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Subaru XT Turbo Forester
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Comments
I thought the jury was still deliberating about whether the definition of supercharged (with a belt?) included turbocharged (using the exhaust stream).
I'd rely on howstuffworks.com, but they flop ads up for SpiralMax and the Tornado when you search for supercharger or turbocharger, so that makes everything on their site suspect! <g>
It's interesting what that email didn't say; does decreased performance and driveability mean damage to the engine will occur on a regular diet of 87 octane? Or simply that you won't get the performance that you paid for?
There's some good (non-octane) info in Turbochargers vs. Superchargers: which is better?.
Steve, Host
There will be a small loss of power, probably about 5 HP, and maybe slightly lower mpg. For many people the difference won't be noticeable.
The $.01 per mile saved by using regular isn't much when compared to the total cost of owning an XT of $.35 to $.40 per mile, but it does pay for new tires, an extended warranty, or future repairs.
I also have owned two turbocharged cars in the past and neither required premium (nor even recommended it for that matter) and both ran fine on regular. Having said that, I don’t own an XT (not yet at least) and if I did, I’m still not certain that I would use less than 91 octane. Were I the type to frequently push the performance limits or if the XT had a high-pressure turbo I’m almost certain that I would not (for those reasons, I would never consider using less than 91 octane in the WRX Sti). However, I’m certainly not going to condemn someone who does use something less than the “recommended” grade.
-Frank P.
Please know that one of the reasons the Subaru forums are my favourite (and why I am thiiisssss close to getting a new Forester - my fingers are thisss close together!) is the civility of you all, along with high participation rate of Subaru owners.
Regarding the premium debate, I think that there is a general distrust of much of what we are told by our car manufacturers (MSRP vs Invoice, for example), and this debate is another example of how unclear information breeds feelings of distrust.
-Frank P.
The conclusion sums it up nicely: Sport meets utility in the best way in the 2004 Subaru Forester XT.
-Frank P.
and the darn touareg comes with VW recc. for premium gas in both the V6 and the V8!
mark
Larry
Driving the beast is really a pleasure. I never had to downshift to 4th and in about 10 second, it managed to accelerate from 60 mph to 80 mph driving uphill on I17. If I hadn't let go of the gas, it would have shot up to 120 mpg ;-). But after witnessing a multiple-car crash on the way down which involved one flipped over pickup truck, I knew better how tricky it was to drive on that winding road and not test my luck. Am I glad I've chosen a 4WD!
My only complains so far are (1) the wind noise and (2) the rather stiff suspension. At 70 mph, the wind noise is so much louder than the engine noise. It feels worse than our 98 Winstar that already has about 90K under its belt and rattles quite a bit from aging. I'd rather listen to the growl of the engine than the wind. When I picked up the car, the tires were at 40 psi. I release the pressure to about 30 psi but the road bumps still radiate rather prominently to my spinal cord. Maybe I'm just not used to the "sporty suspension".
Pin
Regarding wind noise - some of the members have suggested removing the roof cross bars as a step toward isolating the problem. After that the area around the tweeters seems to be a popular place for noise.
It's also been noted the angle of the windows can be adjusted to mate up better to the seals.
HTH
Larry
Subaru says the H6 engine makes 212hp on premium, 208hp with 87 octane. So there you go, you lose 4hp. Thing is, most people don't notice that difference, unless it's a placebo effect.
I think with a turbo, due to the air being compressed more, you might lose 5-6hp. If 204hp is more than adequate, as long as it does not ping, and of course you are willing to take the risk...
My beef is not the $150, is my bad experience with a 626 V6. We used the recommended premium for the first few years, and the fuel injection got clogged up at about 57k miles. That had never happened to us with any other car! I had a Ford and went out of my way to use the cheapest gas possible and it never had fuel problems.
That was just plain frustrating. Use the expensive, premium name-brand stuff and have problems anyway.
-juice
"High-test does have a potential fuel economy benefit. It is slightly denser than lower-octane gas, meaning there's a little more energy in a gallon. But the small difference is hard to measure in real-world use, and that same density can contribute to undesirable buildup of waste products inside the engine."
This statement was very surprising to me. Like many others, I thought "premium" fuel went through more stages of refinement and being further purified, was therefore a "cleaner" burning fuel. Apparently not.
Ken
http://autos.msn.com/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Subaru&model=Fore- ster
Pin
-Frank P.
The XT will only have a peer when the Saturn Vue Redline arrives, even then it'll only match the automatic XT.
-juice
C&D estimated performance at about 7 seconds to 60 for an automatic. The XT auto should beat that. The 5 speed creams it.
-juice
K
Pretty funny that they told him to switch down, though.
-juice
My friend has a V6 Ford Escape with 100k, and he's never gotten 22mpg on a highway run. I borrowed it for a 1500 mile trip and averaged 20mpg. .. over the same route my XT got 26 and was driven 'somewhat' faster... ymmv!
They installed a Class-2.. 300/3500# as that's all they could hunt-up that fit. It looks good and still was just half the Subaru OEM price!!
-juice
Instinct tells me you'd want something that would hold more oil both for cooling and for filtering.
Interestingly they recommend a full turn after the gasket makes contact - most are 2/3 to 3/4 max.
This thing is tiny. But the good news is, since they made them smaller, they cost lots more.
Larry
Good one, Larry! :-)
Len
Ken
Steve, Host
Thanks for your input
Is Purolator also the OEM for that? What is the wholesale price of the XT oil filter? Try parts@libertysubaru.com for a quote.
-juice
Ken
-juice
Tokyo Roki Co, Ltd. LFS706
Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries) PN : 15208AA080
Dealer got me in the mid $70.00's for a 12 pack.
I might have shopped them some more, but his prices have matched up fairly well overall.
Also, since I'm buying the parts from the dealer, they don't give me grief about doing my own work.
Couldn't find the crush washers at Home Depot - 0.67 per at the dealer. The other dealer, closest to me gets $1.25 each.
HTH
Larry
Larry
I'd click that link there to the left for Tire Rack and look through their reviews of various dedicated winter tires. There are quite a few choices for "peformance" winter tires. It's kind of an oxymoron, but there are some winter tires that give up ultimate traction to maintain some high speed stability.
Ken
Len
Anyway, given the cost of the the Alloy rims if I mangled them, I bought a set of 16" Forester steel wheels on ebay last year. Of course by the time I atually got them, no one had any snow tires left online, and the locals were taking full advantage of the miserable weather (kind of like buying AC in the middle of a heat wave). So I ended up running the Geo's for the entire season.
Now I've got the rims and misgivings about the Geo's with a much "torquier" (sp?) drivetrain. So I think I'll try some snows.
Never did understand putting a traction B tire (the Geo's) on an AWD drive car, unless you're planning on having the AWD make up for deficiences in the tires grip. I am glad they were smart enough to put Temperature A tires on the Forester however. If I had to pick one rating with an A and one with a B I'd go with Trac B, Temp A.
For stock tires for the Forester tirerack.com only has the Blizzaks, the Dunlop Graspic, a Michelin tire, and some Firestones. There's a much better selection in the Outbacks's sizes.
Whatever I do its going to be soon - tirerack was out of the Forester sizes in Nov last year.
Larry
Don't forget the Nokians either, ran them on my Legacy last winter, may give up some ice performance to the Blizzak/Alpin but they are almost as good as the Blizzak LM22 on my WRX in the dry.
When the summer and winter tres on my minivan dies I am going to get Nokian WRs for them and run them year round. Thats the other thing, you can do that on the Nokians and not the other winter tires!
these surges/loses of power were not big but more like i have experienced when a car has a bad plug or not tuned right.
comments about the power issue are welcomed and not the ones on my lack of guts on powering thru the 100mph numbers...
Your surges may or may not be what I'm experiencing. For the last few weeks, 1 or 2 seconds following nearly every upshift (after the clutch is fully engaged and while I'm applying normal steady throttle), I'm getting what feels like fluttering from the electronic throttle. It typically lasts for one or three seconds, and it feels exactly as if I'm rapidly applying and releasing the throttle even though I'm not. It's extremely annoying. Is that anything like what you're talking about? It's on my growing list of issues to discuss at my first service visit.
this continues throughout the life of my foot being buried thru each gear, not just 1 or 2 seconds.
it sometimes feels like the engine is 'flooded' due to the fact than only sometimes when i take my foot a bit off the gas, i then get a surge of power.
i also get that pause when the initial stomp on the gas when the engine or at seems to be thinking about why i am stomping on the gas at 25 mph, then it figures out the downshift.
After lurking here for the better part of a year(and occasionally posting), I have finally convinced my better half to put in our order for a silver XT Premium. We're working with our local dealer, Maurice (thanks juice!) to settle the details, but I hope to have the order in by the end of the week. It should be fairly straightforward since my wife qualifies for the VIP treatment through her professional society.
I've asked that we get a "fresh" car from the factory so it could take a little while to get to us, but I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.
Does anyone have a good reference for financing?
Many thanks again,
--dcdouglas
I rarely use wide-open-throttle, but on those few times I've done so, I haven't noticed what you're experiencing. The only thing I notice is the half-second or so of lag that's presumably due either to the turbo or perhaps to reaction time in resetting the variable valve timing to the new demand. Once past that initial lag, the acceleration is strong and sustained.
So, the only aberration I'm experiencing is the throttle flutter lasting a few seconds shortly after each upshift.
Question for you both: what octane? Jack is still using premium, right?
-juice