the van was chugging like a steam engine, and moving at a similar speed. We stopped, looked under the engine, and found a 5" cut in the oil pan - We had ran the engine dry for 2 miles. Called the rental company and they brought a new one: Since we had LDW, they never asked what had happened.

G.

andre1969 · May 2003

I don't necessarily go by what the manual says...I value my mechanic's opinion more. For instance, my Intrepid has 100K mile spark plugs, and IIRC, the book calls for 100K mile tranny services, but reduces that to 50K for "severe service".

Well, my driving must be considered much, much worse than "severe", because mine needed to be changed at 30K! And this is a mechanic whom I've trusted for years, not some shady quickie place or the dealer whose service department, even in the words of a salesman there, "sucks".

Those 100K spark plugs? Well, they needed a change out when I took the car in at 51K to have some work done on it (spark plugs, rear brake pads, and a leaky thermostat housing).

For awhile though, while I was racking up miles quickly, it was all stop-and-go, as I used to deliver pizzas, so that may partially explain my shorter maintenance intervals.

The coolant is supposed to be good for 5 years/100k miles, but I'm probably going to have it changed, along with the belts and hoses, this fall. That'll be 4 years, and maybe 85K miles. All that 100K mile stuff may sound sweet and tempting, but considering that the car only had a 3/36K warranty, what do they have to lose by printing longer service intervals? Most people don't even keep a car 100K miles, and that's probably what they're counting on!

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

The extended service interval on items like spark plugs seem excessive when they go out to 100K miles. I have found that most vehicles show some improvement in performance when they get new plugs, even though the old ones were short of the recommended service life.

nippononly · June 2003

who uses their car to deliver pizzas, or any other type of delivery route for that matter, should observe the severe maintenance schedule and then HALVE the mileage intervals shown there...

nmae · June 2003

DIY oil and filter change on a 2003 V6 4runner!
Please help.

tboner · June 2003

<smartaleck on>Well you can stop by anytime after 7AM CDT, or you can ask a more specific question.

I don't mind changing oil, and would be glad to help for a box of Krispy Kremes, LOL. </smartaleck off>

Seriously, we need more information about what you really need/want.

TB

nmae · June 2003

thanks TB,
do you know if i have to take the skid plate off to locate the oil plug (pan). I'm near Walmart I'll send u boxes of Krispy for an oil change!

swschrad · June 2003

they wouldn't be any good if they didn't cover up the oil pan (and its drain plug,) so there you are.

might be a case for one of those fram easy-drain valves, if it would fit underneath. you'd still drool four plus quarts all over the skid plate and have to clean it up, but you wouldn't be driven insane trying to get the goldang drain plug back IN afterwards.

hmmm, I wonder, just wonder, if it might be worth getting a 3 or 4 inch circular compound saw bit for the drill and make a hole in the skid plate where the drain plug goes once the skid plate is taken off the first time. just thinking out loud here.................

sequoiasoon · June 2003

Not sure on the 4runner but on the Sequoia and Tundra the skid plate has to come down to change the filter. The drain plug on the V8 is right behind the crossmember very well protected. You could ask one of the dealership mechanics what they do to change oil on it. I asked 3 different mechanics at 3 dealers about mine and they all said drop the 5 bolts holding the skid plate and take it off to get to filter (PITA). You can contact www.skidplates.com and see if they have or can make an easier access plate for yours (they do for the Tundra and Sequoia) Their plates are more heavy duty than stock also.

tboner · June 2003

If it is like most SUV's that never see terrain any more difficult than the soccer field parking area, do you really need to put the skid plate back on???

TB

nippononly · June 2003

for quite a while have had the same situation.

FWIW, it takes me about two minutes to drop the five bolts on mine to get in to do the oil change, maybe three minutes to put it back on because I have to position the skid plate first.

It's really no big deal, certainly not worth the hassle of drilling a hole through it for future changes, IMO!

nmae · June 2003

Finally done it by myself! Easy access on the filter and the drain plug - you do not have to take the skid plate off. There is a removable plastic shield about 6"X4" that easily come off that cover the drain plug.
It took me about 40 mins including the wait to drain the old oil. I used Mobil1 for my first Oil Change 1k miles and my next one will be 7500 miles.

lok888 · June 2003

I have my new 03 Camry a week ago. When will be my first oil change due? Someone still told me at the first 1000 miles. Someone said not until first 3000 miles.

lok888 · June 2003

Does anyone know the rear headrests are adjustable on 2002-2003 Camry? Those two rear headrests seem to attached to the seat on my 2003 Camry SE. BTW, I do see the speakers are also from JBL.

gm02 · June 2003

Back in Nov I changed the oil in my truck,'02 LS Silverado using Mobile 1(PureOne filter). I determined I would go 6 months 7,500 miles. Since Nov, I have only put about 2,500 miles on the truck....just not being used.
What do you folks recommend?
Keep going till Nov then change or change now?
If the oil isn't being worked, are the miles more important than the time?
Does the amount of time the oil is in your engine, mean anything if it isn't being worked ?
I wouldn't thing twice of spending an extra $25 a year in protecting a $25K truck. But only driven say about 2K miles in 6 months, won't I just be flushing out perfectly good oil ?
If not, I'll change it without hesitation.

Appreciate any input.

lok888 · June 2003

I think oil should be changed at every 3000 miles or 3 months even if it's not driven a lot. I can't find any facts to back me up. But someone mentioned to me oil should be flushed/replaced every 3 months even if it has not driven a lot like it has been garaged during the winter months. I think it is because of the chemistry change in the oil.

armtdm · June 2003

If you drive it at least 10 miles about everytime you start it up then you can go one year, I have and it was only 2100 for the year, same filter also (analysis was fine) . Now, if a lot of cold starts with short trips then 6 months or so would be more then adequate, especially with Mobil 1.

nippononly · June 2003

the key is how long the trips are. If all the trips are short, oil will get more diluted.

On that Camry, the first oil change is recommended by Toyota at whatever normal interval you are going to use. The book says 5000 miles for "severe" and 7500 for regular use. I use the 5000-mile interval.

dustyk · June 2003

Motor oils suffer from a number of depletion factors. Shearing is normally a product of excessive RPM operation, long use in high temperature conditions, or improper oil selection for cold weather operation.

With low mileage over time, or vehicles operated for very short durations, the biggest problem is moisture build up and subsequent water dilution. This, coupled with engines that never reach full operating temperature for very long, leads to premature sludge build up as well.

Modern engine oils, especially multiviscosity oils, actually stay stable longer under high temperature operation than they do when they start to pick up moisture. Modern multi-vis oils have improved so much in the last thirty years, that I would rather put 10,000 miles on the oil in one month, than 2000 miles on in three months.

Regards,
Dusty

acelink · July 2003

Had a DIY oil change using 5W-30. I am short about 1/2 quart. I am wondering if I can simply add 5W-40 that I have on hand. Is this possible?

swschrad · July 2003

worst case you are going to end up with 5w-31.33684... if there is enough mileage on the 5w-30, so the additive package may be partially worn out, you could be 5w-29.88886478. close enough.

and then you can lay in 5w-30 for future top-offs, and all will be happy.

austinman7 · July 2003

I bought my '03 Camry XLE V6 in December. This is the engine that was the subject of the very long thread about oil sludge that ran last summer at this site. I'm guessing all of that is still archived here at Edmunds somewhere.

At any rate, I've received lots of conflicting information from my dealership and from Toyota on the subject of oil change intervals. My salesperson recommended 3,500, at the same time she was handing me a flyer produced by the dealership that said, "Performing oil change services every 3,000 miles will eliminate a condition known as 'oil gelling' or 'oil sludge.' These conditions cause severe engine damage and are not covered under the manufacturer's warranty."

The information from Toyota that came with the car recommends 5,000 or 7,500 mile intervals, depending on how you use the car. This flyer also has a dire warning about "oil sludge build-up."

Then, I received a flyer in the mail sometime in February from the service department suggesting that I come in at 5,000 miles for my first service.

My point in posting all this is to show that Toyota obviously is very concerned about the possibility of oil gel with this particular engine, and also very contradictary in its advice to me on how to handle the situation. In all my 40-plus years of owning automobiles, I've never had a manufacturer give me any kind of warnings at all about this potential problem, or be so equivicating about their advice.

So, with all this conflicting advice, my own decision has been to change the oil every 3,000 miles. Maybe I'm wasting time and money, or maybe it's "beter safe than sorry." I really don't know. It's a confusing situation to me. But, if you do have this engine, I would suggest a cautious approach, at the very least.

Other than that, I'm enjoying the heck out of the car. Smooth, quiet, comfortable, a pleasure to own and drive.

gluan · July 2003

This sludge business is like being HIV positive and may or never having AIDS.

Anyway, I would go further using a synthetic oil in case that I cannot bring the car in on time by 3500 miles oil change.

I also have 3.0 L V6 engine in my car. No problem so far (knock on wood...).

swschrad · July 2003

for resistance to temperature effects and because it doesn't have any paraffins to separate out and become sludge.

doesn't matter as much on most cars.

canoe2 · July 2003

Would it be safe to use synthetic oil after 6000 miles or 9000Km for engine breaking properly?
I noticed the V6 engine is extremely hot even after few hours it has been shut off.

austinman7 · July 2003

...for the idea on synthetic oil. I'll see what my service rep has to say at the next oil change.

duff8 · July 2003

Should I use a synthetic oil in my 04 auto WRX? Would it be helpful? If so, do I keep it on it's regular schedule?

rob35cts · July 2003

The new cadillac cts requires you to use synthetic, Like mobile 1 from day 1!. all synthetic oils are not the same. Some do not meet the same standards. The owners manual states that it must meet standard gm4781m. I asked cadillac about the previous motor that did not require synthetic, if it would be ok and they said it would. The said as long as it meets min requirements the warranty would not be voided. So I have been using mobile 1 from day 1! In fact all corvettes cadillacs porshes bmw's and many more come from the factory with mobile 1 in them.

Oil Change

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