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Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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Comments

  • dcdouglasdcdouglas Member Posts: 28
    I normally lurk here, but I'll jump into the flame fray on this one.
    Pros:
    -Acceleration/Power even at highway speeds
    -AWD and handling, no matter the weather
    -Fit and finish (Mine's a XT/PP)
    -Utility
    -Safety
    -Audio quality of the factory stereo
    -The smile my wife gives me when the heated seats warm her in the right way!
    -The smile I get when I blow the doors off all SUVs and most other cars when the light turns green!

    Cons:
    -Fuel efficiency (I now understand power vs. fuel)
    -No MT w/ PP (Come on, Subaru--Canada gets it)
    -Climate Control has a mind of its own (at times)
    -Interior road noise transmitted (likely the tires)
    -Stereo--need to press "load" before loading CDs or risk irreperable damage to the head unit?
    -Smallish fuel tank and range (only 15 gals?)
    -Not enough seat time!
    -Not enough seat time!
    -Not enough seat time!

    (Sorry about that last one. My wife uses our XT as the daily commuter while I'm either hoofing it, pedaling, or riding a bus.
    --dcdouglas
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry to hear you thought the Vue's suspension still felt floaty. Was it a Redline package? How were the seats?

    Vague steering, too?

    Saturn has to realize they can't just plop in a powerful engine, you have to balance the whole package. It needs to handle better too, brakes, maybe even chassis bracing. Definitely get rid of those spongy seats, too.

    Altima is fast, but rides a little stiff and has wicked torque steer. That plus the interior is cheap. Handling and acceleration are excellent for the price.

    -juice
  • bobshere1bobshere1 Member Posts: 59
    I recall a post about optimum seat adjustment to get a maximum bed for sleeping in XT. When I tried it there was quite a gap above my head, shortening the bed too much. How was that eliminated ? I didn't play around with this as I had a bit of junk in the car and I just slept on the diagonal for that night....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Remove all the headrests. Fold the rear seats as flat as they go. Now move the front seats forward, and recline them to meet up with the back of the rear seat.

    Try it out.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    The owner's manual for the 04s actually covers how to covert for sleeping (just as Juice described).

    -Frank P.
  • stuhallstuhall Member Posts: 59
    that you didn't drive off the lot in my XT.....

    stuhall "Subaru Crew: Problems & Solutions" Dec 24, 2003 2:59pm
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    In 1120 miles, I've only had one fill-up below 20 MPG at 18.5 with a high of 22.7 - no cruise, varying throttle position / rpm's, all mix city / highway with a max speed of 90. This is consistent with the MPG of my '98 V-8 SHO under similar conditions although the SHO was well broke-in w/ 81k on the clock. I'm still very impressed in how smooth the XT builds torque & speed without drama.

    93 premium just dropped to $1.33/9 at a Shell/Texaco nearby... :)

    Happy Holidays!
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Holy moly. 89 new messages since I last checked and many of them quite lengthy too!

    jb: It's good to know that despite all your ranting, you do like your XT. Sometimes people need to know that.

    Geolandars: I thought they were a decent all-season tire too. I replaced mine at 45,000 miles with some tread left to spare before hitting the wear indicators.

    Ken
  • bonvivantbonvivant Member Posts: 27
    Among the nearly sixty cars I've owned (I won't confess to many other expensive behaviors), I've owned three BMWs -- not bad benchmarks for road worthiness. My last BMW was a '99 E36 M3. FWIW, its mid gear and top gear/ RPM relationships were nearly identical to those in my XT MT. While not ideal for some -- nor even for BMW, apparently, as the latest M3 now comes with six forward gears -- the combination produces prompt and effortless acceleration at nearly any speed. The XT is nearly as responsive to throttle inputs as the M3. This is a decided, "active safety" factor. (The low first gear seems to be a concession to creeping up steep and slippery inclines or slithering through Australian bogs, as some comrades down under have pointed out.

    On balance, I don't feel I've stepped down from the BMW. With due respect to Hondas, Acuras and Toyotas I've owned, the XT has an overall road competence (superior AWD system) and solidity that I haven't seen matched by another $24,000 car -- and I looked hard before buying. It damned near leaps the Sierras in a single bound. It's solid and remarkable advancement over my trusty '92 Legacy AWD wagon.

    Lastly, after three years, I'll own it outright, instead of still owing over $30,000.

    Happy Holidays to All!
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    93 premium just dropped to $1.33/9 at a Shell/Texaco nearby... :)

    At that price, I'd be adding smileys, too.

    $1.73.9 in Oregon. ) ;
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    despite all your ranting, you do like your XT. Sometimes people need to know that.

    I've nearly always blended criticisms with praise. It's like a love-hate relationship; some things I like, a lot. Some things, I dislike - a lot. Most of the latter were unnecessary and avoidable, making the car's failure to attain my definition of true greatness all the more maddening. Then again, not many people would share my standards for greatness. Most folks scorn Fiats. My beloved little 850 Spider with graceful Bertone coachwork met and surpassed them with no reservations whatever. Pure delight. I'd still own it today if an 18-wheeler hadn't crushed it like a beer can with me inside.

    Geolandars: I thought they were a decent all-season tire too.

    We've been having typical heavy Oregon winter rains lately, and I haven't detected a trace of hydroplaning. Very confidence-inspiring.

    Ken
  • darbowdarbow Member Posts: 30
    getting back to #2466 about the Vue, i drove a V6 FWD not the red line, for 2 grand you get 18" wheels and suspension upgrades so i would assume the ride will be not as floaty. The steering felt rather vague, but at 24-26k you can get a AWD Forester XT or even a semi loaded Altima 3.5 5speed (family 350Z!!), so saturn will need to keep giving the 0% or 1500 cash back to lure buyers (the ads on tv are pointed directly at me, 30's male speed-freak who likes 80's fun rap songs.)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think I'm at 9 cars since '74. Hard to read Town Hall and not run to the dealers though!

    Gas here is $1.63 - no Oregon full serve surcharge, but still way above the national average.

    Steve, Host
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    since 1988, but #1 was a used Tempo done in by an errant dump truck.

    #2 was a 1986 4Runner I bought used with 90k on it and sold 6 years later with 186k on it.

    #3 is our 1999 OB, which my wife started driving after her 1991 Exploder bit the dust and I bought...

    #4 a used 2.5GT. This is the first car I own that I won't drive into the ground or be done in by some outside force, only because my needs have shifted quite a bit and I am looking seriously at the XT. Should I buy an XT, I intend to keep it for a looong time.
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    Just a little downslope cruise once you get east of the Rockies into the Heartland to enjoy the lower fuel cost... :) Yesterday, 91/93 ranged from 1.44 - 1.48 / gal. (still is at some stations). FWIW, regular unleaded is $1.24/9 at this Texaco.

    Personally, I liked the 850 over the X/1/9 & the more "upscale" 124 - driven all 3...the 850 had more heart & character, IMO. Now a Fiat Abarth...
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    What EXACTLY is Dealer Prep anyway?. I know what Dealer Service Fee's are when you buy a new Car, just an extra built in Profit Margin! My XT came with low Engine Coolant, a Dashboard Buzz that made me hate my new purchase, Windshield wipers that thunked in the massive Rains (used Rain-X, was told by the Potamkin Subaru Service Manager Jim Bosilay that I voided my Warranty) I had a leaking Tire, this Service genius told me it's normal to loose 5 PSI a Week, I felt like punching him out! And STU, my Transmission has done some strange shifting too, actually just the Engine reeving with no movement. I predict a recall down the line? I have found Subaru Customer Service Representatives to be excellent, however I had to purchase the "Gold Added Security" Service Contract to give me some added peace of mind. It is quite disappointing to know that Subaru will allow a Dealership to operate without Subaru Certified Technicians! By the way, I love my XT now, I will never step foot into my Selling Dealer, Potamkin Subaru of Miami, part of the Planet Automotive Group.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One of you has to drive the Redline package for comparison. I may do just that.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Unfortunately, Subaru has very little control over their dealers. In fact most car manufacturers have very little control over them. The system is weird the way it works because the dealers are independent of the manufacturer.

    -mike
  • bobshere1bobshere1 Member Posts: 59
    Thanks for the seat configuration instructions.

       We are alleged to pay the highest gas prices in the nation here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I figure my recent 500 mile trip down to Yosemite to X-C ski cost maybe $10 extra because I bought XT instead of, say, XS. I can live with that. The XTra fun of driving XT was worth that sum to me. It DOES sound like a lot more, when viewed as a percentage though; because I'm figuring, roughly, $40 instead of $30 for gas, which is a 25% penalty.

       If I were commuting, and putting on lots of miles (some here are already at 40k miles!! It will probably take me 5 years to get that on my odometer. I'm retired and XT is a "3rd car".) I might have viewed the gas considerations for this vehicle differently. Or not. Each of us is probably paying quite different prices in different parts of the country/world. We are all in different financial situations and driving different yearly mileage.

       On an unrelated issue: I put a Yakima "Basket Case" and a bike mount (ankle biter) on my XT. I didn't want bars protruding outside the sides of the car (I'm using the flat OEM bars). I discovered I could mount just a front fork mount to the front of the basketcase (think U-bolts) and have the rear wheel of that bike rest on top of the rear side of the basketcase, where I tie it down to the basketcase. I get two bikes up there + the basketcase (mounted way back so as not to obstruct the big view out the moonroof) doing it this way. I also found that I could just bungie strap my X-C skies to the basketcase, so I've also, in effect, got a ski rack up there too! I think this is a good solution to the limited width of XT compared to some big SUV for mounting items on the roof.

       The basketcase gives me those few cu/ft I "lost" by not buying the hulking Honda Pilot that I was comparing to XT. The $7 or $8,000 I saved with XT over a comparable equipped Pilot will pay for a lot of that Premium Gas in XT over the years....
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I've owned 5 cars in 17 years, "co-owned" several more, and have driven close to 50 cars overall. And none of them had retarded seatbelts like the ones in my XT. I'm actualy starting to hate the XT because these idiotic seatbelts make for a very frustrating driving experience. That and the incompetent climate control overshadow the excellent power that the engine delivers. What a shame.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Just a thought: The seatbelts in your XT seem to be exceptions to the general rule; mine don't hold me anywhere near tight enough. Just guessing here, but I suspect you could have the retractors and belts for your driver's seat completely replaced for not much more than a few hundred dollars, and that might make a big difference in your ownership experience. Fixing my beef (the gearing) would cost several thousand and would void the warranty.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I liked the 850 over the X/1/9 & the more "upscale" 124

    Never drove an X1/9, but I'd like to find a mint example someday, or another 850 spider. And if I strike it rich and start a car collection, a double-bubble Abarth 750 coupe would be high on my target list.

    Hope everyone is having a safe and satisfying xmas.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Why not get a set of harnesses? That will fix the problem, and leave the stockers in plce.

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Wow, I am certainly in the company of some car-owner veterans. Here are my purchases:

    #1 - used '86 Honda Accord LXi 5spd
    #2 - used Audi 80 3 speed auto (yep, no overdrive)
    #3 - new '96 Camry base model, auto
    #4 - new '98 Forester S, 5-speed
    #5 - new '00 VW Jetta GLS VR6, auto

    The Yakima Basketcase is very nice. I think it's great that you retain the functionality of the cross bars and get a cargo basket as well.

    Ken
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    The easiest & most cost effective way to obtain a taller final drive ratio is to increase tire size diameter since there are no other easy solutions at the present.

    FWIW, my son & I don't have any issues with the seatbelts in each of our XT AT's. I drive mine for business purposes covering a lot of miles & a lot of entry / exits each day.

    However, in the attempt to be intuitive, the auto climate control does require too many operations to deselect the options you don't want for the functions you do. The heating & cooling capacity is outstanding, though.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    The easiest & most cost effective way to obtain a taller final drive ratio is to increase tire size diameter since there are no other easy solutions at the present.

    True, and I'll definitely change to the tallest 70-profile tires that will still clear when the Geolanders wear out. Unfortunately, the improvement will be limited to only about 5% without installing a lift kit, which I wouldn't want to do. Anyt further improvement requires changing the final drives, and the parts & labor cost for that is in the thousands.
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    I haven't seen a dble bubble since the 60's much less to be able to secure a ride in one. Should you be in a position to add this to your collection, give me a call - I'll ride with ya! :)

    On the X1/9, my brother had one for a few years & I was the one who called to work on it over weekends... Mechanical access to the engine compartment was not friendly. The handling was decent with the mid-engine setup but performance was sluggish - in stock trim anyway. Space utilization overall was very deficient. Quite honestly, I preferred the 850 spider as a driver.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I preferred the 850 spider as a driver.

    In nice weather, so would I; thoroughly enjoyable. In Oregon's 10 months of on/off drizzles, the X1/9 lightweight lift-off targa roof with quick underhood storage would be really nifty. The 5-speed would also be good. Engine access is difficult on any mid-engine car I ever saw.

    Sorry about the topic drift. Slapping hand. Done.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Parked next to an XT at the hill this morning - it was in a slightly better spot, so I guess the owner drove up through the twisties faster than me :-)

    Steve, Host
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Must have been the Cayenne Red Pearl but it didn't look like a bright red - more subdued.

    Steve, Host
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    didn't look like a bright red - more subdued.

    Foresters wouldn't look quite right in Ferrari Racing Red.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You won't get much more out of the tires, since they'll hit the struts before you hit the fenders.

    -mike
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I had the seatbelts replaced twice already, no improvement. I want these things to be as loose as possible without slacking, I don't want to feel like the Incredible Hulk is squeezing my chest and hips. I wish there was a way to unwind the belt a little off the spring so the tension is lower.
    The ony thing you can do about the gearing, is get a used diffy from another car (maybe the Outback H6?) from a junkyard. If the H6 diffy fits, I'm sure it will be able to handle the power. Or, you can wait until someone totals their A/T XT and buy a diffy from them. In either case, you'll have to recalibrate the speedometer.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You can'd just chance the rear diffy. You'd need to change both the front and rear diffys. If it's an AT, this is quite a project to do :(

    -mike
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    And besides that, all XTs (both 5-speed and automatic) use the same final drive gearing. A wrecked automatic version wouldn't have anything better to offer. To get an improvement would require installing the 3.9 units from the WRX.
  • ugly1ugly1 Member Posts: 52
    My List (somewhat in order)

    64 Malibu(u) 74 Corolla(n) 78 F-150(n)
    81 Citation(n) 73 VW Bus (u) 68 Camaro(u)
    71 Fiat 128(u) 74 Fiat 128(u) 63 Nova(u)
    XX Valiant(u) 79 Colt(u) 66 El Camino(u)
    75 Bronco(u) 81 Bronco(u) 73 Fury(u)
    88 T-Bird(n) 94 Explorer(n) 97 Audi A4(n)
    01 Audi TT(n) 04 XT & 10 motorcycles.

    Note the two 128's. They were his and her cars. I always thought of them as a poor mans'BMW.

    Yes, I'm probably older than most of you, but not Jack as he gave his age away already. The last five have been new so I think I may have cured myself and the way I feel about the XT right now may keep me from another purchase for several more years.
     
    I asked several posts before but received no replys, so I'll ask again. Does anyone know of any Subaru Clubs. I live in NE Ohio.

    I'd like to thank whoever it was that posted about playing with the seat height. I'm rather tall and by raising the seat it changed the angle on my right ankle and now I'm pretty much satisfied. Thanks.

    John
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    tend to be populated by, aaaahhh, a slightly younger demographic. WRX guys mostly. The 2 biggest boards that have regional forums (and therefore, meets) are i-club.com and nasioc.com
  • ugly1ugly1 Member Posts: 52
    Lucien - Is there something wrong with younger people?

    John
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    not a bit.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I dunno almost all the meets that I attend in tri-state are 26-46yos. Not exactly a "young" demographic.

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    it tends to be new WRX owners, mostly. 26 yo max, maybe a couple of us 30somethings.
  • jbrotherjbrother Member Posts: 31
    I would like opinions on possible new car choice:

    Was flipping between XT 5spd and Baja turbo 5spd. I can buy any subie at invoice through prof assoc, so xt would be ~$23, baja turbo would be ~22. Now I have come across an 04 maxima 5 spd, many options, sticker at $31, but has hail damage and could buy for 24 or 25 grand. But now am getting excited about an 04 Infiniti G35 sedan, 6spd with sunroof for 31 grand sticker, purchase for 29 or 30 grand. ANy thoughts?

    Baja turbo: lowest price, utility of truckness, slightly slower than XT, a little better gas mil than XT. Honestly, it's pretty ugly to look at.

    XT: Insanely fast acceleration, funky looks, usable cargo, but no messy stuff like baja, a grand more than baja but much nicer interior with wx band radio and climate control, no sunroof versus standard roof on baja.

    04 Max 6spd: Luxury, front-drive torque steer, fast, very smooth and lots of neat options, big car, good gas mil (20/29), it's too family car like? (do not need family car), sloppy shifter?

    04 G35 4dr 6spd: great styling, superb rear dr chassis, very fast and great top end (146mph), decent mil (20/27), great shifter/clutch, no folding back seat, limited cargo, no offroad ability, possibly would look to rich for my neighborhood (kind of white-trash neighborhood)...it might get vandalized.

    Right now I am seriously leaning on G35 with only sunroof option, sticker 31.5k, invoice 28.5k

    ANY THOUGHTS??
    thanks!

    PS - neon turbo with front limited slip! it's only 20grand, as fast or faster than all the above, but it's ugly and it's a chrysler...

    Also, would faintly consider wrx wagon but no sunroof, and it's small!

    Man, there are some great cars on the market right now!
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    Hey jbrother - what is your list of requirements for the car? What are you looking for exactly? I can't really help you with that list without knowing that.

    If you are looking for high performance check out the Subaru STi, if you are looking for utility look at the Forester XT or Baja, if you are looking for performance and looks but don't care about utility check out the 350z. All those cars can be bought for under 30k.

    Happy shopping.

    overtime
  • jbrotherjbrother Member Posts: 31
    Hey Overtime,

    I can under 30k, want something fast, reasonably confortable, fairly reliable, decent mileage, good looking. i currently have a 96 240sx and a 92 pathfinder. right now am leaning toward getting rid of the pathfinder, would like to hold onto the 240 for sentimental reasons and because i love the car. i really like the g35, but haven't driven one yet. i tested the XT and really was impressed with the accel, hwvr it's not exactly sporty, lots of lean in turns, but has a ton of utility and is a fair price, plus i can buy at invoice price. i do not want to look like i bought something real extravigant, and am thinking the g35 might be that way, and i would constantly have to worry about scratching it, etc. i don't really want to stick out via the vehicle i drive, altho it is a 4dr sedan. i really like the z but think for the price the g35 can do almost all the z can plus it is a luxury car but not nearly the chick magnet...

    thanks!
  • jbrotherjbrother Member Posts: 31
    yea, i enjoy looking at new cars and don't need anything right away, so will just take my time. i know some people absolutely hate to car shop
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    This is not an endorsement of Subaru's lending partner (Chase) however prospective Buyers might consider the fact that Subaru wants to sell Cars, and Chase wants to lend Money to Subaru Customers. While I didn't receive zero percent Financing at the time of Purchase (it wasn't being offered, and only the top 5 percent of Consumers with 710 + Credit Scores will qualify) I received a lower rate than expected. Also this Weekend, the end of the Month and the end of the Year, is a perfect time to strike a great deal on your new XT!
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...although I don't expect deals on 2004 models to get worse with the start of a new year, either.
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Paisan, Jack, Juice - if the three of you especially get a chance to look at this post I'd appreciate it, especially for items 4 & 5. Anyone else also please feel free to weigh in - I'll take all the advice I can get.

    Been too busy with other stuff the last few days to keep up on the boards. Plenty to read to catch up. Kind of a long post but lots to update and a couple of questions.

    1) Mileage - driving at 80+ on the interstate = 22 mpg. Driving at 65 with cruise control = 22.63. Think I'll stick with the 80 (only when safe, and with good road conditions - I like my speed, but only when safe for myself and fellow highway drivers :<) ).

    2) Winterforce tires - I've now driven them in heavy stow, light snow, pouring rain w/50mph crosswinds, snow covered ice, slush - kind of everything I could hope to test out a tire. More than I'd hope to in one season actually.
    For $52 a pop from tirerack I think they're a heck of a deal. Got to drive them in the mountains of NH this week in areas that were too much for the Geolanders on my XS. The only downside I've found is they're very noisy depending upon the pavement you're driving on. Sometimes a little noisy, sometimes a lot. I've now put over 1000 very tough miles on them.

    3) Rattles - still got that snapping and popping from the dash - pulled the pages from the service manual and have studied the attaching points.

    Hope to try to adjust this week. Minor rattle from drivers door at elbow height. Responds well to nudge from elbow.

    4) Defroster - When up country this week I hit some foul weather the defroster couldn't keep up with - the snow hit the windshield and iced immediately on the passenger side. Fine on the drives side.

    Poor design, or should I be having the dealer take a look?

    5) Turbo / engine noise - when I accelerate steadily to 5500 rpm, I get a really loud rattle from the engine - is this wastegate noise? I seldom push the engine past 5k, (maybe twice since I've owned it). Doesn't inspire confidence for going higher - although if I toast anything its under warranty.

    Comment about driving the turbo at several thousand feet of elevation - no loss of power at all vs NA engine. I loved it.

    Thanks

    Larry
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    Did you check out the STi? I don't know if it is much of a looker but its way above the other cars you mentioned in terms of performance (its not even close) and it can hold 4 or 5 people. Its a Subie so maybe you could even get it at invoice???

    If you want more utility you can't beat the XT this side of a $90k Cayenne Turbo. It isn't a sportscar in the corners but people on other forums I'm not supposed to mention have had very good success with changing tires and adding aftermarket swaybars (cheap).

    If you want a blend of looks and performance the G35 coupe looks hard to beat but might be slightly outside your price comfort zone.
    The G35 sedan doesn't do much for me...its nice...but the Maxima looks as nice...totally personal opinion of course.

    OH YEAH. One other car that might be worth looking at is the Mazda RX8...it just beat the Z in the sportscar comparo here at Edmunds. It will seat 4 people (unlike the Z), looks very cool (again, my opinion) and will set you back maybe $26k.

    It all depends on what kind of car you are looking for. =)

    overtime
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